1437229 tn?1296070020

Has anyone felt this way?

Have any of you become so desperate from the pain and the loss of function that you just want to end it all?  I could  really use some answers from those of you who have been in this same dark place.  Truly.

Thank you.

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620048 tn?1358018235
Hi Beth,  I have felt that way many times. Especially when I get depressed for no really good reason.  It just seems like I can't do this anymore but I wait a day and it will usually pass, the feelings not the situation.

I have said that people should not to give up, there may be a miracle right around the corner.

hugs, meg

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Avatar universal
Yes, but you DO go on and the feeling passes.  If you act on your feelings then you aren't giving yourself a chance to feel better and it's a really selfish thing to do to your loved ones.

Been in that dark place, told my doctor about it, he told me a joke, I laughed, he thought he made me better.  WRONG!!!

I hope you hang in there, you can't get better mentally if youre not around to give it a chance.

Truly feeling your pain.


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739070 tn?1338603402
You are NOT alone. I don't how many people are willing to publicly admit the feelings you are having but I am. I have been there. It s*ucks.

I discussed it with my neuro and he adjusted some meds, sent me to pain mangement and my PCP sent me to a doc who is a chemical genius with a psychiatric background. she was needed to balance all of my 15 meds without killing me.

After introducing herself, the first thing she told me was that with MS your brain chemicals are out of balance so your depression and related feelings are not all connected to a "feeling sorry for yourself" attitude.

She rearranged my meds and voila, the dark shade was lifted. It will never be gone as long as the pain is there 24/7as the pain wears you down. but, there IS help out there.

On one of the Health Pages, Quix (former CL and retired pediatrician with MS) wrote that a new onset or deepening depression is a sign of a RELAPSE. Please keep this in mind and talk to your neuro SOON.

Feel free to PM me with specific questions regarding meds, etc.

Hang in there. there is help and hope. I've been there and came out the other side almost 2 years ago and have manganed to stay in the light with the proper adjustments.

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1437229 tn?1296070020
Thank you, Ren.  Yours so far is the only caring answer.  I do not need to he told that it is selfish or "just be happy" stuff.  I just spent 8 days in a lock-down psyche ward after telling my physical therapist that I was struggling with the thoughts of suicide.  The psychiatrist I was assigned to was is a neurologist who did his residency mainly with MS patients.  He did the same thing with my meds, and in that way I am doing better.

A week before I was released from a 12 day hospital stay with pneumonia, and then my ribs "clamped" down causing doctors to do an infusion of solu-medrol.  I guess that would be considered a flare even though I have Primary-Progressive.  During that stay I had a major meltdown, and was put on Clonapin.  That took all my strength.  That was the first thing I was weened from in the psyche ward.   He said that is the worst thing for an MS patient who needs the strength.

I am still having a very hard time, although I feel stronger physically.  It is not as easy as simply waiting for tomorrow, and everything will be sunshine and roses.

Thank you.

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645800 tn?1466860955
I have felt sorts that way many times. What I mean by that is not to end it all, but to have my legs cut off due to constant pain and difficulty walking.

I have been in constant pain literally for over 20 years. Most of the time I have learned to ignore the pain, but as I'm sure you know it gets too bad to ignore all the time. It is at these times that I truly wish I could have my legs cut off as I'm sure that phantom pains couldn't be as bad as the pain I'm in.

It wasn't until a few of months ago that I finally got one of my doctors to give me a medicine that actually works on the pain. I only take it when the pain gets really bad so that I won't build up a tolerance to it and keep needing more and more.  But so far it seems to be doing the trick for me.

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667078 tn?1316000935
I went and found a therapist who deals in chronic disease when I was diagnosed with MS.. She gets it. Mostly I procrastinate if I feel like throwing in the towel. I say I will do it in  a couple of days not today and it it is always today. Mostly I just get mad and have no one to take it out on except myself which is not helpful. I write letters I do not send  to people and situations I have no control over that helps. The key is never sending them. It is all about powerlessness.

Now I am real mad at a cancer clinic which came a day away from killing me through neglect a month ago. There is nothing I can really do to these idiots but I am super mad so I write lots of letters to the doctor I never send. At least I get my anger out. It only really hurts me getting this mad since I have to get upset. This clinic does not care they get paid the big bucks either way.

Most times I am just happy to be alive since I am so sick and it could all be over tomorrow. Terminal illness puts a different spin on things.  MS even looks good when you have the cancer I have and it could be over tomorrow whether you want it to be or not. I hate pain but I kinda like being a live when that choice is not my own. I certainly have a bad situation with Progressive MS and two really bad cancers at 49 years of old.
MS used to seem so bad but not being able to eat at all or drink water is really bad. I am afraid if I go to sleep I will not wake up at all. That is pretty final. It changes your whole way of thinking. I have had MS for 47 years and now two kinds of cancer. I have to lose more and more to surgery and chemo  and it really is no fun and I have no guarantees over a few months whether I will be here. Plus I have bills mounting.

