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schmorl's nodes

My sister in Italy is 55, after intense pain at her back for a few days (middle section, with shooting pains also at her rib-cage), she went and had X-rays taken yesterday, and they told her she has Schmorl's nodes at her D-11 vertebre.
No ostheoporosis.

She is quite fit and active, she told me that this pain began after a few days of some extra effort she did carrying something and possibly after an intense session with her chiropractic she has been  seeing regularly for a few years now. She doesn't recall something specific that she did to cause the pain to start.

Her pain is diminished but of course she wants to be reassured that it is not something really problematic.
I did a little research and saw more or less what this is about.

What's the best immediate "therapy" for her?
Rest and chiropratic? Is there something she should be avoiding doing from now on or can she have a normal life?

Thank you very much for your advice.

STEFANO
71 Responses
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Avatar universal
After 2 severe falls on pavement with dogs, 21 years of giving deep tissue massage, and a life time of athletics I have been diagnosed with that same thing along with facet anthtropathy in L4-L5 and a couple minor disc buldges. I've had the same extreme issuses of pain and doing basic daily tasks. it's absolutely disgusting how the US medical community had treated me and drained all my money plus some.
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Avatar universal
I also find all these comments interesting in the fact that there is overwelming unity in the fact that the drugs don't help and there is definitely always pain associated with having Schmorl's nodes.  I have all the horrific pain symptoms that have been listed, I continue to work at a physically demanding job only because I have been told that there isn't really anything wrong with me....besides the herniated discs and bone spurs in my neck and lumbar spine, schmorl's node in lumbar spine, Stenosis and severe osteoarthritis in spine. I have muscle spasms that would drop you to the floor and the pain in my ribs,  I thought they were broken. I might have one good day a week. I also had breast cancer and a double mastectomy. I am curious how many others were told just to keep working?
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Avatar universal
I also find all these comments interesting in the fact that there is overwelming unity in the fact that the drugs don't help and there is definitely always pain associated with having Schmorl's nodes.  I have all the horrific pain symptoms that have been listed, I continue to work at a physically demanding job only because I have been told that there isn't really anything wrong with me....besides the herniated discs and bone spurs in my neck and lumbar spine, schmorl's node in lumbar spine, Stenosis and severe osteoarthritis in spine. I have muscle spasms that would drop you to the floor and the pain in my ribs,  I thought they were broken. I might have one good day a week. I also had breast cancer and a double mastectomy. I am curious how many others were told just to keep working?
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I have read plenty of your comments and find them very interesting because I was a very sporty person growing up and just before my 18th birthday I was told that I have a sixth lumbar vertebra and there are Schmorl's nodes in that specific vertebra. I am 22 now and I am in so much pain. The medical team that treated me just sent me home with anti-inflammatory tabs as well as muscle relaxers. These do not help! Please advise me on what to do next.
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Avatar universal
I have read plenty of your comments and find them very interesting because I was a very sporty person growing up and just before my 18th birthday I was told that I have a sixth lumbar vertebra and there are Schmorl's nodes in that specific vertebra. I am 22 now and I am in so much pain. The medical team that treated me just sent me home with anti-inflammatory tabs as well as muscle relaxers. These do not help! Please advise me on what to do next.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I just had an mri done because of never ending pain in my upper back for almost ten yrs now they found chronic schmorl's nodes in 7vertebrea but treat me as nothing is wrong im on antiflamitory meds an nerve pain this doesnt help what kind of specialist should i try to see
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Avatar universal
These nodes can very much cause pain. The nodes cause inflammation in the spinal cord where all of your nerves run through. When there is inflammation in the spine, it does affect/ bother the nerves. I have this too.

