Pain Clinic Member, Narcotics Gone, Pain and Withdrawals

Question

I am a pain clinic member, I was prescribed 10/500 lortab 3X's a day. I dropped my pain killers in a pot soaking in soapy hot water. I had to throw half of them away, they were soaked in grease and soap. The rules of the pain clinic says they won't replace narcotics for any reason, except theft with a police report. Not only am I in excruciating pain, I am having withdrawal symptoms as well. I have three young children to care for, and my husband works full-time and extra. I can handle the pain or withdrawals but not both. Does anyone have any ideas how to work myself out of this mess? I can't get narcotics from any other physician I'll be thrown out of the program, and I refuse to buy them illegally. I'm not a druggie, I have never abused them. What can I do?

kelkel55 · Answer

Well I just got off the phone with my pain clinic. I spoke to both the secretary and the nurse, they informed the doctor and called me back. He said after reviewing my chart, charts from other doctors, my condition, the fact that I'm primary caregiver to three small children and the impression he got from me at my first appt. he's very sympathetic. Unfortunately, he's bound by the board not to refill based on anything other than theft. However combining all factors, they do provide an "out" for patients in similar situations at their discretion. I'm allowed to go to the ER if I'm experiencing excruciating, debilitating pain, and the ER must contact the Dr. and he can tell them what I can be prescribed, the amount, and duration. I have to turn in discharge papers to the clinic to be filed, and if any future problems arise I have to handle it the same way. However, based on all factors the amount of times you can do this is limited, and if too many occur I can be kicked out of the program. I'm going to try not to go this route if possible. I've ran into many Drs. that say one thing, then do another, and I get the short end of the stick. But it's nice to know just in case. They also said I was not obligated to report incidences with my prescriptions unless something illegal was involved. But not to suffer in silence, let them know what was going on so they could possibly help.

sandee1818 · Answer

I told my Dad the same thing. No responsability for his actions and he will never learn his lesson and in the meantime I will be out of my medications. I do need to call my doctor and let him know what happened and I hate to because it is sooo embarrassing to have to tell them I had my meds stolen while visiting my Dad! I am still debating on whether to call the law. I figure I have the rest of the day to do so if I am.
Thanks for everyones support!

JoshuaY46013 · Answer

Oh Sandee,

This is horrible, I'm so sorry for you! Honestly, I know you don't want to disappoint your father, but why must you suffer because of someone else's wrongdoings?  I don't think it's fair to you and how will you treat your pain and withdrawl? 

I know this isn't easy for you, but if you don't do something about this, and there is no repercussion for whoever what will stop them from doing to this to you or someone else again?

I'm so sorry for you!

opus88 · Answer

Yes you are in quite a situation Sandee...you are trying hard to please your dad and not bring extra pain to your step mom, however IMO you do need to consider yourself, how will you manage without your meds? and you do need to report this in order to get a refill right?
I think this is very unfair of your dad to ask this of you, again someone not sympathetic to your suffering.
Sandee do what you need to do.

Kelkel...you have come from a school of hard knocks...same as where my son was taught from (and still learning).
I hope your doctor will be understanding and help you through this.
When I was first prescribed narcotics I wasn't able to take the full dose for a few weeks, therefore I do have some extra's...and I sure hang on to those for emergency purposes(yes locked up)
good luck to both you ladies

