Aa
Too many individual dx, all fit in with MS?
Hey Guys and Dolls,
The optic neuritis posts had me checking out causes for my dx eye issues, that sent me off looking into all my dx issues, finding the missing link. Funny but MS was listed over and over again, NO other dx included everything and yet i still dont have a dx of anykind to explain all these (cough) unrelated dx and the subjective sx are not even counted lol.
DX Unilateral optic neuropathy - pale optic disc - early Glaucoma with normal IOP & peripheral vision(?? ON)
DX Unilateral Nystamgus - acquired - horizontal jerk
DX Diplopia - acquired (prior to dx diplopia, remitting blurred vision and intermittant eye pain, ON maybe??)
DX farsighted - L almost normal R significantly affected, normal vision when last tested, unrelated to Glaucoma
DX Photophobia - acquired
DX Fatigue - Hypoglycemia without diagnostic evidence (normal blood gucose levels)
DX Muscle issues:
Torn flexor muscle (?) lower arm muscle off the bone, dx by sx of pain on muscle flex, burn, heat
Intercostal muscle spasms (MS Hug ?)
spasms/cramps
DX IBS
DX UTI's
DX Tremor - Hypoglycemia related (not likely)
DX Clonus - noted by neuro tests but dismissed, MRI reported chronic Ischemic small vessel disease
DX cognitive issues from cognitive assessment: (note dismissed because still within normal range grrrrr)
-45 IQ points
short term memory issues
information issues
attentional issues
DX Romberg's - neuro tests but dismissed, MRI reported chronic ischemic small vessel disease
DX Raynaud's - poor circulation
DX Inflamed veins - including occular but still no known cause, i'm cleared of the usual ones
DX chillblains - auto immune, no RA
DX brain lesions - but named the cause as chronic small vessel disease so all the above is irrelevant (lol)
DX sane - psychological testing cleared for mental health issues
Then i have the subjective sensory issues, like Uhthoff's, tingling spots, hot spots, wet spot etc, not sure where balance and my communications issues go, mentioned by my GP but not an official dx. I do know that the chillblains (dx -16) and vein issues (new 2010) are not a usual MS issue but didn't want to exclude, who knows they may fall under autonomatic functions which then makes them still valid.
Anyway, I thought it interesting to write them all down, I was having a laugh about the odds of all this in one person, ramping up since 2003 and still nothing named, got to find it laughable to look for the lesions and find them, name them something that doesn't cause my sx, so dismiss them in there entirety. Ha the last neuro said he only wanted to know if i was blind, hmmmm are you dx with MS all blind, what a tosser ROFL.
Thoughts anyone!
Cheers...........JJ
The optic neuritis posts had me checking out causes for my dx eye issues, that sent me off looking into all my dx issues, finding the missing link. Funny but MS was listed over and over again, NO other dx included everything and yet i still dont have a dx of anykind to explain all these (cough) unrelated dx and the subjective sx are not even counted lol.
DX Unilateral optic neuropathy - pale optic disc - early Glaucoma with normal IOP & peripheral vision(?? ON)
DX Unilateral Nystamgus - acquired - horizontal jerk
DX Diplopia - acquired (prior to dx diplopia, remitting blurred vision and intermittant eye pain, ON maybe??)
DX farsighted - L almost normal R significantly affected, normal vision when last tested, unrelated to Glaucoma
DX Photophobia - acquired
DX Fatigue - Hypoglycemia without diagnostic evidence (normal blood gucose levels)
DX Muscle issues:
Torn flexor muscle (?) lower arm muscle off the bone, dx by sx of pain on muscle flex, burn, heat
Intercostal muscle spasms (MS Hug ?)
spasms/cramps
DX IBS
DX UTI's
DX Tremor - Hypoglycemia related (not likely)
DX Clonus - noted by neuro tests but dismissed, MRI reported chronic Ischemic small vessel disease
DX cognitive issues from cognitive assessment: (note dismissed because still within normal range grrrrr)
-45 IQ points
short term memory issues
information issues
attentional issues
DX Romberg's - neuro tests but dismissed, MRI reported chronic ischemic small vessel disease
DX Raynaud's - poor circulation
DX Inflamed veins - including occular but still no known cause, i'm cleared of the usual ones
DX chillblains - auto immune, no RA
DX brain lesions - but named the cause as chronic small vessel disease so all the above is irrelevant (lol)
DX sane - psychological testing cleared for mental health issues
Then i have the subjective sensory issues, like Uhthoff's, tingling spots, hot spots, wet spot etc, not sure where balance and my communications issues go, mentioned by my GP but not an official dx. I do know that the chillblains (dx -16) and vein issues (new 2010) are not a usual MS issue but didn't want to exclude, who knows they may fall under autonomatic functions which then makes them still valid.
