Is this a joke?

[keep_praying]

I can't believe what just happened to me.

I am in shock.

Addiction and physical dependence are not the same thing.  Now I understand what can happen when these 2 terms are confused .  


THE END

[doctora]

Hi!
Im back, in one piece...LOL
Did you get your final exam result?
Have you found a new Dr?
How are you feeling?

Geez Im gone for a couple of days, and they go and chance the medhelp site format -ugh.

Let me know what's up, what did I miss?

[doctora]

Thats amazing.  Keep on singing, dont let 'em get you down.
Let us know how you manage with the new Dr, and if he/she keeps you on the same meds.
Have a great weekend - chat to you when I get back on Tues

[keep_praying]

My major?  It was CJ.. It is music now.  I sing.

[BDanny]

My own dr treats me like I'm an addict.......I take the pills for PAIN and if my pain would go away I could and would stop in a heartbeat. Sorry to hear about all this.

[doctora]

Congrats on the exam!!!  and like I said before, good choice to change Dr's. Like they say, there is no point in banging your head against the wall if the outcome is the same..drop the dr., get a new one, go over your meds with the new one, and continue your studies.
BTW what's your major?

[keep_praying]

I had all medications prescribed with me so they could see if this was the reason for the low BP. It was then obvious to me that it was from the fentanyl patch and that is all I was wanting to know. I could not stay for tests. I had an exam the next day and I did say I would stay for tests at first, but they made me wait for 45 minutes in the room and nothing was done. I did not understand that but hey, if I can be left alone for 45 min at a 60 BP then that tells me this is no emergency and I left politely and thanking them for their time,,, but yet this nurse was adament anbout telling the DR's I should not leave. It was nit clear why or what I should do but my scholarship at TCU is way too important to risk so I went home and did the best I could. I made an A on the exam the following day ( I think). My Dr. is still ignoring my calls so I have decided to search for a compassionate Dr. who does not neglect anyone that is under his or her care.

[Tuckamore]

I am glad that you added to your post so it is more understandable.

As a former member of an ER team I can tell you that unfortunately your actions in all probability made you appear guilty of something. That ER physician would have been incompetent had he not tried to find the source of your low B/P and symptoms. One can not assume the obvious, indeed doing so can get you dead! His request to begin an IV which could deliver life saving medications in an medical emergency is a normal practice in the department. As your blood volume drops (with hypo-tension or other conditions) it can be near impossible to insert an IV into a compromised vessel and precious time is lost. In order to diagnosis the reason for your symptoms a blood draw would reveal many things including the level of fentanyl in your system. This would have allowed the physician to determine the best form of treatment for your symptoms. I'm sorry but unless I am missing something this ER physician was following protocol and acting responsibly. Again I may be missing something and not have all the facts. I'm not sure what you expected him to do. Just give you some pain meds and something for sleep? He would have been irresponsible and incompetent had he just handing handed you a prescription or two or even given you medications without first an examination. You are honest but you have no idea of the ppl that come to ER to just get narcotics. There is no easy way to determine who is honest and in need of pain releif and who is not unless you have numbers to back up your diagnosis.....or unless you are familiar with the patient. I assume the ER staff did not know you either.    

A B/P has two numbers. The upper one is the systolic which reveals the pressure on your vessels as you heart muscle contracts and pumps blood through the circulatory system. The lower one, the diastolic reveals the pressure that is maintained in your vessels when you heart is at rest. Do you remember the entire number? for example 100/60 is an acceptable B/P, 60/50 is not.

I am happy to hear that some ppl can keep a prescription at their pharmacy as a back up. I have not heard of the practice. It would solve a lot of concerns.

I too am a chronic pain patient. I have been were you are though for different reasons. Even the ER I worked in will draw labs and do an examination when I present in an acute painful condition. They don't want to miss anything and I know their liability is great. Last time I went to ER to my surprise I had a huge kidney stone. I thought it was something else. So we never know and more importantly they don't know until their investigation is complete. So please don't be too hard on someone that was really trying to help you.

