Aa
Leslee up date
Spent the afternoon with Les at the park for BD picnic, She had her 2nd Gemzar yesterday, it was delayed a week because of counts, Prior to this sha had a CA125, came back at 364, abd and vag ultra sounds were clesr, pelvic hurt like He-- she said. For the past few weeks she has been complaining of low pelvic pain, no UTI, no problem urinating, no constipation, this afternnon I asked her whether any of the doctors had mentioned bladder prolapse, she said no, but is having a cysto Monday, now I am researching prolapse and find it is caused by menopause or the loss of estrogen, Estrogen is what is needed to keep the pelvic muscles strong. Leslee refused HRT, There are 4 levels listed for bladder prolapse, if she is at level 1 then the Estrogen patch is mentioned to help build those muscles back up, they were unable to insert a cather into the bladder yesterday, altho she has no problem urinating, MY QUESTION is to you, have any of you developed bladder prolapse and what was done? To be able to read this research on the net and not hear the onocologists questioning this as a possibility of cause and effect of surgery and menopause really makes me mad. I agreee with all you ladies that there just seems to be one thing after another to pop up that these doctors are missing out on. I have taken care of "older ladies" that had complete bladder prolapse, it "hung" clear out side their vaginas, I have seen pessories inserted to hold the bladder in place, It also says that constipation, lifting heavy things, history of prolonged deliveries can weaken those muscles. We all know how that pain pills and chemo tend to cause constipation, Leslee was not warned about any of these things causing her present problem and that there were ways to prevent it. I found out about all this after I came home and have not called her, I will wait till after her cysto Monday and see what the results are. Marty
***CORRECTION***
Boy, I can tell it was very late last night when I wrote this and I should have just gone to bed and waited a day to type. I see I made a mistake.
Here is what I wrote (I Just copied the paragraph where I made some mistakes)
____________________________________________________________
"So, whereas someone who still has ovaries is going to produce some type of estrogen until (I think) something like age 80 and testosterone until around age 72 ( I would have to check on my research, but I recall being very surprised when I read this)" *** WE are okay up to here,
*********** "Leslee is not producing those hormones" ****************.
*I meant that she is not producing Estrogen and testosterone because she has no ovaries and yet, as I had mentioned, like the rest of us, she is producing some estrogen in her body, but a woman who still has ovaries produces a trickle of estrogen for quite some time after menopause
#########################################
The next part I need to clear up....
"Of course, Menopause is defined by a total reduction of estrogen and an absence of Progesterone, and there is no estrogen produced in women in menopause no matter what (OK...a tiny tiny bit from the adrenal glands, but my husband produces more progesterone than I do). "
##########################
OK...this is where I made a big mistake. I meant that certainly menopause is when the production of estrogen is greatly reduced (in normal Menopause).....BUT....(sorry) I MEANT THAT THERE IS NO PROGESTERONE PRODUCED except for that tiny bit in the adrenal glands. And, what I said about my husband, according to my research is true in that he probably produces more progesterone than I do!
##########################
OK...I am sorry. I guess my days of posting late at night are over. Which brings me to the issue of getting enough sleep :))
Once again, I am sorry for the mistake (I need to edit better, too).
Mary
Boy, I can tell it was very late last night when I wrote this and I should have just gone to bed and waited a day to type. I see I made a mistake.
Here is what I wrote (I Just copied the paragraph where I made some mistakes)
____________________________________________________________
"So, whereas someone who still has ovaries is going to produce some type of estrogen until (I think) something like age 80 and testosterone until around age 72 ( I would have to check on my research, but I recall being very surprised when I read this)" *** WE are okay up to here,
*********** "Leslee is not producing those hormones" ****************.
*I meant that she is not producing Estrogen and testosterone because she has no ovaries and yet, as I had mentioned, like the rest of us, she is producing some estrogen in her body, but a woman who still has ovaries produces a trickle of estrogen for quite some time after menopause
#########################################
The next part I need to clear up....
"Of course, Menopause is defined by a total reduction of estrogen and an absence of Progesterone, and there is no estrogen produced in women in menopause no matter what (OK...a tiny tiny bit from the adrenal glands, but my husband produces more progesterone than I do). "
##########################
OK...this is where I made a big mistake. I meant that certainly menopause is when the production of estrogen is greatly reduced (in normal Menopause).....BUT....(sorry) I MEANT THAT THERE IS NO PROGESTERONE PRODUCED except for that tiny bit in the adrenal glands. And, what I said about my husband, according to my research is true in that he probably produces more progesterone than I do!
##########################
OK...I am sorry. I guess my days of posting late at night are over. Which brings me to the issue of getting enough sleep :))
Once again, I am sorry for the mistake (I need to edit better, too).
