Aa
ANTI Anti-Immunization RANT
There is a sizeable group in the US shouting to the heavens that immunizations are evil and cause all many of diseases and disorders from autism to autoimmune and neurodegenerative disease. I have yet to see any convincing scientific data supporting this, but have read an enormous amount of "theory", "supposition", and tons of testimonial verbage.
As a pediatrician with post-doc work in immunology, I am aware that there is a huge movement to discredit immunizations. Believe me, the scientists leading the investigation into the safety of these vaccines work tirelessly to make sure we are not poisoning the health of our kides and population. I know. I worked with many of them. These scientists are NOT all under the BIG THumb of Big Pharmaceuticals!
Adjuvuncts have been in almost all vaccines since the begginings of the immunization program in the 1950s. Yes, there are people out there saying that immunizations are the cause of almost every disease or disorder now plagueing us. There is not evidence for this.
Beings that, before the era of immunizations, millions of people died yearly from polio, tetanus, diptheria, pertussis, measles, rubella, mumps, HIB, chicken pox, lets all presume Dr. Shaw and Jenny McCarthey are right and we stop immunizing. If we did, the epidemics of all these diseases would return within a couple years and we would look back on the era of immunizations with longing. These diseases are not erradicated. They are still breathing down our necks. As an example, in the 70's there was a widespread belief that the DPT shot (specifically the pertussis component) caused a severe type of brain damage and resulted in some babies having severe seizures, retardation and/or death. After having 4 or 5 of these cases in one year, England ceased immunizing for pertussis (Whooping Cough). The second year the country was ravaged with a pertussis epidemic and more than 2 dozen kids died among the hundreds that were hospitalized, some with permanent lung damage. England resumed immunizing, but not before more kids died and were crippled. Pertussis is around us all the time. It is one of the most common causes of pneumonia and bronchitis in teenagers in the US.
Then it was shown that the episodes of seizures, brain damage or death was not due to the pertussis vaccine at all, but was the number of numbers that would have had this neuro problem whether or not they needed this vaccine. The numbers are about 3 per million kids hwo got the vaccine had this "reaction." But also about three per million kids who DIDN'T get the vaccine had the same thing happen to them.
Another example is the still-wide-spread belief that the measles vaccine causes autism. Even though this line of research was totally debunked by scientists world-side and the main researcher was shown to be in bed with the attorneys representing parents of autistic children, the statements still run wild on the internet getting parents all upset again.
On our news last night across the street from a clinic giving out the H1N1 shot, there was a group protesting. The signs read "Vaccines are not safe!" "The CDC is lying to us!" At the same time the stats on the evolving swine flu were released for the week past. There have been around 1000 deaths from the swine flu so far in this country. 100 have been kids. In the Pacific Northwest we had 15 deaths from the flu in the last two weeks alone in one county.
The CDC has put unprecedented protocols in place for the reporting of any untoward reactions from the H1N1 vaccine. People are suspicious because of the reactions from the Swine Flu Vaccine from a few decades ago - eg Guillain-Barre Syndrome.
There is NO evidence - and yes, it has been looked for - that MS is a result of any immunization - or even that an immunization may be partially at fault.
Immunization levels are falling in this country to rather dangerous levels. We are already seeing localized outbreaks of measles and pertussis. When I practiced in Colorado in the 80's we had a huge outbreak at a church camp caused by an unimmunized child who travelled there from the East Coast. Remember, Helen Keller was a normal 3 year-old before she caught measles and became blind and deaf. We have to approach this fear-mongering about vaccines with great caution. We would be wrong to believe that vaccines are not constantly studied for their safety or that we would be better off without them.
I believe that the people who currently withhold vaccines for their children are hypocritically depending on every else around them to keep on vaccinating so that their children will be safe because of herd immunity. Herd Immunity is the situation that most people are immune (from vaccines) so they do not carry the diseases, thus protecting the unimmunized ones. However, herd immunity will fail if the percentage of unimmunized people falls - AND IT IS FALLING.