Some days are good. The Dalmatian Club heard about me and my deaf dalmatian Service Dog and asked our family to join today.  It was super hot and I felt weak but my husband drove me to the state fairgrounds where they have the dog shows this week end in the heat. It was nice to be asked. They even offered us another Dalmatian. which we would love but can't have right now. A couple of friends called to say high. I stayed in bed and listened to music.

I concentrate on the good moments. I try to not dwell on the bad. Everyday something good happens like making new friends with the dalmatian folks. sometimes it is just laughing at something.

Take care.

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987762 tn?1331027953
You truely are not alone!

I'm one of those love or hate them happy people, I always see the good in anything and everything, an eternal optimist. Yeah i know, irritating isn't it but the thing is, I have still had these thoughts. I wouldn't say in desperation for it all to end though, for me when it happens, i'm incredibly calm and logical and coming out of a relapse. I really wouldnt ever act on these thoughts, i'm not exactly suicidal, its more along the lines that i wouldn't do anything to save my self, had enough of fighting and to be honest, to not wake up would make it all so much easier on everyone, me probably the most.

What concerns me the most when this happens, is that i am emotionless and i hardly recognise that this is me and not the discarding of a faulty toaster that i'm analysing and debating in my head. I do have family members who've got mental health issues, i've been on the receiving end of way too many conversations and the language is quite alarming, it really feels like your talking someone off the ledge.

Emotions are overwhelmingly powerful, fueling their desperate thoughts, there is no rational behind their idealisation. Out of control desperate emotions are driving the direction their thoughts are taking but when you challenge and effectively cut off the emotional fuel and emotional calm takes over, those thoughts get derailed and ultimately the fire goes out.

Me, there is no emotional fuel, just cool calm logical thoughts that i'm ready, i'm ready for it to end, to not take more of me and if i had the choice in those moments, i'd choose to leave this life before i'm trapped. I dont see that way of thinking as being something that can be fixed, medication and or therapy targets emotional instability, and with me thats not actaully the problem. What it cant fix or help change is the truth of my reality, I'm resigned to kowing what it will all happen again and the tomorrows of whats coming, and i dont think anyone would be in a right frame of mind, if they didn't want it all to stop!

So how are you doing?!


[This is a plea to anyone who is dealing with a roller coster of emotions, as a child, wife and mother of people I love battling this. I know, really really know that even in your darkest moments, the people you love are also going through this with you on some level too. Please please dont ignore these feelings, be brave, be proactive and ask for some help, because there is help available if you find your courage, please speak up!]      
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1337734 tn?1336234591
Hi Beth,

As you have heard you definately have a lot of company dealing with these depressing feelings. There are many times my emotions roll between frustaration, anger, feelings of no self worth and rock bottom depression. These are the hardest times to endure.

During these times I think back on times when my health was at its lowest point and how much I have recovered. Obviously, I am still not in good shape, but I have been much worse and am still standing! I have been fighting this battle for  30 years. I truly is hard to see the light during a relapse.

I have discovered that the wrong medication or dosage has relly
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1337734 tn?1336234591
Sorry, I always hit the wrong tab on my iPad....the dosage has really messed up my emotions. I recently went through a huge bout of depression. With some tweaks to my meds I began to feel much better.

I know that you are feeling so low. I truly hope you discuss this with your doctor. It is not just in your head. Hopefully you will find some true relief soon!

Best wishes,
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Avatar universal
I know someone who recently ended their life.  His family is devastated. They can't understand, they live with guilt everyday, it has broken up a long-standing marriage, the remaining siblings are in emotional turmoil and are also burdened with an unstable home life now......so I'm not going to apologize for saying it's selfish, the plain truth is that it IS selfish.

I also understand that when you are in that black place that it's hard to consider the impact on other people.... Been there, done that. Tried to die myself, but it does pass, either with professional help or with the passage  of time.

I'm not an eternal optimist and I have been cursed with a very acute perception of reality. The reality is that I'm sick, I'm tired, I'm never going to get better, and because I have a different diagnosis to everyone here, I KNOW I'm dying
and it won't be nice.  All I can do is take one day at a time, one hour at a time, one minute at a time and eventually they add up to living a life.

I didn't intend to distress you by saying that suicide is selfish, you don't need criticism at this time as well, but, the fact is that suicide does impact your loved ones and if this is the string that makes you hang in there it can only
be a good thing.

