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Injecting oxycodone
Ive been on 15mg oxycodone every six hours prn for almost a year. I hv ruptured bulging disc and almost no disc cushion between some of my lower disc. Ive been struggling with pain for ten years. With my current PM doctor ive tried ms contin percocet methadone and now duragesic 25mcg. I take a new med it seems to work for one to two weeks then it stops. I hv no idea why my body and my tolerance to pain meds happens as quick as it does hut when i go into my docs office and tell him im still in pain and the newest med is no longer working he looks at me and turns into a condescending babbling goof rattleing off how the meds should still be working. I recently asked him to increase my oxycodone to 30 and he acted like i told him to cut off his arm. So i began snorting them which again at first seemed to help some but now again im back to suffering debilitating back pain. I dont do the shopping or cooking or anything else normal ppl do...i just exsist. Ive done alot of reading on the net but yet hv i found the "right"answer to my questions so im hoping maybe i can get some advice~no lecturing plz!!~. First can i go to another pain center to see if they would be willing to adjust the ocycodone to a higher dose...will the new place not even give me any treatment advice until i sign off from my regular PM place?? Can i tell them i want to leave my current place just because they wont increase the oxys which i believe would help with all the breakthru pain im having. And lastly if i cant seek out the second opinion at a new PM place im thinking of trying to inject my oxycodones. I tried finding a vein which was a complete failure i probally stuck myself over ten times in an area were i just had blood work done a few days prior and i still couldnt get any flash back at all. Has anyone had a problem like that and did you find a vein ever? What if i shoot it directly into my muscle however its an insulin needle so it wouldnt really go into the muscle deeply. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks
You're angry and frustrated and hurting -- I get that.
Perhaps you need an opioid rotation to a different pain drug? I've been using this technique for over 20 years to fight opiate tolerance. Oxycodone to morphine to hydromorphine to fentanyl to methadone to oxymorphone to morphine to oxycodone to hydromorphine, round and round.
Oxycodone is no longer effective for me after a month or two. Talk about tolerance -- mine is amazing. Until oral fentanyl is approved for non-cancer use, I can't use that one anymore either -- I require too many patches.
So, I've got a pool of four medications to use for pain, and every year or two, I change partners. With opioid rotation, I get a big boost in pain relief, usually at a lower equivalent analgesic dose of medication.
Real pain doctors know about opioid rotation as a technique for reducing pain. Phony pain doctors do not.
Also, adding an NMDA antagonist, like Nemenda, can help slow tolerance. Some pain docs understand this, others don't see any efficacy in adding an NMDA antagonist.
I've always looked for pain docs who are open to suggestions. I need to work with my doctor.
Let me also suggest that you find a pain psychologist with whom you can build a lifetime relationship. He/she serves as another ally in your fight against pain, can provide alternatives you've never heard of, help you with finding new behaviors to reduce pain, and act as a sounding board when you need to talk with someone about your pain.
I've had many pain doctors in my long experience with chronic spine pain, but I've been with my pain psychologist for over 19 years.
Best wishes.
Perhaps you need an opioid rotation to a different pain drug? I've been using this technique for over 20 years to fight opiate tolerance. Oxycodone to morphine to hydromorphine to fentanyl to methadone to oxymorphone to morphine to oxycodone to hydromorphine, round and round.
Oxycodone is no longer effective for me after a month or two. Talk about tolerance -- mine is amazing. Until oral fentanyl is approved for non-cancer use, I can't use that one anymore either -- I require too many patches.
So, I've got a pool of four medications to use for pain, and every year or two, I change partners. With opioid rotation, I get a big boost in pain relief, usually at a lower equivalent analgesic dose of medication.
Real pain doctors know about opioid rotation as a technique for reducing pain. Phony pain doctors do not.
Also, adding an NMDA antagonist, like Nemenda, can help slow tolerance. Some pain docs understand this, others don't see any efficacy in adding an NMDA antagonist.
I've always looked for pain docs who are open to suggestions. I need to work with my doctor.
Let me also suggest that you find a pain psychologist with whom you can build a lifetime relationship. He/she serves as another ally in your fight against pain, can provide alternatives you've never heard of, help you with finding new behaviors to reduce pain, and act as a sounding board when you need to talk with someone about your pain.
I've had many pain doctors in my long experience with chronic spine pain, but I've been with my pain psychologist for over 19 years.
Best wishes.