Mary
One thing that Leslie may also be interested in asking about is electrostimulation test. As I mentioned on a seperate post, I had very little feeling below my navel since the surgery a year ago and it is only very slowly coming back. As a result I have absolutely no feeling about fullness from either bladder or bowels apart from when I am at the desperate point! Not fun. Luckily I am still on the constipated side of things! Where I am going with this is, from the bladder side kegel etc will always help support things however if the muscles higher up are weaker and without the uterus in the way (assuming leslie had a total hysterectomy) the bladder can shift (noone had told me about the hormone link though). I was told that if I wanted some assistance with feeling and muscle strength/control I could try electrostimulation to stimulate nerve activity and enhanced proprioceptive feedback (similar to taping ankles to prevent injury by making the body more 'aware' of the ankle). I guess this is similar to when they put electic pads on muscle injuries to help healing. Not sure if this would be of benefit but atleast it is not instrusive. I was refered to a reconstructive gyneacologist to discuss this but to be honest didn't want to add another doctor in the mix quite yet......
OK....all due respect to my big sister. She is 13 years older than I am. She is rather amazing, too. When she is not twirling her batton, she is in her tap dancing class or flying across the country giving seminars (Nursing specialty) on caring for the elderly yet she is "retired." Amazing.
Mary
Mary
Hi Marty,
Thanks for the compliment but I honestly wish I knew more...and, that the WORLD knew more, you know? I mean...there is so much information out there and it is often conflicting. But, as you know, you will do the research and you will share it with Leslee and Leslee will speak with the doctors and then you will trust your gut as to the next move. I know you know this....I just wish I could make it easier for you (for Leslee).
I recall my Mom sort of sailing through menopause, too, but then she had 5 children and two of us were very young (Mom was 42 when her fourth child was born and 44 when I was born). But, then again, that dang surgical menopause is not the most pleasant type of menopause. So, whereas someone who still has ovaries is going to produce some type of estrogen until (I think) something like age 80 and testosterone until around age 72 ( I would have to check on my research, but I recall being very surprised when I read this) Leslee is not producing those hormones. Of course, Menopause is defined by a total reduction of estrogen and an absence of Progesterone, and there is no estrogen produced in women in menopause no matter what (OK...a tiny tiny bit from the adrenal glands, but my husband produces more progesterone than I do). WHAT IS MY POINT (!) ....I will say, that I can totally tell when I am off balance hormonally aside from the physical symptoms...My Multi-tasking days are pretty much over and it takes me longer to learn new things and to process information (I thoroughly attribute this to hormone changes) and then add to that the Chemo that Leslee is going through....I cannot imagine, but my heart goes out to her and to all going through this)....
The reason I mentioned the body type is that regardless of how one got to Menopause, naturally or surgically, there are body types that have more estrogen than others naturally (My understanding).....
Dr. Erika Schwartz does an excellent job of explaning how we got into this hormone mess in the first place compared to what our Mom's went through. It is her book "Natural Hormone Balance." She talks of how the world has been changed and how the fact that our foods have more hormones in them, and also how because wemen are having fewer babies, there is less progesterone in many women altogether (I am having a brain freeze...it seems to me though that the more children you have, the easier menopause might be for you.). I have lived a pretty clean life, eating healthfully and doing aerobics since '82 and frankly, I was stunned when I started having the cervical dysplasias and the cysts, etc., And, that is why I have paid more attention to the whole "Estrogen Dominance" theory. The doctor I work with now is totally sold on that theory and says no matter how big or how little the gap between the amount of estrogen and the amount of Bio Progesterone in a woman's body, well, there is going to be a problem.
Having said that, there are going to be other theories out there that totally dispute that.
I KNOW>...................IT IS CRAZY MAKING. And, I hate to say that, but it is true.
If the doctors in the field are arguing about this, what is a woman from a Minneapolis Suburb supposed to do? You know what I mean.....
But, see what the doctor says. I would not be comfortable even trying to hazard a guess as to what the Oncologist might say about all of this. There may be interactions between some of the hormones and some of the treatments Leslee must use that I certainly would not be aware of, but I am sure you can understand my level of confidence in this area.
What would the doctor say about testosterone? That can help with tightening the bladder area (vaginal area) as well as mood and sensitivity to loud noises as well as chemical sensitivities. Using just a tiny amount for women is sometimes helpful. I have no idea what the doctor would say, but it worth asking about. A tiny bit of estrogen just in the vaginal area is known to be non-systemic and might help tighten up that area. But, as I understand it, Leslee is just now being tested to see if in fact there is a bladder issue? right? She has had no leaking...just discomfort? And, I know you are all looking into the possibility that this is something else.
Having said that.... I would just keep this information for future use. Hopefully you will get some answers this week.
I can post on my Profile what I use. It is not a formula for everyone but over the years it has given me relief even though I am still "Tweaking" constantly, it seems. Ah well.
One more thing, I was not familiar with the Levels of Prolapse. But, then again, I only saw the OB/GYN Urologist once and we did only one test. I felt I was not treated professionally and refused to go back. I hope that on my part that has not been a stupid mistake, but so far, my issue is manageable if a pain in the neck. My sister had bladder issues (hysterectomy ....total....about 18 yrs ago) and she had Bio-feedback for it and she does not wear a pad. She is 13 years ago and twirls a batton in a marching band. I am jealous!
