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Educate me - opinions on Socialized Health Care...???
My oldest son works 35 hours a week; goes to college; and makes $7.50 per hour. He is trying to save money to pay for books, gas to go to work, car insurance, etc., and told me the other day that his employer is going to let the part-time people get health insurance. It will be $85 per week for single coverage. That would leave him with about $100 and he doesn't think he can afford it. I have explained the cost for actually getting sick....he just can't afford it. (breaks my heart).
He is adamant (you guys think that I am a liberal - whoah boy!), that the healthcare system in the state that it is is groteseque and insist that socialized health care is the only humane method for everyone to be able to have insurance.
Educate me.... I see where he's coming from, but I have heard horror stories about it and want to be able to help him understand and CONVINCE him that he can and should have insurance...(I offered to pay 1/2 and he refused on "priniciple"....
He is adamant (you guys think that I am a liberal - whoah boy!), that the healthcare system in the state that it is is groteseque and insist that socialized health care is the only humane method for everyone to be able to have insurance.
Educate me.... I see where he's coming from, but I have heard horror stories about it and want to be able to help him understand and CONVINCE him that he can and should have insurance...(I offered to pay 1/2 and he refused on "priniciple"....
The World Health Organization rated France as having the best healthcare. Of course the healthcare in France is "socialized" medicine. Canada is the worst example for socialized medicine and that is why people often mention Canada.
Japan has an interesting healthcare system. Do a google search for more information.
My 2 cents worth is only worth that..I have read, that say someone in my situation, needing a kidney transplant, that the wait is close to 10 years, well I have been on dialysis almost 6 years now. But I have read were it is very hard to get approved for something like dialysis, again don't knoiw if it is true just what I have read. If that is true then someone with kidney failure would have a good chance of dying if they can not get on dialysis.Also have read it is hard to get, bypass done, cancer treatments done. So I am not sure what the answere is, seems as if any program has it pros and cons. There are way to many adults and worst yet children that have no health care here in the US. The bad things is as much money that has been spent to save the banks and other private companies where will the gov't get the money to fund a national health care system????
The following article mentions renal transplant and dialysis. It's at the end Jollyman.
I provided a link to the entire article and I think it is worth a read.
It's at Medscape which requires registration but it's free and easy to register and well worth the time.
From:
Fact and Fiction: Debunking Myths in the US Healthcare System
Umut Sarpel, MD; Bruce C. Vladeck, PhD; Celia M. Divino, MD; Paul E. Klotman, MD
Authors and Disclosures
Published: 06/06/2008
See: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/573877_1
Myth 1: The US Healthcare System Is the Best in the World
"This idea has been called the alpha myth because it is fundamentally the root of all other myths.[1] It is the straightforward belief that Americans have access to the highest quality healthcare available in the world. A different way to present this myth is to state that citizens in other countries experience long waits for healthcare, that they must rely on generalists, and that they suffer worse outcomes as a result......"
".......In the year 2000, the World Health Organization (WHO) dedicated its annual World Health Report to a comparison of healthcare across the globe.[4] In this exhaustive analysis, American superiority was not borne out: the United States ranked 32nd for infant survival, 24th for life expectancy, and 54th for fairness. The fairness ranking was derived from a comparison of the individual financial contribution required with the quality of healthcare received. The current US system is known as a regressive system; that is, the poor pay relatively more for healthcare. In fact, the poorest fifth of Americans spend 18% of their income on healthcare, whereas the richest fifth of Americans spend about 3%.[5] In this type of regressive system, it is clear why about 50% of personal bankruptcies in the United States are related to medical bills.[6] Tragically, 75% of individuals declaring medical bankruptcy had medical insurance at the onset of their illness.[6] Overall, the WHO ranked the United States 37th in the world....."
"Similar results were found by the Commonwealth Fund in a recently released scorecard on the performance of the US health system.[7] Outcomes in the United States were compared against those achieved by top countries or the top 10% of US states, hospitals, or other providers. The scorecard evaluated multiple indicators of health outcomes, including mortality, life expectancy, and the prevalence of health conditions that limit the capacity of adults to work or children to learn. The average ratio score for the United States was a 69 out of a possible 100.[7] The United States ranked 15th out of 19 countries with respect to preventable deaths before the age of 75, with a death rate more than 40% higher than the benchmark countries of France, Japan, and Spain. The United States ranked last in infant mortality out of 23 industrialized countries, with rates more than double the benchmark countries of Iceland, Japan, and Finland. The United States tied for last on healthy life expectancy at age 60."
"Despite these mediocre results in objective parameters of health outcomes, the United States spends far more than any other country for its healthcare. In 2000 the United States spent 13% of its gross domestic product on national health expenditures.[8] The next highest spending countries were Germany at 10.6% and France at 9.5%. In a graph of life expectancy versus health spending per capita, the United States falls far off the curve, both spending more and gaining less than other countries.[4] Another example of this contradiction is seen in the outcome of patients on hemodialysis. Although there are more hemodialysis centers per capita in the United States,[9] when end-stage renal disease patients were matched for severity of disease in Canada and the United States, patients in the United States were less likely to receive a kidney transplant and also had a higher mortality rate while on hemodialysis.[10]..."
I provided a link to the entire article and I think it is worth a read.
It's at Medscape which requires registration but it's free and easy to register and well worth the time.