As far as your PMP not returning your numerous calls, in my opinion that is unacceptable. I understand that they are busy and I understand that they may get dozens of these calls a day. It may even take a day or two at the most to get back to you. Making decisions as to who gets a call back and who doesn't, again in my opinion is poor practice and risky to say the least. When you become so insensitive that you are able to ignore your patients pleas you should consider another career or at the least a change. Where is your compassion and understanding of pain management? I would change physicians. Again just my opinion.
    

[katarina777]

I am not going to say anything, but  your thoughts are free, right?
I am not even a member here!

[doctora]

Wow.
I have gone through withdrawl when I ran out of my meds over a long weekend, and it was not fun, but it didnt get bad enough that I needed to go to the hospital.

I am glad you told your dr to f-off. My Dr. is great, she makes sure that I have enough meds, and my pharmacy- the same. I always keep a backup prescription at the pharmacy just in case.

I had a stint in rehab. I was admitted for alcohol, which was a joke because that wasnt the problem, the problem was I was bi-polar, schzoaffective disorder, and those idiots initially told me 30 days, so I was going to do it for my family, who accused me of being an alcoholic, but once they had me in there, they wanted me off all my meds! and put me in for 90 days - more money for them.

I went through hell because they stopped all my pain meds immediately, and at 30 days I had to beg my family to let me out, because the rehab wouldnt listen to me...I was in thier eyes a pain med addict.

I wonder what those jerks would say now, after I have broken my back, shoulder, finger and toes due to severe osteoporosis. Would they say I should meditate!

Once you get a new Dr. make sure you have a prescription at the pharmacy as backup. I often take my pill bottles in to show my Dr that I am getting the repeat as backup, and she can see how much I have taken.

As far as your test goes, maybe considering what you have been through, you could explain and they can re-schedule it, I think they will, then there is no use in worrying your family.

[sandee1818]

I also wanted to add that in any pain management clinic there are those who need to be there and there are those who have no business there. It is left up to the doctor and the staff to weed the bad ones out of their practice. We as chronic pain Pt's know all too well what the people who divert and abuse does to us and us getting the proper treatment.
The ones who use the doctors to abuse and divert narcotics makes it so very hard on those who depend on narcotics to lead a somewhat normal life. I do not envy the doctors and staff that have to decide who is legit and who is not.It is a harsh world we live in and it is very hard to find a doctor who has not been taken advantage of therefore making it so hard on us the true legitimate Pt's.
There were some of the members of the SA communities that posted here in our community ( PM) that were sorry for the harm they caused us in taking advantage of their doctors to get narcotics. I thought that was a real eye opener for some here as they did realize how much that sort of thing effects us the CP Pt.
No one here has said keep_praying here was an addict, I just wanted to clear up why some have had doubts. As I said there are those who do abuse their doctors trust and therefore make it hard on the CP Pt and this makes some more quick to question a post like this.
No one here has meant any harm and wants to help all they can.

[kolo13]

And I'm not accusing you of being one. I just wanted to point out how difficult it is for some of these providers to sort through these issues and the degree to which they are forced to do so every day. It was someone else above who mentioned the letter and I thought it was ironic that the request itself would be a warning sign to a doctor that addiction might be a problem. I feel bad for you and your situation, I've had to deal with chronic pain (I was hit by a drunk driver who ran a red light and got a lot of injuries), dependence on medication, and finally addiction. But I do want you to know that if you tell your doctor to eff off, if you leave the ER AMA, and even if you run out of your medication early, especially if you are also complaining about it being too strong, and if your reason for running out is that you threw some away, you will get cut off and you will have nowhere to turn to. How worried will your son be when he sees you going through withdrawal? I do wish you the best. I'm not trying to be judgemental, lord knows I have no right to that, But please consider the other side of some of these interactions so you do not get hurt by them. Good luck.