Take care,
Mary
Thanks for the compliment but I honestly wish I knew more...and, that the WORLD knew more, you know? I mean...there is so much information out there and it is often conflicting. But, as you know, you will do the research and you will share it with Leslee and Leslee will speak with the doctors and then you will trust your gut as to the next move. I know you know this....I just wish I could make it easier for you (for Leslee).
I recall my Mom sort of sailing through menopause, too, but then she had 5 children and two of us were very young (Mom was 42 when her fourth child was born and 44 when I was born). But, then again, that dang surgical menopause is not the most pleasant type of menopause. So, whereas someone who still has ovaries is going to produce some type of estrogen until (I think) something like age 80 and testosterone until around age 72 ( I would have to check on my research, but I recall being very surprised when I read this) Leslee is not producing those hormones. Of course, Menopause is defined by a total reduction of estrogen and an absence of Progesterone, and there is no estrogen produced in women in menopause no matter what (OK...a tiny tiny bit from the adrenal glands, but my husband produces more progesterone than I do). WHAT IS MY POINT (!) ....I will say, that I can totally tell when I am off balance hormonally aside from the physical symptoms...My Multi-tasking days are pretty much over and it takes me longer to learn new things and to process information (I thoroughly attribute this to hormone changes) and then add to that the Chemo that Leslee is going through....I cannot imagine, but my heart goes out to her and to all going through this)....
The reason I mentioned the body type is that regardless of how one got to Menopause, naturally or surgically, there are body types that have more estrogen than others naturally (My understanding).....
Dr. Erika Schwartz does an excellent job of explaning how we got into this hormone mess in the first place compared to what our Mom's went through. It is her book "Natural Hormone Balance." She talks of how the world has been changed and how the fact that our foods have more hormones in them, and also how because wemen are having fewer babies, there is less progesterone in many women altogether (I am having a brain freeze...it seems to me though that the more children you have, the easier menopause might be for you.). I have lived a pretty clean life, eating healthfully and doing aerobics since '82 and frankly, I was stunned when I started having the cervical dysplasias and the cysts, etc., And, that is why I have paid more attention to the whole "Estrogen Dominance" theory. The doctor I work with now is totally sold on that theory and says no matter how big or how little the gap between the amount of estrogen and the amount of Bio Progesterone in a woman's body, well, there is going to be a problem.
Having said that, there are going to be other theories out there that totally dispute that.
I KNOW>...................IT IS CRAZY MAKING. And, I hate to say that, but it is true.
If the doctors in the field are arguing about this, what is a woman from a Minneapolis Suburb supposed to do? You know what I mean.....
But, see what the doctor says. I would not be comfortable even trying to hazard a guess as to what the Oncologist might say about all of this. There may be interactions between some of the hormones and some of the treatments Leslee must use that I certainly would not be aware of, but I am sure you can understand my level of confidence in this area.
What would the doctor say about testosterone? That can help with tightening the bladder area (vaginal area) as well as mood and sensitivity to loud noises as well as chemical sensitivities. Using just a tiny amount for women is sometimes helpful. I have no idea what the doctor would say, but it worth asking about. A tiny bit of estrogen just in the vaginal area is known to be non-systemic and might help tighten up that area. But, as I understand it, Leslee is just now being tested to see if in fact there is a bladder issue? right? She has had no leaking...just discomfort? And, I know you are all looking into the possibility that this is something else.
Having said that.... I would just keep this information for future use. Hopefully you will get some answers this week.
I can post on my Profile what I use. It is not a formula for everyone but over the years it has given me relief even though I am still "Tweaking" constantly, it seems. Ah well.
One more thing, I was not familiar with the Levels of Prolapse. But, then again, I only saw the OB/GYN Urologist once and we did only one test. I felt I was not treated professionally and refused to go back. I hope that on my part that has not been a stupid mistake, but so far, my issue is manageable if a pain in the neck. My sister had bladder issues (hysterectomy ....total....about 18 yrs ago) and she had Bio-feedback for it and she does not wear a pad. She is 13 years ago and twirls a batton in a marching band. I am jealous!
Take care,
Mary
All I can say is that you need to get a job teaching homones. I printed this out and will read it through sentance by sentance, till I understand it. If it is true about getting the hormone "doses" levels from your Mother, like I said I never had any menopause problems except stopping the periods, my Mother had no problems with menopause either . . Les has taken no HRT, she has had some hot flashes but not to the point that it really bothered her. Hate to ask her the real personal questions, about sex and dryness, that is none of my business, she is going to ask about the patch tomorrow, give me some good suggestions as to what might benefit her the most, should she get the hormone level tests done before starting anything? I am a complete blank on all this. Are there some brands that are better than others? She had a really bad night last night, we don't know if it is the hormone thing or the Gemzar. Her counts almost bottom out after the first 2 then it takes the full 2weeks before the next series to rebuild the cells. She told me they double puimped her last one Friday, they want the chemo in in 30 minutes. The are using the saline drip to help prevent the veins burning. I asked her today about chemo brain, and she does have some episodes of it, mainly when she does not make a shopping list. Going to a room and forgetting why she went there. she mentioned this at the clinic and their answer was, Oh that will pass, sometimes 6 to 12 months after your last chemo. DUH. Thanks Mary will get to work on understanding this. Marty
OK...this is it. I have cut and pasted from another "essay" of mine on hormones. I have spent much time these past few months trying to wrap my brain around some new information, and I will say that the more I read the more I know that there are no black and white answers as far as I am concerned. At some point, I have to go with my gut...hopefully it is an educated gut.....I will keep you all posted over the next few months.
