do i have more than depression and bipolar disorder?

[theshycrier]

well im 14 and female and alot of **** goes on in my life. im pretty sure i am bipolar, my manic episodes few and far between. when im manic, its only for a few minutes, then im mad at  myself for being so happy and stupid and smiling like an idiot. most of the time im depressed, sometimes just feeling kind of sad, but most of the time im straight out depressed. i cut myself and write poetry and all that. sometimes, i hear people saying my name but then i'll turn around and there will b no one there, who knows me that is. but like in the library  i'll hear my name being called. no loud, but load enough i can hear it. and there will be no one there i know. also, i wonder if i may have split personalities. sometimes i'll be doing something, then all of a sudden im somewhere else doing something i wasn't doing before, and it'll be a hour or so after. sometimes i do forget stuff like that but sometimes i wonder. i am also slightly ocd. if things are not in order it really bugs me. in stores if something is not in order i may rearange it. i just really don't know if i have more than i realise. *i have not seen any doctors about anything. everything i know about bipolar disorder and depression and all this is out of books and the internet. please answer if u think i may have soemthing i don't know about.

[Jaquta]

From what you've written I'm not sure about bipolar.

I'm just a layperson and not very good with diagnoses but some I would consider are:
depression with psychotic features.  I doubt that you have that though.
I'm leaning towards borderline personality disorder.  You're possibly too young to be diagnosed with it but some of your symptoms fit.  The mania you describe, I think, is something someone with bpd would experience.  If you were manic I'm not sure that you would feel angry with yourself afterwards, not immediately anyway.  Because the episodes are short makes me think that it's not true mania either.  Depression and anxiety/ ocd fit.  Cutting or self-harm also fit.  Hearing voices fits.  When severely stressed people with bpd can experience transient psychotic-like symptoms.  Split or multiple personalities could also be symptoms, I'm not sure.  I think they're classed as dissociative disorders.  I'm not sure if that would be a separate diagnosis or be part of the bpd.  Or maybe I have it wrong and your symptoms all fit with dissociative disorders.
The mania stuff makes me fit borderline personality disorder.

I would possibly look at ptsd too.  Or ?complex-ptsd.

I would honestly advise you to speak to your family doctor who could refer you to an age-appropriate psychiatrist who could assess you.  Treating these issues early when you're young is much easier and less distressing in the long-term than putting off getting help.

Good luck.

[Jaquta]

Sorry. It was a bit lame that I didn't re-write my entire post.  I have moments where I feel absolutely fed up with the computer.  I don't know if many others would accept their computer clicking off every two seconds and taking forever to get anything done.  We have limited internet options here and it gets a bit frustrating sometimes.  I know I should be more courteous though.  What I write can end up quite confusing for others and myself.

I think that killing yourself or even hurting yourself should not be considered as viable options.

One piece of advice I would give you is to not run.  I have run from help so many times but I think that ultimately if we stay and work our way through it we can access pretty decent support.  So many times in my life it was just there and I ran due to fear.  Ultimately it has cost me a lot.  Especially in terms of healthy years of my life.

You may end up liking yourself more too.  Do parents really get any worse?  With mine there seemed to be a limit.  When I was really unwell I just ended up screaming abuse at them all the time because they despite wanting to help they were just making things worse.  I think that part of the problem was that my parents wanted to sweep everything under the mat.  It's hard when everything you say and do gets swept under that mat and equally hard when everything my brothers and sisters did got displayed proudly on the mantlepiece for all to see.  We don't have a mantle but you know what  mean.

How is a person to learn acceptance when people keep showing them and telling them that they're not OK?

What if you don't hate her after therapy?  What if it made you and your family stronger?

Sorry.  I explained that in detail before.  The counsellor.  I had this really good rapport with this phone counsellor from LifeLink YouthLine.  However one day I went and saw him in person and he was totally different to how I expected or imagined him to be.  Talking on the phone without the visual image was probably heaps easier for me (at least till I became more confident).
In therapy a good therapist will be able to make you feel comfortable.
I have pretty severe trust issues and it took me over three years of weekly appointments with my doctor to be able to call him by his first name.  The important thing is not about how long it takes but to go in the first place.

