MS & Urinary problems

[beth0277]

Hi everyone. I am currently waiting for an MRI for possible MS but I have a question. The main reason I am going is because of urinary problems (I am going because I want to, not because my doctor has been overly concerned). I had recurrent UTI's for a while (which have since subsided) and when I went to the Urologist they saw that I was retaining about 115 cc's of urine. They weren't too worried and put me on long term treatment for UTI's (even though I didn't have one at the time). I went back a month later and my post void residual was only 18 cc's. Over the next few months, because of my anxiety, I kept going back for post void residuals and my next 3 readings were 46, 18 and 56. My Urologist basically said I had no problem and brushed me off.

At times I feel like I do not have a strong sensation to pee, especially in the mornings. Sometimes my stream is stronger than others and sometimes I feel like I don't empty completely (will feel like I do, but feel like I have to go again a few minutes later). I know my anxiety has a lot to do with this. Sometimes my bladder feels completely normal.

At any rate, I went to the Urologist again a month or so ago and my PVR was 94, which scared me to death. They said anything under 100 is okay, but I was concerned because it is so much higher than before. Since then, I have been back and my PVR's had been 90 and 96, though at the ER recently they said it was 117 but she had a hard time with the machine so I don't know how accurate it was.

For those of you with MS and urinary problems, do you find that sometimes you would have no issues at all and then sometimes you do? This has all been over a span of 5 months. I don't know if I am just letting my anxiety get the best of me.

I don't understand why my PVR's are sometimes so low and sometimes higher. I do get ovarian cysts so I don't know if that could have an effect on it. I thought that if you had MS, you would have pretty consistent PVR's (If they were going to be high), but I really don't know.

My Urologist isn't too suspicious that I have a urinary issue but agreed to do urodynamic testing anyway. I am a very anxious person and have convinced myself 100% that I have MS. I wonder if that makes me have these urinary symptoms at times.

Any input?

[kwarendorf]

I have MS and I have bladder issues. I do not always fully empty my bladder. I often have difficulty initiating and or maintaining the stream. I know that my urinary issues are neurological and not urological. I have no idea what my PVR numbers are.

I take .8mg Flomax every day and it helps significantly. Even with the Flomax some days are better than others. It's annoying at times, but in the grand scheme of things it's not my biggest MS concern. If you have other supporting diagnostics, such as Lisa mentioned (MRI w/lesions, O-bands in CSF) then I would seek the counsel of an MS specialist.

Just one man's opinion.

Kyle

[beth0277]

Thanks lulu. I am struggling with this, as I am sure you can tell.

[Lulu54]

if this were neurological, the numbers would be much higher because the signal to void is erroded (and sometimes even missing).  Often voiding is only because the bladder is so full it has to empty and not because of signals to do so.

Your numbers are absolutely fine and it is common to not empty below that 100cc mark.  I hope you can take our answers and put this question to rest.

best,
Lulu

[beth0277]

For any of you that have urinary problems - do they normally come and go or are they pretty constant? I ask because sometimes my PVR will be 90an and the next day it will be 50. I have been told both of these numbers are fine but I worry so much about ms. I just didn't know if it would stay higher if my problems are neurological.

[LisaJF]

Welcome to the forums.

In my opinion, the most compelling issue that I see you have is the last statement you had made in your first post, "I am a very ANXIOUS person and have CONVINCED myself 100% that I HAVE MS."  and another prior to the aforementioned "Over the next few months, because of my ANXIETY, I kept going back for post void residuals....."

In addition to this self-diagnosing label you have given yourself, you are at the doctors office and ER a LOT which would raise a red flag to the medical professionals that you may suffer not from a progressive demyelinating disease, but from somatoform or psychogenic disorder.

First rule of thumb is not to convince yourself that you have a progressive demyelinating disease without any other diagnostic evidence that would indicate otherwise (ie T2 lesions or active MS lesions on a MRI of the brain and/or spine; 0-bands present in your cerebral spinal fluid from a lumbar puncture; optic disc thinning; etc.)  

You're getting yourself unnecessarily worked up and doing yourself a disservice.  



I wish you the best

Lisa

[beth0277]

Thank you both for your responses. Lulu-do you find that your bladder issues are pretty consistent or do you have normal days and bad days? I ask because it seems like I have times when I feel like I am not emptying my bladder as well or have the same sensation but many days I feel completely normal. I feel like my symptoms seem to coincide with my menstrual cycle to some degree so I don't know if my ovarian cysts or endometriosis could be contributing. I just didn't know if ms related problems would be non existent one day and back a week later.

[Lulu54]

Hi Beth, what you are describing here doesn't sound like MS to me, but I am no doctor.  Your bladder problems also don't sound particularly serious. I do have a neurogenic bladder as some others here do - a PVR for us is 300, 450, even as much as 700 or more.  The bladder just doesn't empty on its own the way it should.  

I would love to have your results -that amount of PVR is not damaging to the kidneys and is considered in the normal range.


I hope you can relax about these worries - I do see from your profile that you are a top answerer in the Anxiety forum, and perhaps this is making your concerns worse?  

Pleas come back and let us know if you have other questions about MS that we might help you with to quiet your fears.

be well,
Lulu

[Dagun]

Hi Beth, I am one of the limbolanders hanging around here. I do have many and widespred symptoms, most of them mild though, and my neuro can´t diagnoze me because, I am not having the "typical order" of symptoms and the MRI taken in June 2011 did not show much.

I went to a urologist a week ago, to tell him about my problems with the bladder. He told me that he had never heard of bladder problems so early in a ms symptoms story. Even though my bladder problems did not start until a year after my neuro symptoms started. So it is not very likely that you would have ms just because of this. Expecially when you also have anxiety.

Also it does not sound to me much as a ms symptoms, like you describe it. Many peoble have problems with UTI not just MS-ers. I would not worry to much, just take care and hopefully you´ll be ok if you relax so the anxiety does not play trix on you.(sorry about my English)

My best,
Dagun