*********************************************************************************************
There are two blood values that are considered essential to understand before you can look for information to help you find your real reading for estrogen. They are Insulin and Thyroid. Mine were good (I do take thyroid med) but the doctor was glad both those hormones were at a good value since we now know we may only have to Tweak other hormones. They don't want to tweak too much at a time. He stressed that if the Thyroid is out of whack, even if it is just the t-3, it will give an inaccurate reading of the estrogen...and, this is where I am still confused, but I think he said that the estrogen will "feed into the thryoid." ......OK...I am not totally comfortable printing that, because I am not certain of that translation, but do check this area out and see if your doctor agrees.
**************************************************************************************************
The doctor also paid A LOT of attention to the Sex Hormone Binding Globulin which is a huge indicator for what is really happening to our bodies on the inside. He said that we could show a blood value of say, 20 for estrogen, on the blood test..........
This means that this is the (Estrogen) value floating around in our body on a given day, but says NOTHING of the fact that the real number could be 900 (estrogen amount attached to the cell) since every cell has a receptor for estrogen and there is no way to test this so you have to look at other test results. But it is this amount we really wish to know, but at this point there is no exact test for that, so they look at the Sex hormone....more on that now.
My doctor thinks my number for estrogen even though it sounds low, is too high based on that Sex Binding Hormone Globulin......SHBG because that was on the very high end of the range.
**********************************************
Too much estrogen in my system right now is causing the blood vessels to work incorrectly and this is creating problems with my bladder and my digestive tract, too. And, because I was too low in Testosterone, and too high in estrogen (based on that SHBG AND now that we know my insulin and thyroid is okay because they all effect estrogen), and I was not balancing it all with Progesterone, this was also causing a problem with my cells which were having problems creating Nitric oxide and that was causing the horrific leg cramping that I was having and have had on and off for a few years.
One thing that was interesting is that my cortisol is very high (top of the range) yet my blood pressure is great. Doctor said that cortisol levels can also be indicative of too much estrogen (unbalanced)....so, adding the progesterone SLOWLY back into my system and also going just a bit higher in the testosterone, should help with that. I also need more sleep and more of my deep breathing, which has been very helpful in my life in general.
On the weight issue, the doctor reminded me that estrogen (not a bad hormone...just needs balancing) prepares the body for pregnancy (because it does not know if a woman has ovaries or not) and that the estrogen is coming not only from Fat...it also comes from our Brains, our Liver, and our Kidneys (all Estrodial except for the by-product from fat which is Estrone). MAN....news to me! So, the part that the progesterone plays is that it calms, keeps weight stable (as if to say, "we need to keep this pregnant woman calm and help her not gain too much weight). Plus, he said that, or course, the level we want to get me to is like...what.... a level of 4 or so whereas woman in pregnancy are at levels in the hundreds. So, the amount I will have in my body is going to be low comparatively speaking.
Already over the past week, I have had relief from the leg cramps.....There is hope.
Mary
*********************************************************************************************
There are two blood values that are considered essential to understand before you can look for information to help you find your real reading for estrogen. They are Insulin and Thyroid. Mine were good (I do take thyroid med) but the doctor was glad both those hormones were at a good value since we now know we may only have to Tweak other hormones. They don't want to tweak too much at a time. He stressed that if the Thyroid is out of whack, even if it is just the t-3, it will give an inaccurate reading of the estrogen...and, this is where I am still confused, but I think he said that the estrogen will "feed into the thryoid." ......OK...I am not totally comfortable printing that, because I am not certain of that translation, but do check this area out and see if your doctor agrees.
**************************************************************************************************
The doctor also paid A LOT of attention to the Sex Hormone Binding Globulin which is a huge indicator for what is really happening to our bodies on the inside. He said that we could show a blood value of say, 20 for estrogen, on the blood test..........
This means that this is the (Estrogen) value floating around in our body on a given day, but says NOTHING of the fact that the real number could be 900 (estrogen amount attached to the cell) since every cell has a receptor for estrogen and there is no way to test this so you have to look at other test results. But it is this amount we really wish to know, but at this point there is no exact test for that, so they look at the Sex hormone....more on that now.
My doctor thinks my number for estrogen even though it sounds low, is too high based on that Sex Binding Hormone Globulin......SHBG because that was on the very high end of the range.