I am old enough to have seen children die from tetanus (2), pertussis (8) a long, slow death from slow suffocation and a body wracked by uncontrollable coughing spells that lead to respiratory arrest), chicken pox (3), measles (1), HIB (10+), mennigococcal meningitis (5+) and Hepatitis B. Polio is not erradicated. It has been gone from the Western Hemisphere for several years, but it still runs wild in some thrid world countries, especially where conflict interferes with WHO's vaccination attempts. However, I was alive during the polio epidemics of the '50s and many of my relatives are now suffering Post-Polio syndrome.
I challenge anyone on the anti-immunization bandwagon to show good scientific evidence that the program has lead to the widespred neuro diseases that they claim. We are in the middle of an infectious disease pandemic - fortunately it is so far a mild one. Only 1000 people have died out of many millions of infections. But, if we stop immunizing, the horror that will reign down will be terrible indeed.
Rant over.
Quix, MD
As a pediatrician with post-doc work in immunology, I am aware that there is a huge movement to discredit immunizations. Believe me, the scientists leading the investigation into the safety of these vaccines work tirelessly to make sure we are not poisoning the health of our kides and population. I know. I worked with many of them. These scientists are NOT all under the BIG THumb of Big Pharmaceuticals!
Adjuvuncts have been in almost all vaccines since the begginings of the immunization program in the 1950s. Yes, there are people out there saying that immunizations are the cause of almost every disease or disorder now plagueing us. There is not evidence for this.
Beings that, before the era of immunizations, millions of people died yearly from polio, tetanus, diptheria, pertussis, measles, rubella, mumps, HIB, chicken pox, lets all presume Dr. Shaw and Jenny McCarthey are right and we stop immunizing. If we did, the epidemics of all these diseases would return within a couple years and we would look back on the era of immunizations with longing. These diseases are not erradicated. They are still breathing down our necks. As an example, in the 70's there was a widespread belief that the DPT shot (specifically the pertussis component) caused a severe type of brain damage and resulted in some babies having severe seizures, retardation and/or death. After having 4 or 5 of these cases in one year, England ceased immunizing for pertussis (Whooping Cough). The second year the country was ravaged with a pertussis epidemic and more than 2 dozen kids died among the hundreds that were hospitalized, some with permanent lung damage. England resumed immunizing, but not before more kids died and were crippled. Pertussis is around us all the time. It is one of the most common causes of pneumonia and bronchitis in teenagers in the US.
Then it was shown that the episodes of seizures, brain damage or death was not due to the pertussis vaccine at all, but was the number of numbers that would have had this neuro problem whether or not they needed this vaccine. The numbers are about 3 per million kids hwo got the vaccine had this "reaction." But also about three per million kids who DIDN'T get the vaccine had the same thing happen to them.
Another example is the still-wide-spread belief that the measles vaccine causes autism. Even though this line of research was totally debunked by scientists world-side and the main researcher was shown to be in bed with the attorneys representing parents of autistic children, the statements still run wild on the internet getting parents all upset again.
On our news last night across the street from a clinic giving out the H1N1 shot, there was a group protesting. The signs read "Vaccines are not safe!" "The CDC is lying to us!" At the same time the stats on the evolving swine flu were released for the week past. There have been around 1000 deaths from the swine flu so far in this country. 100 have been kids. In the Pacific Northwest we had 15 deaths from the flu in the last two weeks alone in one county.
The CDC has put unprecedented protocols in place for the reporting of any untoward reactions from the H1N1 vaccine. People are suspicious because of the reactions from the Swine Flu Vaccine from a few decades ago - eg Guillain-Barre Syndrome.
There is NO evidence - and yes, it has been looked for - that MS is a result of any immunization - or even that an immunization may be partially at fault.
Immunization levels are falling in this country to rather dangerous levels. We are already seeing localized outbreaks of measles and pertussis. When I practiced in Colorado in the 80's we had a huge outbreak at a church camp caused by an unimmunized child who travelled there from the East Coast. Remember, Helen Keller was a normal 3 year-old before she caught measles and became blind and deaf. We have to approach this fear-mongering about vaccines with great caution. We would be wrong to believe that vaccines are not constantly studied for their safety or that we would be better off without them.