I am genuinely feeling for you and hope you get the help you need.


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198419 tn?1360242356
Hi Maestro,

Hey there,
I cannot say that I've been that low over my battle with MS thankfully, however, have had pain  where I felt like it just didn't matter if I were around or not.  
I've gone beyond that now, and it was only by a combo of medicine, procedures, and faith that brought me through.

I hope someone helps you find your combo, Beth because surely you need relief with the pain 1st so you can indeed 'feel' the better moments in your days. This I very much understand :)
Thinking of you,
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382218 tn?1341181487
I saw this post a few days ago and wanted to respond right away but recognized I needed to cool off first.  After reading my response, some of you may think I didn't cool off at all, but trust me, I did.

First off, to Beth - although I have not been to the dark place you describe, I did want to respond to your post.  I'm sorry that your physical pain is so severe and that this has been so tough for you that it has led you to this dark place.  Clearly this is not an easy time for you.  Although I do have physical pain and have every day since a particular relapse in 2008 caused significant residual and apparently permanent damage, it is manageable.  Nights can be tough, being awakened by the abnormal and uncomfortable sensations.  But no, as yet, it's not so severe that I have had to face such questions myself. I'm sorry that this is where you are at, and it is absolutely understandable to me.  You are seeking empathy and support, and I'm glad to see that you received that from many of the caring members here.

To Chirley - I will be direct, as you were.  Your comments angered me.  I didn't respond to them immediately because I knew I needed to step back and consider exactly why I had such a visceral reaction.  I am glad I waited because I didn't want to turn this thread into a fight.  That's not our tradition here as I'm sure you've noticed.  

That said, your assertion that suicide is selfish reflects a lack of sensitivity and recognition that there is a time and place to express certain opinions, and this thread was not the time for you to express this particular opinion.  Maestro was seeking comfort, not a dogmatic lecture. Telling her that you happen to think suicide is selfish does not help her.  And when she let you know this, you reiterated it.  

Further, your strong opinion reflects a major lack of insight into the complexities at play when one is so desperate that they would contemplate ending their own life.  I understand there are many who would agree with you.  I vehemently do not.  I think its disrespectful and frankly, ignorant.

When one is faced with excruciating pain that is chronic and unrelenting, when every possible medication and procedure has been tried to no avail, it is an absolutely normal response to an extremely abnormal situation.  When we feel pain, we want it to stop. When it's off the charts and there's no end in sight, it would be surprising not to consider anything in one's power to make it stop.  Further, severe chronic pain significantly alters one's thought processes, mood and judgment.  Lack of sleep associated with severe chronic pain further exacerbates this serious problem.  It becomes a relentless vicious cycle.  To judge someone in this condition for being selfish for a decision they may contemplate or sadly, follow through on, is in no uncertain terms, wrong.

A personal anecdote: my best friend took her own life at the age of 20.  Last week would have been her 44th birthday.  I was absolutely devastated.  This was a smart, funny, loving and beautiful girl who got straight A's, played tennis, rowed competively, and loved her family and her friends dearly.  She wanted to become a doctor.  I was truly in shock when she died.  For years the family concealed her from her friends that her death was by suicide.  They held a private funeral before even announcing her death. It was only years later that I learned that she took her life, and discovered what led her to her dark place, and it helped me to understand.  She was assaulted by a relative by marriage the previous year.  No one knew about this until she disclosed this fact in her suicide note, which was not shared with me until years later.  Her assailant was someone she loved and trusted, her sister's husband and the father of her beloved neices.  She became severely depressed but managed to conceal this from all of us.  She blamed herself for what happened, and could not find a way to forgive herself.  I have experienced many difficult emotions about this, and still do, but NEVER once did it occur to me that her act was a selfish one.  It was an act committed out of severe psychic pain and anguish borne out of a violent and traumatic assault from which she just could not recover.  It was most certainly NOT selfish.

My hope is that anyone suffering from such pain would seek help, first to address with the disordered thinking cause by mental and/or physical illness, and then to get the support from loved ones and professionals to find a way forward.  To simply lecture one about their selfishness, to make them feel guilty for contemplating such an extreme act, only perpetuates the stigma about suicide which prohibits the suffering from seeking help in the first place.
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382218 tn?1341181487
I wanted to share an excerpt from a beautiful, insightful blog I found on this very topic, authored by a woman simply identified as Miriam:


What You’re Really Saying When You Say that Suicide is “Selfish”

“Selfish” has to be one of the most common adjectives people think of when thinking about suicide. Those of us who are involved in mental health advocacy could probably rant at you for hours about how this word perpetuates the stigma that mental illness and suicide carry in our society, how useless and counterproductive it is to accuse a suicidal person of being “selfish,” and so on. In fact, if you get nothing else out of this post, I hope you reconsider using that word to describe suicide if you’ve done so before.