**********************************************
Too much estrogen in my system right now is causing the blood vessels to work incorrectly and this is creating problems with my bladder and my digestive tract, too. And, because I was too low in Testosterone, and too high in estrogen (based on that SHBG AND now that we know my insulin and thyroid is okay because they all effect estrogen), and I was not balancing it all with Progesterone, this was also causing a problem with my cells which were having problems creating Nitric oxide and that was causing the horrific leg cramping that I was having and have had on and off for a few years.
One thing that was interesting is that my cortisol is very high (top of the range) yet my blood pressure is great. Doctor said that cortisol levels can also be indicative of too much estrogen (unbalanced)....so, adding the progesterone SLOWLY back into my system and also going just a bit higher in the testosterone, should help with that. I also need more sleep and more of my deep breathing, which has been very helpful in my life in general.
On the weight issue, the doctor reminded me that estrogen (not a bad hormone...just needs balancing) prepares the body for pregnancy (because it does not know if a woman has ovaries or not) and that the estrogen is coming not only from Fat...it also comes from our Brains, our Liver, and our Kidneys (all Estrodial except for the by-product from fat which is Estrone). MAN....news to me! So, the part that the progesterone plays is that it calms, keeps weight stable (as if to say, "we need to keep this pregnant woman calm and help her not gain too much weight). Plus, he said that, or course, the level we want to get me to is like...what.... a level of 4 or so whereas woman in pregnancy are at levels in the hundreds. So, the amount I will have in my body is going to be low comparatively speaking.
Already over the past week, I have had relief from the leg cramps.....There is hope.
Mary
I have put off answering the last question you asked because it is so truely confusing. Sorry, but lately I have been feeling overwhelmed myself and so I can only imagine going through this for the first time.
First of all, I never sent the info from Paula Phelps because it was very interesting but would only pertain to women with ovaries (the issue on estrogen and vasular issues that I mentioned above).
There are tests that can give information on levels, but it gets very tricky. I will have to cut/copy and paste some new information that explains this and I hope that my translation is adequate. I will do this in another post on this thread.
It is just that we are all so very different. Think of the tall "model types" ....tall women who work in fashion magazines, now according to Dr. Reiss, these women are typically very low in Estrogen and can suffer from some low level depression. They found that adding a little bit of estrogen (bio only and nothing orally) these women felt better. Then there is ME...yours truely. I will never ever be certain of this, but I would bet money on the fact that I have always had more estrogen in my system than I needed and I wonder at times if what I think is true...that I have been deficient in progesterone for years (based on Body type for sure and weight issues....etc) and I also wonder if this played a part in my fertility or lack there-of (one child ...many attempts). I will never know.
There is a recent study from about two years ago that suggested that we get our "doses" if you will, of hormones from our biological Mothers. Well, in my case, except for the fertility issue (five children for my Mom) I am very much like my (now deceased) Mother. I will reprint some of this in your newer post, but my Mom had one ovary and never had a hysterectomy but had surgery for a Prolapsed bladder...so, is it hereditary? I don't know.
Then there is the whole Blood testing/Saliva testing issue. There is no good answer on this. They both are not terribly great, but it is what it is and so you go with what the doctor offers. I do blood tests.
What I am trying to say is that there is no normal really, as far as I have heard. I would actually love to be wrong on this. Different groups say different things.
I will get the other information that I have written up....about testing and trying to find the real numbers as far as estrogen levels, etc.
Mary
First of all, I never sent the info from Paula Phelps because it was very interesting but would only pertain to women with ovaries (the issue on estrogen and vasular issues that I mentioned above).
There are tests that can give information on levels, but it gets very tricky. I will have to cut/copy and paste some new information that explains this and I hope that my translation is adequate. I will do this in another post on this thread.
It is just that we are all so very different. Think of the tall "model types" ....tall women who work in fashion magazines, now according to Dr. Reiss, these women are typically very low in Estrogen and can suffer from some low level depression. They found that adding a little bit of estrogen (bio only and nothing orally) these women felt better. Then there is ME...yours truely. I will never ever be certain of this, but I would bet money on the fact that I have always had more estrogen in my system than I needed and I wonder at times if what I think is true...that I have been deficient in progesterone for years (based on Body type for sure and weight issues....etc) and I also wonder if this played a part in my fertility or lack there-of (one child ...many attempts). I will never know.
There is a recent study from about two years ago that suggested that we get our "doses" if you will, of hormones from our biological Mothers. Well, in my case, except for the fertility issue (five children for my Mom) I am very much like my (now deceased) Mother. I will reprint some of this in your newer post, but my Mom had one ovary and never had a hysterectomy but had surgery for a Prolapsed bladder...so, is it hereditary? I don't know.
Then there is the whole Blood testing/Saliva testing issue. There is no good answer on this. They both are not terribly great, but it is what it is and so you go with what the doctor offers. I do blood tests.
What I am trying to say is that there is no normal really, as far as I have heard. I would actually love to be wrong on this. Different groups say different things.
I will get the other information that I have written up....about testing and trying to find the real numbers as far as estrogen levels, etc.
