Aa
Thought that I was gonna die this morning...really scared!
Hey all...hope your Christmas preps are going well.
I went to the dentist yesterday and had a root canal done and it took about 3 hours. I got home about 5:00 pm and cleaned up and laid down and had a nap for about an hour. Then I was up until around midnight and went to bed but had a lot of trouble getting to sleep.
About 4:00 a.m. I was finally feeling myself drop off to sleep while lying on my side and all of a sudden I COULDN'T BREATHE! I had to really struggle to get a breath in and it felt as though someone was slowly pushing a cork into my windpipe and I had to put all my concentration into getting a breath of air in and all of a sudden I was able to gasp in a breath! This happened about 3 times and I was REALLY SCARED!! It felt as though if I continued to lay down I would certainly die in my sleep. I got up finally and used my Ventolin inhaler and after about an hour I was able to relax enough to lie down and I did finally fall into a fitfull sleep and slept for 8 hours.
I have CÖPD and Asthma but this was something I have never dealt with before and I have had asthma pretty much all my life. I looked up COPD and this doesn't seem to be a symptom of COPD either! I did look up sleep apnea and apparently there is a type of sleep apnea that can be caused by a neurological disorder so this is REALLY getting scary!
Has anyone had a problem like this or does anyone know anything about the possible link to MS? I am really scared and wonder if I will sleep comfortably again!!! Is this something I should make my gp or neuro aware of before Christmas do you think? Any input would be appreciated...I know this was not the asthma or the COPD so it has to be something else...any ideas or information...I am so scared here!
Hugs,
Rena
I went to the dentist yesterday and had a root canal done and it took about 3 hours. I got home about 5:00 pm and cleaned up and laid down and had a nap for about an hour. Then I was up until around midnight and went to bed but had a lot of trouble getting to sleep.
About 4:00 a.m. I was finally feeling myself drop off to sleep while lying on my side and all of a sudden I COULDN'T BREATHE! I had to really struggle to get a breath in and it felt as though someone was slowly pushing a cork into my windpipe and I had to put all my concentration into getting a breath of air in and all of a sudden I was able to gasp in a breath! This happened about 3 times and I was REALLY SCARED!! It felt as though if I continued to lay down I would certainly die in my sleep. I got up finally and used my Ventolin inhaler and after about an hour I was able to relax enough to lie down and I did finally fall into a fitfull sleep and slept for 8 hours.
I have CÖPD and Asthma but this was something I have never dealt with before and I have had asthma pretty much all my life. I looked up COPD and this doesn't seem to be a symptom of COPD either! I did look up sleep apnea and apparently there is a type of sleep apnea that can be caused by a neurological disorder so this is REALLY getting scary!
Has anyone had a problem like this or does anyone know anything about the possible link to MS? I am really scared and wonder if I will sleep comfortably again!!! Is this something I should make my gp or neuro aware of before Christmas do you think? Any input would be appreciated...I know this was not the asthma or the COPD so it has to be something else...any ideas or information...I am so scared here!
Hugs,
Rena
I am seeing my gp this afternoon and I don't know if she will get mad or what but I don't care. I found this article and it explains completely why my voice is so horrible and the episodes of being unable to inhale that I have been dealing with. She keeps insisting that it's my inhalers but I think she is way off base here. If she does nothing I will go to my neurologist as he did mention that my voice problems could be MS related. I hope this will end my search for help with my voice anyway! It also might stop these terrifying incidents in which I simply can't breathe! I will let you know what happens!
Hugs,
Rena
Paradoxical Vocal Fold Motion (PVFM)
Other names
vocal cord dysfunction (VCD)
stridor
laryngospasm
paradoxical vocal cord motion (PVCM)
laryngeal dyskinesia
PVFM is commonly seen in young athletes who develop symptoms during athletic exertion. These athletes may be incorrectly diagnosed with exercise-induced asthma.
The disorder is also common in adults. Symptoms often cause awakening in the middle of the night, but they may occur at any time. These symptoms may be triggered by eating or drinking, especially something sour.