kelkel55 · Answer

That's a tough situation. I'm in excruciating pain myself right now, I'd imagine you are too. On one hand I wouldn't want to get the boy in trouble, but on the other hand you need your meds to function. I know I can't function without mine, I spend most of the day lying on the couch in the fetal position ODing on tylenol and motrin. And maybe more good will come out of reporting him than just getting your meds back. The boy obviously needs help if he's using them recreational. What happens when he runs out of yours, whats next the street? And if he lives through abusing them, and all the dangers on the street. What about withdrawal? I went through mild physical withdrawal, I couldn't imagine going through hard core withdrawals, and craving the drug mentally. 
I know that's easier for me to say because I'm not in the situation, but I really wish someone had stepped in when I was younger. I'm only 28, but when I was 22 I about killed myself with alcohol. Wild college party days :) It didn't stop until I literally made myself crazy with alcohol. Ran away from the er when I had alcohol poisoning, 5 policemen chased me down the street, carried me back to the hospital, held me down and strapped restraints on me. I was screaming and fighting, totally insane. I spent the night in jail. Then the next time it happened I actually cut my arm open with a razor, went to the er, ran away again. In the middle of the night the state troopers knocked on my door, I ran out the back door in 20 degree weather wearing socks and light-weight pants and shirt. My husband caught me (policeman just had knee surgery...lol.) and they sent me a state run psych facility for a 72 hr. old. After that, I haven't drank since. It wasn't worth it, looking back, I was a freaking lunatic. I would have been upset had a family member put an end to it, but now looking back I'm mad that they didn't. I lost 2 years being a burden on society. I almost lost everything, I had a husband, child, job, school. Sometimes tough love is best.

sandee1818 · Answer

Your right that amount of tylenol and advil is not good at all. Give the doctor a call. As I had mentioned you need to inform them of what happened anyways. I hope all goes well:)
I am having a situation here myself. I went to visit my Dad and my step mom's son stole my meds and my step mom is in the ER with a nervous break down and my Dad has asked me not to call the law so I am in a very bad position here. I just am so very angry and can not go two weeks without my medications just because he wanted to get high. He is shooting them we found out as we found the spoons and needles. 
I just do not know what to do here. I hate to do what my Dad ask me not to and call the law on the sorry boy! 
I feel sorry for my step mom in the hospitial but I am without meds for two weeks now.

kelkel55 · Answer

I live in KY, and controlled substance prescriptions are good for six months, other meds are one year, and er scripts are only good for seven days. It's not a matter of it being expired, it would break my contract. I'm going to call the pain clinic today, and inform them of the situation, and see if they can do an alternative procedure until I can get my refill. At the very least see if I can take lyrica, which I already have and is a non-narcotic pain killer. My pcp used to prescribe it in between narc. scripts. It barely touches the pain, but it's better than nothing. I took three tylenol, and two motrin before even getting out of bed. If I keep this up I won't have to worry about the pain because my liver will be shot.

sandee1818 · Answer

her in Florida the prescription would be good for 6 months. Controlled substances expire after 6 months and you need a new refill. This is why the doctor can only write one prescription with five refills.
Bit it would break the contract made with the PM doctor.

troubleinohio · Answer

that old script wouldnt be good anymore anyways. I think you only have 2 weeks to 1 month to fill a schedule (2 is it?) Tracee? Anyhow I know that oxycodone RX's cant go unfilled that long or they become invalid.  HOpe you feel better soon

TrayCee · Answer

youre very smart!  You'll be fine!

Good Luck!

kelkel55 · Answer

Well I've been without meds for two days now. The worst of the wds are pretty much over, I've been through the wds before. My pcp that handled my pain before used to pick and choose when he thought I needed pain relief. He had been in trouble before for over prescribing so he's very shy about writing scripts. My withdrawals had nothing to do with a mental addiction. Anyone that has taken narcotics for an extended period of time for chronic pain without dramatically increasing the dose can tell you after the first month of taking them you no longer get any mental "feel good vibes" from the pills. And when I'm without pills I don't crave them, I just feel like I have a bad case of the flu. 

I am however in severe pain. From my rib cage down to my pelvic bone is excruciating, and my whole back hurts, although not quite as much as my abdomen and pelvis. I have an old (3 mos) prescription for percocet at the pharmacy. But I'd rather spend 11 more days of hell, than risk getting thrown out of the program. They tell you not to take anything without informing them and my pcp had written this after my surgery. I spent 3 years in severe pain fighting doctors for a diagnosis, and then fighting to get them to believe I was still in pain after surgery. I refuse to do anything to compromise my medical care now.

sandee1818 · Answer

Traycee,
It is important to understand that you are not addicted because of withdrawal symptoms from not taking your medications. Your body is just reacting to not having the medication you usually take on a regular basis. Being dependant on your medicines for pain control is far different from being addicted to them, Your doctor understands this. 