Pain doctors do understand tolerance. The problem with high doses of opiates is that the ratio of the pain-killing benefit to the negative side effects gets worse. There comes a point where, even though you are becoming tolerant to the pain killing effects, the body cannot keep up with the required metabolism, resulting in unwanted side effects (e.g. neurotoxicity, seizures, etc.).
In the beginning, a doctor may not have a big problem jumping from a 5mg Percocet to a 10mg percocet (you may or may not notice many bad side effects, if any). But when your tolerance is such that you need several pills a day (or high-dosage fentanyl patches), increasing an already-high dose can put your body over the edge.
I know you feel like "why can't they understand I'm tolerant, and simply give me more meds." But, again, the reason is because there is an upper limit to safe opiate dosages.
I'm sorry you are in such pain.
If by any chance a new pain doctor DOES increase your dosage to whatever dosage you want, just remember that in a few days/weeks/months, that dosage won't be enough, either.
In the beginning, a doctor may not have a big problem jumping from a 5mg Percocet to a 10mg percocet (you may or may not notice many bad side effects, if any). But when your tolerance is such that you need several pills a day (or high-dosage fentanyl patches), increasing an already-high dose can put your body over the edge.
I know you feel like "why can't they understand I'm tolerant, and simply give me more meds." But, again, the reason is because there is an upper limit to safe opiate dosages.
I'm sorry you are in such pain.
If by any chance a new pain doctor DOES increase your dosage to whatever dosage you want, just remember that in a few days/weeks/months, that dosage won't be enough, either.
Well i wrote this out once and it disappeared so im gonna write it again hopefully they both do not show up after i post this one.....that wld look incredibly dumb. Better i wish you could understand the real pain my body is going thru. I dont dismiss or undermind any pain you yourself may be going thru. My ruptured back disc the bone on bone the stenosis...and i hv a disease that causes me chronic body pain on top of that. Reaching for a few tylenols in the morning just isnt going to cut it. The new pain free ,medication free,person who will be able to fly out of bed singing "oh what a beautiful morning" just doesnt seem to be in my future.....its not a copout i just dont understand why in this age and day ppl still hv to suffer with pain in there life. Really i juss wish i could go to another pain doc just to get a second opinion of what i am on and if an increase in my doses would be àppriopriate....thats all. But i know its not tha simple.Havent doctors ever heard of tolerance?????
And to phil...ty for taking time out and offering your advice. I appreciate it.
Thanks again to both of you
And to phil...ty for taking time out and offering your advice. I appreciate it.
Thanks again to both of you
There are many of us destined to live in pain the rest of our lives.
The answers lie in self-education, about our conditions, their treatments, and who can best help us.
It is a long journey, but pain is a great motivator.
However, you must stay within the rules when seeking answers. Otherwise, you risk everything, including your access to medical treatment.
I've found that a pain psychologist is a great ally for negotiating the ins and outs of pain. They help educate you on new therapies, help with behaviors that can relieve pain, and can serve as an advocate when you need it.
Best wishes.
The answers lie in self-education, about our conditions, their treatments, and who can best help us.
It is a long journey, but pain is a great motivator.
However, you must stay within the rules when seeking answers. Otherwise, you risk everything, including your access to medical treatment.
I've found that a pain psychologist is a great ally for negotiating the ins and outs of pain. They help educate you on new therapies, help with behaviors that can relieve pain, and can serve as an advocate when you need it.
Best wishes.
Thank you for taking the time to thank the responders. Good luck on everything. Remember, it's your body, and it's up to you to make your final decision. Right now, it's just about "gathering information," about what's right, and not right, for you. You may find suboxone is right, or, you may find it is wrong, and in your search, you may find something even better.
I know, and understand you are worried about being "tapered to nothing." I can understand that fear. To overcome any fear, always think of what's the worst that could happen. Let's say they do taper you down to nothing. You would have 3 days or so of withrawals that will feel like the flu (you've had the flu before, right?), and then after those withdrawals you will feel amazingly wonderful, like a brand new person, you'll feel like you now rule the whole world, and even your normal body pain will feel GOOD (this is a neat secret mystery only people that have been on narcotics, and then gotten off of them can experience!), and you will be able to actually sleep in in the morning without having to reach for the pills. So, just keep that in mind, at least so you don't worry so much if that ever happens.
Good luck!
