Painkiller Ban

[April2]

A Food and Drug Administration panel voted this week to pull from the market drugs that contain a combination of narcotics and acetaminophen, including Vicodin and Percocet. The concern is it can cause liver damage when taken in too high of a dose. The worry is obviously those who abuse these drugs and take them in too high of dosages. Doctors say the drugs are safe when taken correctly.

So, in other words. they are willing to pull drugs that are very effective for pain treatment because of a fear of abuse from some people. The only problem is, they will then have to come up with another type of painkiller that could be a weaker narcotic, causing unnecessary pain and discomfort, or a stronger one which could increase the risk of addiction.
So, let me get this straight. They want to pull very affective painkillers (which can only be prescribed by doctors) because they're afraid people will abuse them and may wind up replacing them with painkillers that can become addictive. Huh?

This is what frightens me, people. We keep dumbing down our society and treating people as if they can't be trusted just because a few can't. Most of us would take the medication properly but because a few people abuse it, the rest of us would have to suffer.
What would be next? Shall we pull Twinkies off the shelves because some people may eat too much thus causing diabetes, obestity, etc.? How about alcohol? After all, even though most of us know how to drink sensibly and not abuse alcohol or get behind the wheel of a car after drinking and killing someone else, there would be some who would abuse it, so therefore I think we should pull all alcohol.

Where does it stop? Why should the ones who are doing the right thing suffer because there's some who can't seem to do that?

I have taken both of these drugs after surgeries and didn't abuse them. I took them for a week or so until my pain was manageable and that was it. The doctor only prescribed a certain amount, too, usually just a couple of weeks worth. Why can't they just do that? Why not have the doctors limit the amount they gave out?
It is a very affective drug for easing pain. What worries me is if people will have to suffer more now with pain because they're afraid a few may abuse it.

The FDA hasn't made an official decision yet so doctors are still prescribing the drugs. I was given a prescription to fill for my daughter since she will be getting her wisdom teeth pulled at the end of this month. I guess I'd better go ahead and fill it to make sure she'll be able to have it.

This really, really concerns me, folks. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

[bobo3357]

Hi I use to go to the dentist and was told I didn't have a tooth problem and took Pandol and thank fully I found a new dentist and I have had my teeth fixed up but then I am on Efexor xr. for years and have liver test and found I have a problem I went to the doctor to change my anti dresspion tablets but he wouldn't say anything about Efexor causing problem. I must say it you post a comment you may find people my not like what you say, We are really doing this to help each other as we know the FDA and our TGA don't protect us and I know that the FDA stops using mediciation over in the US and we end up with the felt overs, so many doctor are getting kick backs from the drug companies Take Care to all

[Cherie762]

the USA has not banned a thing..I was given vicodin at every turn, Including in the hospital, they alternated dilaudid, toradol and vicodin HP, that is a very very strong cocktail no wonder I was high as a kite....guess what I was sent home w for pain relief,,,yup Vicodin Es....I do not believe there will be any ban....this is I pray my last bottle my pains all surgical now not from the disc problems of before,,,,this is however how addicts become addicts,,,many seek help and just get handed a script instead

[redheadaussie]

Well, I wondered how long it would take for Australia to latch onto the US FDA ban.... here is a link for you to peruse.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/health/846563/codeine-painkillers-face-crackdown

[peaceinknowing]

Thanks so much for the kind words. I have SO much support from a lot of the members here and I have to admit, that this website has definately been my lifeline over the past few weeks now that I've signed up for my account. You hit the nail right on the head when you stated that even though it is our personal choice to take the pills daily, when you're in that much pain you just want to get rid of the pain all together. When you're my age and can hardly even walk [I'm 28 years old] you know there is a problem!  <3

[teko]

Peggy I mentioned your idea of a chiropractor and he said he was afraid of them. Imagine that!

April, We all know how addictive morphine is and to mix it with lortab to me is insane!

Personally, I do agree that it is an individual choice to take them but when you are in that much pain, at that point in time you just want rid of the pain.

peaceinknowing, Kudos girlfriend, hang in and hang tough! We are pulling for you!

[peaceinknowing]

You are such an insightful woman, and I appreciated the information you posted above when I first read it. You're exactly right when you say that everyone needs to be informed on all sides of the issue at hand. You are an incredibly strong woman for putting your post out there above like you did. Many hugs are coming your way, and thanks again for all the information you've given to all the members here on the forum.

