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Avatar universal

Educate me - opinions on Socialized Health Care...???

My oldest son works 35 hours a week; goes to college; and makes $7.50 per hour.  He is trying to save money to pay for books, gas to go to work, car insurance, etc., and told me the other day that his employer is going to let the part-time people get health insurance.  It will be $85 per week for single coverage.  That would leave him with about $100 and he doesn't think he can afford it.  I have explained the cost for actually getting sick....he just can't afford it.  (breaks my heart).

He is adamant (you guys think that I am a liberal - whoah boy!), that the healthcare system in the state that it is is groteseque and insist that socialized health care is the only humane method for everyone to be able to have insurance.  

Educate me....   I see where he's coming from, but I have heard horror stories about it and want to be able to help him understand and CONVINCE him that he can and should have insurance...(I offered to pay 1/2 and he refused on "priniciple"....

72 Responses
599170 tn?1300977493
just about your son,,sounds like you raised one heck of a great boy, maybe you can sneak and help him, fill his car up , maybe pay one of his bills when they come in, he will be a good man with the values he has. Dont have a good answer on the health care , I really see pros and cons to both,,one thing for sure your right a simple injury or illness can run into thousands of dollers,,,,one of my friends with no insurance got hit in the knee with a soft ball and it cost him several thousand, you just never know what could happen
611067 tn?1458595083
I see more cons than pros for socialized medicine.  But, I agree that if he has the option that somehow he should get the insurance.  My SIL just broke her ankle in 3 places and had a major surgery and stayed in the hospital a couple days.  I'm sure all her bills will probably come out to be around $20K and her insurance hadn't kicked in yet where we work.  
599170 tn?1300977493
prices are ridiculous,,my son had a simple "wedge" biopsy on leg had to be put out cost to insurance,,2k,, my hysterectomy was 35k but I had the DaVinci Robotic assisted,,husbands trip to er for kidney stones  $ 400. all they did was shot him up with pain meds...ridiculous. My father in laws quad by pass ten years ago 200k...I think socialised med would bring these examples of outlandish prices down for the gov,  Im just a bit worried about wait time,,,Im not a patient person if I need a surgery I want it soon,.etc...
Avatar universal
My daughter has insurance. Her 3 yr old had to have tubes put in his ears and she had to pay her part up front before the procedure. He had the procedure done and somehow there was an extra amount pop up that they say she owes. Now she cannot get a follow up on the surgery until she pays this 50-60 extra dollars. She has 2 other children that have had to c the doc and she cannot pay right now. So much for insurance!

FYI, What the prez is contemplating is not socialized health care. It is a single pay method. You choose your own docs etc. If you like what you have now, keep it, however he does want to do away with things like the pre-existing clause among duplicated tests, etc.

To the original poster. Even if your son does manage to pay for the premiums, check to see what the coverage would be. He could end up paying up to 50% in some cases or the deductable could be so high that he would never be able to afford the care on what he makes anyway, or could run into what my daughter has, paying up front for your part. Just a fyi.
Avatar universal
That's what he is running into - the insurance is pitiful.  He would end up paying almost $400 a month (which is a drop in the bucket if he actually had a major event), and it pays VERY little in terms of coverage.  

I have offered to pay 1/2 of the premium (I want him to pay 1/2 so he won't have sticker shock when he DOES start paying), and he refuses that.  I do help him with gas money for school, tuition, etc., but he is adamant that the health care system is corrupt, and won't be a part of it!  (young people)....

He and I both are Obama supporters and I think his plan is going to be good, if it ever passes.  Most likely the drug companies and doctor's groups won't allow it to happen.
Avatar universal
Just seems to me, we are not getting what we are paying for so it is not working. If ya pay in all those premiums and still cannot get healthcare then what good is it doing except feeding the insurance companies. I just do not see where the current system is working even for those who have it. If I dont pay for my car insurance or health premiums and put that into an account for health care, It would be just as effective in my lowly opinion. If I had all the money I have paid to these crooks, I would be sittin pretty right now.