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Avatar universal
I'm 37 & super healthy & active. I've had a Schmorl's node pain for a year due to a minor tweak in my  mid back & it side-lined me. I found relief in acupuncture (some acupuncturist are definitely better than others) & yoga. I got my initial major relief from a Mayo Clinic chiropractor that does the Graston technique. He said I had scar tissue covering my back (it was trying to protect myself) and I was super stiff. That really got me on the healing path. I felt amazing after my first visit and didn't realize how crappy I was actually feeling before. He said yes, it was a Schmorl's node, but also noted myofacial issues related to that (your back is like a series of rubberbands & everything effects each other). So his focus was on my hamstrings--he really got in there and rubbed it out (it hurt, but so worth it). Now to keep relatively pain-free I need to keep my hamstrings very stretched. I always thought acupuncture and chiros were just hokey medicine, until I was at my wits end and would try anything. I can't sing enough praises about both. Acupuncture did seem to wear off effective ness after a while. I got really sick of hearing from my other Mayo docs that Schmorl's nodes don't cause pain, finally after 3/4 year the chiro finally agreed since that was my sole location of my pain. I did a few stints of PT then rested for half a year and activity moreso stretching seems to help the most. Yoga seems to be the best answer for a productive life & injury prevention (and this statement is coming from a former college rugby player :) Does anyone know if these ever heal or go away? Good luck!
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Avatar universal
For 2 weeks I've been taking Devil's Claw, a root found in Africa touted for relief from spine  inflammation. 4 capsules (2 at breakfast & 2 at dinner) gave me instant relief the next day and each day after. Do your research on the internet--you cannot take it with some drug, and it can only be taken for 4 months. It's sold on Amazon.
mybackpain
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Smorl's node is a fracture or chip out the spine. Check wiki out. Mine as always caused me pain through my life after falling from a high slide onto gravel at 6 years old till now being 40. I've found cannabis to be my prefered medicine for relieving the pain. I've been using and studying herbal medicines in theory and practice for around 20 years.  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
hi,
  ur info pertaining to the schmols node was very interesting. i had compression fractures on d3,d12 n l1 when i ejected out of my fighter aeroplane. there was associated soft tissue damage and edema.i was treated coventionally with strict bed rest for 1 month and an additional month of rest...
  after 9 months i still have pain in the lower back from prolonged sitting at work...recent mri showed a shmols node at d12 where edema had been..did the edema develop into schmol node..is there something wrong i did in the interim period?should i have taken more of bed rest? i have been eaten up by guilt that i screwed up the recovery...i took the usual precautions of not bending forward and lifting weights...took adequate rest after return from work..etc.
  cud u please prescribe what i need to do...i feel immideate relief on lying down..should i take off from work? is schmol's node the cause?
   thanks a lot
deepak
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
hi,
  ur info pertaining to the schmols node was very interesting. i had compression fractures on d3,d12 n l1 when i ejected out of my fighter aeroplane. there was associated soft tissue damage and edema.i was treated coventionally with strict bed rest for 1 month and an additional month of rest...
  after 9 months i still have pain in the lower back from prolonged sitting at work...recent mri showed a shmols node at d12 where edema had been...
  cud u please prescribe what i need to do...i feel immideate relief on lying down..should i take off from work? is schmol's node the cause?
   thanks a lot
deepak
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I went to doctor with thoracic pain radiating into ribcage and abdomen. The doctor told me I have a lumbar contusion. But he prescribed me a muscle relaxer and Anaprox 550mg (alieve). The muscle relaxer is called Tizanidine 4 mg. It has helped more than anything for the muscle spasms. It is a muscle relaxer that is used for specifically spinal cord injuries. After going back because pain wasn't much better, They did Ct scan and found I had Schmorl's nodes at multi-levels of lower & mid level of my thoracic sine. Don't know what they plan to do yet. Hope this helps. You might ask you doctor about this muscle relaxer. Best of luck.
Brenda
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Avatar universal
Hi,
On October 17th 2010 i took my then 12 yr old to A&E as he was in considerable pain and couldn't sit down properly. He was a keen Rugby player and footballer playing both for his school teams and our  town. The pain had been developing over the previous week but reached it's worst on this day. We were sent home with 'bruised ribs'! 10 days later with no improvement i took him to our GP who laughed at the bruised ribs diagnosis and sent him for an xray. After the x-ray we were immediately sent back to A&E to be seen by the doctors. We were given 3 different opinions by 3 different doctors, the last diagnosis being my son had a fractured spine ! After MRI and CT scans the final diagnosis came as my son had a 'Limbus Lesion' and a 'Schmorl's Node' on L4. There was also some bruising on the bone. The pain my son was in only occured when he tried to sit down or if he was stood still for more than a few minutes. The specialist assured us that these findings were purely incidental and would not be the cause of the pain.

