shorter vagina??

[nannynormi]

I had my surgery by a Urogynecologist at the Cleveland Clinic who had performed a surgery on a friend very successfully.  She didnt have the problems im having. There's a spot at the inside entrance to the vagina that KILLS me when we attempt sex.  At a post op visit they put an injection right on it. (Words don't describe what that felt like LOL) It was supposed to make a big difference.  Tried sex again-- better but still there (scale 6 instead of a 10) and now we could actually complete sex, except that now my husband who is size "regular" can't go all the way in... says there's a "wall" he hits.  Before the vaginal/rectal/bladder surgery, i had a hysterectomy with my cervix being removed.  So whats so different about my vagina getting straightened out that makes him feel the wall now and not before?  Dying to find out if ANYONE but me has had these 2 difficulties?

[nannynormi]

GOOD!

[sherrieP]

I was just thinking about you and wondering how you were doing nannynormi when I responded to the last post! So glad to hear things are balanced and you're doing great! Put a big ol smile on my face tonight!

Sher

[nannynormi]

sherrie is right- my "URODYNAMICS" testing was quite involved....but it's worth it! This seems to pinpoint and tell the surgeon EXACTLY where the problems are. BTW, they warned me about bladder pain afterwards. They were sooooo right! It only lasts about 2 hours.  Also, my sister-in-law had a hysterectomy while in the armed forces, and they placed the "sling" at the same time so she WOULDNT have to get another surgery.  In my opinion, this is the perfect time to get a second opinion. When it's a life changing surgery like POP and hysterectomyare  it pays to get input from another Uro/Gyn.           PS I'm completely normal again and doing great!

[sherrieP]

The urogyn should do urodynamics test prior to surgery to see whether or not you need the cystocele repair-you should not have to go through a separate procedure, extra expense, extra pain, extra inconvenience. Often incontinence turns into urine retention when you are in grade 3-the urethra gets crimped and the pee can't get out. If this urogyn has not done this test, that is a flag. I am curious who the urogyn is, there are some  urogyns in this neck of the woods with great reputations; this seems a bit off course for standard procedure. Are you having a rectocele as well? You mention both procedures, wondering what other procedure besides uterus is being done if he wants to  hold off on bladder.

Sher

[hhiellen]

Okay...I've finally scheduled my POP surgery in January, with a hysterectomy, both will be done abdominally : I'm terrified, since everything that needs to be eliminated comes from my bladder and rectum, and if anything goes wrong, I don't want to have to cath myself or have problems with bowel movements I have a urerovaginal prolapse (3), stress incontinence, and an overactive bladder.  Frankly, its just the pressure and bulge from the prolapse that is bothering me.  I was surprised that I have an overactive bladder, and I have minimal problems with the stress incontinence.  Questions for you, I will have a urogynocologist in Savannah, Ga doing the procedure robotically.  He has recommended that I wait to see how my bladder functions after the surgery, and then if I have problems, he would go back in and put a sling on the bladder.  Is this normal procedure....Interested in comments and learning more about what others have experienced....Never thought about a shorter vagina!  

[sherrieP]

I laughed out loud at that one! You  put a big smile on my face for the day....

[nannynormi]

OOps! Yes absolutely they gave me Estrace....2x weekly.  Tomorrows "THE" day......There's bad screaming and there's good screaming.  I'm hoping for the latter.  Will let you know how it goes.

[sherrieP]

I'm so hopeful for you that this does the trick! Has anyone given you vaginal hormones to help the tissues heal up better or tested your hormone levels? Sometimes a little vaginal estriol can help the tissues be more pliable but obviously you had much more going on than what that alone would have helped. I'm so glad you have continued to pursue balance normi, and thanks so much for sharing all of your info with us! I'm with you, if the info we share helps just one other person, it's all good!

As usual, please keep me in the loop with how things turn out.
Sher

[nannynormi]

My surgeon did a tiny surgery on my visit yesterday. He said that the pain might be coming from a taut piece of flesh, so he nipped it and cauterized, and hopefully that should take care of the problem.  After 48 hrs we're supposed to have sex and do so every other day to stretch that area and not allow it to grow back together again.  He reminded me that if in a rare case it didnt work, I should come back.  I hope and PRAY that it solved the problem.  I hope that my experience will help some other poor soul having mysterious complications after POP surgery!

