Aa
Dry eyes, and crying
Ok, so yall know thta I have a Dx. I have had chronic dry eyes on and off for years. They are so bad lately that contacts are popping out. Can MS cause this?
The crying thing. I am not usually a cryer, but lately.....When I am tired, I cry about everything, and I obcess about things. I do more than just cry, if I am truly upset by something, it is more like sobbing. What in the world is going on. Is this the MS, or am I just loosing it? I am not depressed, just highly emotional. Sometimes, we girls, get that way; that is not what is causing this. Got any ideas?
Ann
The crying thing. I am not usually a cryer, but lately.....When I am tired, I cry about everything, and I obcess about things. I do more than just cry, if I am truly upset by something, it is more like sobbing. What in the world is going on. Is this the MS, or am I just loosing it? I am not depressed, just highly emotional. Sometimes, we girls, get that way; that is not what is causing this. Got any ideas?
Ann
Unless I truly fall off the deep end, I will not take any medication for depression. Thanks for the link though.
All,
If you are interested, there is a trial recruiting ALS and MS patients right now for a drug to use for Pseudobulbar Affect (PBA)- you can read about it here -
http://www.pbatrial.com/about_pba.php
Currently there is no approved drug to treat this common MS problem.
Lulu
If you are interested, there is a trial recruiting ALS and MS patients right now for a drug to use for Pseudobulbar Affect (PBA)- you can read about it here -
http://www.pbatrial.com/about_pba.php
Currently there is no approved drug to treat this common MS problem.
Lulu
To Quix: Tanks , once again for educating and enlightening the "newbies". Much appreciated.
To Ann and Pat: I'm also in your club. Add menopause on top of that and some days I know I'm unbearable. The thing is I can usually distinguish what is hormonal driven and what is not. The hormonal stuff, I have this weird sense of guilt , like "Why did I just get mad over something so trivial". The rest of the emotional stuff sounds like Pat's day with mopping the floor. And work...they have seen me shed more tears over the stupidest things.
Glad there is an explanation . Still don't like the effects but guess I can't change much of that.
Ren
To Ann and Pat: I'm also in your club. Add menopause on top of that and some days I know I'm unbearable. The thing is I can usually distinguish what is hormonal driven and what is not. The hormonal stuff, I have this weird sense of guilt , like "Why did I just get mad over something so trivial". The rest of the emotional stuff sounds like Pat's day with mopping the floor. And work...they have seen me shed more tears over the stupidest things.
Glad there is an explanation . Still don't like the effects but guess I can't change much of that.
Ren
Quix - thank you so much for this it has helped me too, I have also struggled with this for sometime now and it has become an embarrassment at work.
Having held down a professional job for many years, I found myself bursting in to tears at the most inappropriate time to both mine and others embaressment and all this before I even had a 'mild MS' label. I had no idea what was going on and my work colleagues were very perplexed feeling I was perhaps a little too hormonal - no already through the change!
To Ann - you are not alone the other day I was trying to bake a cake when I knocked over the flour, trying to tidy it up I knocked some onto the floor. I fetched a bucket and mop to clear it up all the time shouting at my poor husband who had only offered to help, I put the bucket of water on the floor started mopping and promptly stepped back and knocked the bucket of water all over the floor. I ended up sitting on the floor in a pool of soapy water crying uncontrollably, with my poor husband trying to console me that it was no big deal This happens too often for my liking.
I can really sympathize
Pat
Having held down a professional job for many years, I found myself bursting in to tears at the most inappropriate time to both mine and others embaressment and all this before I even had a 'mild MS' label. I had no idea what was going on and my work colleagues were very perplexed feeling I was perhaps a little too hormonal - no already through the change!
To Ann - you are not alone the other day I was trying to bake a cake when I knocked over the flour, trying to tidy it up I knocked some onto the floor. I fetched a bucket and mop to clear it up all the time shouting at my poor husband who had only offered to help, I put the bucket of water on the floor started mopping and promptly stepped back and knocked the bucket of water all over the floor. I ended up sitting on the floor in a pool of soapy water crying uncontrollably, with my poor husband trying to console me that it was no big deal This happens too often for my liking.
I can really sympathize
Pat
Read the last part of the blurb I wrote on Emotions and MS. what you are describing is crying that is not appropriate to what you are feeling. Well-described in MS. It is the pseudo-bulbar effect. This is not the same as depression.