I think that you should talk to the counsellor.  I think that it is the most promising suggestion you put forward.  I think that talking to someone who listens and treats you with respect is extremely helpful.

Just thinking but would another option be to go through the school nurse?

[theshycrier]

well, other options include killing myself (wouldn't work becos i would probably fail and end up still a live), telling someone about it and getting counseling ( in the end i woud still hate her and i bet she would b even worse) and running away, which i know would fail.


who am i judging or should not judge?

[Jaquta]

I responded to this post the other day but I think that because our computer is extremely slow that I clicked out of it before it had finished submitting.

Just briefly, what are those other options, if tolerating these issues were not an option?

I just warned you about listening to music too loudly too.  Going deaf before 20 probably wouldn't be a very cool thing.

I also mentioned that like a book you can't judge a person by their exterior or cover.

[theshycrier]

its not that i want intervention, its that i guess im just waiting to see if it comes. i even made a game out of it: giving out hints and not wearing sweaters to show off my arms and posting depressing dumb sh*t on facebook. i just like to see how far i can go until someone notices. i know that i probably need intervention but i don't want to find it, i want it to find me. i don't want to be put into foster care, i would just keep running away if that happened, just to rebel. i would hate it.

wel i forget if i told u this already, cos maybe it was a differnt conversation, but in grade 7 one of my friends told me that she wanted to talk to the counselor because the grade 8 counselor seemed really nice, but she said she didn't want to go alone and asked me to come with her, that i probably should. i told her i'd think about it, and i might have but when we got into grade 8 that counselor was gone and they replaced her with some old creeper chick. so we didn't go. so i'v thought about it but i don't think kay (my angry friend) would want to. she doesn't think theres anything wrong, she knows there IS but she doesn't think it needs counseling.

if my friend had my issues i think i would tell them ... well i don't know. if i was the average adult, thinking that everything is easy as pie, i would say "oh, just talk to your mother about it and everything will turn out okay!" but i know that my mom won't take blame for anything and that shes impossible to talk to. she can't talk, she will yell and then in a minute or two shes will get angry and leave. i guess i would say just try to live with it, there are other options but they won't work so just try and live. thats what i do.

currently, my dad went out to a friends cabin for the weekend and last night my mom's blood sugar got low and my dad was here to deal with it. tonight she seemed alright when she went to bed but i keep checking, just to make sure shes not convulsing or anything. i really don't wanna deal with it but it probably won't since it happened just last night but i wouldn't  put it past her.  i stay awake all night because its free time and all that and i'm liistening to music while doing all this, on my ear buds, and everytime i hear a sound from upstairs i keep turning off the music and listening and it drives me insane-doesn't take much :P music is totally what i use to drown out life. up so loud i can't hear anyone screaming at me. its awesome

[Jaquta]

Or don't get where you're coming from.  I find that hurts your self-esteem more than anything.  It can take ages to work through those issues.

You're right, he absolutely shouldn't take his feelings out on his children.  Maybe he needs more support for his own health issues?  She sounds a little bit stable, he not so much.

Why would having support and intervention be harder?  It would be different and it might take you out of your comfort zone for a little bit but long-term it would help you more, don't you think?

It sounds as though you want somebody to intervene.  What do you think anyway?  You think that your mum should take better care of herself and of you.  What do you want and do you think that is reasonable?  Do you want to be put in foster care?  that doesn't sound very ideal either.

Would you guys consider seeing the counselor togather?  It sounds like you're all pretty close.  Share your thoughts and feelings, etc with each other.

I'm worried about you and the situation you find yourself it.  It also concerns me that your friends are experiencing difficulties too.

I don't have training in, well much actually, but I think you need to talk to someone who has experience in dealing with these sorts of situations.  Someone who knows what can and can't be offered.  Someone who is better able to provide support.  I don't want to make things worse for you by talking about things I don't know very much about.  I feel a little lost about how I can help.  I just get the feeling that anything I say isn't going to help you out of the situation you're in and more than anything i sense that is what you want help with.