[sandee1818]

Keep -Praying,
I was not insinuating your an addict. i think in your case the messages have been getting messed up on the route to the doctor. You need to go in person to resolve these types of issues as the PM doctor will not usually deal with medication changes over the phone at all. We are certainly here to support you in any way we can. As I believe I said in an earlier post if your doctor is not listening then it is time to find a new one. But also know that most doctors will not do med changes over the phone at all. I would get your PCP to refer you to another PM doctor and be sure to explain that the patch does not work for you. Dealing with pain is hard to say the least, add children that depend on you and college too and that's alot for anyone to handle. Find yourself a PM doctor that will listen to you and your lifestyle and prescribe the medications that will help you function as normally as possible.


Kolo,
Being a CP Pt you can help the doctors understand some of the issues we have to deal with and therefore make the doctors aware.
I would encourage you to do as they have asked you as I See it as a huge step in having doctors understand our views and issues.
Good luck and let us know how it goes if you choose to do it:)

[keep_praying]

No, I am not an addict. It was the physical dependence of the patch that caused the drop of blood pressure. As I mentioned, I did not want my family worried, especailly my son. I would appreicate the support. THANKS

[kolo13]

Thank you Sandee,  Dealing with pain, acute and chronic, is a big issue and they do talk about it a lot despite the fact that many providers are uncomfortable with dealing with it at all because of the difficulty in separating it from the problems with addiction.  I mean when this patient went in and demanded a letter stating she was not now nor has she ever been an addict I guarantee their first thought was, "uh-oh we have an addict", and that seemed to be confirmed when she told her doctor to eff off and split the ER AMA. And this is a really common kind of call for them, where someone is complaining that their dose is too strong but they've run out early and need a refill RIGHT NOW or they will die. More than once recently someone has told my wife that they will kill themselves if she doesn't make their doctor give them more right away. Well needless to say that is the sort of thing that gets a patient cut off, what choice do they have at that point. But anyway, my problem right now is that my wife and her medical director have asked for my input and I'm not sure what I want to tell them. In the past I have had opportunities to be an advocate for compassion and understanding of chronic pain patients, and we in fact instituted some informal extra training for some docs who were acting like all chronic pain patients were just addicts, but the situation has worsened and many of the doctors who are my friends are literally at their wits end.

[sandee1818]

Kolo,
This is what I was trying to explain in a post I made about the shortage of doctors and why there is a shortage.
We often do not take the time to see what the other persons perspective is, whether it is the nurse or the doctors. I do know that there are those "gatekeepers" that are very difficult to deal with but for the most part they just want to help the Pt.
I applaud your wife's ability to deal with the irrational Pt's and her compassion to those who need help:)

[kolo13]

You know, my wife is the CEO of a small health care company. They have a dozen community health care clinics. The doctors and administrators all agree that there is a huge problem system wide with their patients who need opiates. They get a hundred calls per day from patients who have run out or need their dose changed. These callers are so often angry and irrational. She has a lot of sympathy for them, having dealt with my issues of chronic pain and addiction. But some days she will come home crying and tell me " I was trying so hard to help but I couldn't even understand what they were angry about, they kept screaming at me and I couldn't make any sense of it. It's okay, I can take it" she says between sobs, "but when they told the doctor to eff off we had no choice but to cut them off. Now that poor person is going to be in pain and wihdrawal, but they just wouldn't let me try to help them." This is such an everyday thing that they all - my wife, her co-workers, and the doctors - are hardening up when they hear they have another angry opiate patient on the phone insisting they are going to die if they don't get help immediately. This really is taking a huge amount of time and resources. Some of the doctors have decided to simply stop prescribing opiates completely - regardless of the need. This puts even more pressure on the remaining doctors who believe that at least some of these patients need to be treated for pain. But even these doctors will say that they are so tired of being yelled at, lied to, and being played that they don't know what to do.

[Totie]

Help me understand..Your left against medical advice? Why did you refuse the I.V to begin with? Most ER doctors will not nor can they prescribe anything for pain until they know why you are in pain.

