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Bulging Disc: Surgery or not?
About 2 years ago, I started feeling classical symptoms of sciatica - pain radiating down my right leg, all the way to the knee, mostly on the side of the leg. This happened right after I made about 10 consecutive jumps. A year later after that episode, I had MRI done. It showed that I had 2 bulging/herniated discs and 1 herniated disc. The bulging/herniated discs are at L1-L2 and L2-L3 position. The mildly herniated disc was at L5-S1 position. My leg pain is always there, however, its severity is on and off. It's never extreme, such as inability to get out of bed or not go to work. However, at times it's distressing resulting in inability to exercise at gym or do various physical activities fully.
I am 25 years old and sports has always been a somewhat large part of my life. I have a gym membership for 10 years, I play basketball, tennis, soccer and other sports recreationally. This pain has inhibited some of those activities and I had to cut out many of the exercises that I used to do in the gym (squats, back rows, military press and etc.)
Recently I had 2 epidural injections done, about 3 weeks apart. The first one helped for about 10 days and the 2nd one I had done less than a week ago and the pain has already come back almost fully.
I have seen 2 surgeons and both recommended surgeries after first trying more conservative treatment. I have been prescribed by one surgeon to undergo a PT course for 6 weeks. While I didn't start it yet, it's unlikely to help in my view.
The first surgeon recommended a laminectomy and the 2nd one microdiscectomy.
Is it worth going through one of these surgeries given my age and somewhat nagging pain, should PT fail (as I predict it will)? If so, how successful are these surgeries in terms of pain relief? Will I ever be able to go back to gym again at at least 80% of how I used to? In other words, do the benefits outweigh the costs of recovery, pain and some risk?
Is PT any help in situations like these where the pain is chronic and according to MRI and X-Ray, I have some bone spurs and somewhat degenerated discs?
Thank You for your time and attention,
- Igor
I am 25 years old and sports has always been a somewhat large part of my life. I have a gym membership for 10 years, I play basketball, tennis, soccer and other sports recreationally. This pain has inhibited some of those activities and I had to cut out many of the exercises that I used to do in the gym (squats, back rows, military press and etc.)
Recently I had 2 epidural injections done, about 3 weeks apart. The first one helped for about 10 days and the 2nd one I had done less than a week ago and the pain has already come back almost fully.
I have seen 2 surgeons and both recommended surgeries after first trying more conservative treatment. I have been prescribed by one surgeon to undergo a PT course for 6 weeks. While I didn't start it yet, it's unlikely to help in my view.
The first surgeon recommended a laminectomy and the 2nd one microdiscectomy.
Is it worth going through one of these surgeries given my age and somewhat nagging pain, should PT fail (as I predict it will)? If so, how successful are these surgeries in terms of pain relief? Will I ever be able to go back to gym again at at least 80% of how I used to? In other words, do the benefits outweigh the costs of recovery, pain and some risk?
Is PT any help in situations like these where the pain is chronic and according to MRI and X-Ray, I have some bone spurs and somewhat degenerated discs?
Thank You for your time and attention,
- Igor
Great post. I just turned 61 and had my first back surgery 2 years ago. I am w/ you, dude-- even tho I am NOT mechanically minded, am a 61 year old woman (ex-hippie-- does that figure in anywhere?) my attidue is, "if it's broken-- JUST FIX IT! I had very close :friends:-- docs themselves who warned me off the back surgery -- but life on Vicodin and I pain didn't set right w/ me. I spent two years on the "slow boat to China;" Chiropractic, acupuncture, nerve blocks, cortisone, and PT-- to which the sum total was diddly-- or temporary relief. I found a great surgeon @ Cedars...felt great for 7 months after one year of healing-- then wham! Not pain-- ache-- and the same annoying signs I had while healing-- stiffness in my back, muscle stiffness that traveled all the way and ended for me in migraines. When I returned to my "great" surgeon-- I got a handful of pills-- Norco and steroids (oral) and to my question of "If I don't feel better should I call for a follow up," the reply: "You know where we are. The appointment w/ the GREAT one cost me $175 bucks b/c the GREAT no longer takes BLUE CROSS. The cost of the MRI? Close to 6 grand. My portion was "only 300. I found another doc thru my Neurologist/Migraine doc whom I love-- and tho I did wait nearly 90 minutes to see him- he gave me a wide range of options. However, no more slow boats for me. I have read that after 10 years both surgery and non surgery disc bulge patients report equal satisfaction and non-return of pain. Guess what? I could be dead by then. I don't feel good. I don't have horrific pain. But I do have constant continuous ache that leaves me exhausted and often blooms into migraine. I am a writer and sitting is the absolute worst position. Sitting activates the ache/pain. I would recommend thorough research on your surgeon. Tho my first surgeon let me down this time-- his first surgery was fabulous. My new doc seconded the opinion. He also explained thoroughly my back and how and why this is happening to me--- tho I do have these disc problems-- my spine itself is in great shape. If you do have spinal issues and are considering surgery -- don't ask your friends-- ask someone who's been thru it. Then research the surgeon and research the facility. Do your due diligence. Some people will still opt out of surgery. Not me. I want it over yesterday.
