Differing Dr's Opinions regarding use of Supplements/ Antioxidants during Chemo

[RAS50]

I will begin my second round of chemo next week for a recurrance (only 4 months after my first line chemo ended).  Since my first round of treatment I have invested hundreds of hours in research and one thing that I see is that some data/ literature recommends taking vitamins/ supplements, etc. (such as Vitamin C, Selenium, Vitamin E, etc.) during chemo while other research and most oncolgists (including mine at MD Anderson) believe that these should be avoided during treatment since they could interfere with the effectiveness of chemo and reduce the cancer cell kill rate.  I am really worried that my immune system has not had any time to strengthen since my last chemo; I don't want to do anything that minimizes the effectiveness of chemo, but it sure makes sense to me to take lots of vitamins and eat lots and lots of veggies during chemo.  Any comments/ your own experince would be appreciated.  When I saw the nutritionist at MD Anderson before beginning my first round of chemo, she admitted MD Anderson's approach here was very conservative and recommended I avoid taking supplements and eating too many antioxidant foods until my treatment ended.  Sure is confusing.  Thanks  Rachael

[Conners]

My Drs. have stated not to use antioxidants and it has just been published that they interfere with chemo. The tumeric, ginger, etc all interfere according to the Dr.'s and nutritionist I have spoken with. I take a list each week and rely on the Dr.s I am paying $400 to rather than strangers on the internet that all have good intentions or the internet itself.

[LorrieAnne]

How do they treat cancer in Europe?

[Kimchi]

I started with lots of vitamins, antioxidans, natural supplements and mushroom before starting chemo.  My onc had no problem with me continuing this while on chemo which I did.  I did 12 rounds of carbo and taxol and my blood work would bounce back to normal levels before the next round  and I believe helped me deal with side effects.

[JC145]

Quite simply, I was told to avoid antioxidants during treatment ... foods/vitamins/drinks because "we don't want to protect the cancer cells".  Also, when the white cells are low, fresh fruit and vegatables were a no no .. suggested frozen instead.  Alchohol was not advised except during the week off from chemo.  I would drink lots of cranberry juice cut with water to clean out my kidneys ... even while the chemo was being administered.

Judy

[slee56]

I am going in for a prechemo interview and that will be a concern I was reading that some Dr at a Denver cancer clinic said that the use of antioxidents and good vitimanes during chemo was not a concern... or unfounded. In studies done that it was found that healthly diet and supplements help ....I had both a mastectomy and a hysterectomy about 2 weeks ago this tues and was out of the hospital with drain tubes in two days actully only there one full day that was wednesday... I had loaded up on all kinds of healthy food and vitimaines prior to surgery ...
It does take a lot of studing to find what works for you as an individule..
In germany they use an induced  fever of 105 -107  to kill cancer cells .. President Regan went to Germany for his cancer treatment in 1985.... take care shar

[alanpvegas]

Posting late on this but your oncologist is basing their statements on a very flawed study (where lab animals were given WAY HIGH dosages of vitamin c that no human being could even take).

Selenium is good for about 200mg, as well as a multivitamin.  You might want to check into nature's way "Alive!" multivitams which have tons of stuff in them.

Also for the immune system, Maitake D-Fraction is among the best 'oral' ones to take.  Filled with polysaccharides / Beta Glucans.  www.maitake.com has the professional version.

DIM and "Fermented" Soy are good supplements to take and thankfully "Nature's Way" makes these as well.

Good luck!

[freshair]

Becky,
Thanks. I'm glad you had a chance to have a little one before this dreadful disease. Those steroids have kept me up. One nite I only had 3 hours of sleep.
I know with the stomach thing. I had doxil this summer and crackers were helping me.
Hope your treatment goes well,
Helen

[Tybear]

Thanks for your response, Helen. Didn't mean to sound so rude - I'm just getting my back up with the notion from some people that they know what's best for everyone who is going through chemo. Clearly, that's not you and I didn't mean to mis-direct my anger towards you. It is so frustrating to hear what all the different Dr's say... everyones got an "opinion", and no one seems to agree on anything. I guess you really do have to do your own research and come up with what's best for you. I would love to eat more organic foods, but they are a lot more expensive here in Canada. Money's always tight and with a 3.5yr old to feed, I just can't afford it, especially the meat. Yes, I believe the Canada food guide is probably a lot like in the U.S. - I can't say I even follow that to well. As I'm going through treatment now (it's 3am, can't sleep from the steroids - have a treatment this morning) I eat when I can and it's usually something heavier that will "sit" in my stomach. Just what feels good at the time, you know?
Thanks for your response,
Becky

[freshair]

Becky,
In no way was I directing a criticism towards you. I am sorry you took it that way. I felt your anger.

