raynaud's and MS

[jrob21]

I have been told that Raynaud's syndrome is a symptom of Multiple Sclerosis.  I was diagnosed with Raynaud's Syndrome in 1988 and later diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in 2004.  Could my diagnosis with Raynaud's in 1988 been the onset of Multiple Sclerosis since the symptoms for both diseases are the same.  Is there any medical research to prove that Raynaud's could be a symptom of MS?

[hasstago]

I've had RS since I was 8yrs old.The doctor told me I must wear gloves in 50 degree weather for i could get ganggreen. My hands turn so blue when cold and when Im upset. I also have blue lines (not veins) all through my body.  I feel as if I may die when I get to cold.  Cold to me is not cold to others.  
Im 43 now and very active and physically fit.  My recent last visit to doctor he said i must wear gloves on my hands because the next stage will not be good/tolerated.  Doctors say no caffiene or chocolate very bad for RS. Also they say no rubbing hands back and forth to keep them warm , the friction kills blood vessels. I may lose my hands.

[Ricobord]

I had one episode of Raynaud's, and in my reading about it, It was clear that the medical establishment doesn't know what causes it.  It occurs more frequently in people with certain autoimmune disorders, usually the ones related to connective tissues.  Even Lyme sufferers report instances of Raynaud's, and Lyme infects connective tissue as well as blood vessels and nerves.  I know one person with Lupus and Sjogren's like symptoms who also has Raynaud's as well as a friend's sister with an autoimmune disorder of the lungs.

I doubt there is a definitive answer to your question.  You could try to search for a medical study that compares the rates of people with MS and Raynaud's to rates of one and not the other. If such a study exists, it might help your case.  Good luck!!

[Peg409]

jrob21, you stated the s/c you for ms, and now of course the VA is doing a review, typical. I have a couple of questions/statements for you. What year were you discharged from service? MS is automatically service connected within 7 years of discharge for all vets. checkout 38 USC 1112 (a)(4).  http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/38/II/11/II/ 1112
Second, That doesn't mean you had to have the diagnoses within 7 years, it only means you had to start showing signs and symptoms of MS within 7 years from discharge that lead to a diagnoses. All of this is also listed under 38 CFR 3.307, 3.303, and 3.309. You do not have to prove nexus to service as long as it is within the 7 years period as this is persumptive to service.
MS does not have to be related secondary to any of s/c disability because it is presumptive to service on it own.
The main issue you have is when did you start showing signs and symptoms of MS that stand alone and are not related to other s/c disabilities and is it diagnosed. Without the MS diagnoses they can drop it until you have a diagnoses, but if you have the dx and the symptoms are there, stand you ground based on 1112, 3.303, 3.307, and 3.309.
Good luck
Wife of a Veteran, Peg

[sandythegeek2]

I have had raynauds for years in my feet and hands. Worse in my hands. Gets pretty bad in the winter. I don't have dx of MS as of yet. My middle daughter has raynauds as well and she's only 27. :(

[twopack]

I think it is a huge stretch to use the term correlation when referring to people who deal with both Raynaud's and MS - especially without a recognized expert opinion citation.

I'm not clear on how you need or want this to play out but I'm pretty sure the military powers who determine disability benefit eligibility aren't going to be swayed by the opinions of patient community members anyway.  The value of social media in health care only reaches so far.

If you find out anything definitive please let us know.  Otherwise, maybe the men in uniform will allow you to pass along their expertise and opinions.

[Deb61]

The secondary form of Raynaud's typically falls on the heals of rheumatological diseases like lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, Sjogren's, or scleroderma, and can be secondary to hypothyroidism.  There is a primary form of the disease, too.  Most people who have it have this type; however, it is not typically very serious--which doesn't sound like the type that you have because of having to be on disability because of it.  

The secondary type is caused from another underlying disease like the ones mentioned, but can also be caused from chemical poisoning, injury, overuse, carpal tunnel, and blood vessel disease (like atherosclerosis).  

Before my hypothyroidism diagnosis and MS diagnosis, I was diagnosed with Raynaud's myself.  