I had a kidney stone attack and in severe pain, but nurse told me they can not prescibe anything until blood work/urine test come back. Finally did, i got pain medication immediately.

Can't answer if you will be okay, you never let them run tests.

[keep_praying]

I called my Dr. last week before the weekend. I had no patches left and he will not prescribe the hydocone because it was too early. After I put the patch on for the 1st time,  I was too sleepy, my asthma was worse, I could not study for anything because my vision was blurred. So I had to take the hydocone not 1 every 6 hours but the way it was prescribed by my previous Dr. which was 2 every 4 hours. Hence why I IMMEDIATLY told my Dr. 3 weeks ago that I CAN NOT wear this patch.

He said well just wear half of it. He said to put a band aid under half of it. Well, this is not a great way to manage pain. I had to see. The half of a patch still caused me to have blurry vision.  I called the office and left a message weeks ago.. NO REPSONSE.  
I called again, NO RESPONSE. THis was a daily call and I was being ignored. He said DO NOT TAKE IT OFF, so I had to take my Algebra exam.... MADE a 40 because I could not see.   THEN i called again and LM on the answering machine. I said " I am on an academic scholarship at TCU and I can not afford to have a GPA under 3.5. I can not wear this patch. NO RESONSE. THis was going on for the past 3 weeeks. I went every WED for 18 injections and then lst week I was unable to drive to get them.
Well, since I had to see, I had no choice but to take the hydocone every 4 hours and not wear the patch but it was SUCH A MESS. I was taking the patch off and on, keeping it in the cabinet. I missed my sons games, failed another test, couldn ot study, I was really upset. Well, I ran out of hydocone, I hated the patch and sometimes I would throw a patch away after 1 day. I was sure the Dr. woud see that this was not the best way to manage my pain.
I had no more patches and I took the lasat one off. No hydocone. Nothing. I called 5 times before the weekend, no return call.    After 3 days of no sleep ( withdraws from patch) I decided to call ER. I spoke to a nurse. She said to come in.
THey took my Blood pressure.  Then I am in a wheel chair and I am going pretty fast down the hall and they are talking to me. I see the sign "TRAUMA"
My blood pressure was at 60. I was 10 points away from a coma due to taking the Fentanyl patch off and not having any opaid mecicaiton in my body. My back was KILLING me as well as my legs. ER dr wanted to start an I V and I said " is this from the patch?"   He said lets do some tests.  I said," Sir, I am a healthy 37 year old woman. I do not want to worry my family.  "He said I will not give you any medication for your back pain unless I can take blood and we start an IV on you.    I said, " I have a major test to take tomorrow. I have not slept in 3 days. I want to go home and study but I want to know if I will be ok."   I left AMA.  I am still here. I told my Dr. to F off.

[scaredmom330]

I wish she would reply and just let us know she is ok. I would like to give her any further help.

[Revcharberry]

It is Moday afternoon, How are you doing?  We are trying to understand and help you but if you don't respond then we can't .  Love.Peace and Blessings...Rev

[Tuckamore]

We are all in the dark. I did not read any post that was accusatory.

If you would clarify your statements we may be able to reply with some information.

Take Care,
Tuck

[TrayCee]

there is a V E R Y thin line between addiction and dependence.

What is clear though is that if youre out of your meds and youre sick then youre experiencing withdrawal's

[scaredmom330]

I did see but one other post by  you. you are going through withdraws. try hot showers or baths or an otc medication call hylands restful leg. all of that will help with your leg pains.

Have you talked to your doctor about maybe giving you something besides the patch? have you tried other medication?

I am sorry you feel this way, we are trying to be supporting and want to help anyway we can.

Pm me if you would like, I want to help you and answer your questions.

[sandee1818]

I am not sure what happened but the post that was made called "what in the world, I am not a doctor" was answered and very well. No one insinuated about addiction or dependence.Please explain what happened so we can take care of the problem.