I know, and understand you are worried about being "tapered to nothing." I can understand that fear. To overcome any fear, always think of what's the worst that could happen. Let's say they do taper you down to nothing. You would have 3 days or so of withrawals that will feel like the flu (you've had the flu before, right?), and then after those withdrawals you will feel amazingly wonderful, like a brand new person, you'll feel like you now rule the whole world, and even your normal body pain will feel GOOD (this is a neat secret mystery only people that have been on narcotics, and then gotten off of them can experience!), and you will be able to actually sleep in in the morning without having to reach for the pills. So, just keep that in mind, at least so you don't worry so much if that ever happens.
Good luck!
Ty so much for all the time and effort you put into responding to my post. Honestly i didnt think ppl cared like that anymore at least not to complete strangers. Your advice i read then reread it all over again. I will be making an annyonmous call to my pain doctors practice and see if they do sub therapy. I know from my friend who is on sub that the therapy requires a specialized doc. But onto my second fear that i mentioned hes only been going to his sub doc for a few months and they are already taking him down to 14mg.....what would i do when they take me down to nothing. Im going to pray and hope to make good clear judgements in the near future but i just wanted to thank you...seriously ty for all your advice and words of wisdom. Ty
PS....i still hv not injected ....i swear on it.
PS....i still hv not injected ....i swear on it.
No wait hold on.
No, not Suboxone for tapering, I was referring to Suboxone for pain management. Technically, it's called "buprenorphine," an excellent pain killer that is also used for dependency issues. And, also, like MaryCarmel says, the DICKENS to get off of it! So, you will definitely want to do your research. That is why I said go on Youtube and spend a whole evening or two watching people tell their Suboxone stories. It's about half and half. Some call it the devil, others swear by it. Either way, it's BETTER than injecting.
It's plain as day where you are at right now. You are in severe pain, but you cannot imagine life without the Oxy buzz.
BTW, some people are ashamed of the 'euphoria.' Did you know that the euphoria is actually one of the MECHANISMS by which opiates reduce pain? I chuckle when the old ladies indignantly say, "Ew, I don't take it to get HIGH." Well, yes, you take it for the pain, but don't put down the euphoria like that is bad or wrong.
Unfortunately, though, it is that high/euphoria that people CHASE, and THAT is what is bad! Why is it bad? Because -- read this carefully -- over time (a few weeks or so), there is LESS euphoria, but the SAME good pain relief. But, people confuse the two. "I'm not buzzed like the first time, therefore I must take more for the pain." That's where following your doctor's prescription comes in handy. Follow it perfectly. Just because there is less or no euphoria doesn't mean there is no pain relief.
You have chased "the feeling" so much that you are now extremely dependent. And, you will lose everything (and everyone) if you don't do something to control it.
Posting on a forum that "it's not 'likely' you will inject" and that you are "destined" to live a life in pain is really lame. Did you even read what you wrote?
Fight it, woman, fight it! Throw away the da*n needles this weekend, and show up at your pain docs office and say, "DOC, I'm in pain, I inject oxys, I'm addicted because I'm in pain, what do I do. Then, do what they say. You are NOT the FIRST addict who has pain.
You're thinking there's 2 groups of people: addicts who goof around recreationally, and people with real pain. Well guess what -- there's a 3rd group: addicts with pain. Doctors DO know how to handle that. And what they will do will be what's BEST for you.
I DON'T WANT TO HEAR people say "Ooooh never tell your pain management that you've been injecting, they might drop you blah blah blah." WOMAN YOU ARE INJECTING that is not cool. You have KIDS.
I'm not an "advice giver." All that I've said is not advice. It's simply food for thought.
Google:
1.) hyperalgesia
2.) Suboxone
3.) Addiction treatment in your area
Call up addiction centers (anonymously if you want) and ask them what do "people like me" do who have real pain?
Good luck!
No, not Suboxone for tapering, I was referring to Suboxone for pain management. Technically, it's called "buprenorphine," an excellent pain killer that is also used for dependency issues. And, also, like MaryCarmel says, the DICKENS to get off of it! So, you will definitely want to do your research. That is why I said go on Youtube and spend a whole evening or two watching people tell their Suboxone stories. It's about half and half. Some call it the devil, others swear by it. Either way, it's BETTER than injecting.
It's plain as day where you are at right now. You are in severe pain, but you cannot imagine life without the Oxy buzz.
BTW, some people are ashamed of the 'euphoria.' Did you know that the euphoria is actually one of the MECHANISMS by which opiates reduce pain? I chuckle when the old ladies indignantly say, "Ew, I don't take it to get HIGH." Well, yes, you take it for the pain, but don't put down the euphoria like that is bad or wrong.