If you were advising a friend with similar issues to your own, what would you advise them?

[theshycrier]

i wouldn't say i love my mother but i guess i care for her in a sort of way you would care for someone you know, but are not close to. i don't really want to talk with my father. he knows i don't  favor her but he doesn't  get why. he doesn't get why im upset with her and why i wouldn't like her. he just kinda waves me off. they just don't really seem to care.


she is enduring alot and she says she does live healthy enough. when we talk about this kinda stuff, when we unload to each other, she i don't think she blames him enough. i get that he is unwell, with his MS and everything but even with that, he shouldn't take everything out on his children!   she just says that he can't control what he takes his anger out on when he relapses, and i get that, but he never says sorry to them or anything, he just keeps going on with life. and he will get soooo mad at them or the tiniest things and totally flip out. i don't think he needs more help then she does. his MS is a major but shes also getting worse, as are all of my friends. me and her are always talking and stuff, but it doesn't seem to be enough.  we don't want to see counselors because it would be harder than this already is. plus, a counselor would just annoy me! always putting it back to me to see what i think instead of the other way around.  and she does listen to music alot but i think the best thing is when we all hang out, thats what makes me feel great.

[Jaquta]

A lot of people, despite not relating well to their parent/s, do like them on some level.  I'm not telling you what you do and don't feel, you are the best judge of that.  I guess part of what I mean is that sometimes when people feel hurt or are hurting they can overlook the good aspects.

It sounds as though there are a lot of issues and strong emotions towards your mother.

Could you discuss this with your father?  It's sad that we don't experience relationships as others do.  You know, sit down, talk, feel heard, etc.

It would be a chance that you would have to take.  Maybe some of those cases were just due to the phase those other people were going through (and completely different to what you're experiencing).  People should always be listened too and be treated with respect.

It sounds like she could be screaming because she is already enduring a lot.  I think that taking care of the basics always helps.  Eat healthily, get enough sleep, exercise, etc.  Sometimes if you put the other person behaviour in context, say of him being unwell, then sometimes that can help you be more tolerant.
I think that stress management and relaxtion exercises would be important for her.
Meditation can sometimes help.  Sometimes just focusing on each moment can also help (without judging stuff, etc).
It sounds like her father needs more help than she does, or has more issues than she does, if that makes sense.
I expect good support from friends, etc would also be quite important for her.  Maybe she should see the school counsellor too?  That's not a brush off but an avenue to access good advice and support.  You may need to ask about confidentiality though due to your age (and assuming your friend is around your age too).
Your friend sounds like she could do with a form of release too.  Something that she enjoys that makes her feel less stressed.  For me that's exercise.  For others it's music or dance or socialising, etc.

[theshycrier]

okay. im not really sure about me caring her very deeply but whatevere you say. my parents are still together but im not sure about their relationship. i remember wishing they would divorce so i could live with just my dad.

its not that im too uncomfortable to speak about it to her, although that is the case, but its more like i've never had the chance.  i can't remember one heart to heart seriouse conversation between us.

about talking to a counselor,  im afraid they may just wave me off as a teen depression case; just a phase that will pass. i have heard stories of that happening to other kids.



switch topic, one of my friends has a bad life with her parents divorced and her mom doesn't really talk to them anymore and her dad has ms and hes always screaming at her and she has some anger issues and she was wondering if they are any ways to help that, ways to make it so she can take more and not explode as often as she does. any suggestions?

[Jaquta]

Definitely not weird.  I think that we all at some point crave acceptance from our parents.  I think that under the dislike and hatred you actually care for her very deeply.  I think that confuses the picture even more because you feel for this person yet they treat you badly which makes you feel a particular way.  Full of self-doubts, etc and feeling trapped.

I guess you can't just say she has neglected you either as you have felt too uncomfortable to discuss things with her.  A school counselor could be a good person to discuss this with.  If you have undiagnosed and untreated mood and self-harming issues these are a problem.  I would make an appointment to see the school counselor and discuss with them how you really feel.  Tell them what you tell us.  Tell them about growing up with a diabetic parent who refuses to take responsibility for their health.  It sounds as though she could have managed her condition better than she has.  You don't mention a father so perhaps her issues relate back to her relationship with him??