Symptoms
Some of the common symptoms of PVFM are:
sudden inability to inhale
a sensation of shortness of breath, choking, strangling
gasping sound when inhaling
Cause
When symptoms occur during the night, the cause is nearly always related to GERD (Gastroesophageal Reflux Disorder). In this case, acid from the stomach refluxes back up the esophagus and spills over onto the larynx (see About the Voice), irritating the vocal folds (also called vocal cords; see the explanation of this terminology) and causing them to twinge or spasm. This feels like a choking sensation. When the individual attempts to inhale forcefully, the vocal folds are actually sucked together, preventing inhalation. This causes more forceful inhalation and creates a vicious cycle that can be very frightening to the individual. The vicious cycle is such that the vocal folds may relax slightly during exhalation, but come together during inhalation. Thus, the disorder is called Paradoxical Vocal Fold Motion because of this backwards movement of the vocal folds. The gasping sound on inhalation is known as inhalatory stridor.
The scenario is similar if you are a young athlete. The individual begins panting and gasping for air, trying to inhale more forcefully, and the vocal folds are sucked together. The same frightening cycle ensues. It may also happen when the athlete chokes slightly on his or her own saliva, especially when the throat becomes very dry from panting.
In some cases, an individual with PVFM is able to gain control of his or her own breathing, and the episode ends. In other cases, he or she needs to be seen in an emergency room. In either case, the experience can be so alarming that if the conditions present themselves again, the same set of responses is triggered by the anxiety. Moreover, it is generally not helpful to suggest to an individual who cannot breathe that they should "just relax."
Treatment
Treatment for reflux is an important component of treating most cases of PVFM. This usually involves prescribing anti-reflux medications to reduce the irritation. Also, you may be counseled about dietary precautions to alleviate GERD. Relief may occur in days, or may take a month more.
In the Lions Voice Clinic, breathing training is given so that the individual knows how to reverse the paradoxical motion of the vocal folds and breathe easily again. Most often, the breathing training includes flexible endoscopy. This enables you to observe the motion of the vocal folds while doing the various maneuvers learned in training. Watching yourself control your own breathing is generally very reassuring, and even if the laryngospasms continue for a time, the full-blown paradoxical episodes usually end within a few weeks.
In the case of an athlete, particularly a young athlete, care is taken to differentiate between a pulmonological (lung) problem such as asthma, and PVFM. Evaluation is done jointly with the Department of Pulmonology or Pediatric Pulmonology. Often, we use a treadmill to simulate athletic exertion, and then, an endoscopic exam is done immediately after to confirm the occurrence of PVFM during exertion. Breathing training is done as previously described, and may include work on the treadmill to train special breathing techniques for athletic exertion. Because of the anxiety associated with this disorder, the young person and his or her parents are counseled carefully and sensitively.
Hugs,
Rena
Paradoxical Vocal Fold Motion (PVFM)
Other names
vocal cord dysfunction (VCD)
stridor
laryngospasm
paradoxical vocal cord motion (PVCM)
laryngeal dyskinesia
PVFM is commonly seen in young athletes who develop symptoms during athletic exertion. These athletes may be incorrectly diagnosed with exercise-induced asthma.
The disorder is also common in adults. Symptoms often cause awakening in the middle of the night, but they may occur at any time. These symptoms may be triggered by eating or drinking, especially something sour.
Symptoms
Some of the common symptoms of PVFM are:
sudden inability to inhale
a sensation of shortness of breath, choking, strangling
gasping sound when inhaling
Cause
When symptoms occur during the night, the cause is nearly always related to GERD (Gastroesophageal Reflux Disorder). In this case, acid from the stomach refluxes back up the esophagus and spills over onto the larynx (see About the Voice), irritating the vocal folds (also called vocal cords; see the explanation of this terminology) and causing them to twinge or spasm. This feels like a choking sensation. When the individual attempts to inhale forcefully, the vocal folds are actually sucked together, preventing inhalation. This causes more forceful inhalation and creates a vicious cycle that can be very frightening to the individual. The vicious cycle is such that the vocal folds may relax slightly during exhalation, but come together during inhalation. Thus, the disorder is called Paradoxical Vocal Fold Motion because of this backwards movement of the vocal folds. The gasping sound on inhalation is known as inhalatory stridor.
The scenario is similar if you are a young athlete. The individual begins panting and gasping for air, trying to inhale more forcefully, and the vocal folds are sucked together. The same frightening cycle ensues. It may also happen when the athlete chokes slightly on his or her own saliva, especially when the throat becomes very dry from panting.
In some cases, an individual with PVFM is able to gain control of his or her own breathing, and the episode ends. In other cases, he or she needs to be seen in an emergency room. In either case, the experience can be so alarming that if the conditions present themselves again, the same set of responses is triggered by the anxiety. Moreover, it is generally not helpful to suggest to an individual who cannot breathe that they should "just relax."