Unfortunately, though, it is that high/euphoria that people CHASE, and THAT is what is bad! Why is it bad? Because -- read this carefully -- over time (a few weeks or so), there is LESS euphoria, but the SAME good pain relief. But, people confuse the two. "I'm not buzzed like the first time, therefore I must take more for the pain." That's where following your doctor's prescription comes in handy. Follow it perfectly. Just because there is less or no euphoria doesn't mean there is no pain relief.
You have chased "the feeling" so much that you are now extremely dependent. And, you will lose everything (and everyone) if you don't do something to control it.
Posting on a forum that "it's not 'likely' you will inject" and that you are "destined" to live a life in pain is really lame. Did you even read what you wrote?
Fight it, woman, fight it! Throw away the da*n needles this weekend, and show up at your pain docs office and say, "DOC, I'm in pain, I inject oxys, I'm addicted because I'm in pain, what do I do. Then, do what they say. You are NOT the FIRST addict who has pain.
You're thinking there's 2 groups of people: addicts who goof around recreationally, and people with real pain. Well guess what -- there's a 3rd group: addicts with pain. Doctors DO know how to handle that. And what they will do will be what's BEST for you.
I DON'T WANT TO HEAR people say "Ooooh never tell your pain management that you've been injecting, they might drop you blah blah blah." WOMAN YOU ARE INJECTING that is not cool. You have KIDS.
I'm not an "advice giver." All that I've said is not advice. It's simply food for thought.
Google:
1.) hyperalgesia
2.) Suboxone
3.) Addiction treatment in your area
Call up addiction centers (anonymously if you want) and ask them what do "people like me" do who have real pain?
Good luck!
Ive been thinking long and hard about it and i dont think i will be injecting my oxys anytime here in the future. Im already in pain and i figure im just destined to live in pain for the rest of my life...why complicate the situation anymore then it already is. Ty for your advice.
Ty for your colorful advice. Im aware of suboxone....i have a very close friend on it. Ive thought about going that route several times...my concern they start you off at 16mg a day and eventually taper you down until your off of it. What do i do with my pain when the suboxone is gone : (
Ty for your advice. Yes ive done PT with no improvement. Ive done epidurals which only injured my back more due to the lack of spaces in between my vertabre (sp?)the last time i had the doctor shoving the needle into my disc space and saying its just too tight in between the spaces as i sat hunched over a pillow squeezing the life out of it as pain shot down my leg as i cried out in pain. I take ibuprofen every day which i really shouldnt as im on a blood thiner for a pulmonary embolism. Ive done pulmonary rehab therapy which again did nothing to help ease my pain and ive went thru many many med changes just to try and find the right combination. Im not sure whats left except maybe a TENS unit which my doctor has yet to bring up. I just dont want to hurt anymore....
Thsnk you for the suggestions and not lecturing : )
I know in my heart i am addicted but the pain i experience from the moment i wake up and struggle just to get up to go to the bathroom ovrrides every concern or worries that lives in my heart with my addiction fear..
Ty
I know in my heart i am addicted but the pain i experience from the moment i wake up and struggle just to get up to go to the bathroom ovrrides every concern or worries that lives in my heart with my addiction fear..
Ty
Just do your research if you are thinking about suboxone. If you hope to ever come off it, the withdrawals last much longer than oxycodone withdrawals. As far as using suboxone for pain management, there are some doctors that use it, but it is not commonly used for pain management. It needs to be taken at a much higher dose and it hasn't been used often enough or long enough to know if it's good for long-time use. There are lots of non-narcotic ways to manage your pain.
Injecting any medication formulated for oral route administration is a bad idea.
You're risking major infection, arterial prolapse, and death.
You're risking major infection, arterial prolapse, and death.
I'm not a doctor, I'm just an internet dumb*ss who gets his jollies posting on forums when I should be doing real work.Don't read this unless you agree to take what I say with a grain of salt! And this is not me advising you -- it's just me saying what I would do if I was in your shoes.
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----------------------don't peek past this line unless you agree! -------------------------
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Allright, obviously you're totally hooked. EXTREMELY common and TOTALLY normal -- why do you think Oxy's are schedule TWO!
The neat thing is this is totally fixable. Obviously, the pain management system you are a part of does NOT work.
You've cleverly manipulated the pain management system to bring you where you are now. The only thing that will change by going to a different doctor or clinic will be the parking space.