Everybody wants and needs to feel love.  It can be difficult for us when we are rejected by those who are suppose to care for us the most and unconditionally.

I'm not sure about the expert forums but you might find a good one there to post too about accessing help.  A parenting one, or a child behaviours one.  Maybe the Ask a Nurse expert forum may be able to provide some input as where you could go from here.  The doctor here may also have better advice.  I don't think that he specifically treats children but I think that being educated and informed he would have some idea.

[theshycrier]

that happened to me once too. i was in the kitchen and my mother was talking about something and said something that made me really angry at her and i thought about taking the knife in my hand and stabbing her in the back as she bent down to open the oven. i put the knife down and walked away. about social services, i have thought about it many times over the years but, i don't really have any story that would get me taken away. her favoring a sister, no. her making me angry, i don't think so. her making me feel like im useless? i really doubt it. i have nothing to say that would get me taken away. but am i weird for wanting her love even tho i so strongly dislike her?

[Jaquta]

I have found that blame isn't very useful.  Parents also don't like hearing that their parenting skills may have let their child down.  Some parents find that as threatening and insulting.  Some don't take the time to consider how others involved may feel.

The same sex parent is suppose to be the single biggest influence in a persons life.

I expect many of us feel that we would like to do things differently and better.  Sometimes despite our best intentions things don't turn out that way.

I know what you mean.  Often life seems so bleak.  You feel powerless and defeated and you lose hope.

That's good motivation not to hurt yourself.  I have made a commitment to myself not to hurt myself because of how others treat me.  Is it fair to you that you jeopardise your health and safety because of comments made by an uninsightful individual?  You're worth more than the rubbish people put out there about you.  You deserve better.  Also while you are alive you have the opportunity to change and to move forward.  To move towards where you want to be/ go.  For the most part the world is an amazing place.

The worry is probably caused by both stress and anxiety.  I too often feel so trapped that I just want to run away.  I have nowhere to go though and would hate to have to justify my actions to others (my family, my doctor, possibly the police and other health professionals).  For me that creates a further burden and just isn't worth the trouble.
OD's don't work and I wouldn't recommend that to anyone.  I think that hurting yourself does give you some short-term relief, even some sympathy, but it is damaging.
I took excess discharge meds which were said to be at toxic levels and just spent time in hospital on a ventilator.  It creates so many more questions.  In my anger and frustration I have used life as ammunition to hurt others.  Nobody can make me want to live and I think that tends to hurt others or causes them to want to gain power and control over you.
Anyway, hurting yourself is a bad idea and if you feel the urge to I would recommend that you talk to your doctor or go to the hospital.
I can relate to wanting to hurt my mother too.  Mum did stuff to annoy me once when in the kitchen and I had a knife in my hand and had the urge to drive it in her back.  I don't like killing anything, flies, spiders, animals, etc so I was probably quite lucky.  I walked away to give myself some space and my mum followed me to my bedroom.  Not good.  Hurting others, although sometimes tempting, wont help.  I know that you wont hurt your mother and I know how scary having those thoughts is but you need to take a step back when feeling that way.  I think that talking about this stuff with a doctor and a T would be a good idea.  They can help you work through why the thoughts make you think, feel and behave that way.  I think for me it was probably because I felt so invalidated by my mother.  Maybe her being seriously sick and fragile were relevant factors too.

You have days like that.  Days where you just have to laugh or cry because everything is going so horrendously wrong.  I think it comes back to reality being different to how we expect it to be.  If we don't put so much pressure on ourselves then things seem to be more manageable and less stressful.

I am probably the one with the most issues in my family yet are the one who recieves the least support.  I feel that they think my issues are my fault whereas theirs are due to some other person, event, etc.
I have two brothers and two sisters and know what it can feel like to feel invisible or to have others favoured.  I guess some people just have a greater affinity to some people.
I have a better rapport with people on the net than with my own family.