But I can understand where this sentiment comes from. While everyone loses loved ones at some point in their lives, relatively few people experience suicidality first-hand. For this reason, people understand the latter situation much less than the former. Faced with the thought that someone you love might kill themselves and put you through all the resulting grief just because of some inner turmoil that you can’t see or understand, it makes sense that you might feel that suicide is selfish.

At the same time, though, conceptualizing suicide as a “selfish act” sends the message that people somehow “owe it” to their loved ones to stay alive despite immense emotional pain. When you say that suicide is “selfish,” you’re implying–even if you don’t mean to–that the individual’s pain, as well as their potential to improve, isn’t what matters. What matters is how they’ll make the people around them feel.

I don’t mean to discount the grief that people feel when someone they love commits suicide–that’s real, valid, and deserves attention. And, obviously, I believe that people should not commit suicide. But I believe that because I also believe that people can recover from the pain that’s causing them to consider suicide, not because they owe it to others to live.

What all of this comes down to is that most people do not (and perhaps cannot) understand what actually goes through a suicidal person’s mind. Maybe they assume that suicidal people are just sad the way all of us sometimes get sad, except maybe a bit more so.  It would indeed be rather selfish to put your friends and family through so much pain just because you felt sad one day.

But that’s not how suicide works.

The way I see it, the tragedy of suicide is not (or is not only) the fact that an individual’s suicide also hurts others. Rather, it’s that the individual could have found a way to heal, be happy, and live out the rest of his or her life. Calling suicide a “selfish” thing to do erases that latter tragedy and implies that our primary purpose in life is not to create a meaningful and worthwhile life for ourselves, but to keep our friends and family happy at all costs.

Our first priority should be to convince those who want to take their own lives that those lives are intrinsically valuable and should be preserved for their own sake. Only when they’ve accepted that premise can they even begin to think clearly about their obligations and interactions with other people.

Telling a suicidal person that suicide is “selfish” only reinforces the guilt they already feel. People should choose to live because their lives feel worth living to them, not out of a sense of obligation towards others.
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987762 tn?1331027953
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645390 tn?1338555377
DB...perfect. Thank you so much, well said my friend.

I hope Beth reads this.  XO
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1466984 tn?1310560608
Wow DB!  What an amazing post.  So compassionate and thoughtful and insightful.  I hope that many read this, and learn about the depth and pain involved with someone who is in that dark place. Thank you DB for taking the time to help many.

Beth - I hope the darkness has lifted for you a bit and you are finding your way back to hope.
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667078 tn?1316000935
Get to a good pain specialist. I go to private one not associated with a big Univiesity clinic and they have been great. He was a Primary care who went back into psychiatry but all he does is pain. His PA is the best. They spend (0 minutes with me a month. I had a lot of pain but now it is controlled and they tweak things all the time. They treat me like a person. You deserve help.

P.S. I have always been depressed it is part of my MS. I can't treat it with pills.

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1045086 tn?1332126422
There have been days in my life I was prepared to call my last - some to escape physical pain and others to end emotional pain.

Some days I acknowledged that relieving my pain through suicide meant the lives of my children and parents would be filled with a different kind of pain and that was enough to stop my hand.

At least once I asked a friend to dispose of the "means" I had reserved to make my exit.  I hadn't changed my mind.  In fact, I was more fearful than ever that I was going to give in to the increasingly common impulsive thoughts.  Even in suicide I wanted to be in control.  It might be funny except for the near different outcome.

At that point I realized I didn't want to die.  I wanted to live... WITHOUT pain.  I started putting the little energy I could muster into finding out if that was possible.  I found out many possibilities live between suffering in silence and suicide.  Medication and meditation helped.  It was a slow process.  Eventually I decided to take suicide off my table - forever.  It's not an option for me anymore.

There are no absolutes about suicide.
No absolutes about prevention.
No absolutes about detection.
No absolutes about treatment.
No absolutes for witnesses.
No absolutes for survivors.

But there is absolutely no end to the things that can be trialed to control pain and improve quality of life.

That's (briefly) my experience getting out of the dark place.  I don't have answers but you asked others who have been there to share.  Perhaps the sharing can do something to help you find your own way.  I do know that silence is never the answer.

Beth, I'm glad you found the strength or trust or fear (whatever it was) that enabled you to speak your desperation to your physical therapist.  I'm thankful she did the right thing to bring you the help you needed.  

I'm sorry we haven't all had the perfect thoughts or words to help you.  I'm grateful one of us did.  I look forward to hearing from you again.
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