So think for a second.... where's the solution (there's a solution to *everything*). The solution is something totally different than what you have been doing.
Here's what I would do: find a highly reputable suboxone doctor and bare your soul. I've heard (and read) that suboxone, given in high enough doses, will do two things: 1.) do a GREAT job at stopping pain (it's an EXCELLENT pain reliever, maybe even better than your oxys!) and 2.) Completely take away your cravings!
Yes, it's switching from one opiate to another, BUT, you won't have to sneak around with needles, lie to doctors, and spend those SOBER moments when your oxy's are wearing off FREAKING OUT that everyone's gonna "find out."
And, again, this is NOT a "recommendation" it's just what I would do.... but I would contact ALL my doctors and let the whole world know that this is what you are doing and you want A REFERRAL to a suboxone doctor. The key is EVERYBODY knowing, everybody on board, and voila, problem solved.
You're like 'Huh? WTF is this 'suboxone'?" Go to www.youtube.com and type in "suboxone experiences" and WATCH THEM ALL. Then, talk to your docs and make a decision.
And don't be taking "advice" from people on the internet when you are obviously smart and still have enough brain-power to google things, read about them, and then consult with your own docs who have knowledge far beyond all of us put together.
I'd say "good luck" but this one's an easy one -- all you need is a phone. Stop freaking.
--------------
----------------------don't peek past this line unless you agree! -------------------------
--------------
Allright, obviously you're totally hooked. EXTREMELY common and TOTALLY normal -- why do you think Oxy's are schedule TWO!
The neat thing is this is totally fixable. Obviously, the pain management system you are a part of does NOT work.
You've cleverly manipulated the pain management system to bring you where you are now. The only thing that will change by going to a different doctor or clinic will be the parking space.
So think for a second.... where's the solution (there's a solution to *everything*). The solution is something totally different than what you have been doing.
Here's what I would do: find a highly reputable suboxone doctor and bare your soul. I've heard (and read) that suboxone, given in high enough doses, will do two things: 1.) do a GREAT job at stopping pain (it's an EXCELLENT pain reliever, maybe even better than your oxys!) and 2.) Completely take away your cravings!
Yes, it's switching from one opiate to another, BUT, you won't have to sneak around with needles, lie to doctors, and spend those SOBER moments when your oxy's are wearing off FREAKING OUT that everyone's gonna "find out."
And, again, this is NOT a "recommendation" it's just what I would do.... but I would contact ALL my doctors and let the whole world know that this is what you are doing and you want A REFERRAL to a suboxone doctor. The key is EVERYBODY knowing, everybody on board, and voila, problem solved.
You're like 'Huh? WTF is this 'suboxone'?" Go to www.youtube.com and type in "suboxone experiences" and WATCH THEM ALL. Then, talk to your docs and make a decision.
And don't be taking "advice" from people on the internet when you are obviously smart and still have enough brain-power to google things, read about them, and then consult with your own docs who have knowledge far beyond all of us put together.
I'd say "good luck" but this one's an easy one -- all you need is a phone. Stop freaking.
I don't think another pain doc will take you on if you go in asking for more oxycodone. What else do you do for the pain? Pills alone are not the way to go. There are gels, patches, ibuprofen, PT, procedures, etc. When you use several things together, you will usually get better pain relief. And of course, it's unlikely to ever get pain free. Snorting or shooting your meds in an IV is putting you on a very dangerous path that will not end well. You will eventually be found out by your doctor and will be dropped as a patient and you'll find it very hard to find anothermdoctor to treat you.
ok no lecture
oxy and other drugs used for long periods over sensitize the nerves you fell more pain and drugs work less
im adhd so they dont stick to me and never had addiction fent delodid and soma always work for most of my life
but unfortunately most dont have my luxury
you need to stop take a break your probably addicted you need to get off for a while
look into meditation martial arts focus
dont just blow these off there all that keep me from a chair and they work
find a pain clinic with alternatives
shock tens units work for some some there worthless junk
good luck
oxy and other drugs used for long periods over sensitize the nerves you fell more pain and drugs work less
im adhd so they dont stick to me and never had addiction fent delodid and soma always work for most of my life
but unfortunately most dont have my luxury
you need to stop take a break your probably addicted you need to get off for a while
look into meditation martial arts focus
dont just blow these off there all that keep me from a chair and they work
find a pain clinic with alternatives
shock tens units work for some some there worthless junk
good luck
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