Need Help With Benzo and Vic?

[Michiganguy328]

Read my profile.  I am living it now and I have learned a ton.  I'm not a Doctor, but I have 3 great Doctors working with me.  I'm on day 21 free from Vic and Benzos (Bennies), and it's pure HECK, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.  I'm not an adicit (I took everything as prescribed by my Dr), so I don't go to NA or AA, but I did attend a few meetings while I was in recovery aGood luck and keep fighting this **** every day!!!

PS - I'm suing my Doctor and writing the AMA to toughin regulations on this.

Good Luck
Gary

[Michiganguy328]

I slept 8 hours last night, I feel great, I got to work an hour early, and I end a few medications tonight.  Life is getting better every day.  Thanks for all the interest in this post (I'm taking it off my list now).

I wish everyone nothing but the best!!!

Good luck and God bless...

[leeisgettingclean]

actually your question was already answered about the sub...like everything else you refuse to listen//believe...I read quite a long reply answering your sub question by one of the community leaders on here, however you replied to what she wrote saying " you know she is wrong because you have reserched it" i think people are getting tired of talking in the wind...Good luck man

[Michiganguy328]

Once again you need to read what I wrote, which you failed to do.  I was prescribed 360 vics in one month because he changed my script 3 times in 3 weeks.  I did not take 12 pills a day as I stated above.  I rarely took the 6 a day as prescribed as is also written above.  Please take the time to read carefully before you reply.  It's good this is bringing out emotions in people; that is how we know we are alive.  Agree with me or not; I'm loving life again, I slept 7 straight hours last night, I didn't wake up with any shakes, and I still have the right to go after a doctor that harmed me with the intent of stopping him from doing it again to someone else.  

No one has yet to tell my why suboxone is so hard to get, but vics bennies, and oxy can be handed out like candy.  If suboxone is so regulated then why shouldn't vics and benzos be regulated?  So far no one has come up with a good answer for that.  Read the paper and watch the news; people are dieing every day from this stuff and it is available on the street everywhere.  These powerful and dangerous drugs need to be watched more closely.  As for insurance; I'm positive if there were specialists (like adiction doctors that can prescribe suboxone) licenced to prescribe these drugs, then the family care doctor's ins. would decrease with reduced liability.  

PS The mustang is not my every day driver :)  

[abby10]

Two years ago it was so horrible that I used to think about what body parts I would 'give up' just to make the torture go away. I came through it; I made it, not in one piece yet.

abby

[dominosarah]

So you have a headache all day long, out of breath, hissing in the ears and your hands are numb.........but you get in your new Mustang everyday and drive........hmmm

[Revcharberry]

This has my head spinnibg and yes I am even angry.  My anger comes from being a chronic pain sufferer who takes many meds just to be able to function.  You repeatedly say that you're not suuing for the money, but then mention a 'gain' in your next statement. Your worry about all of this has caused you to buy a new Mustang?? You didn't mention that the doc was increasing the benzo, you said that he prescribed you 360 per month which is about 12 per day.  Basically you don't have any responsibility in this.  You say you are intelligent I dare say you did your homework before deciding to purchase a Mustang and not Ford Focus, you purchased what would meet your needs.  If he was increasing the meds you had to have said the amt/dosage was ineffective.  Docs don't want to lose their licenses and certaily not their freedom.  You dont need to tell me to read your post as I have read them over and over again.I called my pharmacist who said that a red flag would go up on you and the doc and an investigation began.  Yet another frivolous lawsiut will cause my ins. premiums, medication to increase in price.  Docs who take their oath seriously will have to close their shutters because they can't afford the malpractice insurance.  Tell me did you really think that talking on a pain management site would get you support to sue a doc?  Stop being so defensive with us and look in the mirror and be honest with that image.  I will pray for you and your family and all those in the fallout of your choices since no one forced by IV the meds into your body.  As an intelligent man you know that you did not have to wait until adverse reactions to stop, ear ringing etc..Love, Peace and Blessings...Rev

[TrayCee]

K so, I did read and re-read your post.  I stand by my post.

I do wish you Good Luck with your situation.

[Michiganguy328]

OK, for the last time you need to read everything.  I have records that show I went to the Doctor 2 or 3 times a week and told him I was sick and didn't know why.  I have copies of his records showing this and his comments saying he did not have a cause, but it also shows the high doses of meds he had me on, and it showed that he recommended adding more which I refused.  I asked him for help and he did nothing (the records clearly show this).  The bottom line is he is a bad doctor and he needs to be stopped.  I could care less about the cash (I'm fine there), he just needs to be stopped.  