Hello, I was reading down through all these comments looking for some opinions or other options myself for my neck injury, when I came upon the post from inseriouspain. I couldn't let this one go, this is my same story to the T only with C5-6 bulge, protrusion, herniation, call it what you will its all in the radiologists terminology. As for my personal experience with what I'm going through now I can surly attest that you do NEED the advice of legal council. These WC issues can be very tricky. It is very unfortunate that companies really don't care about the health or care of their employees, it all comes down to the bottom line.(If you get injured your are now labeled as a liability) Yes there sure are those who do nothing but abuse the system, but when you have someone who shows up to work on time, is never late, doesn't take off, has a good work ethic and just plainly bends over backwards to do their job you also get the same treatment as those who abuse the system.
On July of 2012 I was at work and got injured by someone else's total incompetence. ( my super.) Anyway the IRC's or Express Care centers that you have to go to for your initial eval. are bias. Your employer is in cahoots with these selected establishments in order to get you back to work asap with the least amount of cost possible. Where I live this state is one of the worst in the country to try and get anything solved through WC.
In my personal experience the rules are: you must first report the injury with in a timely manor (there is a numerical time limit) and you are sup post to get a list of Dr.'s that you have to chose from to go see from your employer. Then with in 90 days if your not better or satisfied with your outcome you have the legal right to go see a Dr. of your choice. But this is where things get tricky.
Take it from me that if you do not take care of this issue and be true to yourself this will end up causing you extra stress and much un-needed pain.
So in dealing with the WC(Workers Comp) Dr. who wasn't listening to me in the first place I went the way of the std. procedure. For the first 90 days follow everything by the book, you don't have a choice. I told the Doc. my pain level, what was hurting and how, she wrote the initial injury up as a cervical strain, gave me 5 X-rays, Vicodin and PT. As the PT went on and me saying this isn't working its making things worse nothing you are doing is working the Dr. finally sent me for an MRI, two months later.
I received the MRI results and was told to go see the Orthopedic Spine Dr. Well the results are: disc hern. at C2-3,5-6. NO KIDDING that is what all the pain is from. Mean while I'm still working full boar, still following their rules word for word. More pills, don't do this or that, use this traction device, set you up for epidurals, uuggghhh. After 8 months of this, 3 injections and no real positive results just loads of pain pills( I call them band-aids,and refuse to take much of them). I was truly getting discouraged and felt like no one was taking me seriously, through all this treatment things were not getting any better. Then one day before heading into work(2nd) I opened the mail and there was a letter that my employer wanted me to have an IME.(Independent Medical Evaluation) I thought ok what is this and what is going on?
That is what prompted me to seek legal council, when the Dr.'s won't listen to you and your employer sends you for an IME its time. Not sure if you know what an IME is so I'll clue you in a little. An Independent Medical Eval is exactly that, an evaluation by a Dr. chosen and paid by your employer's third party administrator. These Dr.'s drive around in my case from a different state and go to a set Family Practice to evaluate you. Their job is to complete a physical analysis of you and type up a report then submit that to your employer, and their insurance company. You can refuse to go but if you refuse now your employer doesn't have to keep you on WC.( Double edged ). Also in going to an IME you have to answer all the personal questions on the questionnaire plus the evaluating Dr.'s inquiries. I know right this seems to be against the Hippa policy since now your work is going to know more about you than what you want them to know.
Going down this WC road for someone legit it does seem to drag you through the mud a little. Oh did I mention the above IME Dr. at least the one my work used received $4000 for a one hour physical and a report.( per my legal council). These Dr.s are paid to give an ay ok eval. your fine go back to work report. Fine I'd be glad to but I'm still in pain you say, at this point you don't have a leg to stand on without legal representation. So hopefully you seek legal help before you get to this point. I know many people whom have injured themselves or have been injured and were afraid of their employers because the fear of loosing their job and that's just not right. Well those people are wishing they would have done things in a different manor.