Mary
Hi Marty,
I'm sorry that Les is dealing with this too. I hope that doing this research will bring you closer to an answer for her.
Mary...you are SUCH a wealth of information. Thank you for sharing it with us. I hope that it helps Marty and Les.
Take care you both,
L
I'm sorry that Les is dealing with this too. I hope that doing this research will bring you closer to an answer for her.
Mary...you are SUCH a wealth of information. Thank you for sharing it with us. I hope that it helps Marty and Les.
Take care you both,
L
Wow! Very impressive. Over the last month I've been having bladder issues have had start buying those darn pads. I really thought after having everything removed buying feminine products was a thing of the past. LOL!! I cannot take HRT due to blood clotting issues. *Sigh* Kind of nice to know I'm not going crazy and I'm not alone. I was thinking at the age of 43 I would be buying Depends by the case or something. Sheesh.
I haven't seen my doctor yet, this was all so sudden, but I think I'll make an appointment soon. Heck, I didn't even know there were gyn/uro. I'll start with my gyn and work from there. Thanks!!!
Star: My thoughts and prayers as always to Leslee. Hopes she gets some relief soon.
I haven't seen my doctor yet, this was all so sudden, but I think I'll make an appointment soon. Heck, I didn't even know there were gyn/uro. I'll start with my gyn and work from there. Thanks!!!
Star: My thoughts and prayers as always to Leslee. Hopes she gets some relief soon.
this is probably a stupid question that I should research myself but I am wondering now, is there anywhere info on the correct balance of hormones for a normal woman? and if so , tests that can read the balance in the individual, to bring it all into focus so that the depleted balance is brought into correct lines. I never had to deal with hormones, went thru menopause without a hot flash or any ripples, { just clean living } I guess lol I asked Leslee over a month ago to get her estrogen levels tested, she never remembers to ask them. This could possibly bring that to the forefront now. what she was so excited about today was to tell us all, that she has started to lose some of that chemo fat she has collected. I imagine the balance for a normal woman also depends on a lot of different factors, weight being one of them. We need a health page on body rolling, and adhesions, so we can refer the posters there for good details. Marty
Thanks, Star. I forgot to mention something. I am doing a second round of Physical therapy for that ruptured disc that was dx. last Summer and I really like this new Physical Therapist. She was teaching me some new exercises to be done on that big ball...anyway, we were talking about building core strength and I said something about doing "Crunches" and I said that I preferred working the core from the "other end" meaning I would rather do an exercise with my legs that would help the ab/core area and she gave me some interesting advice. She said that no woman after the age of 40 should do "Crunches" since that move can Push down that area and cause bladder issues. YES! I knew I hated Crunches for a reason!
The other thing is that I like your idea of finding a specialist to work with. YES....do that. I am not trying to sound negative, but I will say that sometimes (from at least what I have found from literature) is that it is difficult to find complete agreement on many of the hormone issues, but we all know that knowledge is power, so you get all the info you can and then let your intuition guide you, I guess....also saying, go with the advice that sets well with you....trust in the person who is helping is part of that....as is keeping an open mind.
The part that is driving me crazy is the fact that sometimes it is hard to tell if a symptom is being caused by too much of a hormone, or not enough. That is kind of what I am going through now as I try to wrap my head around what my hormone doctor had to say this week. So, even though, as I understand it, estrogen can keep that area supple, which we all know, well...too much can effect the vascular system and cause problems. I wonder if Leslee is experiencing pain in the pelvic region from something like that....A GUESS...JUST A GUESS....something to question, perhaps. Also....ask about this....
When I mentioned my legs getting those horrible cramps again (I had them two years ago and when I added more progesterone to the mix of hormones, I got relief, but it could be that I was just then balanced. This doctor the other day said there are times when the hormonal situation, if it is not ideal, will cause the cells to NOT make Nictric Oxide and that this is what was causing the cramping. Now, having written that, I am not going to get a Pulitzer Prize or anything, because I am in the stage of my learning (about this) where I am not sure I explained that correctly and so I need to address that to you, Star, and to anyone else who reads this. But, I found it very interesting that there could be an aswer to the leg cramping and such.....I will have to ask the doctor to explain this again to me next time I go in two months from now.
I will pull up the few lines from the article that Paula Phelps sent me that go into more detail about the vasular issue...I will get the name of the article, too.
Thanks, Mary
The other thing is that I like your idea of finding a specialist to work with. YES....do that. I am not trying to sound negative, but I will say that sometimes (from at least what I have found from literature) is that it is difficult to find complete agreement on many of the hormone issues, but we all know that knowledge is power, so you get all the info you can and then let your intuition guide you, I guess....also saying, go with the advice that sets well with you....trust in the person who is helping is part of that....as is keeping an open mind.
The part that is driving me crazy is the fact that sometimes it is hard to tell if a symptom is being caused by too much of a hormone, or not enough. That is kind of what I am going through now as I try to wrap my head around what my hormone doctor had to say this week. So, even though, as I understand it, estrogen can keep that area supple, which we all know, well...too much can effect the vascular system and cause problems. I wonder if Leslee is experiencing pain in the pelvic region from something like that....A GUESS...JUST A GUESS....something to question, perhaps. Also....ask about this....