Anyway, I thought it interesting to write them all down, I was having a laugh about the odds of all this in one person, ramping up since 2003 and still nothing named, got to find it laughable to look for the lesions and find them, name them something that doesn't cause my sx, so dismiss them in there entirety. Ha the last neuro said he only wanted to know if i was blind, hmmmm are you dx with MS all blind, what a tosser ROFL.
Thoughts anyone!
Cheers...........JJ
4. Onset in childhood or over age 50 - Ahhhh, they call 5% "rare". Where else in the world is 1 in 20 considered rare???
Correction: 3% to5% have early onset - before age 18 - and 5% have Late Onset - after age 50. So, this "flag" indicates that 8 to 10% of the MS population is "rare". Really?
Correction: 3% to5% have early onset - before age 18 - and 5% have Late Onset - after age 50. So, this "flag" indicates that 8 to 10% of the MS population is "rare". Really?
I never meant to agree with their "it's all in your head mentality." As far as the Mimics and Things mistaken for MS, I can buy some of that. I already had the doc tell me it's all in my head and my psychiatrist told him , "No, you better look closer."
Bob
Bob
" Studies have shown that when experienced clinicians conclude (after appropriate investigations) that a patient’s symptoms are “nonorganic,” they are seldom wrong. "
What an arrogant statement.
LOL. Let's look at that statement. So these experienced clinicians are rarely wrong when they deem something to be the product of a psychiatric disease. That is an interesting statement and completely UNverifiable. I am a physician who practiced for 23 years. I know that the vast majority of patients to whom you indicate that you think they are somaticizing will not be in your practice for long. So how do the doctors "verify" their opinion? We know that "follow up" can be very misleading in the case of MS and we can suspect that they really don't get a chance to "verify" at all. The patients don't come back unless they really buy into the theory. So, without followup, the doctor sits comfortably smug in the "truth" of his opinion.
Again, if they do follow up with a person that does actually have undiagnosed MS what they might find is: 1) The symptoms remain, but still no diagnosis, 2 ) the symptoms have resolved, 3 ) the patient still might have some symptoms, but may now have new ones also. All of these outcomes are consistent with a psychiatric disorder. The doctor still might conclude that all of these outcomes prove somatization, yet has continued to miss the real diagnosis.
It is a circular reasoning that gives a lie a semblance of truth that is self perpetuating.
My evil neuro deemed me a head case. He is repeatedly considered to be one of the best 100 doctors in our fair city. I didn't go back. What evidence does he have that his opinion is right or wrong. In his arrogance I'm sure he is certain that he was right. But, here I am with a worsening hemiparesis, total incontinence, and a wartload of spinal lesions.
This is Junk Science, believed by it's creators and taught to the neuros who read the article for Continuing Education Credits. It truly sickens me.
I would hope that the whole limbolander forum would read this article, my criticisms of it and see part of the reason they cannot get a diagnosis, be it MS or any other neuro disease that might mimic MS.
Quix
What an arrogant statement.
LOL. Let's look at that statement. So these experienced clinicians are rarely wrong when they deem something to be the product of a psychiatric disease. That is an interesting statement and completely UNverifiable. I am a physician who practiced for 23 years. I know that the vast majority of patients to whom you indicate that you think they are somaticizing will not be in your practice for long. So how do the doctors "verify" their opinion? We know that "follow up" can be very misleading in the case of MS and we can suspect that they really don't get a chance to "verify" at all. The patients don't come back unless they really buy into the theory. So, without followup, the doctor sits comfortably smug in the "truth" of his opinion.
Again, if they do follow up with a person that does actually have undiagnosed MS what they might find is: 1) The symptoms remain, but still no diagnosis, 2 ) the symptoms have resolved, 3 ) the patient still might have some symptoms, but may now have new ones also. All of these outcomes are consistent with a psychiatric disorder. The doctor still might conclude that all of these outcomes prove somatization, yet has continued to miss the real diagnosis.