I believe that the people who currently withhold vaccines for their children are hypocritically depending on every else around them to keep on vaccinating so that their children will be safe because of herd immunity. Herd Immunity is the situation that most people are immune (from vaccines) so they do not carry the diseases, thus protecting the unimmunized ones. However, herd immunity will fail if the percentage of unimmunized people falls - AND IT IS FALLING.
I am old enough to have seen children die from tetanus (2), pertussis (8) a long, slow death from slow suffocation and a body wracked by uncontrollable coughing spells that lead to respiratory arrest), chicken pox (3), measles (1), HIB (10+), mennigococcal meningitis (5+) and Hepatitis B. Polio is not erradicated. It has been gone from the Western Hemisphere for several years, but it still runs wild in some thrid world countries, especially where conflict interferes with WHO's vaccination attempts. However, I was alive during the polio epidemics of the '50s and many of my relatives are now suffering Post-Polio syndrome.
I challenge anyone on the anti-immunization bandwagon to show good scientific evidence that the program has lead to the widespred neuro diseases that they claim. We are in the middle of an infectious disease pandemic - fortunately it is so far a mild one. Only 1000 people have died out of many millions of infections. But, if we stop immunizing, the horror that will reign down will be terrible indeed.
Rant over.
Quix, MD
I spoke too broadly in my rant, which was , by nature emotional and spontaneous. My message was aimed at those who participate in the campaign to end the immunization program and who do indulge in fear mongering and ridiculous twoddle. There are often reasons to withhold specific or most immunizations, for example for allergies to components or immune deficiencies.
If you have had to withhold the protection from your son, then you have my sympathy for the quandry that puts you in, as he is unprotected and the immunization rates are falling close to those which might put him in the middle of an epidemic.
By age three he is protected - at least partially - against many of the diseases about which I spoke. We have that to comfort us anyway.
I am sorry for the omissions in my piece about parents who chose not to immunize. It should not have been universal, but rather against the movement which seeks to demonize the immunization program and convince others to not immunize. It is also a sore point with me, because these people often aim their attacks at the pediatricians who recommend the shots calling us puppets of government and Big Pharma and accuse us of willingly attempting to harm their children.
I am sorry for upsetting you. Perhaps this thread should be deleted.
Quix
If you have had to withhold the protection from your son, then you have my sympathy for the quandry that puts you in, as he is unprotected and the immunization rates are falling close to those which might put him in the middle of an epidemic.
By age three he is protected - at least partially - against many of the diseases about which I spoke. We have that to comfort us anyway.
I am sorry for the omissions in my piece about parents who chose not to immunize. It should not have been universal, but rather against the movement which seeks to demonize the immunization program and convince others to not immunize. It is also a sore point with me, because these people often aim their attacks at the pediatricians who recommend the shots calling us puppets of government and Big Pharma and accuse us of willingly attempting to harm their children.
I am sorry for upsetting you. Perhaps this thread should be deleted.
Quix
Jen - This is a fantastic article and one I wish everyone in the US would read and consider!
Everone please read this!
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/ff_waronscience/
Everone please read this!
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/ff_waronscience/
This article was in my Wired magazine this month... should be required reading for everyone.
http: //www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/ff_waronscience
http: //www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/ff_waronscience
supermum_ms, your son is exactly the person whom we need to protect by getting immunized. My neighbor's children can't receive immunizations because of hemolytic reactions, and that makes it all the more important for those of us who don't have these reactions to do so. Not only do we protect ourselves when we immunize, we protect those who cannot receive them because they're too young (e.g., infants and pertussis) or because of contraindications (hemolytic response).