It took an emergency room visit and telling the doctor there what I felt was wrong before I finally got help.  My old doctor is being investigated by the hospital.  They won't give me the results, but I have been requested to come to the hospital for a meeting because their internal review team feels they should meet with me after reviewing the records.  My lawyer says they only do this if they feel there is something "there" that warrants talking to me.  

If you saw the 6 inch stack of records and the his notes you your jaw would hit the floor.  The fact that I refused the Oxy and additional Benzos shows that I did take control and seeked help as soon as I figured out what was going wrong (yes, I'm a pretty bright guy with a good eduction and a great career, but if you have never been in this situation it takes a bit of time to figure it out.  (When I am called to look at why a building mechanical system isn't working well and I discover an issue the engineers should have caught I don't give blame, I show them what to look for in the future because they have never seen that issue before).  

You need to step out of your shoes and be open minded, it will help you in the future.  

Good Luck...

[augy]

I seriously don't understand why your suing your doc for something you did wrong. You should have contacted him/her if you were having problems with your meds. Thnx for making my ins prems go up.

[TrayCee]

are you serious??
Sorry to disappointed you but....I have been a certified paralegal for 20 years.  You absolutely have NO CASE.  Medical malpractice suits are extremely hard to prosecute.  I find it VERY hard to believe you even found an attorney to take a case like this.  You have absolutely no standing.

Chalk it up to lesson learned and move on with your life.

[Mollyrae]

Michiganguy:

Nobody made you take that many pills. You can say no...and you knew what the risks were before you even took the first pill. It may be a part (small) of the Doctors fault here but the first person to blame is yourself.

You know the difference between yes and no.

Suing the Doctor quite honestly will get you nothing except empty pockets after paying the Lawyer.

[Michiganguy328]

Thanks for all your words of advice and for not attacking me.  I have high BP because it runs in my family.  I was taking a very low dose of one med before this started and it was increased by 4 times the strength and they had to add a second dose.  Since I stopped taking the Vics and Benzos my BP has lowered again and have cut back to half of what I was taking while on the pills.  My new doctor is pretty sure I will be able to return to my low dose again in a couple more months.  

My lawyer went through everything you have written above and has had many cases like this.  He will not take it to court unless a panel of 3rd party doctors feel I was wronged.  I'm waiting to hear the results of that, but it is going to take another month or so.  It is the last thing on my mind as I focus on getting better, being with my family, and enjoying my work again.  

I do have the highest respect for doctors and nurses and anyone in the medical field.  They provide a service I couldn't imagine doing, but there are bad apples out there and we need to take action before they hurt someone else; DEA or not.

Everyone can dismiss the thought that I dwell over this; that is just not the case.  I have moved on and leaving the dirty work up to my lawyer.  I have NOTHING to hide in my past; I rarely drink, I don't smoke and besides my BP med I only took an aspirin and an anti imflamatory once in a while.  I don't even have a parking ticket.   Boring eh?

Peace and love and all that stuff...

Gary

[abby10]

That was beautiful...and I agree totally. But my old benzo doc is a slime and she is being investigated. Her husband is a doctor and he's just had his license suspended in the State of Maryland for practicing medicine while under the influence of a narcotic and benzodiazepines (very high doses) and now "she" is next. She is a reckless and dangerous doctor.

abby

[sandee1818]

I had an experience with a doctor once who was old and would forget what he prescribed and write narcotics twice and then call the same prescription in. Pt's would take advantage of him as he was forgetful and would write them the same medications two and three times a day or week. I was contacted by the DEA and local law enforcement about his practices because I was a Pt. He had written me a prescription and then called the same one in. This was for narcotics. I called him and told him he had already given me a prescription so I did not need the one he called in. He told me he was sorry and cancelled the call in. Well the pharmacist told me he had been doing this quite alot and so I went and talked to his wife and told her that Pt's were taking advantage of him.
The DEA contacted me and ask me how he practiced as far as writing prescriptions. Well come to find out the DEA and local law enforcement was investigating him and his Pt's. I was the only one who went and talked to his wife and the only one who told him he had prescribed me two prescriptions of the same drug. Out of around 300 Pt's I was the only one who was honest enough to say something and to have respect enough to try and help the doctor who had helped me for years!
He eventually retired and his wife thanked me for coming to her. The DEA wanted me to wear a wire and have them record the conversation and then have the multiple prescriptions turned over to them. I refused.
This was an old country doctor that wanted to help his Pt's who had chronic pain. he went out of his way for each and every Pt and even paid for the medications for some who could not afford them.
My point here is the doctors who take care of us and that go out of their way for us deserve our respect. I see some Pt's who use their doctors and take full advantage of their wiliness to help them and it makes me livid! The few doctors left who see we are in pain and put everything they have worked for so many years on the line to help us and give us these medications are few and far between. I say they are the true heroes in pain management and deserve the respect  owed them.
My other point here is that while some may think the regulations are to loose in writing narcotics they have absolutely no idea what goes on behind the scenes. This doctor was being investigated for years before he even knew it. So do not assume there are not watching you or your doctor because the odds are they very well may be.
I am one that always shows and tells my doctor how much I appreciate him treating me with kindness and respect. I feel like if they can go to school for years upon years and then put all that on the line by trusting me by treating my pain then I certainly owe him the respect he deserves.
There are doctors that have lost their license and therefore their financial stability because of Pt's who took advantage of them and used them to get prescriptions to divert on the street and doctors do know this. They take a chance of losing everything by treating us with pain. We need to understand it is not as simple as just writing a prescription. There is much much more involved for the doctor, he puts alot on the line such as his license and financially stability and his family's well being.
So thank your doctor and show them the respect they do deserve.