I was using your green tea as an example when I was reading the posts on Rachel's question and that was not right on my part.

I was using a generalized oncologist statement--you can eat anything you want. So then I felt if someone says you can't have tea then why would they say you can have "anything." So then I was visualizing someone eating donuts all day versus someone drinking tea with their food. Then I thought of the absurdity of it.

But I also think it is a very good statement that you can eat anything you want when you can't get food down. Then you should eat what you can or want.

As for categorizing me on what I label junk food you're somewhat off: my diet is--- I do eat meat but usually fish, on low RBC counts some red meat, do consume sugar in chocolate and cookies (here and there), do have things in boxes and cans. But yes on the dairy--I  try to stay away from that but not all the time cause of butter.  And yes, junk food for me does include anything that has preservatives in it. I have to say I never consume anything with preservatives unless its at a restaurant. As far as organic--I'm lucky cause there's a lot available and sometimes it is the same price. I'm not fond of heavy amounts of pesticides for me or the workers at the farm or people that live right next to the farm, and neither for our water supply. So I do my part and buy about 60% organic.  

Its strange on different doctors, my nutritionist at the hospital said to drink green tea cause there was a study on the enhancing effects with chemo. I really like my oncologist and nurse and you like yours--that's very important. There's so much controversial stuff out there. We have to do what we feel is right. And they keep coming out with more and more studies. So we grab what we can.

Is the Canada Food Guide like USA?  Are you on treatment? I just read some history on a post above that you got cancer at 26. I feel for you getting it so young. I know someone that got it at 30 at stage III and is doing well now--20 some years later. My daughter is 27 and I worry about her now. She just had an abnormal pap and had a biopsy. Well time to go.
Helen

[Tybear]

I think that green tea comment may have been directed at me. No my Dr didn't tell me to eat junkfood, but I have a feeling that anything that contains meat, dairy, sugar, preservatives, comes from a can or out of a box, or isn't organic is what you might consider junkfood. In addition to being told to avoid green tea while I'm in treatment, I met with the hospitals dietician who advised me to follow Canada's Food Guide. I will do what my medical team advises me to - what everyone else chooses to follow is up to them.
Becky

[freshair]

Sorry I meant to you Rachel on your reoccurence. It's hard to keep track of everyones name.

[freshair]

Becky,
Sorry to hear of your reoccurence so soon.

My feeling on antioxidants are stay away for 3 days before and 3 days after. I'm so sorry you had breast cancer also. My sister had breast cancer. Consume as much of the braissaca family foods as possible. Cabbage, broccoli, kale, collards, mustard greens. Very good foods for estrogen positive cancers. These will give you lots of bone building vitamins too. Broccoli sprouts excellent. Green tea.

Feed your body good. Don't eat junk. Exercise, drink lots of fluids. I like water with lemon, too. Herb teas with honey. And treats here and there. Hey 70% chocolate with almonds--yum.

Also in European countries, they do things differently.

Does your oncologist say don't drink green tea but yes, do eat junk food?

Go with your gut feeling,
Best of luck,
Helen

[RAS50]

Thanks, my dear.  Everything you told me sounds very sensible.  I not only have ovarian cancer but had estrogen positive breast cancer which is why I also need to worry about hormones, soy, etc.  The naturopathic doctor I found is also part of a Wellness Center near my home- I'm going to give it a try.  Keep well and stay in touch.  Regards,  Rachael

[arabela]

Becky, have you ever heard of Ezorb? I've been taking that because it's a very highly digestible calcium supplement that doesn't require vitamin D to be used by the body. Check into it at ezorbonline.com and you can read about it there. Most calcium tablets are really hard for the body to utilize. I'm concerned about bone loss since my hysterectomy. I'm 43 and I actually started taking it before all this because my mom told me about it and it just sounded like a good idea, but now I have just upped the dosage.