The vaccination decision should be based on a risk-benefit analysis. What are the risks of getting the vaccines vs. the risks of getting the disease (and add in the risk of passing it along to someone who is at risk for it). No matter how you do the math, the risks of vaccination are exponentially lower than the risks of death or permanent disability from the diseases themselves. The flu vax, for example, has no known associated deaths. The flu itself? Well...just read the headlines.
As parents, we take risks every moment of every day, making these instant calculations: driving our children, sending them to school, flying with them, taking them to amusement parks, letting them ride bikes...and these all can in the aggregate or separately be far riskier than vaccination. In my opinion and based on my math, there's far more health risk in the average US child's daily sugar intake than there is in vaccination.
Bio
The vaccination decision should be based on a risk-benefit analysis. What are the risks of getting the vaccines vs. the risks of getting the disease (and add in the risk of passing it along to someone who is at risk for it). No matter how you do the math, the risks of vaccination are exponentially lower than the risks of death or permanent disability from the diseases themselves. The flu vax, for example, has no known associated deaths. The flu itself? Well...just read the headlines.
As parents, we take risks every moment of every day, making these instant calculations: driving our children, sending them to school, flying with them, taking them to amusement parks, letting them ride bikes...and these all can in the aggregate or separately be far riskier than vaccination. In my opinion and based on my math, there's far more health risk in the average US child's daily sugar intake than there is in vaccination.
Bio
DONT DELETE THIS!! Its alright-everyone can express their feelings!! its fine !! big huggies tick!!
I say don't delete the thread, it contains some very useful information.
I remember in a thread last year about vaccinations you changed my mind. I had wrongly thought that the vaccine was "live".
I also found what you said about leaving a month between the regular and the H1N1 shots interesting and again I wouldn't have thought about this if it wasn't for this thread.
Thank you for the info.
Mand
I remember in a thread last year about vaccinations you changed my mind. I had wrongly thought that the vaccine was "live".
I also found what you said about leaving a month between the regular and the H1N1 shots interesting and again I wouldn't have thought about this if it wasn't for this thread.
Thank you for the info.
Mand
maybe vaccines are alot better now with research-- but ill never forget-it was in the 60's my oldest sister got that polio shot i think it was in her arm-she went blind-was that a result of -it would of happened anyway? (sorry) but our mother would not let any of us other kids get it- her eyesight did come back- i was to little to remember how long it affected her. just needed to share that. tick
COMMUNITY LEADER
Correction: Naturalist should read Natropath. The baby died from complications it started as exma, the infection was systemic and she was in renal failure etc before she was taken to a dr, it was so bad it was far too late to save her. FYI both parents are in jail for negligent homicide.
Cheers as always JJ
Cheers as always JJ
It is certainly a timely thread. I understand JJ's sensitivity. Her situation demonstrates why it is so important for everyone who *can* be immunized to do so. The herd immunity will help protect those who can not be immunized for certain reasons.
As an economist, I see this as a public good problem. People way the costs and benefits to themselves (or their children) in deciding whether or not to immunize. They too often fail to include the costs to society if they choose not to immunize. This leads to lower that optimal rates of immunization (the standard schedule helps alleviate some fo this).
The summer before my oldest child was born, there was a problem of some sort with a vaccine they often give at birth (it was HIB or HepB or something like that) and there was a recall of the vaccine. In October, we opted not to get the vaccine in the hospital, but to wait until 2 months to start all vaccines. The he*l I got from the residents and attendings was horrible! At the time I didn't understand it (I knew I would get her fully vaccinated, I just wanted to wait until 2 months to start them, and to discuss the specific vaccine with my pediatrician, who confirmed there had been a problem but it was rectified, and was *fine* with us waiting until 2 months)--now I do more, and it makes me very sympathetic to people like JJ who can't vaccinate for some reason. My kids had some mild reactions and my middle one had to wait on MMR (she was allergic to eggs, but ended up getting the shot at the allergist's office), but luckily nothing severe.