[margypops]

So we ask the question will it be better and will they treat us differantly under the healthcare Plan that the administration wants to push through as fast as it can, will these Doctors become more caring under the scrutiny of the Government who will be paying them wages.;......

[April2]

peaceinknowing, I know I certainly took no offense to your posts! I think it's important to hear all sides. How else will we learn and grow? I feel like I've learned so much on here from all you ladies! You are incredibly strong, brave women and I admire your courage!

I agree that doctors need to be held accountable more. They should know better. Look at what happened with Michael Jackson. I think his doctor should be held accountable for his death. We place our trust in doctors. They need to responsible to their patients.

[peaceinknowing]

Thanks for the kind words you've put here on this post, the both of you. I don't want to sit here and blame my PCP for what happened to ME, but I do want to shed some light on the issue at hand. I think a lot of non addicts aren't educated enough on this topic as well, and that's why I posted what I did.

Once again I am hoping that no one took offense to any of my posts, I just felt the need to have my voice heard as well as the other side of the story. We all have to keep in mind, that there are always three sides to the truth -- my side, your side and the truth. It goes both ways, and we are all here on the forums to help each other regardless of the walk of life we've come from.

I hope that this message finds everybody well here today, and I will be posting more as soon as I get off from work in a few hours.

[MJIthewriter]

Good post. You just reminded me of my experience with Efexor xr. I didn't take it long enough to deal with the horrible wd's from it, but that doctor/system did not seem too far from your doctor, at least that was my experience with it.

First off he thought it would help my depression because it helped my dad. My dad believed (and maybe still does) that it helped save his life because he had it really bad.  But thing is, I'm not my dad. The psycho didn't seem to think much about autism and that possibly having an effect with the med.

Well after taking it at a low dose, I didn't see much benefit from it. He filled out a prescription doubling the dose or more?  That was possibly the worst two nights I've had in my life. I could not hold a thought without feeling like a rushing sensation. I couldn't connect my thoughts well and could not sleep at all. I couldn't even doze off.  I immediately told him about it and went back down. Eventually I self tapered off it because all it seemed to do was make my headaches worse and my POTS (feeling lightheaded when getting up and moving around.)

I don't know if my current psychiatrist is much better. It seems in general dr's solution to problems of any sort is to prescribe a pill of some sort.... If you have depression, anxiety, etc...they seem to think that you can try different meds or combos to get a right "fit". In one of my older journals I compared the experience with going shopping at a department store, sort of like Walmart... Drs seem to think people can keep trying on combos until one works, but are they really sure of the effects?  

That said I've had some reactions with various meds that make me in general distrusting.. I am on an antidepressant currently, though I hope that it won't be forever.

[dominosarah]

I for one am very proud of what you have accomplished and i agree with what you have written......doctors do need to be better educated and informed in all areas.  We as recovering addicts have taken personal responsibility in our addictions.  Too bad the rest of the world still stereotypes us.........sara

[peaceinknowing]

I don't believe I ever pointed my finger in blame at my PCP for me placing these pills in my mouth. I'm not here to point fingers and/or blame anyone for what I chose to do; But I do blame doctors all around this country for not being as informative, educated and concerned as they should be. When doctors first graduate from medical school, they take the hypocratical oath. This oath states that they will first do no harm and be informative to the best of their knowledge when it comes to the benefit of their patient alongside their health.

[April2]

Wow, Teko, I'm surprised! I didn't think they'd give Morphine for that long like that! When I was in the hospital for my last surgery I was there for about 5 days and had a Morphine drip that I could control. However, after about 3 days they wanted me to cut back on it because they said it was too powerful and I could get addicted. So the last two days I didn't have the Morphine at all. They discontinued it and gave me something not quite as strong (I can't remember what it was) but it worked fine. I didn't even think Morphine was given outside of a hospital stay as I've only had it my last two surgeries.

[peggy64]

That is the problem! drs who tell people such mess, just because they don't want to deal with the problem. That gets me off on another tangent...drs aren't in the healing business anymore, they are on the Rx writing business.

Is there any way your son can see a chiropracter? they might be able to help.

That morphine is nothing play with. But he needs to do something because of the pain. But, he needs to realize if he gets addicted to the morphine and lortabs, he will have 2 problems not just one.  

I sure hate you are having to watch your son go through this. It is awful to see our kids in pain.