Treatment
Treatment for reflux is an important component of treating most cases of PVFM. This usually involves prescribing anti-reflux medications to reduce the irritation. Also, you may be counseled about dietary precautions to alleviate GERD. Relief may occur in days, or may take a month more.
In the Lions Voice Clinic, breathing training is given so that the individual knows how to reverse the paradoxical motion of the vocal folds and breathe easily again. Most often, the breathing training includes flexible endoscopy. This enables you to observe the motion of the vocal folds while doing the various maneuvers learned in training. Watching yourself control your own breathing is generally very reassuring, and even if the laryngospasms continue for a time, the full-blown paradoxical episodes usually end within a few weeks.
In the case of an athlete, particularly a young athlete, care is taken to differentiate between a pulmonological (lung) problem such as asthma, and PVFM. Evaluation is done jointly with the Department of Pulmonology or Pediatric Pulmonology. Often, we use a treadmill to simulate athletic exertion, and then, an endoscopic exam is done immediately after to confirm the occurrence of PVFM during exertion. Breathing training is done as previously described, and may include work on the treadmill to train special breathing techniques for athletic exertion. Because of the anxiety associated with this disorder, the young person and his or her parents are counseled carefully and sensitively.
yes - hope you are fine! i had a time where i could breath- just -very little- air happened like twice, - never looked into it. but that was scaryy -i cant imagine not breathing-
you take care hugs!! tick
you take care hugs!! tick
This sounds like it could have been a plug of mucus blocking your airway and keeping air from moving in either direction. You don't have to be aware of having excess mucus production for this to happen. This could happen easily after a dental procedure or when a person has lung disease. But maybe that not it. There are multiple potential causes when things like this happen.
It's impossible for any of us here to know what is going on. It might be just as hard for a doctor who doesn't get to see it as it happens. I'm glad you got through that incident and certainly hope it isn't repeated. But I would suggest you have a method of contacting rescue close by until you can be evaluated by your doctor.
I'd be careful about taking any medications that knock you out too much. Otherwise, an oxygen craving brain will usually awaken it's owner quickly when necessary. You might try getting yourself well hydrated with water and humidified air. It could help and is unlikely to hurt.
Good luck and relax if you can.
Mary
It's impossible for any of us here to know what is going on. It might be just as hard for a doctor who doesn't get to see it as it happens. I'm glad you got through that incident and certainly hope it isn't repeated. But I would suggest you have a method of contacting rescue close by until you can be evaluated by your doctor.
I'd be careful about taking any medications that knock you out too much. Otherwise, an oxygen craving brain will usually awaken it's owner quickly when necessary. You might try getting yourself well hydrated with water and humidified air. It could help and is unlikely to hurt.
Good luck and relax if you can.
Mary
Opps yes...and my husband is so grateful...My voice is weak. It tires me to talk. I think it is because the muscles are weak and not able to do their job.
I have come to check nearly every hour or two...hoping to hear from you. The first time it happened to me it woke me from my sleep. Then it happened again later in the day...I was sitting in my chair just reading. The meds used to treat asthma and COPD do little if nothing for the problem. From what my neuro told me, it is the diaphragm that causes the problem. I stopped her from telling me more. It upset me from the little I heard. I appear so strong but I am not. A doctor even hinting something like that might happen would be enough for me to be SURE it was happening....Talk about them needing to medicate the anxiety. It would probably take the entire bottle. We agreed that if I couldn't calm it, to go to emergency and not wait.
My husband does know and is aware of what might be but ....I prefer to just stay in the present and not think about it. Besides, there is a possibility that those nerves will heal. I am betting on that happening. (winks). By the way, from the little I did hear, there are procedures to help the diaphragm do the job. I didn't listen to more than that because that gave me hope...So I dunno if it is a dangerous awful thing or easy operation...lol...Hoping it is an easy fix.
Please get to your doctor. I was warned very seriously about the medications and what could and could not be used. I know for a fact that any muscle relaxer will make it much worse. Beware...okay?
My husband does know and is aware of what might be but ....I prefer to just stay in the present and not think about it. Besides, there is a possibility that those nerves will heal. I am betting on that happening. (winks). By the way, from the little I did hear, there are procedures to help the diaphragm do the job. I didn't listen to more than that because that gave me hope...So I dunno if it is a dangerous awful thing or easy operation...lol...Hoping it is an easy fix.
Please get to your doctor. I was warned very seriously about the medications and what could and could not be used. I know for a fact that any muscle relaxer will make it much worse. Beware...okay?