Anyway, I'm rambling, but I completely agree with the purpose of the post. (Although I fear the vaccines are getting to VA too late--my kids have already been exposed at shcool--oldest is home with a fever and sore throat today--and our ped's office doesn't have the vaccine yet. The school is supposed to vaccinate this week, but my youngest isn't in kindergarten yet, and my oldest probably won't be able to get it because she's currently sick!) :(
Stephanie
As an economist, I see this as a public good problem. People way the costs and benefits to themselves (or their children) in deciding whether or not to immunize. They too often fail to include the costs to society if they choose not to immunize. This leads to lower that optimal rates of immunization (the standard schedule helps alleviate some fo this).
The summer before my oldest child was born, there was a problem of some sort with a vaccine they often give at birth (it was HIB or HepB or something like that) and there was a recall of the vaccine. In October, we opted not to get the vaccine in the hospital, but to wait until 2 months to start all vaccines. The he*l I got from the residents and attendings was horrible! At the time I didn't understand it (I knew I would get her fully vaccinated, I just wanted to wait until 2 months to start them, and to discuss the specific vaccine with my pediatrician, who confirmed there had been a problem but it was rectified, and was *fine* with us waiting until 2 months)--now I do more, and it makes me very sympathetic to people like JJ who can't vaccinate for some reason. My kids had some mild reactions and my middle one had to wait on MMR (she was allergic to eggs, but ended up getting the shot at the allergist's office), but luckily nothing severe.
Anyway, I'm rambling, but I completely agree with the purpose of the post. (Although I fear the vaccines are getting to VA too late--my kids have already been exposed at shcool--oldest is home with a fever and sore throat today--and our ped's office doesn't have the vaccine yet. The school is supposed to vaccinate this week, but my youngest isn't in kindergarten yet, and my oldest probably won't be able to get it because she's currently sick!) :(
Stephanie
COMMUNITY LEADER
No dont delete the thread, i'm all for informative choice, if facts are not put out there then lots of inocents are being put at risk for no logical reason that i can fathom, so please dont delete. I too am a little sensitive, but i didn't realise when i sent the post that it sounded rather patheticly sensitive, so i too am sorry for you thinking i was annoyed in someway at you or your choice of words, i tend to agree with the majority of it!!!
We dont get the tirades of plack weilding missinformed as you seem to get in America, no offence but there is no way anyone here would think a dr is a puppet of the government, big pharmacy corporations and certainly not attempting to harm children, it boggles my mind that anyone would think that way but i am under no allusion to the differences in the way our country's function, as limited as we are, we are also very lucky to have the system we do.
As for my son, some dr's say his immune system was compromised first by the gastro and then by the numerous shots, the others say he has a pre-disposition but no one will garantee what happened wont happen again. It has been years now of a very restricted existence to any chemical, something as small as an M & M was enough to have him covered in blisters, inside and out but he is getting introduced to things slowly in the hope he will one day be able to be like everone else. I had an almost 4 year old that would explain to his dr that when ever i put hair gel in his hair, the chemicals were being absorbed into his brain through the hair folicals because his mind would go all fuzzy and his brain hurt until it was washed off. Eventually we listened to what the little professor was telling us and he's been on the mend ever since but dont get me started on what they (conspirathy rolling eyes here :-) ) are putting in the food we eat. lol
I think people need information to make valid choices, i find it amusing when all the misinformation get pulled out of the wood works and tauted as fact, it doesn't matter where that information is coming from. As you will be well aware there are a lot of so called dr's out there (or claiming medical expertise) that are dangerous, just the other day we had a baby die from exma because the father was a naturalist and refused to use 'dr's medicine', missinformation is often dangerous if taken seriously enough.
Woffle-ated rambling is over, i took no ofense and i hope you didn't with my post.
Cheers....JJ
We dont get the tirades of plack weilding missinformed as you seem to get in America, no offence but there is no way anyone here would think a dr is a puppet of the government, big pharmacy corporations and certainly not attempting to harm children, it boggles my mind that anyone would think that way but i am under no allusion to the differences in the way our country's function, as limited as we are, we are also very lucky to have the system we do.
