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Menopause Symptoms After Removal of Ovaries

On Feb. 5 I had my sugery to remove both ovaries, uterus, tubes,& cervix due to a Stage 1A Complex Cyst. I was dreading going through "surgical menopause", although at 53 I was almost there anyway . But here I am a full week after surgery, and I have had no symptoms at all. I guess I was expecting the hot flashes, night sweats, etc to happen pretty quickly.  I was just wondering how soon after having both ovaries removed did anyone start having menopause symptoms, and how bad were they??

Since I had a DVT several years ago, I can't take hormone replacements, so I'm hoping I may be lucky and not experience anything too bad.
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106886 tn?1281291572
I am so glad that this helped. Stay in touch and let us know how things go for you, okay?

I was just reading this over last night after it finally posted and I see where I am telling you that you may have to educate your doctor...well, that was from the origional time I posted this and before editing. But, it may be that you will have to do some of this anyway. The woman I was writing to had been told that she did not need progesterone because she did not have a uterus....here we go again! But, you will learn all about this when you read Northrup.

I still pick up her book now and then and I credit Dr. Northrup for helping me stay proactive about my health. Her book, "Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom" was another book that helped me back in the late 90's. I was diagnosed with Severe Cervical Dysplasia (not related to HPV)....actually, I picked up her book when I got my first bad pap smear at age 45 and the doctor advised I wait. After reading that section in that book on Cervical Dysplasia, and talking to a doctor friend who confirmed Northrup's advice, I had further testing instead of waiting and my doctor admitted surprise when she found the Severe Cervical Dysplasia. I did switch doctor's shortly after that, too, and that helped.

Ok...rambling. Take care, Mary
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Avatar universal
Thank you SOOO much for the info. I know I have lots of homework to do on this,  but you really have been a great help. I've already ordered "The Wisdom of Menopause" from Amazon, and since I have lots of free time right now while I'm off work, I'm looking forward to reading it, and doing some on-line research myself. Thanks again.
Kaern
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106886 tn?1281291572
*** Is your printer ready?***

Hi Cagney, Okay, this does not really answer your question, does it....? Sorry. But, I cleaned up my info on progesterone and thought I would post it.

I used a compounding pharmacist for years. He recommended a dose and we had it approved by my doctor. I had to file for the insurance. My doctor was willing to do things this way since he was learning about the bio's and the source at the pharmacy was a good one. And, we went by how I was feeling.

Now I work with a Nurse Practitioner who works for a Urologist and the doctor signs off on the scripts. She is the best. Really listens...and I go in for blood level tests about every three months. And, insurance is covering it all. I cannot believe it. And, I switched pharmacies, too, and they file for me, so I just pay the Co-pay. Unreal. I found this woman through the internet...Plugged in "best for bioidentical hormonal balance" and two names came up for Minnesota and her name was on the list. Prior to that, a nurse friend of mine had recommended her. Word of mouth...compounders, or, perhaps your doctor himself or herself can help you out. You can always start there and see what happens.

I just recommend researching so that you know what to ask. And, for women who are not allowed to go on anything for whatever reason, Northrup's book on Menopause has great info on other things to get you through all this, although she is a big believer in the Bioidentical hormones.

Here is the information:


Find Dr. Christianne Northrup.....if possible get her book. "The Wisdom of Menopause" is what saved me. And, from that book and the info that she gave, I picked up two or three other books on progesterone. "Progesterone; the New Estrogen" was one book. Very good. Although, nobody had better try to take away my estrogen.

Reiss's book will help with the testosterone issue. I am not sure what the deal is with testosterone. I hear in one place that you cannot get it...but, that it can be compounded. That one is natural but not approved by the FDA. HUH? Well, all I know is that I have two types of testosterone. I just started one of them and it is 2mg/0.1ML of cream. I use 0.1ml to my inner thighs each morning (it is energizing so you would not use it at night). But, I also have testosterone in a gel that can be used to "perk" up the labial area....but the cream on the thighs is the one I use for more systemic action (all throughout the body).  