The ting is, I don't feel depressed. I just start crying. It is almost like PMS. I was watching my husband put down tile in the bathroom, and I started crying. I wasnot unhappy, actually i was crying because I was happy. Then later, my two year old was throwing his dinner on the floor, and I started crying because I was tired, and did not want to clean it up.
I don't think that I have ever been clinically depressed. Infact, I am sure of it. This is something new and strange for me. I usually can emotion, and deal with it later. I pray about things. That is usually the end of it.
My husband just walked in and started reading over my sholder. I beggerd him not to and he became upset. "what you put it out there for all the world to see and you won't let me reade it." OOPS!! He never acts like that either.
What about the eyes?
I don't think that I have ever been clinically depressed. Infact, I am sure of it. This is something new and strange for me. I usually can emotion, and deal with it later. I pray about things. That is usually the end of it.
My husband just walked in and started reading over my sholder. I beggerd him not to and he became upset. "what you put it out there for all the world to see and you won't let me reade it." OOPS!! He never acts like that either.
What about the eyes?
Oops! I just saw that you are ahead of the game and posted the new HP and updates the old one. You are on the ball.
Lulu
Lulu
Q- kudos once again on a well thought out composition. Depression still carries such a stigma and we all need to speak up over and over that it is common with MS.
Are these topics covered in the HPs or should you put these into one?
Lu
Are these topics covered in the HPs or should you put these into one?
Lu
MEDICATIONS CAN CAUSE DEPRESSION AS A SIDE EFFECT
Finally, the medications used in MS may cause depression themselves. The first to be aware of is the Interferon-beta drugs; Avonex, Rebif, and Betaserson. Because of their action on the brain functions itself, which may include lowering the production of endorphins, depression must watched for carefully. People with a signifcant history of depessive disease are not the best candidates for these meds. Copaxone does not carry this effect to nearly the same degree, if at all. Another category of meds that have a potential for causing depression as a side effect are the "benzodiazepines" such as Valium (diazepam), Xanax (aprazolam), Klonopin (clonazepam), Ativan (Lorazepam) and there are many others.
So, it is clear that the possibility of depression is inherent in the disease of multiple sclerosis. It is also a disease that can cause depression by creating severe stresses in the life and many of the meds used can predispose to depression. How can we tell the difference? Actually, we can't for the most part. And it is not relevant to say that this depression is caused by the disease and that depression is cause by the stresses. The treatment is mostly the same. Every effort should be made to ease the stresses, relieve the symptoms and reduce meds that can cause the problem. Depression is not shameful in MS, nor in any other setting. It should be approached and treated just as any other symptom of a disease that encompasses almost every part of the body and life.
EMOTIONS IN MS
People with MS often have very labile emotions. This means they may switch rapidly from a neutral feeling to a sad, giggly, irritable or angry mood. This can make living with them quite unpredictble. It can make our own lives unpredictable. Again, some of this is underlying depression or pain or anxiety.
An interesting aspect to the discussion of emotions in MS is the well known "psuedo-bulbar" effect, which has been described in the disease for more than a century. People with MS may react to small things with extremes of crying or laughter (which are often inappropriate). In the face of a serious problem an MSer may suddenly begin to laugh or giggle uncontrollably and appear quite inappropriate. Or the opposite may happen. A small inconsequential thing may happen, and the person may cry with ouright sobbing. Early on this forum we had a member, Frann, who was taken to the hospital for a sudden inability to walk. During the exam which showed she had poor control over her legs, she began laughing hysterically. Once the doctor determined she wasn't high, he took her husband aside and said he wanted to check her for MS.
People with MS find this swing of uncontrolled emotions both embarrassing and frightening. It is hard to understand what is happening and they feel out of control, wondering if they might be going crazy. An uneducated doctor may agree with them, compounding the situation. The astute doc will see this as a sign that needs neurological investigation.
So we see that emotions can go haywire in this disease and much of it is NOT behavioral or situational. The disease, itself, plays with the generation of emotions in the brain.
Quix
Finally, the medications used in MS may cause depression themselves. The first to be aware of is the Interferon-beta drugs; Avonex, Rebif, and Betaserson. Because of their action on the brain functions itself, which may include lowering the production of endorphins, depression must watched for carefully. People with a signifcant history of depessive disease are not the best candidates for these meds. Copaxone does not carry this effect to nearly the same degree, if at all. Another category of meds that have a potential for causing depression as a side effect are the "benzodiazepines" such as Valium (diazepam), Xanax (aprazolam), Klonopin (clonazepam), Ativan (Lorazepam) and there are many others.
