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Taking Perocets for year and drug screen said I had no pain meds in my system
Very upset I have been seeing the same pm doctor for almost 2 years. This is the third drug test I have taken and the first time there has been a problem. He said all my others meds showed up but the test said I was negative for my perocet. I take 2 or 3 a day. How can the test say none found in my system. They are looking at me like I am liar. I have always taken my meds like I am suppose to. I have a terrilbe back condition and could not make it through the day with them. Avee labs in Florida ran the test. Has this happened to anyone? If so what did you do? I gave them another urine sample today and told them I took my meds last night at 9 p.m.. I can't afford to get kicked out of the program for some faulty test. What are my rights? Please help.
Hi Ranice,
I wouldn't worry about it. Given that your physician agreed to retest (I'll admit, I have never heard of that happening before), I think that is a very GOOD sign. I am hopeful that this next test will come out positive. As you mentioned earlier that you had two other urine tests that came out positive before so this third one may just be a bad apple.
You could see if they have any tests that can show your metabolism rate of medications as that would be great for your permanent medical record should this ever occur again.
For future urine tests, you could take a morning dose instead of waiting until the afternoon. Or, you could schedule your urine test in the afternoon after you take your afternoon dose.
Let us know how things turn out but I think you have a really understanding and compassionate physician that you have been with for over two years so I think your risk of being kicked out of his office is low.
femmy
I wouldn't worry about it. Given that your physician agreed to retest (I'll admit, I have never heard of that happening before), I think that is a very GOOD sign. I am hopeful that this next test will come out positive. As you mentioned earlier that you had two other urine tests that came out positive before so this third one may just be a bad apple.
You could see if they have any tests that can show your metabolism rate of medications as that would be great for your permanent medical record should this ever occur again.
For future urine tests, you could take a morning dose instead of waiting until the afternoon. Or, you could schedule your urine test in the afternoon after you take your afternoon dose.
Let us know how things turn out but I think you have a really understanding and compassionate physician that you have been with for over two years so I think your risk of being kicked out of his office is low.
femmy
Thanks for the information. I told him I don't usually take my meds during the morning until i have had breakfast. Sometimes I wait until lunch to take one. My pain level is usually highest early or late afternoon. I always take one before bed to sleep through the pain at night. So I am thinking since I took the urine test the morning without any meds in my system the meds are not showing up. Even when I have surgery they have to give me tons of numbing medication same at the dentist, my mouth wakes up in about 30 minutes. They have to numb two or three times every root canal. I just go through medication so quickly. I am really worried the next test will show no meds to since I did not take on that morning. So stupid they don't use a test to show meds longer than 12 hours. I guess a blood test is my option.
OK retract my sentence to take two pills. Just take one. I don't think the test is that accurate given that it can't even detect the 1 percocet the patient took at 9 pm the night before.
Taking one percocet at 7 am, one at noon, and one at 9pm OR taking one percocet at noon, one at 4pm and one at 9pm...both options are still compliance to me but the first option may help the patient pass their drug test if the test is at 11 am.
You can write all you want in a journal and still sell some of your pills. Like I said earlier, you were very lucky to find another physician that took your word as the final truth.
femmy
Taking one percocet at 7 am, one at noon, and one at 9pm OR taking one percocet at noon, one at 4pm and one at 9pm...both options are still compliance to me but the first option may help the patient pass their drug test if the test is at 11 am.
You can write all you want in a journal and still sell some of your pills. Like I said earlier, you were very lucky to find another physician that took your word as the final truth.
femmy
Forgot to mention, that many patients that failed their urine test were dismissed by letter and none of the phone calls requesting additional information were returned and they were instantly out in the cold.
It sure is nice that the patient's physician under this circumstance agreed to retest but how many retests would the physician do should the patient fail the next urine screen? I think the answer is not too many and if a dismissal occurs rarely does the patient get a chance to make an appointment to discuss why or request a blood test. It is over. Do I think this is fair? No, absolutely not. But it happens so often to patients. And that is why I believe patients need to arm themselves against faulty urine screens.