[efd]

I'm going to be the devils advocate here. We all have to take responsibilty for what we allow and disallow in our bodies. Just because a doctor tells us its ok doesn't mean its ok. We all need to take an active role in investigating each and every avenue we cross. Doctors are human, there are bad ones and there are good ones. Some really do not need to be "practicing" and thats all they are doing "practicing medicine". You have to question everything they tell you and if they don't have the answers,you have to look elsewere for answers. The internet today can be a better doctor than a human one. I myself have had 6 surgeries in the past 18 months. I knew for at least three years before the surgeries that I needed them but before I consented to them I wanted to make sure I had no other choice. Now I am about to stop all the nargotics and God knows, I am looking forward to it. Not that they have controlled me to the point that I can't live wih out them but just the thought of takeing them bothered me. Now that we found the source (my gallbladder) I am virtually pain free so there is no need except to come off of them slowly so that I don't have some reaction and go coocoo on my family. It is normal for us to want to punish someone for hurting us but first we must make sure there is true cause for neglect or reason to punish. These drugs can also cloud our judgement so be very clear when you make the finale decision to sue or it just may be you who gets sued and looses everything. Doctors can sue too for slander and unneccessary litigation. I don't know if you ahve ever been in a court but it can be brutal and the lawyers can get very nasty and you yourself could get crusified. The lawyers will investigate every aspect of your life including your finances,personal habits,your past ,evrything and they can make you out to be the bad guy,especially malpractice lawyers. My suggestion is to send the doctor a certified letter,tell him how you feel and ask him to consider some form of compensation or you will have to take the matter further. If he refuses,them you have to worry because that means he  knows he has done nothing wrong (no neglect) he will have to contact his malpractice insurance carrier and let them know what you are asking and they will most likely take over from there.On a final note,be your on health advocate. If someone told you dog poo would make you feel better surely you would question it and really have to know why before you put that **** in your body. Right?Well its the same with drugs,they are all dog poo and its the Pharmacutacle companies that are killing us. Your pharmasist should have told you the combination was dangerous or you should have asked him. they really know a lot. I ask my Pharmacist everytime I get a prescription if it is ok to combine the drugs I never trust my doc to know everything about the drugs he prescribes. Good luck buddy and if you want to get rid of the high blood pressure get rid of fear and try adding more magnesium malate  and nato to your diet. I am not a doctor but that worked for my dad. He was living in fear of everyday life issues which made his blood vessels constrict which limited the blood flow the magnisum helped relax the vessels. He also realized that  worry did not make the problems go away and so now he has low blood pressure.A good web site to view is called "Be In Health".

[Michiganguy328]

All I have to say to that Tuck is Well Said and Thank You.  I wish you nothing but the best.  A voice of reason...ahhhh

[Tuckamore]

You do understand that the physician that prescribed, (according to you) the excessive amounts of medications is not the norm. There are a few bad apples in every profession. It is a fact of life. I am sorry that you found one of them.

I can tell you as I'm sure Sandee (and others) can that there are many, many more physicians that hesitate to prescribe any narcotic or benzodiazepines, let alone the amounts you were prescribed. This practice or lack of it causes many ppl to attempt to live with uncontrolled and untreated chronic pain. Some end their lives so they do not have to live one more day in agonizing pain that dominates their every waking hour. This is what we see and hear in our communities and on this forum. That is one of the reasons you are meeting so much resistance on the PM Forum. Forgive the analogy but you are barking up the wrong tree.