20 months later, to today. My son is still unable to physically sit down. When he does he experiences acute pain. He will be 14 very soon. He has lost 2 years of education as he has been unable to attend school. We've has all the psychological mumbo jumbo thrown at us, that his pain could be psychosamatic (sp?) we've had over a year of physiotherapy and hydrotherapy with no effect. Drugs do not provide any relief other than cause constipation, which to someone who cannot sit down, is a slap in the face ! We've had 2nd and 3rd opinions at our hospital. 'Mechanical Back Pain' is the diagnosis. The specialist refuses to consider that the lesion and node could have anything to do with the pain even though that is where he feels it. My son is missing out on his childhood. I am desperatly fighting for a refferral to the Royal Orthapedic Hospital for a fresh opinion from a new team of doctors. It's so frustrating
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I have Schmorl's on my L5 but have no pain from them
Can they be mistaken and be an MS lesion instead?
I have MS
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
i had an accident at work over a year ago and have been in sever pain since.  first i was told i had a disc protrusion at L4 L5, i started physio and was told i had a hitch in my hip and sever muscle strain as well,  i have had two MRI with the latest saying schmorls node at T11  i have tried physio (for 4 months) chiropractor, acupuncture, steroid injections, im on pain killers and meloxicam still cant work a full day, constant pain,  i just received an inversion table and hoping it will help.  My understanding is that Schmorls Node is two vertebra's  pressing down on each other causing the disc to spread and weaken and hit nerves,  my doctor didn't know anything about it and i have been left to deal with this alone.  Advice anyone please?
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Avatar universal
I've been a research doc in Immunology for many years.  Injured my back when was rear ended in 1984, herniated L4-L5 central into canal, had a neurosurgeon repair and had flair ups that lasted a few days to a week. When they occurred pain was unreal, spasms that made hard to breathe but always subsided with laying flat, knees bent on thermophore heating bad and meds.  Been getting worse last 15 years. Managed to not get addicted with the doctors throwing pain meds at me by only taking at night to get some sleep.  A few years ago, went to Snow Mountain with my kids and down south they DON'T know how to tend a slope.  Ice chunk hit me in tail bone and must have fractured it.  Ever since, pain constant, feels like someone is drilling into my hips and pain down legs.  Now just went through 3 MRI's in last 4 weeks. Shows degenerative changes, nerves pressed on by two discs and Schmorles nodes, hemangioma on spine and pockets of edema.  Pain is unreal, down legs and up to neck, right shoulder and down arm with weakness.  Doctor blowing it off, as usual and throwing pain meds at me.  
It's absolutely true that the disc material is toxic to nerves and tissue containing many inflammatory cytokines (IL-1, etc...) which causes the attraction of cells known as macrophages which eat away.  Other cytokines cause direct damage also.  The idea that these nodes are nothing is absurd.  Anytime a doctor can't get results, they chalk it up to mental or made up.  Here I am with real herniated discs, prior surgery, clear impingement of nerve roots and these nodes and doctor acts like I'm making the intense pain up even though I turn down pain meds (acts like I'm trying to get them). Now scheduled for spinal injections which, no offense to those who get relief, I hate them, painful and what they are doing is injecting steroids that shut down the production of cytokines like IL-1 etc... While that may be good for decreasing the inflammation and attraction of cells that cause damage, it also interfere with your immune system function.  I used dexamethasone in lab to wipe out immune function in mice so we can transplant cells that are not matched.  They have a PROFOUND affect on immune function locally and maybe further with these injections.  Your immune system fights off cancer cells everyday in everyone and it only takes one cancer cell that gets past this system to start growing.  Sometimes the cure is worse than the problem but the pain is so bad now I just don't care anymore.  It's like Fibromyalga, anyone remember how all the doctors called people with that mentally ill, or faking? Funny how Big Pharma now has an FDA approved drug for a "fake illness".  How about chronic fatigue syndrome? most doctors think that's a mental illness but if you do your homework you see they suspect several viruses now.  What they can't treat they mock!!! The only thing that worked for me was medical Marijuana, high in CBD and CBG.  I DO NOT LIKE the psychotropic affects but the pain relief and anti-inflammatory affect of these compounds are 50-100 times more potent than NSAIDS.  Another note, chronic use of NSAIDS cause heart disease!!! I should know, had a heart attack last year after taking most of them for 28 years.  Atypical heart attack with only right coronary artery blocked, all others were clear.  This was a sign that it was NSAID caused.  Watch the drug commercials now, they clearly state that "chronic use of NSAIDS can cause heart disease" to protect themselves.  A new drug may be approved next year called Sativex which is basically extract of Marijuana with high CBD and CBG, if we're lucky. Otherwise you have to be a criminal to stop the pain or become addicted to the drugs THEY choose which don't really help and make it so you can't function and then you're a criminal if you take them too long.  Welcome to the land of the free and the home of BIG PHARMA.  On a closing note, the government just gave the rights to use the  plant to one or two companies who will extract it and make more money at our expense.  Marinol which some use, pure THC, is nasty and cost 30-50.00 a pill!!! Talk about criminal!!!! Good luck to all of you, if you live in a medical marijuana state, try it and you will see it works.  I strongly recommend you find the low THC ones with high levels of CBD and CBG, there are only a few in California that have it and it's 7-8% these compounds with very little THC which is what gets you "high".  The body has what's called the endocannabinoid system which regulates inflammation. You can check this, it's published accepted work by major peer reviewed journals.