When I mentioned my legs getting those horrible cramps again (I had them two years ago and when I added more progesterone to the mix of hormones, I got relief, but it could be that I was just then balanced. This doctor the other day said there are times when the hormonal situation, if it is not ideal, will cause the cells to NOT make Nictric Oxide and that this is what was causing the cramping. Now, having written that, I am not going to get a Pulitzer Prize or anything, because I am in the stage of my learning (about this) where I am not sure I explained that correctly and so I need to address that to you, Star, and to anyone else who reads this. But, I found it very interesting that there could be an aswer to the leg cramping and such.....I will have to ask the doctor to explain this again to me next time I go in two months from now.
I will pull up the few lines from the article that Paula Phelps sent me that go into more detail about the vasular issue...I will get the name of the article, too.
Thanks, Mary
Hey thanks Mary, copied this out and will see if any of this fits what they will suggest for her. Since surgical menopause is a given with OVCA, adding a hormone specialist to the team in the beginning would make sense to me.
I will comment and hope in some way it helps as you research this issue. It is certainly a very confusing one. It is and has been an issue for me.
I had to see a Urologist in 1998 because I was going crazy having to urinate what seemed like all the time. For me, I would go...and, then like a minute later, I would go again, and often, a minute after that, more "going." Now, having said that, I am known notoriously in my family as the one with bladder issues. My Mom told me years ago that they started to carry a little pot in the car when we would go on road trips when I was little since I had to go so frequently and in those days, you drove for miles on the Eastern turnpikes with few bathrooms available. We would stop in a field and Mom and I would go behind some trees along with that little pot. Ok...I digress...
Anyway, the doctor in 1998 said I was "fine." I did not feel fine. I did all the things they asked of me regarding caffeine, stopping liquids in the early early afternoon, etc. So, I figured it was just me. Then, right before my Radical hysterectomy in 2000, I had to see another Urologist since my Oncologist said that if there was a problem, they would have a Urologist there during my surgery so that they could take care of any prolapse issues.
I was not leaking and I did not have the type of problems that happen when you sneeze or laugh or cough you leaked urine...so, I was a bit of a difficult case. Difficult, too, because even planning a walk around the neighborhood was hard to plan since I knew I would be uncomfortable soon, and, that was the case about 50% of the time.
The Urologist again could not find any problems. Again, I thought...right...hey, I am not making this stuff up. There is SOMETHING going on!
Then came the surgery and as you all know, the Oncologist started me on the Estradial patch the day after my surgery. Having a steady stream of estrogen (in my opinion) must have done the trick, because........
No bladder issues for some time. Hmmm...now, I did have dryness...I had not known how dibilitating that could be. I am not talking about the sexual issue..I found it difficult to walk. I could FEEL the dryness and it was not a good feeling. I started to occasionally use Estriol from a Compounder. I used it vaginally and was comfortable with this since my research indicated more than once that the Estrogen would not be spread systemically since I did not want to "add" estrogen to my estrogen. Hope that made sense. And, it helped. Still...no bladder issues really to speak of. Maybe a tiny tiny bit of a feeling that I could not void completely, but I did not need to wear a pad.
OK...I did not use the estrogen vaginally consistently and yet I was still on the Vivelle patch. Then, about three or four years later, the bladder issues started big time. Let's just say that for the past four years I have worn a pad every day. I can still tell to this day when things are getting worse and I need to improve my hormonal balance...my stream goes haywire, that is the only way I can describe it.
I saw an OB/GYN Urologist (they are hard to come by, by the way...at least in this area) about four years ago. I baffled this doctor, too, who wanted to test test test test...and, after a less than pleasant doctor's visit the first time I went, I held off and so that brings us to where we are today.
I still have leaking but I don't have dryness. I leak sitting still. I can cough with the best of them...nothing. But, leaking...yes. I could add the non-systemic Estrogen (either the stuff from the compounder or the FDA approved Estrace) but I just haven't been doing that and I cannot even tell you why ....I guess because it is a bit better than it could be but I always have it in the back of my mind that I will someday have to have the Prolapse surgery, but for now we are still trying to fix it hormonally.
My thought (Hope you're still with me :)) is that since Women produce estrogen from the fat in their body (Estrone) as well as produce Estrodial from the Kidneys, the Brain, and the Liver (this news is new to me) Leslee could be going through what I am currently going through. I might have been able to stave it off longer just by virtue of the fact that I made the decision to use the bioidentical hormones. For me, that was the only decision, but I know that not everyone will go that route. What is happening to me now is that I have too much estrogen in my body and that means that my blood vessels are effected. I can put up some information here that speaks more medically eloquently than I can and it is from information sent to me by Paula Phelps (Thanks Paula). So, in my case, we are working on lowering the amount of estrogen since my insulin and thyroid are both stable (thyroid had been a problem and the estrogen count effects that) and we are making sure that I am using the Testosterone and Progesterone. It is always something....too much or too little estrogen seems to cause problems, but I will say that this area confuses me. So, at first, I had too little (as in Perimenopause) and now I have too much. Geez...