It is a circular reasoning that gives a lie a semblance of truth that is self perpetuating.
My evil neuro deemed me a head case. He is repeatedly considered to be one of the best 100 doctors in our fair city. I didn't go back. What evidence does he have that his opinion is right or wrong. In his arrogance I'm sure he is certain that he was right. But, here I am with a worsening hemiparesis, total incontinence, and a wartload of spinal lesions.
This is Junk Science, believed by it's creators and taught to the neuros who read the article for Continuing Education Credits. It truly sickens me.
I would hope that the whole limbolander forum would read this article, my criticisms of it and see part of the reason they cannot get a diagnosis, be it MS or any other neuro disease that might mimic MS.
Quix
COMMUNITY LEADER
Confession time, ahhhh i didn't actually read it all, i got a bit flustered after reading this part......
" The “average” person with MS generally has 1 distinct neurologic episode per year—in many studies actually closer to every 24 months—and they are then free of symptoms until their next relapse. Patients with a psychiatric disease generally have multiple symptoms that come and go all the time. They are seldom free of symptoms.
They seldom feel well. "
I was thinking it didn't sound right to what all the MSers discuss on here, i made a note to find the 'studies' because i found it a confusing bit of info. This part....
" The coexistence of known psychiatric problems is obviously another clue that a patient’s neurologic symptoms might be psychiatric in origin. If a patient is known to be anxious or depressed or has a history of other psychosomatic problems, their current symptoms must be viewed with more suspicion."
I was wondering about all the MSers that had been told their psychiatric episodes was caused by their MS. But this part had me seeing red flat............
" Studies have shown that when experienced clinicians conclude (after appropriate investigations) that a patient’s symptoms are “nonorganic,” they are seldom wrong. "
I had to stop reading because i was loosing my cool, blamed PMT and went to bed for a time out. I did go back and skim through but i was basically looking at the 'how it mimics MS'. I probably should of been more diligent, checking validity before recommending it but i was thinking the list was simple and easy to follow. That type of list is something that limbo lander would find useful in making sure they have crossed all the T's and dotted all the i's.
Its not all bad, at least Dr Q in all her wisdom has laid it out, now if someone does read it they will with the sceptism necessary, in stead of blind faith in its validity!
Cheers.........JJ
" The “average” person with MS generally has 1 distinct neurologic episode per year—in many studies actually closer to every 24 months—and they are then free of symptoms until their next relapse. Patients with a psychiatric disease generally have multiple symptoms that come and go all the time. They are seldom free of symptoms.
They seldom feel well. "
I was thinking it didn't sound right to what all the MSers discuss on here, i made a note to find the 'studies' because i found it a confusing bit of info. This part....
" The coexistence of known psychiatric problems is obviously another clue that a patient’s neurologic symptoms might be psychiatric in origin. If a patient is known to be anxious or depressed or has a history of other psychosomatic problems, their current symptoms must be viewed with more suspicion."
I was wondering about all the MSers that had been told their psychiatric episodes was caused by their MS. But this part had me seeing red flat............
" Studies have shown that when experienced clinicians conclude (after appropriate investigations) that a patient’s symptoms are “nonorganic,” they are seldom wrong. "
I had to stop reading because i was loosing my cool, blamed PMT and went to bed for a time out. I did go back and skim through but i was basically looking at the 'how it mimics MS'. I probably should of been more diligent, checking validity before recommending it but i was thinking the list was simple and easy to follow. That type of list is something that limbo lander would find useful in making sure they have crossed all the T's and dotted all the i's.
Its not all bad, at least Dr Q in all her wisdom has laid it out, now if someone does read it they will with the sceptism necessary, in stead of blind faith in its validity!
Cheers.........JJ
how about VEPs ... what does it mean if you have eye issues..blurry/double vision every 6 months or so...on and off... pain behind your one eye that last for weeks..not strong pain...an achy pain.. but your VEP is normal... for two years now I have normal VEP..so they say ??? Not ON.. but my optic whatever is pale??
they say to buy glasses??
I'm confused
wobbly
they say to buy glasses??
I'm confused
wobbly
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