The physician would most likely not agree to the patient sitting there and taking a percocet right in front of them and then waiting 1 hour to be urine screened. Why? Because the physician is thinking already that some of the percocet had been sold on the black market and that of course it is going to show up when the patient takes some in the office and then gets a urine test but where did the other percocet go??? I truly believe the patient in this case took the other percocet as prescribed for pain. This is simply an example of what many physicians think when the drug does not show up in the patient's urine. The DEA does not play nicely with physicians that aid the diversion of controlled substances. Hence, the quick dismissal that pain management offices quickly fire off to the patients even if many of them never sold a pill.
Once a patient is dismissed, doctors rarely retract the decision and dismissals are now part of that patient's permanent record. That is not the type of fire I would want to play in. I would rather dodge it by any means necessary. But that is me. I need my medications for pain. Compliance is always the golden rule, take as prescribed, no more no less. And this can be done by simply shifting a percocet to the morning before the test and not taking one of the doses later in that day. Compliance achieved, no more, no less. If that person has breakthrough pain the morning of the test, that would fabulous as they would be in perfect compliance and pass the urine test.
femmy
It sure is nice that the patient's physician under this circumstance agreed to retest but how many retests would the physician do should the patient fail the next urine screen? I think the answer is not too many and if a dismissal occurs rarely does the patient get a chance to make an appointment to discuss why or request a blood test. It is over. Do I think this is fair? No, absolutely not. But it happens so often to patients. And that is why I believe patients need to arm themselves against faulty urine screens.
The physician would most likely not agree to the patient sitting there and taking a percocet right in front of them and then waiting 1 hour to be urine screened. Why? Because the physician is thinking already that some of the percocet had been sold on the black market and that of course it is going to show up when the patient takes some in the office and then gets a urine test but where did the other percocet go??? I truly believe the patient in this case took the other percocet as prescribed for pain. This is simply an example of what many physicians think when the drug does not show up in the patient's urine. The DEA does not play nicely with physicians that aid the diversion of controlled substances. Hence, the quick dismissal that pain management offices quickly fire off to the patients even if many of them never sold a pill.
Once a patient is dismissed, doctors rarely retract the decision and dismissals are now part of that patient's permanent record. That is not the type of fire I would want to play in. I would rather dodge it by any means necessary. But that is me. I need my medications for pain. Compliance is always the golden rule, take as prescribed, no more no less. And this can be done by simply shifting a percocet to the morning before the test and not taking one of the doses later in that day. Compliance achieved, no more, no less. If that person has breakthrough pain the morning of the test, that would fabulous as they would be in perfect compliance and pass the urine test.
femmy
My point is if the prescription does not call for this...then I don't recommend it...that's all...If they are found to have 'too much' in their system it can backfire in the wrong way.
I'm saying that I happen to live by being honest and as I wrote...even if it takes having to change DRs....Ranice will have the test results....copies of her prescriptions...and what the bottle actually reads as instructions...as well as when she took the medication last before the test. All of these will show the new Dr. that she followed everything perfectly.
I had a 'red flag' on my record as well but found a Dr. who listened to the truth and facts...It took those two months and going to a few other Drs. in between who wouldn't listen.
We can agree to disagree....but unless their prescription says to take those 2 pills together before the test...I would never recommend it.
I'm saying that I happen to live by being honest and as I wrote...even if it takes having to change DRs....Ranice will have the test results....copies of her prescriptions...and what the bottle actually reads as instructions...as well as when she took the medication last before the test. All of these will show the new Dr. that she followed everything perfectly.
I had a 'red flag' on my record as well but found a Dr. who listened to the truth and facts...It took those two months and going to a few other Drs. in between who wouldn't listen.
We can agree to disagree....but unless their prescription says to take those 2 pills together before the test...I would never recommend it.