cowgirlnerd, check availabilty for your son thru other healthcare agencies. He could choose to just get major medical and would probably be better off that way. Being a college student he ought to qualify for some kind of discount.
535822 tn?1443980380
The best truest way to find out about the health care system run by big government is to google it an put In UK ...the same that has happened there will happen here, they ration it, no mamograms till you are over 50 even if you have family who have it,  or go pay your self to get it done if you can, got 2ndstage breast cancer go pound sand or pay 20.000 Pounds abott $ 37.000 for treatment or fly somewhere else.... or die..Make an appt to see a Doctor ..depends where you live may get one 2 weeks later, waiting for tests my Bro waited 6 weeks or more to hear if he had prostate cancer, he doesnt ,If you have a good job like my daughter you take out private health care.. ever heard of it same as we have here. Oh yes plenty of government handouts for those who just want to hang around and get paid but they arent too much ...to live on as food and all goods cost a small fortune Gas 3 times what we pay, ....I could go on and on..google it for more .Its a really good thing and yes will will be getting it, sounds like a Fait accomplis...
Avatar universal
margy, So we will stay with what we have now and pay all those big bucks to the insurance companies that will not pay for the care and the doctors who will not see your child for followup cause you owe the 50.00 bucks the insurance did not pay! I would love to hear your suggestions to this big delimma we got here! Got any?
535822 tn?1443980380
Sorry if I sounded cynical but I escaped it, its hillarious that like so many legal immigrants we are going full circle.,whilst Europe is going the way of Capitalism..
535822 tn?1443980380
No teko I am not going to get into a battle over it with you it is a fait accomplis ..no point ...I had to get something in.. as it seemed to be all one sided as usual.There are other suggestions out there about health care here that dont involve big government  I am sure cow girl nerd can google it, Its a mute point it will happen... there is no voice to stop it...
Avatar universal
I am not going to battle with anyone, and politics aside, I am genuinely interested in knowing what you perceive the solution to be.  I know where you stand on the political arena, you make that clear in every post. I am truly curious as to your thoughts about what we need to do to make it possible for all to have affordable health care in this country. I am truly listening. And what are you talking about one sided? We are talking the pros and cons of the existing health care.
Avatar universal
Socialized health care is not going to go over here, this I will agree with. However, we do need an alternative to what we have now for those who cannot for whatever reason afford or get coverage due to high risk. What plans are composed remains to be seen but from what I understand a single payor method is being looked at. Keep what ya got now with the doc wanted or, for those like me who cannot get it due to high risk, the other plan will be made available. At least that is the talk thus far. I personnally hope they come up with something cause right now I cannot afford my inhaler that costs me 200.00 a month and no insurance company will touch me or my husband since his employer discontinued carrying the insurance, therefore no doc will see us either. I am really truly wanting options and if anyone has a solution, please tell me.
Avatar universal
Margy, I re read what I wrote and it sounded even to me, too harsh. I did not mean it to come across in such a way but the situation here at home is stressful to say the least regarding this subject. It is scarey to think that if something happened to me, I could not get help. I respect and enjoy reading your opinions and should not take it personally. Sorry to you and all who posted here. Im going to my corner now! :(
535822 tn?1443980380
Well it was my own fault as I knew it would come back at me..I really am my own worst enemy.I am not going to fight a lost battle anyway,you are more eloquant than I.
Avatar universal
Well, No You Are Not!!!!!  You are very intelligent, and loving, with your own opinions. this ones on me! And you could well be right, who knows! Time will tell. Going to get a drink now! (sigh)
535822 tn?1443980380
He he.... I wish I could be right but I doubt it, the way you guys are so pursuasive I could be bowing to the annointed one soon..,no no stop it marg, ...that'll get someone having a go at me...see what I mean.,no finesse .....
793305 tn?1493929118
I have heard people from Canada who say they love their nationalized insurance and I have heard that people in France like theirs.  But the people of the states has become so brainwashed to believe that we have the only good medical system in the world.  But it's up to us to pay for all research and developement, therefore we pay higher costs in prescriptions and folks in Canada and other parts of the world can get the same prescriptions for a lot less.  My parents could get their meds cheaper from Canada than they could in Iowa.  Mom was paying more than 600.00 a month.  From Canada just over 200.00...which would you want to pay?  So what happens?  The government says we can't get our drugs from over the border any more.  They can't guarantee the safety of the drugs...Does that mean we sell inferior drugs to other countries....there's a terrifying thought...What gives?  Well none of us believes that...but pharmeceuticals and other medical procedures are big bucks in the US.  and big business does not want it to go away.  And if you want to politicize it??? trust me congress folks on both sides of the aisle are getting a lot of money from pharmeceutical companies.  

Me?  surgeon fee 2400.00 plus.
one night over in the hospital...pretty much just watching me?  over $24,000.00.  I could've stayed in a motel and paid a nurse to watch me for a lot less.  LOL
793305 tn?1493929118
You might have your son look into an independent source.  My daughters boyfriend gets his thru something like farm bureau?  I think he pays less than 300.00 month (you don't have to be a farmer)  A company like that may be able to attach him to a group insurance.  There may be several out there, but that might be a good place to start a google...A cooperative of some kind....
Avatar universal

The World Health Organization rated France as having the best healthcare. Of course the healthcare in France is "socialized" medicine. Canada is the worst example for socialized medicine and that is why people often mention Canada.