[sherrieP]

Please keep me in the loop with how things shift for you hon!
Sher

[nannynormi]

Thank you so much for your account!  I too think it's a nerve problem, and you were spot on with where it is and what it feels like.  As for my vagina, we're trying the cream and stretching device first.  My vagina is 4" as it was before (I can tell because I measured it myself) it's just that "top" part that needs to be more pliable (like it was before) Thank you for reminding me about that surgery. If all else fails, they did offer that option.  We're taking the  easy "therapy" first.. Monday I see the surgeon that did my proceedures.  Currently i had been seeing his assistant.  Til then, thanks again! You too Sherrie.

[sherrieP]

Ann Arbor?

[sherrieP]

Thanks so much for sharing your info Patsy, I agree that Normi can pinpoint her site of pain, she's been very specific with it and it is extremely intense for her. Hopefully if her scenario has not resolved, she can utilize the info you've submitted to find the answers she needs to get back to balance. I'm going to do some digging on Dr. Delancy's backdrop to add his info to my files for reference for other women. Again appreciate the share!
Sher

[Patsy3033]

Yes Dr. Miklos is an excellent doctor who has the ability to do most procedures laprascoply and procedures that clean up what other doctors botch up.  Since I can't see the inside of my vagina I have to take Dr. Delancy's measurements since I went to see him for help.  My vagina was left only 2 inches in length while a normal vagina is 3 to 4 " in length.  In addition it cannot elongate as a normal vagina would during intercourse thus the pounding on the cervex or "wall" as described by nannynormi.
I'm certain that Nannynormi can point to the exact spot where she is experiencing the tissue pain and if I'm correct her pain starts almost at
insertion and is localized to one area.  It's caused from the way the tissue was stitched. U of M does a surgery to lengthen the vagina.
Patsy3033

[sherrieP]

Yes, the vagina often does get shortened with POP procedures; a shortened vagina typically does not cause problems but as happens with all surgical procedures, infrequently there are those who have complications. The fact that Dr. Miklos did your procedure (he has quite a top shelf rep-I don't know him just his rep) and there still was a complication proves just how intricate POP procedures are. Every one of us are as unique on the inside as we are on the outside, and even the experts can't give a guarantee. Things have advanced quite a bit since 2002 but this is such a young field, procedures and treatments are changing every day.

I can't help but wonder if the pain is related to nerve damage from the procedure, since it is so sharp and intense for normi, it sure seems like it may be. Nerves take longer to heal than any other tissue type. Sometimes myofascial release therapy can help, it releases adhesions and scar tissue.

Every woman who has POP treatment has to take things one step at a time to find the answers that are the best fit for her. I'm glad you found Dr. DeLancy and are able to shift your pelvic health balance forward.

Sher

[Patsy3033]

Hi,
I had the same surgery that you had back in 2002 only I went to a doctor in
Georgia to have it done because the procedure could be done laprascoply.
I have the same results that you are experiencing. During the surgery your vagina was shortened.  This is what your doctors don't want to tell you.  No amount of injections will lengthen your vagina and get rid of the "wall" that your husband is hitting.  The only thing that will cure this problem is
having your vagina lengthened by an additional surgery to lengthen the vagina again. The tissue pain that you feel will always be there unless additional surgery is done to open that area and resuture it.  The depth of my vagina was left the size of my thumb chances are yours is the same.
I got honest answers to my pain and "wall" issue from getting a second opinion from Dr. DeLancy at U of M Medical Center.  The doctor that did my original surgery was Dr. John Miklos who is suppose to have an excellent surgical reputation but it sure didn't work out well for me.
Patsy3033  
  

[sherrieP]

Please keep digging until you get the info you need-sometimes there is a stitch that is "stuck" that irritates tissues but I would think if that was the case they would have found it and removed it. Good idea to see your gyn, she is not involved in the procedure and may be able to give an opinion that may point you in a direction. Hang in there, I know this is frustrating for you but there has to be an answer. Typically injections are steriods or a numbing agent for pain or swelling. The fact that you still have pain after multiple injections really makes me wonder what is going on there.