To Weathergirl:
I fortunately have never had to take any urine test or have had to do a pill count over my entire history in pain management. But, I have heard the horror stories of patients being red flagged, in which a red flag can become a part of your permanent medical record and many have not been able to find another pain management doctor that will accept them.
I think that it is great that you found a doctor that trusted your story and took your word as bond. But, unfortunately that happens less often than most as doctors are constantly under the scrunity of the DEA. If he/she took a percocet before the test and skipped a dose later in the day, if that keeps the person within pain management and able to receive medications that are so desperately needed for pain, I don't see any problems with that approach. Since this person has only gotten urine tested 3 times over the past 2 years, this approach would occur on very rare occasions.
To Ranice:
But regardless of the discourse between me and weathergirl, it is important that you do what you think is best regardless of our opinions. You know your physician and your physician's staff best.
femmy
I fortunately have never had to take any urine test or have had to do a pill count over my entire history in pain management. But, I have heard the horror stories of patients being red flagged, in which a red flag can become a part of your permanent medical record and many have not been able to find another pain management doctor that will accept them.
I think that it is great that you found a doctor that trusted your story and took your word as bond. But, unfortunately that happens less often than most as doctors are constantly under the scrunity of the DEA. If he/she took a percocet before the test and skipped a dose later in the day, if that keeps the person within pain management and able to receive medications that are so desperately needed for pain, I don't see any problems with that approach. Since this person has only gotten urine tested 3 times over the past 2 years, this approach would occur on very rare occasions.
To Ranice:
But regardless of the discourse between me and weathergirl, it is important that you do what you think is best regardless of our opinions. You know your physician and your physician's staff best.
femmy
When did you take your last Percocet before the test before last?
As mentioned....this medicine is a short acting one and usually peaks at 45 minutes and then after 4-6 hours it has worked it's way through.
It also depends on how sensitive the test is. The lab that my Dr. uses in California uses Mass Spectrometry and Gas Chromatography....This can detect even the slightest levels of medicine.
Your Dr. should know and understand the test as well as the half life of the medicines that you take.
Is your prescription written to 'only take as needed'? As in the 2 or 3 a day?
All you can do is be honest when you have taken your last pill and if you are taking them exactly as directed...then if they still accuse you of something. Ask for a blood test...
Or ask to have a test done after an hour of watching you take a Percocet. Ask them what the levels are supposed to be if you have only taken one the night before...
If for some reason they still dismiss you, you can just find another Dr. Having done all the correct things....you will be able to explain all of this to the next Dr.
I don't happen to recommend what Femmy29 is saying in the above post. Taking the medicine not as prescribed just to pass a test is a dangerous game to play.
I just happen to believe that honesty will prevail...even if it it's harder on you in the moment.
I went through this with a horrible Dr. years ago. I was away in another state visiting my Dad. I had called the Dr.s office to ask if my husband...whom they had met many times before, could come in and pick up my prescription as I wasn't returning home until the following day (Saturday).
The nurse then proceeds to tell me that I already picked up the prescription myself yesterday....I said this is impossible as I am out of town and have been for the last week. She insisted it was me!...
I said that I have proof with gas receipts...credit card receipts...family witnesses that all show I absolutely could not have picked it up as it shows I am in another state...8 hours away!...
The issue back then is that they never required the patient to sign for the prescriptions....as well as are state back then did not track prescriptions like they do now...(Thankfully!)...
They refused to believe me....I happen to think that this particular nurse was stealing prescriptions for herself as we had been at odds since I started going there.
Needless to say that they accused me of lying...and dismissed me from the practice...It was right over the holidays and I had to go two months without any medicine.
Thankfully I found my now PM Dr. and new Neurosurgeon who performed my last fusion. They are SO wonderful....SO caring....and I've been with them for over 5 years now.
My point is stay strong....do everything by the book. Even start keeping a log/journal of exactly when you are taking the medication every day...noting the time.