[teko]

People would be amazed at how little the doctors really know about side effects and addiction capabilities of the drugs they dispense. My son has a herniated disk in his neck and a pinched nerve in his arm. So he goes to the doctor and the doctor prescibes lortab. It did good for a couple of hours and then the pain came back. He was eating those things like crazy! So he goes back and tels the doc that the meds are not working very long and the doc adds Morphine to the mix. Told him to take them and pt for a month and then come back. Now does anyone else see a problem with that? In a months time he will be addicted! So after a month if no improvement, which we all know there will not be any, he will go back and they will schedule surgery. Then more drugs. I am scared for him and he is in so much pain that he will take those pills no matter what just to get relief. And a month from now he will be addicted. I just dont know what the answer is.

[margypops]

Well done peaceinknowing you have cracked it and your thread was informative and true,I can hear the determination there to stay drug free,  it isnt only pain pills it is all the anti depressants and GAD meds that they acknowledge are addictive like Xanax  ...I also agree with you Peggy64 it is our own responsibility what we decide to put into our mouths ,but sometimes when you are in pain or depressed you do follow that "trusted' Doctors who dish it out like candy ,supplied by the drug companies in samples fopr us all.

[peggy64]

Bottom line is we are wanting the government to control whether people get addicted or not. I am to watch myself if I am on pain pills, and monitor that. It is not the governments job. To me that is just another passing the buck on responsibility. i want to be responsible for me.

Why not do like April suggest, blame the government because people eat to much, and the smoking? that causes more damage overall than trouble with vicoden or percocet. Next we will want to blame the government because they didn't stop people from smoking which we KNOW leads to emphysema, COPD, lung cancer, among other health related issues.  Not to mention the damage the smoke does to the environment, and the odor....so lets blame the government because they won't stop people from smoking.

the people that smoke can sue the government when they get cancer because it says cigarettes causes cancer, yet the government still lets them sell and buy, so the government is not to be trusted either.

I do not trust drs, and before I take anything they give me, I do a study on it. They don't have my best interest in mind. They just want to write a rx.

People know that drugs like that are addictive. there is not a person in the US, that started taking those that did not know they were addictive. Lets get back to personal responsibility.

[peaceinknowing]

I just read the above mentioned post, and I must agree with Lesa on this one. I'm an addict, but I stand [or sit and type] before you with the ability to tell you that I'm 19 days sober from Percocet. Although a lot of people have opinions on "people like me" I can honestly say to you that the real problem doesn;t necessarily always lie within the person who is abusing the drugs; But within the doctors who prescribe a 26 year old female 100 pills every two weeks and tells them to take it whether they're in pain at that time or not, because if she doesn't, there will be more injuries to both her knee as well as her back.

To most normal people out there, doctors are people for whom we place immense amounts of trust in when we go to them about something that exceeds everything and that is our health. To some people, doctors are almost like God. You don't question their knowledge and you do as you're told, period. These are the men and women of healthcare that have paid close to a million dollars to complete courses at a high end university to become the ones who are either educated when it comes to what they are writing scripts out for or not. In my case, my doctor was far from what you and I would sit down and have a conversation about educated.

When I told my doctor that I was freightened to take as many pills as he had written me for, he told me not to worry. He had MANY patients on a much more higher dose and took it more frequently as well. This gave me what I thought would be reassurance and an answer from someone who was.... Educated.

Three weeks ago, I called my doctor and stated to him that I felt as though I was becoming addicted and dependant on the pills, and I wanted to get off of them now. What did he do you ask? Oh, it was simple... He told me I was a drug addict, hung up the phone and lead me to call the Joint Comission on him. To make a long story short, I've been informed that they are now looking into reducing his patient number to 50% of what he has been accessing as of late. Not only that, but there has been mentionings to me that there will be a letter sent out to every one of his patients, informing them of what has happened. When I asked what they are going to do in regard to educating these doctors about the pain pills they are freely writing to their patients, they responded to me that more than likely, he will be prompted to take a two year course in dealing with addiction, dependancy and courses that teach doctors what it is to write out a script, and what they need to know about the pills.

Not every pain pill "addict" is the reason for the above mentioned post, so I suggest each and every one of you keep this in mind. Am I mad at you for posting this thread? Absolutely not. You know why? Because my life is so GREAT right now because I'm almost 20 days sober from the pills my doctor basically shoved down my throat after I went to him NUMEROUS times, telling him that I didn't feel like this was right. However, I do suggest that a little more efforts should be put forth when trying to educate other people on something such as this. It's best we all know what we are talking about before we well.... Talk about it, right?