From:
Fact and Fiction: Debunking Myths in the US Healthcare System
Umut Sarpel, MD; Bruce C. Vladeck, PhD; Celia M. Divino, MD; Paul E. Klotman, MD
Authors and Disclosures
Published: 06/06/2008
See: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/573877_1
Myth 1: The US Healthcare System Is the Best in the World
"This idea has been called the alpha myth because it is fundamentally the root of all other myths.[1] It is the straightforward belief that Americans have access to the highest quality healthcare available in the world. A different way to present this myth is to state that citizens in other countries experience long waits for healthcare, that they must rely on generalists, and that they suffer worse outcomes as a result......"
".......In the year 2000, the World Health Organization (WHO) dedicated its annual World Health Report to a comparison of healthcare across the globe.[4] In this exhaustive analysis, American superiority was not borne out: the United States ranked 32nd for infant survival, 24th for life expectancy, and 54th for fairness. The fairness ranking was derived from a comparison of the individual financial contribution required with the quality of healthcare received. The current US system is known as a regressive system; that is, the poor pay relatively more for healthcare. In fact, the poorest fifth of Americans spend 18% of their income on healthcare, whereas the richest fifth of Americans spend about 3%.[5] In this type of regressive system, it is clear why about 50% of personal bankruptcies in the United States are related to medical bills.[6] Tragically, 75% of individuals declaring medical bankruptcy had medical insurance at the onset of their illness.[6] Overall, the WHO ranked the United States 37th in the world....."
"Similar results were found by the Commonwealth Fund in a recently released scorecard on the performance of the US health system.[7] Outcomes in the United States were compared against those achieved by top countries or the top 10% of US states, hospitals, or other providers. The scorecard evaluated multiple indicators of health outcomes, including mortality, life expectancy, and the prevalence of health conditions that limit the capacity of adults to work or children to learn. The average ratio score for the United States was a 69 out of a possible 100.[7] The United States ranked 15th out of 19 countries with respect to preventable deaths before the age of 75, with a death rate more than 40% higher than the benchmark countries of France, Japan, and Spain. The United States ranked last in infant mortality out of 23 industrialized countries, with rates more than double the benchmark countries of Iceland, Japan, and Finland. The United States tied for last on healthy life expectancy at age 60."
"Despite these mediocre results in objective parameters of health outcomes, the United States spends far more than any other country for its healthcare. In 2000 the United States spent 13% of its gross domestic product on national health expenditures.[8] The next highest spending countries were Germany at 10.6% and France at 9.5%. In a graph of life expectancy versus health spending per capita, the United States falls far off the curve, both spending more and gaining less than other countries.[4] Another example of this contradiction is seen in the outcome of patients on hemodialysis. Although there are more hemodialysis centers per capita in the United States,[9] when end-stage renal disease patients were matched for severity of disease in Canada and the United States, patients in the United States were less likely to receive a kidney transplant and also had a higher mortality rate while on hemodialysis.[10]..."
Thank you for posting that article, I think it cleared up some common misbeliefs very simply.
it is clear why about 50% of personal bankruptcies in the United States are related to medical bills.[6] Tragically, 75% of individuals declaring medical bankruptcy had medical insurance at the onset of their illness.
The fact that this can happen to anyone of us scares the beejesus out of me.
it is clear why about 50% of personal bankruptcies in the United States are related to medical bills.[6] Tragically, 75% of individuals declaring medical bankruptcy had medical insurance at the onset of their illness.
The fact that this can happen to anyone of us scares the beejesus out of me.
Yes, it is frightening. My group plan increased 17% this renewal period and I know some who've seen a 25% increase this year.
Mike
Mike
Perhaps you're the only person who read this. That's really not surprising.
Educate me
Jollyman worte: "But I have read were it is very hard to get approved for something like dialysis, again don't knoiw if it is true just what I have read. If that is true then someone with kidney failure would have a good chance of dying if they can not get on dialysis."
The article said: "Although there are more hemodialysis centers per capita in the United States,[9] when end-stage renal disease patients were matched for severity of disease in Canada and the United States, patients in the United States were less likely to receive a kidney transplant and also had a higher mortality rate while on hemodialysis."
The source for their statement is:
Hornberger JC, Garber AM, Jeffery JR. Mortality, hospital admissions, and medical costs of end-stage renal disease in the United States and Manitoba, Canada. Med Care. 1997;35:686-700.
Education should take facts into consideration and not hunches and vague recollections and ideological knee jerk reactions. It helps to do a little research - at least once in a while.
Educate me
Jollyman worte: "But I have read were it is very hard to get approved for something like dialysis, again don't knoiw if it is true just what I have read. If that is true then someone with kidney failure would have a good chance of dying if they can not get on dialysis."
The article said: "Although there are more hemodialysis centers per capita in the United States,[9] when end-stage renal disease patients were matched for severity of disease in Canada and the United States, patients in the United States were less likely to receive a kidney transplant and also had a higher mortality rate while on hemodialysis."
The source for their statement is:
Hornberger JC, Garber AM, Jeffery JR. Mortality, hospital admissions, and medical costs of end-stage renal disease in the United States and Manitoba, Canada. Med Care. 1997;35:686-700.
Education should take facts into consideration and not hunches and vague recollections and ideological knee jerk reactions. It helps to do a little research - at least once in a while.
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