That's all you can do and if you have to start over with a new Dr. then so be it but you will have the proof to show that you did things exactly as prescribed.
Good luck.
As mentioned....this medicine is a short acting one and usually peaks at 45 minutes and then after 4-6 hours it has worked it's way through.
It also depends on how sensitive the test is. The lab that my Dr. uses in California uses Mass Spectrometry and Gas Chromatography....This can detect even the slightest levels of medicine.
Your Dr. should know and understand the test as well as the half life of the medicines that you take.
Is your prescription written to 'only take as needed'? As in the 2 or 3 a day?
All you can do is be honest when you have taken your last pill and if you are taking them exactly as directed...then if they still accuse you of something. Ask for a blood test...
Or ask to have a test done after an hour of watching you take a Percocet. Ask them what the levels are supposed to be if you have only taken one the night before...
If for some reason they still dismiss you, you can just find another Dr. Having done all the correct things....you will be able to explain all of this to the next Dr.
I don't happen to recommend what Femmy29 is saying in the above post. Taking the medicine not as prescribed just to pass a test is a dangerous game to play.
I just happen to believe that honesty will prevail...even if it it's harder on you in the moment.
I went through this with a horrible Dr. years ago. I was away in another state visiting my Dad. I had called the Dr.s office to ask if my husband...whom they had met many times before, could come in and pick up my prescription as I wasn't returning home until the following day (Saturday).
The nurse then proceeds to tell me that I already picked up the prescription myself yesterday....I said this is impossible as I am out of town and have been for the last week. She insisted it was me!...
I said that I have proof with gas receipts...credit card receipts...family witnesses that all show I absolutely could not have picked it up as it shows I am in another state...8 hours away!...
The issue back then is that they never required the patient to sign for the prescriptions....as well as are state back then did not track prescriptions like they do now...(Thankfully!)...
They refused to believe me....I happen to think that this particular nurse was stealing prescriptions for herself as we had been at odds since I started going there.
Needless to say that they accused me of lying...and dismissed me from the practice...It was right over the holidays and I had to go two months without any medicine.
Thankfully I found my now PM Dr. and new Neurosurgeon who performed my last fusion. They are SO wonderful....SO caring....and I've been with them for over 5 years now.
My point is stay strong....do everything by the book. Even start keeping a log/journal of exactly when you are taking the medication every day...noting the time.
That's all you can do and if you have to start over with a new Dr. then so be it but you will have the proof to show that you did things exactly as prescribed.
Good luck.
Hi Ranice,
Mary and Gemini provided some good info to be considered.
Because there isn't anyone to look out for the patient in these circumstances sometimes you have to play "beat the system". I know you are being completely honest with us and we know how important medications are for managing your pain so that you can live life each day to the best extent possible but doctors and nurses seem to almost always look to science to tell the absolute truth when everyone metabolizes medications differently.
The only other thing I would recommend is to take a percocet (or two), the morning before your urine test just to make sure it shows up. I know it ***** to take medication when you don't have pain but it can mean not having future medications to manage your pain should the percocet not show up. Also limit your water intake until an hour or two before the test so that the concentration of percocet in your urine remains strong as I believe these test are most of the time not sensitive enough as increased sensitivity costs more money that the insurance may not pick up the tab for as it is a doctor desired test above what is available at a lower cost that is supposed to "technically" achieve the same results.
So, I agree that the pecocet could be out of your system by the time of the test as over 12 hours have passed since your last dose.
And as Mary said, if it doesn't show up this time ask for a blood test as those are most accurate.
I hope that over time with more and more patients going through pain management, that doctors will come up with a better way to determine if the patient is compliant or not. As hopefully over time, all of the false negatives have to eventually add up to something.
Keep us updated. Hoping for the very best at your next appointment.
femmy
Mary and Gemini provided some good info to be considered.