[Tybear]

I'm actually from Canada, but I was lucky enough to have insurance cover mine as well. I thought I would at least go to see what they had to say. We have a wellness center that opened near my house last year, so I just called there. At the time, I was actually looking for someone who would prescribe bio-identical hormones, so that's how I really chose. I was lucky - the Dr I found was actually trained in gynecology primarily, then did natropathic medicine. She was very cautious to tell me to take anything during chemo though - she made me a list of supplements to take when I'm done. I've actually got the list right here:
Flax Oil, liquid multi-vitamin (easier to digest than a pill) ACE+s (vitamins A,C,E and selenium(?) and Ortho Bone (because I can't take estrogen)
She also strongly suggested Green Tea, but not during chemo for the reason I mentioned above - when I'm done, she said about 4 cups/day.
Everything else she said is really common sense - limit caffeine and alcohol, limit intake of red meat, lots of water, fruits and veggies etc...I'm also to avoid soy products because my cancer tends to be estrogen driven.
I hope you are able to find someone who can give you the answers your looking for.
Good luck,
Becky

[RAS50]

Thanks to all of you for your comments which actually have demonstrated the situation quite well regarding differing opinions on this topic!  I will be talking to my onc on Tuesday and getting more information about the treatment plan.  She has scheduled a conference with all of the other gynecological oncs at MD Anderson on Thursday to present my case and discuss treatment options and my husband & I are invited to attend- which I think is great.  At this point she has said she would research if there was any precedent that had been set using Doxil with Avistan; if not she is leaning towards Doxil only possibly followed by radiation.  I need to find out if the radiation has any impact on my future treatment options- I know it did when I used it for breast cancer.  At this point, I am heavily leaning towards avoiding the high doses of antioxidants/ supplements during chemo cause I don't want to do anything to interfere with it.  I will ask about continuing my multi-vitamin and my mushroom extract, ginger caps and also as you say Helmar, get maximum nutrients from food (as long as severe nausea is not a side effect.)

Tybear, I have been considering seeing a naturopath physician since they are medically trained physicians focused on nutrition and other alternatives.  I have looked at the American Association of Naturopathic Physicians web site and located one in Houston close to my home.  How did you find yours and research him/her?  What exactly did they do for you to determine treatment?  I beleive my insurance covers this.  Thanks

Rachael

[Tybear]

Hi Rachael... I went and saw a natropath and she and my Oncologist both said to avoid antioxidants during chemo. If the role of an antioxidant is to flush toxins out of the body, and chemo drugs are toxins, then it would make sense to want to avoid anything that flushes them out of the system too early.Every Dr I've seen has suggested I take nothing more than a well rounded multi-vitamin. I also have to take calcium with vitamin D because I can't be on HRT and I need to keep my bones strong. Good luck to you and you do what you think is right for your body.
Becky

[Jatoo]

Dear Rachael,

I hope you all the best in your new treatment. I am just wondering what drug you'll be getting.

I don't think there is any study that says antioxidants will interrupt with chemo. Each chemo/drug has its own mechanism. Doxil for example is an encapsulated doxorubicin that lingers longer in the body than a regular doxorubicin. Antiangiogeneses drugs have another mechanism - it stops food supplies of tumors and from forming new ones (vessels). So how will antioxidants interfere with these mechanisms. On the other hand, it is sensible to say that a weak immune is easy prey to cancer. Which is another way to say that stress contributes to the growth of tumors?

Thanks
Jatoo

[Helmar]

Hi Rachael...Maybe I'm different to a lot of others, but I've never taken any vitamins/supplements during my time since dx. I spoke to my Oncol. at the start, and he told me that I would need to ensure that if I take anything 'extra' it doesn't interfere with the treatments, so I thought I would play it safe, and just eat well. I guess I sort of believe that 'fresh is best' so I eat lots of fresh fruit and veggies, nuts, wholegrain bread, and I drink black tea, green tea, and just take in what I feel is o.k. for me. It's an individual thing, I think. You do what you are comfortable with. Some ladies don't have dairy...red meat...sugar. My Oncol. recommended some red meat for the red cells. I have milk in my tea/coffee, and I love blueberry muffins and icecream, so 'treat' myself. Personally I have a good overall diet, and I just think that a little treat here and there can't be so bad. I still have a glass of red wine with dinner... dark chocolate, as both are supposed to be high in antioxidents. I have a very active lifestyle, as I think walking, and any exercise is really good for us too.
The nurses at my clinic said that the chemo only stays in the system for a limited time, but I'm not sure about that, as with the Doxil, it was still working for me 3 months after I finished the treatments, so maybe someone could clarify this for me.
Wishing you well, and everyone here all the best....Helmar...

[SimplyStar]

Commen sense should prevail here. The imumne system gets hit hard with chemo, the drugs job is to kill the cancer cells, if there is a way to help the system be strong without endangering the process, then what is the problem?  Mayo told my daughter that the chemo is out of the body in 4 days, so if you are on the 3 week schedule, there are days when you can work on the system,  Right??  She boosted her system inbetween series, stopping 4 days prior to the next one. Actually Leslee came through her chemo very well too.