There are incompetent physicians out there. Those physicians should be held accountable for blatant misconduct. Any physician worth their weight in salt knows the ramifications of mixing the amounts and combinations of medications you state you were prescribed. These physicians may only receive that one specific hour of training you are concerned with but the collateral training, education and experience they receive most certainly reinforces that hour and assures that any caring and astute physician is able to competently prescribe medications. Again there are those few bad apples that should not in most instances even be allowed to practice.  

By all means punish those incompetent physicians. My concern is that your actions with the AMA will also punish the great physicians. It will reinforce the hesitate ones and add to the reasons that some physicians believe they should not treat or prescribe to those of us that are in chronic pain. Why risk losing their reputations along with the many years and horrendous amounts of money they invested in their career choice.  

Sandee is correct. There are agencies that monitor closely the amount of narcotics a person is prescribed as well as the physician that does the prescribing. This most certainly does include Vicodin. Why you fell through the cracks is any ones guess. There are always exceptions to the rule. In my opinion that is exactly what your case is, an exception, not the rule.

Again I am sorry that you apparently fell victum to an incompetent physician. There are many patients that are prescribed narcotics and benzodiazepines together that are managed properly. When this occurs these medications can make huge positive results. You must admit that we all have to take some responsibility for our own health care, that fact does not make your former physician less guilty. It does however make you responsible to some degree. In all probability you will not have your day in court. You will not be heard. That is the sad fact in so many litigations. This will be a quiet settlement with dollars attached to it.  

I wish you well in your recovery process.
Tuck

[Michiganguy328]

Thanks for writing Sandee, but I have to disagree.  From the research I've done doctors can hand out Vics pretty freely as well as emergency rooms and dentists.  Suboxone is not even stocked at 95% of hospitals and the doctors licenced to distrubute are very closely watched.  I did some research in Michigan and on average there is only 1 licenced doctor per county, but hunderds can hand out Vics.  

My Pharm did talk to me about the size of the scripts and that was my first red flag.  My doctor also tried to change my script to Oxy and after talking to the Pharm I decided to hand him the script but told him not to fill it and asked him to shred it while I was there.  

Again, I understand we are responsible for what we consume, but these are experts and just like we trust the doctor that cuts us open we need to have trust in our other doctors.  I am not out to GET my doctor; I just feel that I was wronged big time.  There is no amount of money in the world that will make up for the pain I have gone through, and I'm not rich, but I live pretty comfortable so it has nothing to do with the cash (in fact I plan on giving a good portion to the rehab center if I win).  The fact is I went to see him up to 3 times a week and I was given bad information and there is no doubt he gave me way too many drugs.  He needs to spend a day in the rehab center to see what we go through to understand the damage caused and how powerful these drugs are.  He must have skipted that day of class.

[sandee1818]

Can someone please just answer my one question about suboxone?  Why is that so regulated yet Vics and Benzos can be handed out like candy?????

Answer:
The DEA does regulate the narcotics written by each and every doctor. All narcotics are regulated just as suboxone is regulated. Every narcotis prescription has a control number also.
Suboxone is a different drug that is meant to help those who have become addicted get off of the medications they are addicted to. The doctor who prescribes this medication is well educated on suboxone.
Doctors who write narcotics are well educated about narcotics and their effects and it is their discretion as to how they write the prescriptions but that does not mean they are not regulated. The DEA gives each doctor that is able to write narcotics a DEA number and the prescriptions each doctor writes is followed through this number.
Doctors are watched closely even though you and I may not know about it they are. there are many doctors who are investigated and even they do not know they are being investigated. Alot of states have the pill law which is where each Pt that gets any type of narcotics they are put into the system and it can be seen by every doctor and pharmacy.
There are many many precautions and regulations set up that you and I know nothing about that watches over doctors narcotic scripts.
You have to understand that just because you feel you were over prescribed does NOT mean that those drugs are not regulated and watched closely by the DEA. To be quite honest your pharmacist most likely put red flags up on you and your doctor because of the amount you were prescribed. When this happens the doctor is watched even more closely and so are you.
I will see if I can find an official list of the regulations in place to regulate narcotics. I assure you there are many.

[Michiganguy328]

You guys really need to learn to read everything I have written.  You will see that my doctor did give me 360 pills in one month; however, I took just about all of them to the treatment center to be destroyed.  The 4 doctors at the treatment center and the nurse was completely floored by how many pills had been prescribed to me.  He changed the dose strength 3 times in 3 weeks which is why I had so many.  I never took more than 6 a day and had them all destroyed as soon as I checked in to the center.  When I got home I found a few more and couldn't get flush them down fast enough.  