I'm not sure but a lot of things.  There's the obvious stuff like car accidents and wars, etc.  One lady once lost her child in a mall and that was experienced as traumatic for her.  I'm not a doctor but I think that a lot of things could be traumatic.  You would probably know based on your reaction to an incident.
I got knocked off my bike and then run over.  That was traumatic for me.  I nearly drowned.  hospital.  surgery.  the death of my pop (grandfather).  Talking to people feels traumatic to me.  Not scoring 100% in a test or exam.
I guess with ptsd it is likely to be caused by some significant event.  I guess with bpd you don't always know.  I think that you can sense that stuff is wrong though.  You can feel like something is missing or not right.

One of my nephew's friends is diabetic and has an insulin pump.  He's four now.

I guess that would be extremely scary for someone so young.  I saw my mother having seizures in a hospital and I was pretty shocked.  I must have been pretty pale as one of my mothers consultants asked me if I was OK.  I was a lot older than you were and there plenty of people to take responsibility for my mothers immediate health in the hospital.  I would have been pretty freaked out if I were in your situation.  Probably around that age I was pretty traumatised to find out that Santa didn't exist.  There may have been other stuff going on as well but ... we're so young and vulnerable at that age.

What you describe I think probably would fit with ptsd.  I haven't checked out the diagnostic criteria for many years though.
BPD may also fit in the sense of being abandoned by your mum.

It is easy to see where your anger at your mum comes from now.  I expect that growing up in that environmetn did seem unfair.  On some level you love your mum but on another you're angry and angry with her for putting you through all she has.

It is almost certain that they have contributed.
Given that your mother doesn't take care of her health i wouldn't expect her to be overly concerned about your issues.  I think it then becomes even more important for you to get support and to access help yourself.  Would you like to be treated as your mother has treated herself over the years?  I expect she has reasons for her behaviour but that is her story and I think that you should concentrate on your own.

I would strongly urge you to see a psychiatrist, who will be better able to diagnose you.  If you hate your mother and home so much then would getting social services involved be so bad?  People can help you if only you ask the right people and the right questions.

I honestly wouldn't know where to start but maybe someone else will be able to help you on that one?  A trusted, responsible adult could be a good place to start.

[theshycrier]

about bpd and ptsd ... what exactly can be called a traumatic event? because the symptoms for both seem to suit me, but the causes for both disorders don't really fit any part of my life, i don't think. my mother has diabetes and has had it since she was 16. i forget what type but she needs sugar to keep her blood sugar up. anyway, she would not take care of herself when me and my sister were young. (she still doesn't, but it seemed worse then) so, usually my father would work out of town for a week at a time and each time, i swear, she wouldn't eat supper early enough or she would go to sleep right after, but anyway, that would make her blood sugar low and she would have an episode in the middle of the night. i would have to get and and i didn't fully understand what happened when she did this, because i was young, maybe 4 or 5 and i would open a coke for her and plead with her to drink it, but she was too out of it. depending how mad it was, she would just sit there sweating and unresponsive or she would be fighting you and looking confused.  either way she wouldn't be able to hear me. so it would end up with me cal;ling my grandparents who lived not that far away and they would come, and if they wouldn't help then they called a ambulance and we went to go over to their house for the night. when i was young i found this scary, but after a while i did get used to it, as i am now. although, now when it happens i feel like shouting at her about doing this tyo me over and over again or just punching her in the face as revenge. but i don't know if its really that big of an event. in complex ptsd, it said that causes were usually being a prisoner to something or being in an event of which you could not easliy escape. im just wondering if these events, that happened over and over again in my household for years and years, could be causes for these disorders.

[theshycrier]

i get what ur saying but my mother is alot of the problem. im not exagerating when i say i hate her. she is the biggest negative influance in my life. i get that it may help me in the future but im afriad of her reaction. if i blame her on anything she would be flat out pissed. she is the reason i cut and why im depressed and i doubt she loves me enough to care. a friends parents probably cares about my more then she does. when i was younger she neglected me and she was always yelling at me. when ever anyone says anything about her parenting she says 'i would never treat my kids the way my mother treated me' i have made that same  promise to any children i have in the future, that is if i live to have a future. who knows if she'll just push me far enough to off myself. plus, i worry alot about everything so thats anxiety. i have thought so many times of runnign away or to od on pain killers or just push my mother down the stairs or soemthing. all of my frineds kno something about me. my mother favors my sister and i have a heart problem and evrything in my life just always goes to sh*t

[Jaquta]

Holding off telling someone, in my opinion, is a huge mistake.  Issues with your parents can be worked through.  