As for my son, some dr's say his immune system was compromised first by the gastro and then by the numerous shots, the others say he has a pre-disposition but no one will garantee what happened wont happen again. It has been years now of a very restricted existence to any chemical, something as small as an M & M was enough to have him covered in blisters, inside and out but he is getting introduced to things slowly in the hope he will one day be able to be like everone else. I had an almost 4 year old that would explain to his dr that when ever i put hair gel in his hair, the chemicals were being absorbed into his brain through the hair folicals because his mind would go all fuzzy and his brain hurt until it was washed off. Eventually we listened to what the little professor was telling us and he's been on the mend ever since but dont get me started on what they (conspirathy rolling eyes here :-) ) are putting in the food we eat. lol
I think people need information to make valid choices, i find it amusing when all the misinformation get pulled out of the wood works and tauted as fact, it doesn't matter where that information is coming from. As you will be well aware there are a lot of so called dr's out there (or claiming medical expertise) that are dangerous, just the other day we had a baby die from exma because the father was a naturalist and refused to use 'dr's medicine', missinformation is often dangerous if taken seriously enough.
Woffle-ated rambling is over, i took no ofense and i hope you didn't with my post.
Cheers....JJ
I am against deleting this thread as it presently stands; I think there's good information, and a balance of facts and concerns when taken as a whole. Just one person's thoughts. Peace.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I'm NOT one of those people that was too lazy to immunise or making the choice of not continuing to immunise my son because of scare mungering and bogus twottle that gets thrown around. I happen to be a supporter of immunisation, and i find that because my son is one of the very few that had an adverse reaction, the risks are very real for him and i will not put him or us through that fear ever again.
I get verbally bashed by everyone and i do mean everyone that finds out that he isn't fully immunised and unfortunately probably never will be, i get lumped into the 'ignorant people mold' even when i'm far from being ignorant about the benefits and the issues of immunisation. Also because my children are diagnosed with Asperger's people assume that i am also in the MMR camp, there is NO scientific evidence that MMR causes Autism, and it has absolutely nothing to do with why he cant continue to be immunised, it wouldn't matter if he was diagnosed as a laminton, he is chemically intollerant period!
I had a robust, offf the charts gifted child who never ever showed any signs of Autism or anything else, he was perfectly healthy and NOT allergic to anything. At 3yrs old he had missed part of his immunisation due to gastro that went threw the kindy, Dr recommended he get boosters to catch up at his next scheduled visit, which we did. He had 3 multi viral needles and the oral polio (11 vriuses i believe), he didn't flinch but a few hours later he was in trouble, and 2 years of ill health and what we respectfully refer as the nightmare with far too many emergency trips to the ER until they could work out why he was reacting so strongly to just about everything he ate or came in contact with.
Would i still immunise, no, would i if this hadn't happened to my son, yes absolutely. I dont like him not being safe but it gets my goat when people acuse me of putting their children in danger because mine is not, it is my child who is in danger not theirs, if they are immunised they are safe. I will never know what caused his chemical sensetivities, it doesnt really matter, all i know is that he cant even eat something that has an additive of anykind with out a horrible reaction, i'm not about to stick one in his blood stream for the greater good of man kind, he's not expendible to us!
So if i've alienated you for not immunising then there is nothing i can do about it, sometimes there are legitimate reasoning behind not immunising and it isn't alway because of faulty logic or myths.
JJ
I get verbally bashed by everyone and i do mean everyone that finds out that he isn't fully immunised and unfortunately probably never will be, i get lumped into the 'ignorant people mold' even when i'm far from being ignorant about the benefits and the issues of immunisation. Also because my children are diagnosed with Asperger's people assume that i am also in the MMR camp, there is NO scientific evidence that MMR causes Autism, and it has absolutely nothing to do with why he cant continue to be immunised, it wouldn't matter if he was diagnosed as a laminton, he is chemically intollerant period!