[Cherie762]

Interesting Ive been taking vicodin es for nerly a month 4 x per day, my neck is much worse last week at dr I expressed that asked if I could reduce number of pills and get something different, thinking maybe percocet or oxycotin would work better for the one week pre op, post op is suposed to be great a dilaudid pump for 2 days then just darvocet or tylenol3,,,anyways he refuse oxy or percs,,and insisted on giving me vicodin HP which I had never taken before , Made zero sense to me, Im pretty sure percocet is less strong than Viconin HP

[catmagnet]

You're right about norco. Is is identical to vicodin or lortabs except for the hydrocodone/acetaminophen ratio. I don't think it's a good idea to just yank them off the market. Like said in some above replies, OTC meds can be just as dangerous or even more so because people don't read the labels. People who are in true pain are going to relieve it one way or another. I believe alcohol and cigarettes are every bit as harmful. Sorry if I offend any smokers or drinkers. My husband smokes and drinks and I love him, but it isn't good for him=/

[Cherie762]

there is a medication called Norco, may have spelled it wrong , Its not as well know or popular as vicodin , but its key ingrediant is whatever the active componet of vicodin is , the tylenol or acetomophine is drastically reduced. There are far too many people in this world that have true needs for pain meds, be it dental or other needs, for them to be completley eliminated from pharmacy.

[Cherie762]

Ok I asked my dr this today as I am currently taking vicodin untill my surgery and then whatever after, I said do you believe what the news is saying about banning Vicodin? His response" NO, they tried to ban Darvocet years ago, never happened." He said there will be a crack down on people taking it who really dont need it as there should be. Also vicodin may have a reduction in the amount of acetomophine in it. Just my physicans opinion, But an interesting perspective.

[mikesimon]

I think the FDA was concerned that many people don't realize that acetaminophen is contained in Vicodin and Percocet. So they might take one of those drugs thinking it was purely narcotic and then supplement with Tylenol. The labeling is not that clear.
And people in general don't realize the risk of liver injury that can, and does, result from Tylenol. Different people have different sensitivities to the drug. After my liver transplant (due to Hep C) my team told me I was to take only Tylenol for pain at a maximum dose of 1 gram per day. I bought the lesser strength tablets - 325 mg I think. I still take Tylenol if needed, which is very rare.
Oxycodone, Oxycontin and opiate derived drugs will continue to be available for pain relief.
If this is Big Brother then I welcome it. This is an area where the government should be involved. Cigarettes were mentioned and they too will be controlled by the FDA.
In response to April's concern about a doctor not knowing her pain level: I tell everyone the same thing - that no one knows if their doctor is good until they get real sick. I know that I didn't. I had an idiot for a doctor but since I rarely saw him and never presented with a real serious problem I had no idea how incompetent he was. The point is that I believe that all of us have to be very careful when choosing a PCP. My current doctor was recommended to me by a very knowledgeable friend. When I called for an appointment and was asked for my insurance information I said that I was paying cash. I didn't know the guy and I wasn't about to switch everything over to him. Anyway, basically we interviewed each other. I knew I was a complicated patient so I wanted a really smart doctor who wouldn't be intimidated by my transplant etc. We agreed we were a good match. I mention all this because I cannot imagine being in a situation where I wouldn't get the pain meds I needed from my PCP. I had a bad bike wreck in 2005 and he prescribed Oxycontin and Oxycodone daily over a period of 4 months. toward the end I asked him how I was going to get off these drugs. He said it's easy - just start cutting back next week and I did and was off everything within 1 week - no problem at all. All this is about making sure you've got the right doctor. If you do you shouldn't need to worry about pain meds at all. The problem really is that, unless you have a serious problem, it is very hard to know just how good your doctor is if you don't put some time and effort into choosing your  PCP.
Mike

[April2]

That's true but I think only the individual knows really how much pain their in. Everyone reacts differently to pain and has different pain tolerances. I liked the fact that I could control the morphine drip when I was in the hospital recovering from major surgery. But you know what? I only did it when I really started feeling the pain come on. My mom would visit and see me in discomfort and ask me if I pushed the button and I'd say no because I tried to not overuse it, you know? I never did like taking medicine. Besides, morphine works for heavy duty pain but can make you sick to your stomach too.
Still, I think we should as a patient have a say in when we need pain management. No doctor is going to really be able to tell what kind of pain you're feeling.