Sorry about that ladies! I am still here and still alive and kicking but still feeling kind of crappy. I haven't had another incident like I did yesterday morning though which is a good thing!
Shell...it was like someone had a cork with a string on it and I could not get ANY air in and had to really work at inhaling and it was like someone suddenly pulled the cork and I could gasp in air...then I could breath fine again until I laid down again and was just about asleep when it happened the same way again. This happened three times.
It isn't like Asthma or Bronchitis or anything I have dealt with before. I literally could NOT GET ANY AIR IN ....not even a whisper...the cork was stuck in hard and there was no air getting in OR out unlike asthma or bronchitis. I really thought I might die...I felt like I was drowning!
Sumana...I hate hearing that someone else is feeling this but I think you know what I am trying to say. I am on Spireva and Symbicort and Ventolin but I don't think they helped any. Do you have problems with your voice? My voice is terrible and has been for quite a while. It is as though something is holding my air back when I am trying to speak. I can breathe just fine but when I talk it is a chore to push the words out. Do you have this happen like during the day or just when you are lying down? It worries me because I was safely in bed but if I was driving I know I would cause an accident if it happened.
I probably should have gone to the doc but of course I couldn't get an appointment before Christmas so I will wait until after. If it happens again I will go to ER but I am hoping it was a once only thing. My dentist who had done a root canal on me the day before the "incident" called me last night to see how I was feeling because it took 3 hours to do the root canal and was a nasty one. I asked her about whether the freezing might have caused my problem and she said she doubted it since it was 12 hours between the freezing and the problem. Made sense to me!
Anyway, I sure appreciate all your responses...I have to say that I have had a lot of problems with this stupid disease but if this is related to my MS, I am just gonna have a bloody fit!!! I think enough is enough already and I am so tired of it all. I guess we can all say that though. I guess I will just sit back and enjoy Christmas and worry about it next year|!! Let's hope that this stupid disease doesn't affect any of us over the holidays!!
Lots of Hugs,
Rena
Shell...it was like someone had a cork with a string on it and I could not get ANY air in and had to really work at inhaling and it was like someone suddenly pulled the cork and I could gasp in air...then I could breath fine again until I laid down again and was just about asleep when it happened the same way again. This happened three times.
It isn't like Asthma or Bronchitis or anything I have dealt with before. I literally could NOT GET ANY AIR IN ....not even a whisper...the cork was stuck in hard and there was no air getting in OR out unlike asthma or bronchitis. I really thought I might die...I felt like I was drowning!
Sumana...I hate hearing that someone else is feeling this but I think you know what I am trying to say. I am on Spireva and Symbicort and Ventolin but I don't think they helped any. Do you have problems with your voice? My voice is terrible and has been for quite a while. It is as though something is holding my air back when I am trying to speak. I can breathe just fine but when I talk it is a chore to push the words out. Do you have this happen like during the day or just when you are lying down? It worries me because I was safely in bed but if I was driving I know I would cause an accident if it happened.
I probably should have gone to the doc but of course I couldn't get an appointment before Christmas so I will wait until after. If it happens again I will go to ER but I am hoping it was a once only thing. My dentist who had done a root canal on me the day before the "incident" called me last night to see how I was feeling because it took 3 hours to do the root canal and was a nasty one. I asked her about whether the freezing might have caused my problem and she said she doubted it since it was 12 hours between the freezing and the problem. Made sense to me!
Anyway, I sure appreciate all your responses...I have to say that I have had a lot of problems with this stupid disease but if this is related to my MS, I am just gonna have a bloody fit!!! I think enough is enough already and I am so tired of it all. I guess we can all say that though. I guess I will just sit back and enjoy Christmas and worry about it next year|!! Let's hope that this stupid disease doesn't affect any of us over the holidays!!
Lots of Hugs,
Rena
I worry that Rena may be in the hospital. I know they don't play with it and for sure both her heart and lungs would need to be checked out. Sending strength, Rena, in case my feelings are correct...Maybe they will rush tests because of the holidays...I hope so!!!!
When I have a hard time getting air in my system, the first sign it's going to happen is my face, (nose and cheek area) go bright red. My husband will notice it, and it feel warm to touch my face area.
then I start to feel like I can't get air in my lungs. I use a inhaler and after 30 min or so I feel abit better, I seem to forget to tell the Dr, so I will now add it to my list of symptoms.