Testosterone will help with mental clarity, fatigue, mood, weight management, etc. Women need it.

Ok. The Progesterone issue. I know you are going to have to tip toe a bit on this one. After all, you will be educating the doctor.  

When the synthetic hormones came out about..what? 35 years ago....synthetic estrogen, such as Premarin, was marketed. It is not the same molecularly as the estrogen our bodies produce. It is one molecule off. It is made from the urine of pregnant mares. It is a drug put out by Wyeth. It has many side effects. Just recently, a doctor for the North American Menopausal Society (funded by the drug company, Whyeth) stated that the synthetic hormones and the bioidentical hormones are exactly the same. I was flabbergasted. I have researched this stuff for over six years. My sister, a nursing instructor, has done the same for fifeteen years. Well, a week later, he retracted his statement and said there is a difference (this was all for the report that Katie Couric did on the evening news back in December or November. When the correction came out, I wonder how many saw that. Makes me a bit upset that he would mislead women like that. Anyway....

Now...some women do okay on this...especially short term. It will mask the side effects of menopause. But, again, regarding the side effects...this was the drug (again...this is not a real hormone) that was used in the Women's Initiative years ago that was pulled because women were getting sick from it (I will say that looking at the study, it was flawed from the beginning due to the older average age of the women in the testing....you can read about the study on Suzanne Somers' web page, and it is called "The Women's Initiative Health Study" or something close to that)...none the less, when I was reading about progesterone in 2001....I recall the book I was reading discussed the potential hazards of Premarin and Prempro...and the author of the book could not believe that women were actually being used in the study....there was great concern for the health of the women.

The Bio's were NEVER used in this study. And, then, as you know, the study was abruptly stopped a few years ago. But, this is funny....because even my husband came running to me to tell me to turn on the TV set because they found a problem with the hormones used for menopausal symptoms....NO THEY DID NOT...THEY FOUND A PROBLEM WITH THE DRUGS used in the study. Yes. I am passionate about all this.

Here is where the confusion about progesterone comes in. When women were taking ONLY fake estrogen, such as Premarin, there was concern about the women getting a rare form of cancer, uterine cancer. Even though it is a rare cancer,none-the-less...this became a big concern. So, the pharmaceutical companies developed a fake progestin (again, note the "tin" ) that would help protect the uterus from getting uterine cancer. So, it did have some small benefit.... But this raised a red flag since progestins caused even more problems...but, at least it protected the woman from getting the rare disease of uterine cancer.

The drug companies cannot legally call Progestins  progesterone. One example is "Prempro"   (Premarin + Progestin). Progestins are not good. There have been great concerns about breast cancer, etc......well...just go and find the side effect list of progestin or Prempro....you will see. And, I would bet that high cholesterol is listed, too.

The problem now is this.....the doctors and everyone else in the med. community started mixing up the names. Progestins became progesterone......and the names are often used interchangeably.

So, it is understandable, but sad, but many women are told they don't need it...the progesterone, because the doctor is thinking of Progestins...so, you don't have a uterus, you don't need it....WHOA! I have been told the same thing. I went for a check up a few years ago and the nurse asked me what I was taking....I said, Bioidentical Progesterone (just say the two words together for safety's sake) and she said..."Why do you take that....(aghast)!!! You don't have a uterus." I felt like saying...."Yes...but, I do have a brain."

Actually, I did say something like that thinking I could educate this poor woman who happened to be about my age and probably going thru a natural menopause complete with brain fog, bone loss, anxiety, etc. I told her that we have receptors (cell receptors) in our brains.... in our lungs........Progesterone builds bone. Estrogen protects us from bone loss but only progesterone of all the hormones will build it back up.

The other big thing is that whenever you take estrogen, in a bio form, you need to balance it with bio progesterone. And, since the fat cells are producing estrogen (called Estrone) you are still making estrogen, so it is important, according to all the research I have done, that women take progesterone for the sake of balance among other reasons.