Something I'll never understand, most times an employer would rather spend way more money and waste resources trying to get out of a claim than it would have cost to help fix their employee. Every case is different though and has its own specific parameters. You have got to be prepared today and be one step ahead at all times, because most employers know that you won't be prepared to go down the road I was forced down. In the end it ended up costing my company.
So during my many Dr.'s appts., going to work everyday living my life with this pain I learned one very valuable key element to this whole WC deal. If your WC Dr. that you have to go see per rules doesn't diagnose you correctly the first time, in the state were I reside the employer has the right to deny your claim, therefor making it very difficult to change the Notice of Compensation Payable to what is really causing you the pain. The employer says,"Well we already paid for the cervical strain," true, but that was included in with my bad discs, which was a miss diagnosis. So yes it is a very tough road, most cases usually last 12-15 months to get things resolved, but with having the correct legal council there to help guide you and take care of the tremendous amounts of paper work, it should work out. You can take what I have said to the bank, because I am still currently going through this long, arduous process. Hope some of this helps to ease some tension and maybe answered some questions for you, but it is unfortunate the way these things go.
I'd be glad to help answer some questions if any, specially because its still very fresh in my mind.
On July of 2012 I was at work and got injured by someone else's total incompetence. ( my super.) Anyway the IRC's or Express Care centers that you have to go to for your initial eval. are bias. Your employer is in cahoots with these selected establishments in order to get you back to work asap with the least amount of cost possible. Where I live this state is one of the worst in the country to try and get anything solved through WC.
In my personal experience the rules are: you must first report the injury with in a timely manor (there is a numerical time limit) and you are sup post to get a list of Dr.'s that you have to chose from to go see from your employer. Then with in 90 days if your not better or satisfied with your outcome you have the legal right to go see a Dr. of your choice. But this is where things get tricky.
Take it from me that if you do not take care of this issue and be true to yourself this will end up causing you extra stress and much un-needed pain.
So in dealing with the WC(Workers Comp) Dr. who wasn't listening to me in the first place I went the way of the std. procedure. For the first 90 days follow everything by the book, you don't have a choice. I told the Doc. my pain level, what was hurting and how, she wrote the initial injury up as a cervical strain, gave me 5 X-rays, Vicodin and PT. As the PT went on and me saying this isn't working its making things worse nothing you are doing is working the Dr. finally sent me for an MRI, two months later.
I received the MRI results and was told to go see the Orthopedic Spine Dr. Well the results are: disc hern. at C2-3,5-6. NO KIDDING that is what all the pain is from. Mean while I'm still working full boar, still following their rules word for word. More pills, don't do this or that, use this traction device, set you up for epidurals, uuggghhh. After 8 months of this, 3 injections and no real positive results just loads of pain pills( I call them band-aids,and refuse to take much of them). I was truly getting discouraged and felt like no one was taking me seriously, through all this treatment things were not getting any better. Then one day before heading into work(2nd) I opened the mail and there was a letter that my employer wanted me to have an IME.(Independent Medical Evaluation) I thought ok what is this and what is going on?
That is what prompted me to seek legal council, when the Dr.'s won't listen to you and your employer sends you for an IME its time. Not sure if you know what an IME is so I'll clue you in a little. An Independent Medical Eval is exactly that, an evaluation by a Dr. chosen and paid by your employer's third party administrator. These Dr.'s drive around in my case from a different state and go to a set Family Practice to evaluate you. Their job is to complete a physical analysis of you and type up a report then submit that to your employer, and their insurance company. You can refuse to go but if you refuse now your employer doesn't have to keep you on WC.( Double edged ). Also in going to an IME you have to answer all the personal questions on the questionnaire plus the evaluating Dr.'s inquiries. I know right this seems to be against the Hippa policy since now your work is going to know more about you than what you want them to know.
Going down this WC road for someone legit it does seem to drag you through the mud a little. Oh did I mention the above IME Dr. at least the one my work used received $4000 for a one hour physical and a report.( per my legal council). These Dr.s are paid to give an ay ok eval. your fine go back to work report. Fine I'd be glad to but I'm still in pain you say, at this point you don't have a leg to stand on without legal representation. So hopefully you seek legal help before you get to this point. I know many people whom have injured themselves or have been injured and were afraid of their employers because the fear of loosing their job and that's just not right. Well those people are wishing they would have done things in a different manor.
Something I'll never understand, most times an employer would rather spend way more money and waste resources trying to get out of a claim than it would have cost to help fix their employee. Every case is different though and has its own specific parameters. You have got to be prepared today and be one step ahead at all times, because most employers know that you won't be prepared to go down the road I was forced down. In the end it ended up costing my company.