I hope you feel better and let your Dr know asap .
it hasn't woke me up, but it seems to happen every few months?
take care and happy holidays
wobbly
then I start to feel like I can't get air in my lungs. I use a inhaler and after 30 min or so I feel abit better, I seem to forget to tell the Dr, so I will now add it to my list of symptoms.
I hope you feel better and let your Dr know asap .
it hasn't woke me up, but it seems to happen every few months?
take care and happy holidays
wobbly
Rena Guuurllllll,
Sounds to me as if could be definitely related to the COPD and asthma. That reminds me of "all" you've said to me about smoking, but this is about you, ahahha I'll keep on track. (just don't want you thinking I don't remember)
How are you today? I'm surprised you fell asleep w/that. Was it that heavy chested feeling, or the inability to expand your lungs for a deep breath one? Do describe....
xoxoxo
shell
Sounds to me as if could be definitely related to the COPD and asthma. That reminds me of "all" you've said to me about smoking, but this is about you, ahahha I'll keep on track. (just don't want you thinking I don't remember)
How are you today? I'm surprised you fell asleep w/that. Was it that heavy chested feeling, or the inability to expand your lungs for a deep breath one? Do describe....
xoxoxo
shell
Dang I wish we had an edit button. Yes, you need to contact your neuro NOW. One of the reasons is they have to be careful of what medications you are using. Muscle relaxers (which you would think would work) can make it worse. Narcotics have to be monitored. In fact, I was told that when given any...it needs to be given in small doses and slowly raised because it can cause havoc with that lesion. So please contact your neuro PRONTO.
Rena, it happens to me and no inhalers don't work. For me, it is due to a lesion on my brain stem. It is frightening. I ran to the emergency room twice and given treatments but they don't last. I was sent to pulmonologist for testing. They ran every test on earth. Between the pulmonologist and my neuro, they both agree it is from that lesion. I don't have asthma. I don't have COPD ...although that is what the pulmonologist will call it for lack of better words. I have no signs of what is considered COPD...No coughing, no wheezing, no rattle .....My neuro has me use Xanax. Unfortunately it takes two and today I know why they work. It knocks me out and when I wake, I have calmed down.
I agree, it is like nothing you have experienced. When I was a very young woman I had pneumonia and had trouble breathing. This is a much different experience. There are signs when it is going to act up. I can't cough. I can't clear my throat. I know when that starts, trouble is brewing. I take one Xanax and wait...if the labored breathing starts, I take another. Then I do sleep but without, I am like you too afraid to put my head down.
Also, my husband I were taught to massage my chest and back. He thumps me hoping to rattle a cough. It helps sometimes. The pulmonologist also put me on Spiriva which is an inhalation thing...like a dry capsule that helps with spasms in the bronchial tubes. I don't know if it helps much but I use it.
You really do need to contact your neuro...However, my neuro has assured me that unless my diaphragm stops moving (and yes, they will test that), I won't stop breathing. It is also like other things that happen with MS. It will go on for a period of time...maybe a few weeks...Maybe a month then stops. Thankfully right now, I am back to no problem.
I am sorry you are experiencing this...truly it is so frightening.
Hugs, Sumana
I agree, it is like nothing you have experienced. When I was a very young woman I had pneumonia and had trouble breathing. This is a much different experience. There are signs when it is going to act up. I can't cough. I can't clear my throat. I know when that starts, trouble is brewing. I take one Xanax and wait...if the labored breathing starts, I take another. Then I do sleep but without, I am like you too afraid to put my head down.
Also, my husband I were taught to massage my chest and back. He thumps me hoping to rattle a cough. It helps sometimes. The pulmonologist also put me on Spiriva which is an inhalation thing...like a dry capsule that helps with spasms in the bronchial tubes. I don't know if it helps much but I use it.
You really do need to contact your neuro...However, my neuro has assured me that unless my diaphragm stops moving (and yes, they will test that), I won't stop breathing. It is also like other things that happen with MS. It will go on for a period of time...maybe a few weeks...Maybe a month then stops. Thankfully right now, I am back to no problem.
I am sorry you are experiencing this...truly it is so frightening.
Hugs, Sumana
Wow... I would definitely call your GP or neuro right away. I don't think I could have gotten back to sleep after that happened! You need to be under observation in either a sleep clinic or hospital.
Did it feel like your windpipe was swollen? Or like your lungs wouldn't work? That is so weird.
Did it feel like your windpipe was swollen? Or like your lungs wouldn't work? That is so weird.
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