There is one doctor who has written hormone books who claims that Progesterone (bio of course) is not utilized well by women without ovaries, but after spending two hours this past week with my hormone doctor and doing more research, I am not buying into that theory now...I need to get balanced so that I can remedy this bladder/digestive/leg cramping issue that has bothered me for some time now.
WHEW.
OK..that is it for now. I hope I edited this well.....
Take care, Mary
I had to see a Urologist in 1998 because I was going crazy having to urinate what seemed like all the time. For me, I would go...and, then like a minute later, I would go again, and often, a minute after that, more "going." Now, having said that, I am known notoriously in my family as the one with bladder issues. My Mom told me years ago that they started to carry a little pot in the car when we would go on road trips when I was little since I had to go so frequently and in those days, you drove for miles on the Eastern turnpikes with few bathrooms available. We would stop in a field and Mom and I would go behind some trees along with that little pot. Ok...I digress...
Anyway, the doctor in 1998 said I was "fine." I did not feel fine. I did all the things they asked of me regarding caffeine, stopping liquids in the early early afternoon, etc. So, I figured it was just me. Then, right before my Radical hysterectomy in 2000, I had to see another Urologist since my Oncologist said that if there was a problem, they would have a Urologist there during my surgery so that they could take care of any prolapse issues.
I was not leaking and I did not have the type of problems that happen when you sneeze or laugh or cough you leaked urine...so, I was a bit of a difficult case. Difficult, too, because even planning a walk around the neighborhood was hard to plan since I knew I would be uncomfortable soon, and, that was the case about 50% of the time.
The Urologist again could not find any problems. Again, I thought...right...hey, I am not making this stuff up. There is SOMETHING going on!
Then came the surgery and as you all know, the Oncologist started me on the Estradial patch the day after my surgery. Having a steady stream of estrogen (in my opinion) must have done the trick, because........
No bladder issues for some time. Hmmm...now, I did have dryness...I had not known how dibilitating that could be. I am not talking about the sexual issue..I found it difficult to walk. I could FEEL the dryness and it was not a good feeling. I started to occasionally use Estriol from a Compounder. I used it vaginally and was comfortable with this since my research indicated more than once that the Estrogen would not be spread systemically since I did not want to "add" estrogen to my estrogen. Hope that made sense. And, it helped. Still...no bladder issues really to speak of. Maybe a tiny tiny bit of a feeling that I could not void completely, but I did not need to wear a pad.
OK...I did not use the estrogen vaginally consistently and yet I was still on the Vivelle patch. Then, about three or four years later, the bladder issues started big time. Let's just say that for the past four years I have worn a pad every day. I can still tell to this day when things are getting worse and I need to improve my hormonal balance...my stream goes haywire, that is the only way I can describe it.
I saw an OB/GYN Urologist (they are hard to come by, by the way...at least in this area) about four years ago. I baffled this doctor, too, who wanted to test test test test...and, after a less than pleasant doctor's visit the first time I went, I held off and so that brings us to where we are today.
I still have leaking but I don't have dryness. I leak sitting still. I can cough with the best of them...nothing. But, leaking...yes. I could add the non-systemic Estrogen (either the stuff from the compounder or the FDA approved Estrace) but I just haven't been doing that and I cannot even tell you why ....I guess because it is a bit better than it could be but I always have it in the back of my mind that I will someday have to have the Prolapse surgery, but for now we are still trying to fix it hormonally.
My thought (Hope you're still with me :)) is that since Women produce estrogen from the fat in their body (Estrone) as well as produce Estrodial from the Kidneys, the Brain, and the Liver (this news is new to me) Leslee could be going through what I am currently going through. I might have been able to stave it off longer just by virtue of the fact that I made the decision to use the bioidentical hormones. For me, that was the only decision, but I know that not everyone will go that route. What is happening to me now is that I have too much estrogen in my body and that means that my blood vessels are effected. I can put up some information here that speaks more medically eloquently than I can and it is from information sent to me by Paula Phelps (Thanks Paula). So, in my case, we are working on lowering the amount of estrogen since my insulin and thyroid are both stable (thyroid had been a problem and the estrogen count effects that) and we are making sure that I am using the Testosterone and Progesterone. It is always something....too much or too little estrogen seems to cause problems, but I will say that this area confuses me. So, at first, I had too little (as in Perimenopause) and now I have too much. Geez...
There is one doctor who has written hormone books who claims that Progesterone (bio of course) is not utilized well by women without ovaries, but after spending two hours this past week with my hormone doctor and doing more research, I am not buying into that theory now...I need to get balanced so that I can remedy this bladder/digestive/leg cramping issue that has bothered me for some time now.
WHEW.
OK..that is it for now. I hope I edited this well.....
Take care, Mary
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