So during my many Dr.'s appts., going to work everyday living my life with this pain I learned one very valuable key element to this whole WC deal. If your WC Dr. that you have to go see per rules doesn't diagnose you correctly the first time, in the state were I reside the employer has the right to deny your claim, therefor making it very difficult to change the Notice of Compensation Payable to what is really causing you the pain. The employer says,"Well we already paid for the cervical strain," true, but that was included in with my bad discs, which was a miss diagnosis. So yes it is a very tough road, most cases usually last 12-15 months to get things resolved, but with having the correct legal council there to help guide you and take care of the tremendous amounts of paper work, it should work out. You can take what I have said to the bank, because I am still currently going through this long, arduous process. Hope some of this helps to ease some tension and maybe answered some questions for you, but it is unfortunate the way these things go.
I'd be glad to help answer some questions if any, specially because its still very fresh in my mind.
I had severe pain right from L3-L4 to hip and left foot. It lasted 6 months, I was barely able to move few feet. Could not squat or sleep well. Than miracle happened when I went to pool to swim, I did one hour breast stroke. When I came out of pool pain was gone. Only slight pain in lower back. Later it came on and off but only when I do some weight lifting/shifting or squat. Its two years now, I regularly swim for 5 months, 2-2.5 KM per day breaststroke in summer and weight training with dumbbell in winter.
Hope this help some one.
Hope this help some one.
Prolotherapy has multiple injection sites and a dextrose solution is used to
"re-injury" the site bringing fresh blood flow to the area thru re-inflamming the old injury in hopes of having the new blood flow flush out the "toxins" of the old injury. The hope is then thru PT to have this new injury heal correctly.
The procedure is done weekly over a period of 6 to 8 weeks and at the end you start the PT.
That being said I found the treatments excruciating and the first time I couldn't even pick up a gallon of milk. I was a painting contractor who was used to picking up 5 gallon cans of paint, climbing up and down ladders, and working all day & sometimes nights too.
Towards the end of that treatment though the treatments became less painful, more tolerable, and my strength returned.
I had torn ligaments around the tail bone area due to a 5 car pile up.
Fast forward 30 years to now, with a fall accident at work I now have 3 bulging disk giving me grief. I have leg numbness, muscle spasms in both legs, and pain radiating down to my feet. I can no longer go for long periods of time with out relieving myself because a full bladder now causes me a great deal of leg pain.
Now I can't work and have no insurance. So if you have insurance get the surgeries done. You might try however, DMSO once or twice per day on the area. I myself can't stand the odor or the taste of DMSO or I would of kept using it because it was helping. I got my DMSO from Valley Vet Supply in the roll on applicator for horses. So if you don't mind tasting a metallic clam like taste in your mouth and smelling like oysters for a while it just may help with the pain.
"re-injury" the site bringing fresh blood flow to the area thru re-inflamming the old injury in hopes of having the new blood flow flush out the "toxins" of the old injury. The hope is then thru PT to have this new injury heal correctly.
The procedure is done weekly over a period of 6 to 8 weeks and at the end you start the PT.
That being said I found the treatments excruciating and the first time I couldn't even pick up a gallon of milk. I was a painting contractor who was used to picking up 5 gallon cans of paint, climbing up and down ladders, and working all day & sometimes nights too.
Towards the end of that treatment though the treatments became less painful, more tolerable, and my strength returned.
I had torn ligaments around the tail bone area due to a 5 car pile up.
Fast forward 30 years to now, with a fall accident at work I now have 3 bulging disk giving me grief. I have leg numbness, muscle spasms in both legs, and pain radiating down to my feet. I can no longer go for long periods of time with out relieving myself because a full bladder now causes me a great deal of leg pain.
Now I can't work and have no insurance. So if you have insurance get the surgeries done. You might try however, DMSO once or twice per day on the area. I myself can't stand the odor or the taste of DMSO or I would of kept using it because it was helping. I got my DMSO from Valley Vet Supply in the roll on applicator for horses. So if you don't mind tasting a metallic clam like taste in your mouth and smelling like oysters for a while it just may help with the pain.
hi could you please provide me your contact number at ***@****. i have same disc problem, so tell me from where u get the treatment .
I had the same problem few months back and I opted for Ayurvedic-Panchakarma and Yoga for the same, as per my Ayurvedic Physician this is all mechanical and alignment problem so he just did some wonderful procedures on my spine and right now I dont have any pain, yes I do some yoga for daily. Wish you better luck
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