I'm heading out of town for a few days so if you find something out and I don't respond, I am just offline.

Sher

[nannynormi]

So when I came home from the CC, 3 days later, I was anxious to try things out (The wall situation I dont expect so fast)  and to my horror the 3 injections didnt help me. It was just as excruciating a pain as ever.  I can't believe I didnt think of this before, but I took a mirror to find out what this infernal spot looks like.  Of course it was blue/black from the shots, but it looks waaaaay different in appearance than the twin side on the right.  I'm going to have to get a second opinion. I only hope that my regular Gyn will see me for that!    I'm going to loose my mind!  going on 5 months now!

[sherrieP]

I'm so glad they are working with you to resolve this situation! Scar tissue & adhesions are often an issue when first healing up, takes a while for them to soften up. Utilizing an apparatus to gently increase pliability of vaginal walls is a great way to get increased flexibility of those tissues; the hormone cream helps tissue integrity as well. It sounds like you are on your way back to balance hon!
Sher

[nannynormi]

I had my appointment today at CC and i got 4 injections this time......what they did for the "hot spot" was inject it w/something that breaks up scar tissue.  They gave me 3 to be more aggressive. (I cant just drive 4 hours every week for successive injections)  and another injection and prescription for the top of the vagina, where it seems as if its "shorter" (Estrace) to soften the tissue.  Although the length is still the same, before I had a softer tissue there that had some "give" and now it seems the tissue there is "harder" and that's why my husband says it feels like he's hitting a "wall".  These folks at CC are the best! They're all so caring and willing to do whatever it takes. My expectations for wellness are very high now. Oh yeah, i have to use an apparatus to insert and push into the vaginal vault 10 min/daily to make it more pliable.  Thats a new one for me!

[sherrieP]

I had 3 types of POP, cystocele, rectocele, enterocele (intestines), grade 3. I was one of the lucky ones, I did not have pain with POP, I had chronic constipation and tissues bulging from vagina (that's what got my attention); also tampons would push right out prior to my hysterectomy at 40 (I found out what was going on and had POP surgery in mid-50s). So many women have pain, it is a common denomonator, especially women who work on their feet all day.

Glad at least the incontinence aspect is taken care of! Please keep me in the loop hon!

[nannynormi]

Thanks for the reply!  I had surgery April 25. So it's been 4 months. The injection was supposed to "break up" scar tissue.
1)How many did you have to have done?
2)Did they hurt like mine?
I had vaginal incision and I do have a report--I'll have to look at it more closely to see if mesh was used. I'll let you know....Friday I have a morning apointment.  Oh yeah, I have to drive 4 hrs to get there!  Wish I lived closer--I'd be there EVERY DAY til it was all fixed! LOL
By the way, severe stress incontinence x 15yrs was the reason I went to begin with and halleleuah it worked!

[sherrieP]

YOUCH, can't imagine how fun that injection was......

How long ago did you have surgery? Was mesh used or not? Vaginal or abdominal incisions?

The pain may be related to nerve damage from surgery-nerves take longer to heal than anything else and you can have pain or lack of sensation for a year or more. Typically they bounce back but not quickly.

Ask the dr what the injection was. Nerve block?? Temporary??

Get a copy of the surgical report from the hospital (they have to give it to you) to review. Cleveland Clinic is quite respected on the POP front but I would ask the dr if he did the surgery or if a dr in training did it. Surgery at teaching hospitals always make me nervous. Probably nothing but doesn't hurt to ask.

You may have some swelling or hard scar tissue (the scar tissue can be quite hard but I wouldn't think it would prevent your husband from getting in all the way). Something that may be of value to you is a treatment called myofascial release therapy which is extremely beneficial for releasing adhesions and breaking up scar tissue. If you had surgery over 6 months ago and feel this is something that may be of benefit and need help finding a therapist let me know and I can point you. I was AMAZED at how well the treatment released adhesions in me!

Sher