As for the comment on how I learned the street name...  Again, try reading.  I was at a treatment center for 10 days and learned a ton. Figure it out...

A panel at the hospital reviewed my case and I have learned my old doctor is going before the board, so I think I do have a case.  And hear me completely when I tell you it is not my GOAL to get the doctor; however, it is my GOAL to stop this from happening to anyone else again from this nut job.  

Can someone please just answer my one question about saboxone?  Why is that so regulated yet Vics and Benzos can be handed out like candy?????

PS - I went to the doctor yesterday and she said I have a great attidute and I'm way ahead of schedule.  It feels great to be back to work full time and can't wait to take the kids out Trick or Treating.  Geez.. all this wonderful stuff while I'm still angry with my doctor... go figure.  It also gave me an excuse to go out and buy a new Mustang GT... muahhh  

[sandee1818]

I think the important thing to learn from all these post be your own advocate. When a doctor prescribes you medications you have to take the responsibility to talk to your pharmacist and do some research.
The doctor that prescribes you medications can make mistakes as no one is perfect. While the pharmacist is there to educate you on your medicines and answer your questions he/she is also there to catch any mistakes that may be made also.
This day and age there is really no excuse not to research your medications as we do have computers and the resources to see what we are putting in our bodies. The doctor can not be your advocate and pharmacist and your doctor because while he should be all those things the reality is they have too many Pt's and don't have sufficient time to do so.
We have to be more responsible these days and look out for our health ourselves too along with the doctor and pharmacist. The days of trusting everything your doctor tells you as the absolute right decision for us is over I am afraid. Alot of people including me have found doctors they completely trust but still do their own research and ask the pharmacist questions they may have about what is prescribed to them.
When you encounter a doctor that is too willing to just prescribe medications without the proper test or diagnosis you should know right then that is not the correct doctor for you.
Pain management has taken so many hits from the media and the DEA and the ones who divert narcotics that it has really hurt the doctors and the Pt's. We have very limited doctors in pain management now and too many Pt's that do need pain management and it will get worse. We have to be able to educate ourselves on our condition as well as our treatments whether it is medications or other treatments. The doctor can not be expected to do all the work.
Just like people who come here and say I have been having this pain for this long , has anyone here had anything like this? They usually have many who do and then they have some idea of what is going on with them and they go to their doctors and tell them what they have found out and that assist the doctor in ordering the proper test and sometimes helps get a diagnosis quicker.
Too many expect too much from their doctors. I would say that id right as we do hire them to take care of our health but I said we have to be responsible with putting that much power in ones hands without being an advocate in our own health care. Some are unable to advocate so they do have loved ones who help them do so.
This post has went on and on with those who oppose someone blaming their doctor for putting them in harms way without asking questions and there are some who are outraged that anyone would take that amount of medications with no questions asked.
I believe the point of this post in whole should be to learn that we do have to ask questions and do the research and be aware of what treatments were getting and if we disagree then get a second or even third opinion. After all this is not out car or home were hiring someone to take care of it is our bodies and our health and we do not get any do overs there. We have one body one life and it is important to realize that and take care in hiring a doctor to manage our health.
I will leave this post open for now because I think there is a lesson to be learned here but if does get out of hand I will have to close it.

[abby10]

Speaking about myself...you just don't get it at all. There's no point in trying to explain the last 11 years to someone like you.

Addictions start with one little pill taken a few times a month, a pill you had no idea was addictive. Then at some point through the years you find yourself doing a refill, then your hooked and don't know it's the benzos making you feel that way, You just know you NEED more. You don't know the benzos are making you need alcohol more either.  Who had a computer back then...not me. Then you run into the drug pusher doctor. Then NO ONE can tell you how to properly get off. But you do anywhy (through sheer will power), the wrong way and have seizures and permanent nerve damage and and it destroys your life.

So sorry I didn't look at the little picture on the side of the bottle!

abby

[Mollyrae]

Some of us take these medications for serious reasons adn for a lot of us, it's the only thing that keeps us able to funtion. The difference is that we only take enough to ease the pain.

[Mollyrae]

I'm sorry but this is one of those posts that bother me.......

....There are quantity limits on narcotics and at the amount you were ingesting IN MY OPINION...did not come from just one Doctor. A Pharmacist would even question the Doctor on the amount prescribed. Doesn't add up here.

....As the others have said, nobody made you take the pills and you knew what you were getting yourself into. You didn't just fall off the turnip truck and knew at that amount were facing W/D issues.

Suing the Doctor will get you no where in a hurry. You could have searched for other options or second opinion in regards to taking all of that medication. We are in control of our own bodies.

This is just my opinion....we all have one.