I had a robust, offf the charts gifted child who never ever showed any signs of Autism or anything else, he was perfectly healthy and NOT allergic to anything. At 3yrs old he had missed part of his immunisation due to gastro that went threw the kindy, Dr recommended he get boosters to catch up at his next scheduled visit, which we did. He had 3 multi viral needles and the oral polio (11 vriuses i believe), he didn't flinch but a few hours later he was in trouble, and 2 years of ill health and what we respectfully refer as the nightmare with far too many emergency trips to the ER until they could work out why he was reacting so strongly to just about everything he ate or came in contact with.
Would i still immunise, no, would i if this hadn't happened to my son, yes absolutely. I dont like him not being safe but it gets my goat when people acuse me of putting their children in danger because mine is not, it is my child who is in danger not theirs, if they are immunised they are safe. I will never know what caused his chemical sensetivities, it doesnt really matter, all i know is that he cant even eat something that has an additive of anykind with out a horrible reaction, i'm not about to stick one in his blood stream for the greater good of man kind, he's not expendible to us!
So if i've alienated you for not immunising then there is nothing i can do about it, sometimes there are legitimate reasoning behind not immunising and it isn't alway because of faulty logic or myths.
JJ
DJ - I am concerned about your comment. Perhaps the vaccine does offer you, specifically some danger. Please ask your doctor which is more dangerous; the very contagious flu that someone might bring to you or the vaccine itself. Okay?
Quix
Quix
Regarding your "rant"..Amen.
I watched a 3 year old die of pertussis. It's a horror I will NEVER forget. Mom didn't "have the time" to get the free vaccines.
Thank you for the information you've provided.
Ren
I watched a 3 year old die of pertussis. It's a horror I will NEVER forget. Mom didn't "have the time" to get the free vaccines.
Thank you for the information you've provided.
Ren
You said this so well, All I can say is you rock. When I see Dr, Patel I Plan on requesting this vaccine for myself, even though he has never allowed me to have the regular yearly flu shot.. I know I have had a serious reaction before, but that doesn't mean it will happen this time..I don't want to risk getting this awful flu, I live in a senior building, and that seems to be one of the high risk groups....
I almost took myself off the Cymbalta. because of my Daughter's fear... while talking to a very good friend, I realized how silly that sounded, considering it is helping with the awful pain I have been living with... Some times when we try to please our love ones, we do a disservice to ourselves. So I'll talk to Dr.Dahi in the morning, but tonight I'll take the Cymbalta... missing one dose won't make that big of a difference
Thanks for you insight... We were the first generation to get these life saving vaccines and most of us are still kicking and breathing... I hope every one reads your post and the one that Lulu posted earlier today... Great work from the Flowers one more time...
Hugs going out to all of you {{{{{{{{{~!~}}}}}}}
I almost took myself off the Cymbalta. because of my Daughter's fear... while talking to a very good friend, I realized how silly that sounded, considering it is helping with the awful pain I have been living with... Some times when we try to please our love ones, we do a disservice to ourselves. So I'll talk to Dr.Dahi in the morning, but tonight I'll take the Cymbalta... missing one dose won't make that big of a difference
Thanks for you insight... We were the first generation to get these life saving vaccines and most of us are still kicking and breathing... I hope every one reads your post and the one that Lulu posted earlier today... Great work from the Flowers one more time...
Hugs going out to all of you {{{{{{{{{~!~}}}}}}}
Julie - I am waiting another month for the H1N1 because I just got my flu shot and don't want to get another immunization for at least a month. If you get immunizations too close together you "can" cause the second not to work as well.
But, it is a close call. We are already in the middle of a pandemic. The virus itself has the potential to cause really severe relapses. And as you know any relapse can bring on some symtpoms that may be permanent. I don't know the answer. IN 4 to 6 weeks even more people around us will be infected. Unless one is willing to quarantine their families away from crowds, there is the risk of infection. H1N1 is one of the most infectious flu strains ever seen. Thank god it has not combined with the avian flu which is not so contagious, but has a 1 in 3 death rate.