Because there isn't anyone to look out for the patient in these circumstances sometimes you have to play "beat the system". I know you are being completely honest with us and we know how important medications are for managing your pain so that you can live life each day to the best extent possible but doctors and nurses seem to almost always look to science to tell the absolute truth when everyone metabolizes medications differently.
The only other thing I would recommend is to take a percocet (or two), the morning before your urine test just to make sure it shows up. I know it ***** to take medication when you don't have pain but it can mean not having future medications to manage your pain should the percocet not show up. Also limit your water intake until an hour or two before the test so that the concentration of percocet in your urine remains strong as I believe these test are most of the time not sensitive enough as increased sensitivity costs more money that the insurance may not pick up the tab for as it is a doctor desired test above what is available at a lower cost that is supposed to "technically" achieve the same results.
So, I agree that the pecocet could be out of your system by the time of the test as over 12 hours have passed since your last dose.
And as Mary said, if it doesn't show up this time ask for a blood test as those are most accurate.
I hope that over time with more and more patients going through pain management, that doctors will come up with a better way to determine if the patient is compliant or not. As hopefully over time, all of the false negatives have to eventually add up to something.
Keep us updated. Hoping for the very best at your next appointment.
femmy
I know you said you had taken your last pill about 9pm the night before the test - what time was your urine test? My thinking is that if it was like 12 hours or more from the time you had taken your last dose, and since you are taking a small dose (only 2-3 pills per day), that amount of time may be long enough that it isn't showing up in your system.
Unfortunately, this does happen quite often to pain patients and like mentioned above, many of them are immediately dismissed from their doctor's care without any explanation or chance to ask questions or explain. I'm glad your doctor was willing to take an additional test.
I also don't know about any "rights" you may have in regard to this, other than some states I believe have an abandonment law meaning that if your doctor does dismiss you, he needs to provide you with (I think) 30 days worth of medication to allow you time to find a new doctor without (hopefully) having to go through withdrawal from the meds. Even taking meds exactly as prescribed can cause uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms when they are abruptly stopped.
If, by any chance, this last test also comes back as a false negative, you may be able to ask your doctor to:
a) either let you come in the office, take a dose of meds right in front of them and then test you about an hour or two later, OR
b) request a blood test rather than a urine test. The urine tests are the ones that seem to cause the biggest problems with either false negatives or false positives. The blood tests are much more accurate.
Meanwhile, just as a precaution, you may want to start searching for a new pm doctor in case your current one does end up dismising you as a patient.
Best of luck!
Unfortunately, this does happen quite often to pain patients and like mentioned above, many of them are immediately dismissed from their doctor's care without any explanation or chance to ask questions or explain. I'm glad your doctor was willing to take an additional test.
I also don't know about any "rights" you may have in regard to this, other than some states I believe have an abandonment law meaning that if your doctor does dismiss you, he needs to provide you with (I think) 30 days worth of medication to allow you time to find a new doctor without (hopefully) having to go through withdrawal from the meds. Even taking meds exactly as prescribed can cause uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms when they are abruptly stopped.
If, by any chance, this last test also comes back as a false negative, you may be able to ask your doctor to:
a) either let you come in the office, take a dose of meds right in front of them and then test you about an hour or two later, OR
b) request a blood test rather than a urine test. The urine tests are the ones that seem to cause the biggest problems with either false negatives or false positives. The blood tests are much more accurate.
Meanwhile, just as a precaution, you may want to start searching for a new pm doctor in case your current one does end up dismising you as a patient.
Best of luck!
I"m not sure we actually have any "rights" when it comes to this stuff. It happens to a lot of people and if you search through the forum, you'll see how often it happens. AT least they're rerunning your blood test. A lot of doctors just dismiss you from the practice no questions asked (or allowed.)
Not sure why it happens. THere could be many reasons. Hopefully, someone who knows the chemistry behind the meds and the tests will be able to help you more.
Not sure why it happens. THere could be many reasons. Hopefully, someone who knows the chemistry behind the meds and the tests will be able to help you more.
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