Japan has an interesting healthcare system. Do a google search for more information.
518031 tn?1295578974
My 2 cents worth is only worth that..I have read, that say someone in my situation, needing a kidney transplant, that the wait is close to 10 years, well I have been on dialysis almost 6 years now. But I have read were it is very hard to get approved for something like dialysis, again don't knoiw if it is true just what I have read. If that is true then someone with kidney failure would have a good chance of dying if they can not get on dialysis.Also have read it is hard to get, bypass done, cancer treatments done. So I am not sure what the answere is, seems as if any program has it pros and cons. There are way to many adults and worst yet children that have no health care here in the US. The bad things is as much money that has been spent to save the banks and other private companies where will the gov't get the money to fund a national health care system????
Avatar universal
The following article mentions renal transplant and dialysis. It's at the end Jollyman.
I provided a link to the entire article and I think it is worth a read.
It's at Medscape which requires registration but it's free and easy to register and well worth the time.

From:  
Fact and Fiction: Debunking Myths in the US Healthcare System
    Umut Sarpel, MD; Bruce C. Vladeck, PhD; Celia M. Divino, MD; Paul E. Klotman, MD
    Authors and Disclosures
    Published: 06/06/2008

See:   http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/573877_1


Myth 1: The US Healthcare System Is the Best in the World

"This idea has been called the alpha myth because it is fundamentally the root of all other myths.[1] It is the straightforward belief that Americans have access to the highest quality healthcare available in the world. A different way to present this myth is to state that citizens in other countries experience long waits for healthcare, that they must rely on generalists, and that they suffer worse outcomes as a result......"

".......In the year 2000, the World Health Organization (WHO) dedicated its annual World Health Report to a comparison of healthcare across the globe.[4] In this exhaustive analysis, American superiority was not borne out: the United States ranked 32nd for infant survival, 24th for life expectancy, and 54th for fairness. The fairness ranking was derived from a comparison of the individual financial contribution required with the quality of healthcare received. The current US system is known as a regressive system; that is, the poor pay relatively more for healthcare. In fact, the poorest fifth of Americans spend 18% of their income on healthcare, whereas the richest fifth of Americans spend about 3%.[5] In this type of regressive system, it is clear why about 50% of personal bankruptcies in the United States are related to medical bills.[6] Tragically, 75% of individuals declaring medical bankruptcy had medical insurance at the onset of their illness.[6] Overall, the WHO ranked the United States 37th in the world....."

"Similar results were found by the Commonwealth Fund in a recently released scorecard on the performance of the US health system.[7] Outcomes in the United States were compared against those achieved by top countries or the top 10% of US states, hospitals, or other providers. The scorecard evaluated multiple indicators of health outcomes, including mortality, life expectancy, and the prevalence of health conditions that limit the capacity of adults to work or children to learn. The average ratio score for the United States was a 69 out of a possible 100.[7] The United States ranked 15th out of 19 countries with respect to preventable deaths before the age of 75, with a death rate more than 40% higher than the benchmark countries of France, Japan, and Spain. The United States ranked last in infant mortality out of 23 industrialized countries, with rates more than double the benchmark countries of Iceland, Japan, and Finland. The United States tied for last on healthy life expectancy at age 60."

"Despite these mediocre results in objective parameters of health outcomes, the United States spends far more than any other country for its healthcare. In 2000 the United States spent 13% of its gross domestic product on national health expenditures.[8] The next highest spending countries were Germany at 10.6% and France at 9.5%. In a graph of life expectancy versus health spending per capita, the United States falls far off the curve, both spending more and gaining less than other countries.[4] Another example of this contradiction is seen in the outcome of patients on hemodialysis. Although there are more hemodialysis centers per capita in the United States,[9] when end-stage renal disease patients were matched for severity of disease in Canada and the United States, patients in the United States were less likely to receive a kidney transplant and also had a higher mortality rate while on hemodialysis.[10]..."

179856 tn?1333550962
Thank you for posting that article, I think it cleared up some common misbeliefs very simply.

it is clear why about 50% of personal bankruptcies in the United States are related to medical bills.[6] Tragically, 75% of individuals declaring medical bankruptcy had medical insurance at the onset of their illness.

The fact that this can happen to anyone of us scares the beejesus out of me.
Avatar universal
Yes, it is frightening. My group plan increased 17% this renewal period and I know some who've seen a 25% increase this year.
Mike
Avatar universal
Perhaps you're the only person who read this. That's really not surprising.  
Educate me

Jollyman worte: "But I have read were it is very hard to get approved for something like dialysis, again don't knoiw if it is true just what I have read. If that is true then someone with kidney failure would have a good chance of dying if they can not get on dialysis."

The article said: "Although there are more hemodialysis centers per capita in the United States,[9] when end-stage renal disease patients were matched for severity of disease in Canada and the United States, patients in the United States were less likely to receive a kidney transplant and also had a higher mortality rate while on hemodialysis."

The source for their statement is:
Hornberger JC, Garber AM, Jeffery JR. Mortality, hospital admissions, and medical costs of end-stage renal disease in the United States and Manitoba, Canada. Med Care. 1997;35:686-700.

Education should take facts into consideration and not hunches and vague recollections and ideological knee jerk reactions. It helps to do a little research - at least once in a while.
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