JonGalt - The fear that a baby's immune system is "not ready" for immunizations is a complete myth. I forget the number, but by 6 weeks of age a baby's immune system is capable of mounting a full response to more than 2 million antigens (or more). It is fully functional. I don't know where the myth of "overwhelming a child's immune sytem" came from - certainly not science.
I still awaken occasionally from sleep shaking - reliving one of my most horrible moments as a pediatrician. I walked out of the ICU to tell a mother that her toddler had just died from HIB meningitis - I didn't have to say it because she knew it was because she chose not to immunize.
Quix
But, it is a close call. We are already in the middle of a pandemic. The virus itself has the potential to cause really severe relapses. And as you know any relapse can bring on some symtpoms that may be permanent. I don't know the answer. IN 4 to 6 weeks even more people around us will be infected. Unless one is willing to quarantine their families away from crowds, there is the risk of infection. H1N1 is one of the most infectious flu strains ever seen. Thank god it has not combined with the avian flu which is not so contagious, but has a 1 in 3 death rate.
JonGalt - The fear that a baby's immune system is "not ready" for immunizations is a complete myth. I forget the number, but by 6 weeks of age a baby's immune system is capable of mounting a full response to more than 2 million antigens (or more). It is fully functional. I don't know where the myth of "overwhelming a child's immune sytem" came from - certainly not science.
I still awaken occasionally from sleep shaking - reliving one of my most horrible moments as a pediatrician. I walked out of the ICU to tell a mother that her toddler had just died from HIB meningitis - I didn't have to say it because she knew it was because she chose not to immunize.
Quix
This is so timely.
I told my daughter and son that we are all going for the H1N1 vaccine tomorrow night. My daughter, who like most 16 yr olds right now ..ut, um, knows everything. "They" are saying we are guinea pigs and "they" are saying it's not safe and "we" shouldn't get it until Nov. or December.
I asked the logical question, "who's they?" She said "school." I then quoted her what I've learned, etc. Declared the safety, the stats of children dead already. Told her the make it just like they do the seasonal flu. She asked me how I knew that (sarcastically) and I said, the CDC. She still wasn't convinced.
My point is, I hope the schools have a plan to educate, so more rumors like this can get squashed. I'm sure she's not the only one believing everything heard despite parents best efforts to educate with facts - so influencial at this age.
Thank you Doc Q for your rant. I always learn so much and it is so very important to my family's well being.
Mucho gracias,
-shell
I told my daughter and son that we are all going for the H1N1 vaccine tomorrow night. My daughter, who like most 16 yr olds right now ..ut, um, knows everything. "They" are saying we are guinea pigs and "they" are saying it's not safe and "we" shouldn't get it until Nov. or December.
I asked the logical question, "who's they?" She said "school." I then quoted her what I've learned, etc. Declared the safety, the stats of children dead already. Told her the make it just like they do the seasonal flu. She asked me how I knew that (sarcastically) and I said, the CDC. She still wasn't convinced.
My point is, I hope the schools have a plan to educate, so more rumors like this can get squashed. I'm sure she's not the only one believing everything heard despite parents best efforts to educate with facts - so influencial at this age.
Thank you Doc Q for your rant. I always learn so much and it is so very important to my family's well being.
Mucho gracias,
-shell
Great post, you have given me confidence. It's hard as a parent to get the kids immuned with all the hype and negativity. We got the eldest immuned but we just shifted the dates a little over. We figured if she was a little older she would handle it better.
I understand your rant too perfectly. Can't relate to people who don't get their kids or themselves immunized, but I know several who are doing just that.
How do you feel about immunizations for the H1N1 for us as MS patients? I am curious as my neuro last week said that he'd prefer I wait, not skip, the vaccine for another 4-6 weeks while we wait to see if there are unexpected neurological side effects. Is that reasonable in your opinion?
Julie
How do you feel about immunizations for the H1N1 for us as MS patients? I am curious as my neuro last week said that he'd prefer I wait, not skip, the vaccine for another 4-6 weeks while we wait to see if there are unexpected neurological side effects. Is that reasonable in your opinion?
Julie
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