So, it is clear that the possibility of depression is inherent in the disease of multiple sclerosis. It is also a disease that can cause depression by creating severe stresses in the life and many of the meds used can predispose to depression. How can we tell the difference? Actually, we can't for the most part. And it is not relevant to say that this depression is caused by the disease and that depression is cause by the stresses. The treatment is mostly the same. Every effort should be made to ease the stresses, relieve the symptoms and reduce meds that can cause the problem. Depression is not shameful in MS, nor in any other setting. It should be approached and treated just as any other symptom of a disease that encompasses almost every part of the body and life.
EMOTIONS IN MS
People with MS often have very labile emotions. This means they may switch rapidly from a neutral feeling to a sad, giggly, irritable or angry mood. This can make living with them quite unpredictble. It can make our own lives unpredictable. Again, some of this is underlying depression or pain or anxiety.
An interesting aspect to the discussion of emotions in MS is the well known "psuedo-bulbar" effect, which has been described in the disease for more than a century. People with MS may react to small things with extremes of crying or laughter (which are often inappropriate). In the face of a serious problem an MSer may suddenly begin to laugh or giggle uncontrollably and appear quite inappropriate. Or the opposite may happen. A small inconsequential thing may happen, and the person may cry with ouright sobbing. Early on this forum we had a member, Frann, who was taken to the hospital for a sudden inability to walk. During the exam which showed she had poor control over her legs, she began laughing hysterically. Once the doctor determined she wasn't high, he took her husband aside and said he wanted to check her for MS.
People with MS find this swing of uncontrolled emotions both embarrassing and frightening. It is hard to understand what is happening and they feel out of control, wondering if they might be going crazy. An uneducated doctor may agree with them, compounding the situation. The astute doc will see this as a sign that needs neurological investigation.
So we see that emotions can go haywire in this disease and much of it is NOT behavioral or situational. The disease, itself, plays with the generation of emotions in the brain.
Quix
DEPRESSION IN MS
This is another very important topic that all of us need to understand. Depression and MS are close companions. Many people with MS will deal with depression at one time or another during their lives. We see depression from four main causes. First, depression is a "primary effect" of Multiple Sclerosis just as vision problems, paresthesias, pain, weakness, spasticity, vertigo and many other things are. Second, there is a depression known as the "depression of chronic illness." The stress of dealing with all that is involved with MS can cause a situational depression. Finally, many of the medications used in treating MS and its symptoms cause depression as a side effect. The first cause is the most important to understand.
DEPRESSION IS A PRIMARY EFFECT OF MS
The damage to the brain in Multiple Sclerosis often causes depression, just as directly as it causes optic neuritis or weakness. How this happens is not completely understood. Many researchers believe that the overall slowing of nerve conductions in the brain is mostly responsible for the creation of depression. We know it isn't just having a serious and incurable disease. The incidence of depression in MS is higher than it is in other much more disabling diseases or even fatal diseases like ALS.
Even in the most well-adjusted person MS can cause major depressive episodes. In people genetically predisposed to depression, with a history of severe depression, it is even more likely that they will be affected by this change in the working of the brain. At all points, the treating physician must be watchful for the development of signs of depression. Suicide is a seriously common side effect of this damage to the workings of the brain. It occurs at least seven times more than in people without MS, including those with other chronic illnesses. Families and friends of people with MS need to know about this problem that is peculiar to this disease. The biggest risk of suicide are in those with social isolation, a family history of mental disease, and who are living alone.
Depression is so much a part of the disease that many experts in the field are advocating counting a previous and recent Major Depressive Episode as one of the Clinical Attacks need for diagnosis in the McDonald Criteria. They are suggesting if a person is being worked up for MS and has had a Major Depressive Episode within the previous 2 years, that episode should be counted as an both the attack and as the clinical lesion (the abnormality on exam).
THE DEPRESSION OF CHRONIC ILLNESS
The second cause of depression in MS is the difficulty with the slowing metabolism of inactivity, chronic pain, chronic fatigue, and chronically not "feeling well." This causes what is called the Depression of Chronic Illness. Some experts would not list this and would say this is part of the next cause, which is situational. Others argue that it occurs too readily in people without a predisposition to depression who have a chronic illness.
THE SITUATIONAL DEPRESSION OF LIVING WITH MS
The third category is the depression caused by living with the disease. It is hard to cope with the many symptoms of this disease, along with the profound effects MS has on one's life. Many people with MS are no longer the person they once were. Their current state just doesn't match the image they have of themselves as a capable, independent and future-filled person. Many lose their careers. This is an expensive disease to have. Not only are the treatments and meds often expensive, but sometimes a person loses their source of income. This is an isolating disease to have. Travel is more difficult and people with MS may become home-bound. This reduces the time that we can spend with family and friends. Social isolation is a potent cause of depression.