Kelkel55,
Tuck's suggestion for getting a lock box is wise, it protects you and others as well. Being without medication is really tough and I am sorry your going thru this. I wanted to check in on you and see how your doing. I have had this happen to me before and it is horrible dealing with the pain and the withdrawals on top of that. Although doctors have heard every possible excuse for lost or destroyed medications if your honest and explain what happened you should be fine. Even if you choose not to ask for a early refill you need to inform the doctor what happened. This way they know your out of meds and if they surprise you with an UA they are aware before hand of the situation. 
I hope your doing okay and if you need to just talk I am here for you:)

TrayCee · Answer

If I told my PM Dr I was having wds' he would  immediately discharge me for being addicted.

Even though hes been writing high dose opiates for 6 years.  He asks me every month if I'm having any problems with addiction or side effects.  
If I told him my pills were lost or destroyed for ANY REASON I'm positive I would be discharged

maybe its just my PM Dr whose like that.

Good Luck!!

Tuckamore · Answer

Many of us have a locked box that we keep our narcotics or similar medications. I know that's where I keep mine. I never take the bottle out of that box any more, especially since the toilet incident. I fill a "purse bottle" with a day of meds and when not carrying it with me I keep that in a locked closet.  

These are just things I have learned over time. If someone takes your medication by error or on purpose you are responsible if they are not locked. At least that is the case in my state. 

I am glad that you have some additional meds to help you through until you are able to obtain a refill.

kelkel55 · Answer

If I had been thinking clearly I could have salvaged more. But the water in the pot was near boiling, and they just disintegrated, I panicked scooped the mush out directing into the sink trying to salvage the ones farther into the bottle. I keep all my meds in the cabinet above my counter, one place that is no access to my kids. After this fiasco I need to keep them somewhere else.

I am hoarding one 10mg tablet for emergency. I don't know whether to cut it into four to provide four doses of very minimal relief from pain and w/d. Or to save it for one dose of complete relief of pain when I can't stand it anymore. 

I have tons of meds to ease w/d, I have phenergan for nausea, lomotil for diarrhea, klonopin for sleep. Although nothing eases the chills or weakness. 

My pcp was handling my pain for eleven months, this was my first month with a pmp. In my wonderful state prescription pain killers are the most widely abused drugs. They are the drugs of choice, so my pcp referred me to a pain clinic when he had maxed out the number of narcotics he could give me without getting himself into trouble. It doesn't help any that majority of my pain is from endometriosis and adenomyosis, which no one understands very well but ob/gyns. The rest of my pain is from 2 spine surgeries, rods, hooks, and 2 spinal fusions. I only have two disintegrating, bulging discs at the base of my spine responsible for all my lower body movement. My only choice other than narcs. are pelvic and spinal block, or hysterectomy and disc replacement.

Tuckamore · Answer

Hi Kelkel,

Your right they just won't normally refill except in a thief with a police report. I once knocked my open bottle into the (clean) toilet....Ick!  I was able to retrieve some of them but it was not pretty! I used what I had very, very sparingly and subsisted with some diazepam and NSAID's. I did not want to go into withdrawal but the pain was horrid. It was a long nine days.

I saw my PCP on a scheduled non-pain related issue and she did order a refill 2 days earlier than normal.  However I have been seeing her for years and this had never happened to me before (or since) so she did trust me. In my state CP patients are followed by their PCP and not PMP. 

I think your plan makes sense. If you show you are willing to do whatever to reduce your pain and don't demand narcotics they may be willing to at least provide you with something to ease the w/d. 

Good luck to you. Please let us know how you are doing.

Peace,
Tuck

kelkel55 · Answer

My next script is in 12 days. I was thinking of going into the pain clinic and explaining what happened to my doctor. Asking him if he will do a pelvic and spinal block for the pain. I've refused them in the past because of the risks. And asking him about the withdrawals. I've been on lortab for a year without any complications with my script. So I hope I've built up enough trust to make him take action.