I know that I was unbalanced for years. I about cried when I read the info on progesterone and estrogen dominance when I was researching progesterone before asking my doctor if I could go on it. Migraines, allergies, anxiety, depression, mental fog, leg cramping, weight struggles. I had it all.

The reason I was in estrogen dominance and low on progesterone for years before my hysterectomy for ovarian cancer at age 47 was because I was not always ovulating. There were signs of this....once it was documented by a lab when a sample of my blood was sent in as I was bleeding profusely and needed a D and C . Turns out I had not ovulated at all (they were checking for miscarriage). When you do not ovulate, you don't produce progesterone. And, this is what happens in the late 30's and 40's and it, as I understand it, is the start of perimenopause.


Mary
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Avatar universal
Hi Mary,
Looking forward to reading your info. My surgery was 2 weeks ago today, and I really feel good! I've not had any problems at all, never have had any pain, and can get around much better than I had anticipated. I still haven't experienced any hot flashes, night sweats, etc.  I even felt good enough to make a 2 1/2 hr. road trip this past weekend with a friend to go to a Josh Groban concert. She got me the tickets as a Christmas present before my surgery was scheduled, and when I found out my surgery was going to be Feb 5, I was very doubtful I'd be able to go.  But, I made it just fine.  I feel VERY lucky to have caught this at stage 1A and to not need chemo, and also that I seem to be recovering really well. I'm hoping the "menopause experience" will go as well too :-)
Karen
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106886 tn?1281291572
Hi, Luckily I saved a document that I wrote on the hormones a year ago. Much of it is on the benefits but the misunderstandings concerning Progesterone. I will copy and paste it tomorrow....I PROMISE :)

Warm up your printer! I know a lot of women print the longer posts for future reference before they get burried..or save to the hard drive.

Thanks for your patience. Hope you are feeling ok. I know you just had your surgery last week.

Mary
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146110 tn?1247150090
I think you should definately talk to the gyn/onc about this.  My gyn/onc told me to take HRT only is I really felt I needed it.  If it was just to bad to handle.  My first hot flashes were about a week after surgery.  Really bad!!!  The cold after was almost worse.  Anyway, they went away for awhile and are now back but not so bad.  Soooo, I think you should take your own feelings about how you are doing and your gyn/onc advice about what to do.    :) Laura
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Avatar universal
Mary- Take care of yourself, and just get back to me when you can. I'll be looking for you. Thanks again.
Karen
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106886 tn?1281291572
Don't give up on me. I can answer that for you. It is a bit complicated, though...and, I have been sick this week and over-worked (aren't we all?) but my good doctor started me on Zithromax, the dear man, and I pick it up in an hour from the pharmacy.

If this post gets buried, I will post a new one, so be on the look out this weekend. Take care, Mary
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Avatar universal
Thanks Mary for all of the valuable information. Guess I have lots of homework to do while I'm home recovering from surgery!

Just a quick question- would it be better to follow-up on the hormone issues with my gyn. oncologist, since I'll be following up with her anyway, with my regular gyn, with my primary care Dr., or possibly with an Endocrinologist??  Just not sure who I should "use" to try to coordinate all of the issues re: hormones.

Karen
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Avatar universal
Hi. I am 47 and had both ovaries removed in nov 06.Three days after op i had a hot flush.When i asked the nurse when they would kick in she replied"about now"!.I have 1/2 a night and maybe 1/2 in the morn.Nothing in between!.Moods are a little erratic but none of this would make me go on hrt.I just hope it stays like this and does not get worse.Good luck i hope you are one of the lucky ones!.Dawn
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Avatar universal
Gee, if hormones are stored in fat cells, I should be fine; Being overweight,I have LOTS of those :-) Also, I've been on Paxil for awhile, so perhaps having that in my system will help as well.  I just keep waiting for that first hot flash.  Maybe it won't be so bad after all.
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106886 tn?1281291572
Hi, and first of all, thank you to Fungirl for being the first to respond. I do find the hormone posts sooner than later, but I have been hit with the headcold that I had dodged for the past six weeks, since that is how long my husband has had it. But, there are quite a few of us here who use the bioidentical hormones. Not to be confused with HRT, which, I, too, would not have anything to do with, I use BHRT in the form of bioidentical estrogen, a patch which is commercially available and I use two types of testosterone and of course, the Bio Progesterone, which has been my lifesaver. I get these items at a compounding pharmacy and I need a prescription for them. I work with a specialist in my area and have blood levels checked every three months.