If you're not in a state that has these laws, watch out!!!! even if you live in a state that has it watch out!!! While Obama promised not to prosecute those who have real medical reasons for use, it's a lie.  His top cop, Eric Holder is prosecuting and shutting down it's use all over these states and by signing up you're giving them your name, address and where to come arrest you.  Again, Welcome to the land of the free and home of the brave!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I've been a research doc in Immunology for many years.  Injured my back when was rear ended in 1984, herniated L4-L5 central into canal, had a neurosurgeon repair and had flair ups that lasted a few days to a week. When they occurred pain was unreal, spasms that made hard to breathe but always subsided with laying flat, knees bent on thermophore heating bad and meds.  Been getting worse last 15 years. Managed to not get addicted with the doctors throwing pain meds at me by only taking at night to get some sleep.  A few years ago, went to Snow Mountain with my kids and down south they DON'T know how to tend a slope.  Ice chunk hit me in tail bone and must have fractured it.  Ever since, pain constant, feels like someone is drilling into my hips and pain down legs.  Now just went through 3 MRI's in last 4 weeks. Shows degenerative changes, nerves pressed on by two discs and Schmorles nodes, hemangioma on spine and pockets of edema.  Pain is unreal, down legs and up to neck, right shoulder and down arm with weakness.  Doctor blowing it off, as usual and throwing pain meds at me.  
It's absolutely true that the disc material is toxic to nerves and tissue containing many inflammatory cytokines (IL-1, etc...) which causes the attraction of cells known as macrophages which eat away.  Other cytokines cause direct damage also.  The idea that these nodes are nothing is absurd.  Anytime a doctor can't get results, they chalk it up to mental or made up.  Here I am with real herniated discs, prior surgery, clear impingement of nerve roots and these nodes and doctor acts like I'm making the intense pain up even though I turn down pain meds (acts like I'm trying to get them). Now scheduled for spinal injections which, no offense to those who get relief, I hate them, painful and what they are doing is injecting steroids that shut down the production of cytokines like IL-1 etc... While that may be good for decreasing the inflammation and attraction of cells that cause damage, it also interfere with your immune system function.  I used dexamethasone in lab to wipe out immune function in mice so we can transplant cells that are not matched.  They have a PROFOUND affect on immune function locally and maybe further with these injections.  Your immune system fights off cancer cells everyday in everyone and it only takes one cancer cell that gets past this system to start growing.  Sometimes the cure is worse than the problem but the pain is so bad now I just don't care anymore.  It's like Fibromyalga, anyone remember how all the doctors called people with that mentally ill, or faking? Funny how Big Pharma now has an FDA approved drug for a "fake illness".  How about chronic fatigue syndrome? most doctors think that's a mental illness but if you do your homework you see they suspect several viruses now.  What they can't treat they mock!!! The only thing that worked for me was medical Marijuana, high in CBD and CBG.  I DO NOT LIKE the psychotropic affects but the pain relief and anti-inflammatory affect of these compounds are 50-100 times more potent than NSAIDS.  Another note, chronic use of NSAIDS cause heart disease!!! I should know, had a heart attack last year after taking most of them for 28 years.  Atypical heart attack with only right coronary artery blocked, all others were clear.  This was a sign that it was NSAID caused.  Watch the drug commercials now, they clearly state that "chronic use of NSAIDS can cause heart disease" to protect themselves.  A new drug may be approved next year called Sativex which is basically extract of Marijuana with high CBD and CBG, if we're lucky. Otherwise you have to be a criminal to stop the pain or become addicted to the drugs THEY choose which don't really help and make it so you can't function and then you're a criminal if you take them too long.  Welcome to the land of the free and the home of BIG PHARMA.  On a closing note, the government just gave the rights to use the  plant to one or two companies who will extract it and make more money at our expense.  Marinol which some use, pure THC, is nasty and cost 30-50.00 a pill!!! Talk about criminal!!!! Good luck to all of you, if you live in a medical marijuana state, try it and you will see it works.  I strongly recommend you find the low THC ones with high levels of CBD and CBG, there are only a few in California that have it and it's 7-8% these compounds with very little THC which is what gets you "high".  The body has what's called the endocannabinoid system which regulates inflammation. You can check this, it's published accepted work by major peer reviewed journals.