This disease is hard on relationships. The spouse may suddenly have a caretaking role shoved upon them that they don't want, are not ready for, or are incapable of handling. Friction can arise over financial problems. The person with MS may feel guilty over this change in roles. The spouse may feel anger at the disease, at the affected loved one, or at the unfairness of it all. There may be intense frustration at not being able to fix it or make things right. We see marriages sometimes break up under the burden of MS.
And a major cause of disruption is the uncertainty of MS. What will the future bring? What will TODAY bring? Can we plan for additional children, for a vacation this year, to go see the folks this weekend? Never feeling as though anything is certain causes many people with MS to feel loss of control over the little and big things in their lives.
con't
This is another very important topic that all of us need to understand. Depression and MS are close companions. Many people with MS will deal with depression at one time or another during their lives. We see depression from four main causes. First, depression is a "primary effect" of Multiple Sclerosis just as vision problems, paresthesias, pain, weakness, spasticity, vertigo and many other things are. Second, there is a depression known as the "depression of chronic illness." The stress of dealing with all that is involved with MS can cause a situational depression. Finally, many of the medications used in treating MS and its symptoms cause depression as a side effect. The first cause is the most important to understand.
DEPRESSION IS A PRIMARY EFFECT OF MS
The damage to the brain in Multiple Sclerosis often causes depression, just as directly as it causes optic neuritis or weakness. How this happens is not completely understood. Many researchers believe that the overall slowing of nerve conductions in the brain is mostly responsible for the creation of depression. We know it isn't just having a serious and incurable disease. The incidence of depression in MS is higher than it is in other much more disabling diseases or even fatal diseases like ALS.
Even in the most well-adjusted person MS can cause major depressive episodes. In people genetically predisposed to depression, with a history of severe depression, it is even more likely that they will be affected by this change in the working of the brain. At all points, the treating physician must be watchful for the development of signs of depression. Suicide is a seriously common side effect of this damage to the workings of the brain. It occurs at least seven times more than in people without MS, including those with other chronic illnesses. Families and friends of people with MS need to know about this problem that is peculiar to this disease. The biggest risk of suicide are in those with social isolation, a family history of mental disease, and who are living alone.
Depression is so much a part of the disease that many experts in the field are advocating counting a previous and recent Major Depressive Episode as one of the Clinical Attacks need for diagnosis in the McDonald Criteria. They are suggesting if a person is being worked up for MS and has had a Major Depressive Episode within the previous 2 years, that episode should be counted as an both the attack and as the clinical lesion (the abnormality on exam).
THE DEPRESSION OF CHRONIC ILLNESS
The second cause of depression in MS is the difficulty with the slowing metabolism of inactivity, chronic pain, chronic fatigue, and chronically not "feeling well." This causes what is called the Depression of Chronic Illness. Some experts would not list this and would say this is part of the next cause, which is situational. Others argue that it occurs too readily in people without a predisposition to depression who have a chronic illness.
THE SITUATIONAL DEPRESSION OF LIVING WITH MS
The third category is the depression caused by living with the disease. It is hard to cope with the many symptoms of this disease, along with the profound effects MS has on one's life. Many people with MS are no longer the person they once were. Their current state just doesn't match the image they have of themselves as a capable, independent and future-filled person. Many lose their careers. This is an expensive disease to have. Not only are the treatments and meds often expensive, but sometimes a person loses their source of income. This is an isolating disease to have. Travel is more difficult and people with MS may become home-bound. This reduces the time that we can spend with family and friends. Social isolation is a potent cause of depression.
This disease is hard on relationships. The spouse may suddenly have a caretaking role shoved upon them that they don't want, are not ready for, or are incapable of handling. Friction can arise over financial problems. The person with MS may feel guilty over this change in roles. The spouse may feel anger at the disease, at the affected loved one, or at the unfairness of it all. There may be intense frustration at not being able to fix it or make things right. We see marriages sometimes break up under the burden of MS.
And a major cause of disruption is the uncertainty of MS. What will the future bring? What will TODAY bring? Can we plan for additional children, for a vacation this year, to go see the folks this weekend? Never feeling as though anything is certain causes many people with MS to feel loss of control over the little and big things in their lives.
con't
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