This stuff gets very very very confusing, however, and you must do some research on it so you will have all the information if and when you need it.

I am 53, too, and I have been using the bio's since the year 2000 after my radical hysterectomy for ovarian cancer. It is true that a by-product of a certain fat in the tissues is an estrogen called Estrone, and interstingly enough, I spoke with someone at work (an occupational therapist) about this just today and unfortunetly, sometimes there is so much estrogen at play in the bodies of menopausal women that there is more estrogen flowing than when they were in perimenopause. This can cause the dreaded Estrogen dominance all over again. Progestereone will balance the estrogen and provide protection against problems associated with too much estrogen.

I use a slight amount of Estrodial to help keep cell receptors open for the progesterone, also for libido, bone loss issues, bladder issues, vaginal dryness, hot flashes and night sweats, and clear thinking. Testosterone is also great for the clear thinking issue as it is for energy and of course, libido, too. Some women use a suppository of either estrodial or estriol (a weak estrogen) vaginally to help with vaginal dryness which can also lead to bladder issues. I am currently trying to correct a bladder issue with the suppostories so that I can avoid another surgery.

It does take three months for the progesterone in our systems to leave the body totally, as Fungirl referenced, and I'll tell you, it was three months to the date practically that I thought I was losing my mind after my surgery. It took time to do the reseach to figure out the problem, but by the time I got on Progesterone (not PROGESTIN AND THIS IS HUUUGGGEEE and you need to learn the difference and also need to know why you need progesterone) it took about a month and a half before I started to feel anything, and then....boom, about three weeks later I felt the best I had felt in about five years.

The thing is you want to be balanced. Even if you take no estrogen, there are many schools of thought that say it is critical to take bioidentical progesterone.

I seriously hope that all women who go through any kind of menopause, but particularly surgical menopause, read up on this and please do not go by one or two media news flashes. There is so much incorrect info out there. And, all the studies that said to stay away from hormones were done on synthetic hormones, such as the Progestins as in Premarin and Prempro.

My favorite books are "The Wisdom of Menopause" by Christianne Northrup, MD, and books by Erika Schwartz, MD and Uzzi Reich (Sp?) on Natural Hormones for Women.

There are many websites on the bio's too to help you out. I would start with Northrup and Schwartz....google them to find the sites.

Even if you are lucky enough to have no symptoms, you should do this research so as to protect yourself from bone loss, high cholesterol, dry eyes, migraine headaches, GI disturbance, fuzzy thinking, leg cramps...I always look to hormone issues first when I have a strange sypmtom. I had no idea that the fall out from my hysterectomy would be so great. But, by staying informed and proactive, I have done okay.

I have probably left you with more questions than answers...but, it is a start.

Best of luck to you,

Mary
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Avatar universal
Hi, my dr mentioned that estrogen is stored in the fat cells in your body.  So the more fat cells the less problems you'll have with menopause.  I also read that SSRI antidepressants help with menopause symptoms.  I take Efexxor XR and believe it helps.  Everyone is a little different though.  The website hystersisters as have good info on this topic as well = you should check it out.
Debbie
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Avatar universal
I am no expert on the subject, but from what I have been told, it takes about 4 months for all of the hormones to leave your body.  I also had both of my ovaries removed in April.  I do not take any HRT, and still have no menopause symptoms due to the fact that my gyn/onc believes that I have Ovarian Remnant Syndrome (ORS).  From all that I am told, this is a rare, but there are a few on there that also have the same thing.  I hope Mary53 comes by, as she is the hromone queen.  She is so wonderful and has great advice.  Kasie
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