If you're not in a state that has these laws, watch out!!!! even if you live in a state that has it watch out!!! While Obama promised not to prosecute those who have real medical reasons for use, it's a lie.  His top cop, Eric Holder is prosecuting and shutting down it's use all over these states and by signing up you're giving them your name, address and where to come arrest you.  Again, Welcome to the land of the free and home of the brave!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi,

I am having nagging pain in my back for the past one and a half months. MRI shows that I have a schmorl's node at L2. I have consulted 2 doctors and they say that there is nothing to worry and everything is normal with the mri findings. Pain is not going away. I have tried interferential therapy, ultrasound etc. and i have also done some exercises to strengthen my back muscles. But nothing is giving me a complete relief. Any idea when this pain will go away ?

Thanks.,
Harish















Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
hi i  have nodes on my T2-T12 it hurts hard to sit,, pain intense around rib area,,, my nero didnt say anythang about what to do,, even my regular doc asks me what my nero doc told me to do ,,,so what am i gonna do made appt, to see nero doc an make him explain to me what do i do about the pain? i also had fusion on my L3,L2,4,, an have osteo,, on my right hip,, tyvm for listening,,julie
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Avatar universal
Im only 17, i've been having back pain since mid august, had an mri scan 2 days ago and turns out i have schmorl's node. The doc says its because of the sports i do, he says its not alarming and will heal but it will take a very long time.
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Avatar universal
I was in a car accident May 13, 2010, where a lady T BONED me at about 70mph and ruined my life forever I thought. Its the ignorence of the doctors, hospitals, and then the cover up for the first one who screwed up because if you tell them you were in a 70mph T BONE, crushed between the door and console, and knocked out cold without my head hitting anything, and didn't go to the hospital because I said I was alright! I was in shock, my body was so in shock I guess I didn't feel anything at the time because I lost my memory for 3 months, then all heck broke loose. I find out that my vision was so bad and so disoriented, and PAIN, PAIN that only people like us can imagine. I was discharged from a Neurologist 3 days after I saw him. I had tests from him that my wife took me too. One was for a EEG for Seizures but when I regained my memory I saw that it was for Pschosis and never received from hospital the results. 4 MRI'S Brain, Cervical, Thoracic, Lumbar. I had so much damage it was ridiculous. But the worse thing is that on my Thoracic which has several herniations, I have Chronic Schmorl's Nodes.
Small endplate depressions are noted adjacent to the disk spaces in the lower Thoracic Spine consistent with CHRONIC SCHMORL'S NODES. I have had so many doctors ignore this and when I tell them that the worse pain you can possibley imagine comes from the middle back to my chest, that makes it extremely hard to breathe and this is 24/7 and even a Neurosurgeon all of them put on their reports that there is no reason we see that there should be any pain in this area!!!!! I have never got any medical help in over a year. The only thing I got were tests that were not suppose to show anything but did and so they put only stenosis lumbar. I did get 1 doctor to give me another MRI asked for upper and middle but only would give me a lumbar MRI because in 2002 I had some herniation in lower back. This was about 11 months after the first and when it came back 3 time worse than the first I was again discharged. I raced motorcycles for 10 years when I was young and have been in pain sinse 15 but it never bothered me or was a problem. Until I damaged my Thoracic on May 13, 2010 and now after 39 years this pain is so bad that I would rather be in the looney house, because I never thought that anything could cause this much pain that it drives you crazy. So anyone who for a minute thinks that having Schmorl's nodes is nothing I say let me beat you in the back with a baseball bat several times a hour for a year, then if you tell me that I am not in or any of you out there are not in the most extreme pain all of the time, then I guess there ready for another round of the bat.
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1545021 tn?1322477485
Just curious, can these thing improve or go away? They popped up on my MRI and I'm wondering if they will always be like that or can they get better?
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Avatar universal
I have been misdiagnosed with stigmata of juvenile discogenic disease to explain the Schmorl's nodes.  The real cause was a car accident.  I think the confusion is that the thoracic spine is supposed to be protected from injury more than cervical and lumbar regions because of the rib cage.  I am in terrible pain, too.  I think the explanation of the leaking of chemical from kwood1 above makes the most sense.  Good luck finding a doctor who understands this condition.  
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