My relationship with my parents is OK although not great.  I didn't tell my parents that I was accessing support (mainly because they are part of the problem and because I felt uncomfortable telling them).  I think that talking to my parents may have helped.  My parents hold these very rigid beliefs and I've found it hard to find acceptance in all that.  It is difficult struggling with menatl health issues without parents using comments you've made to attack you with.

Parents may not change and therefore the onus is on you to find support that will help you.  Don't let your fear of your parents reaction, etc prevent you from accessing good treatment and support.  With good support you might also be able to include them in a non-threatening way in your recovery.

My advice would be to seek a psych consult.  This is your life and decisions you make now may affect your future.  It is a lot of responsibility and one your parents should be helping you through.  If you don't have their support, a frind's parent may be a good interim measure.  Perhaps that trusted, responsible adult could also talk to your parents?

This is important, please don't just sit on it and do nothing.

I don't meant to pressure you.  I just want what is best for you.  Running away or avoiding things now, while less stressful, doesn't particularly help in the long-term.

[theshycrier]

well i don't think i'll check it out cos im not great at these kind of sites but i would totally tell someone else, a friends parent probably since most of my friends already kno. the thing is not that i don't want to tell, its that im afraid of my parents knowing. i would tell if they didn't have to be told, but thats not going to happen so i think i'll hold off some more :P

[Jaquta]

What about someone at school?  A teacher, a school counselor?  Is there a responsible adult in your life who you could ask?  It doesn't have to be your parents.  Another family member?  A family friend?  A friend's parents?  It doesn't have to be your parents.  It would be best if it were your parents but at the end of the day the important thing is that you get support through this.

dbt is often used to treat bpd.  There is a dbtclass at yahoohealthgroups *******.  You could try that.  It's a poor substitute for good treatment but it could be helpful until you're able to access that.

[theshycrier]

thanks lot, for taking the time to find an answer. i am able to ask but not yet willing; im scared of their reaction and how things will turn out in the end.  i really dont want to ask them or tell them anything. you have to realize that i don't think i can.  thanks for trying to help though

[Jaquta]

No discussion here should replace speaking to a doctor in person.  I think that getting an appropriate diagnosis at an early stage is beneficial, if not crucial, to recovery.

I too did some researching on the internet.  I found going through the dsm-iv for bpd helpful.  Same for depression and anxiety as they were prominent in my presentation.  I personally didn't find others accounts of the disorder very helpful.  Mainly I guess because everybody is different.  We have different presentations, different diagnoses (although some are the same), we live in different countries and have access to vastly different health services.  We come from different cultures and we have different life experiences.

Are you able to ask your parents to take you to your family doctor (who will be able to refer you to a psychiatrist)?

I can't stress enough the importance of seeing a psychiatrist and getting an appropriate diagnosis (and then following that up if need be with appropriate treatment).

I sometimes answer questions on the borderline personality disorder community forum.  If you would like to ask more questions, etc there feel free.  I am happy for you to message me to if you would prefer to do that too.

[theshycrier]

thanks alot. ur post was very helpful
becos i wasn't sure what i had, and that helped figure it out. im still not exactly sure about it all, but it did help me.  thanks for commenting!

[Jaquta]

My posts ramble and end up extremely confusing.  I wish I were more succinct.  

I think as patients we become quite proficient at learning about diagnoses but I think that as time goes by and we stop researching our condition(s), and others we think we may have, we lose some of that information.

A psychiatrist is the best person to talk to about psych disorders.

[Peter Forster]

I think that Jaquta's response is exactly what I would have said if I were that articulate. I agree with the assessment of possible conditions. I also agree that there is every reason to be optimistic that good help could make a big difference in your life. Thanks for writing in.