BTW, many sites state that MS and lyme disease as other diseases that raynaud's is associated with.  See Wikipedia for just one example.  I pulled up others . . .

[jensequitur]

There is definitely correlation between an MS diagnosis and a Reynaud's diagnosis, but they ARE NOT the same disease.  If I were you, I would get a doctor to evaluate you and see how long you've actually had MS.  Chances are that you had the disease in 2004 - or before.

[jrob21]

Ok, this is my deal. I was diagnosed with RS while I was in the military and discharged with a service connected disability related to RS in 1988.  Once I was diagnosed with MS in 2004, the military increased my benefit which is a great thing. Now in 2012 they are trying to take away the benefit as unrelated to my service connected disability RS. My symptoms in 1988 were those of MS/ RS.  I am trying to fight for my benefits.  Could the diagnosis of RS really have been the onset of MS?

[Jacksmom516]

I too have Reynauds and MS and throw in Hypothyroidism to boot!  They are all auto-immune diseases so that could also be the link at least that is what my Dr tells me!

I am just an auto immune disaster!

[jensequitur]

What everybody else has said, plus...

The symptoms of Reynauds are essentially lack of circulation in your hands in patchy areas.  I get Reynaud's in my two smallest fingers on both hands.  However, Reynauds and MS are two very different diseases.

Nobody really knows how they're connected, but another disease that's found quite often in MS patients is anti-phospholipid syndrome, which causes excessive clotting.  The question becomes what causes the MS disease activity, and what does it have to do with blood vessel constriction and excessive clotting?  Weird, huh?

[twopack]

As others have said, the causes of primary and secondary RP aren’t clear.  It may not be uncommon for people with autoimmune disorders to have Raynaud’s but there is no firm link between the two that I’m aware of either.

However (!) abnormal nerve control of blood-vessel diameter and nerve sensitivity to cold have both been suspected as contributing factors to the circulatory spasms that result in Raynaud's symptoms.  

I don’t think it is fully understood how (or how much) the central nervous system disease of MS changes the dynamics of other body systems.  Lulu has mentioned in the past that she believes the heart attack she had was caused by blood vessel spasms related to her MS.  Blood vessels are blood vessels are blood vessels.  IMO, our body structures are too integrated and their functions are too interrelated to either dismiss or establish easy boundaries.

I guess I would tend to put this in the same mystery box as Bell's palsy and MS.  Sometimes people recover from Bell's (maybe even more than once) and end up diagnosed with MS years later.  It happens often enough to make people wonder about a connection but, in reality, a majority of people with Bell's recover and never develop symptoms of MS.  Is there a connection?  Is there a misdiagnosis involved?  It's a thin silver thread of evidence.... or coincidence.

I am sorry you got hit with a double dose whammy of autoimmunity!  It’s the pits :(

[rendean]

Secondary Raynaud's usually comes on the heels of an autoimune disease, hence MS can be connected but only because it is an autoimmune disease like lupus.

Raynaud's DOES NOT cause MS.

Ren

[anon07072023]

I have Raynaud's and I also have MS.  I showed my neuro and she knew right away what it was.  However, I'm still not sure if it's secondary to my MS or not.

[jujuminx]

I have never heard that RS is a sx of MS. Although people w MS can have sx similar to RS.  Two different diseases, two different underlying issues, but I totally agree it is definitely possible to have both.

Risn- You can pretty much find anything on google, which unfortunately doesn't nec make it correct.  Only associated disease I see it connected to that is similar to MS is Lupus but connected, similar or associated aren't the same as a symptom of which I think is what Jrob was asking and I don't see any link b/w the two.

Anyway I am NO expert, just giving my uneducated opinion.



Julie

[risnerrose]

I've been googling this and have actually found several sites listing a connection between MS and secondary Raynauds.  A surprise to me.  

[Lulu54]

they are two separate disease processes from what I know.  Raynauds is circulatory and MS is in the central nervous system.  That said, there is no reason why you can't have both.  What does your doctor say?

Welcome to the forum - I hope you stick around and share your story and your questions.
best. L