People Allergic to Me (PATM) Community
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Avatar universal

My scientific-philosophical view on PATM

Here I am again trying to give my thoughts about what I THINK is the balanced view on PATM and sanity...

Again, you might think it is arrogant and feel bad about it, but science is not about what we wish was real, but to prove what is real.

Here's the introduction to my thoughts:
- We have no scientific proof that PATM exists
- Nobody ever made scientific experiments to prove that PATM exists
- Even if you believe PATM is real with all your heart, it does not mean that it is real
- A lot of psychiatric disorder make people delusional and make them believe that some things are absolute real and no one can convince them otherwise
- We are on a forum of people who think PATM is real (so either we are a bunch of anxious-paranoid-hypochondriac people who try to find a meaning in irrelevant events in everyday life OR we have an untested-unproved medical problem and we are trying to help each other because medical science has no interest in such a non-serious condition)

Here's my thoughts to try to have a balanced perspective on PATM:
- (First, I will take for granted that PATM is caused by an irritant gas, even if it is not proven and might not be the case just for the sake of my thoughts here...)
- Humans are organic creatures
- Humans produce gas, like any other animals
- Humans produce methane, H2S and many other irritant gas as a by-product, some of the irritant gas are in fact a required internal components to make the body work, as any other animals
- "Normality" (to be "normal") in a way is what is "mainstream", what is "most common"
- Most humans produce irritant gas in a normal way (obviously... because "normal" just mean what is "common")
- Some humans obviously would product more irritant gas (every human cannot be in the "normal" range)
- People with PATM might be the "unlucky" ones with a higher than normal production of irritant gas
- Being too "not normal" make it difficult to "fit in" in a normal environment
- Just as natural selection, people with PATM might not "fit in" well in office job where it is a closed space of more or less people in the normal range of irritant gas production (yes, again, every human produce irritant gas)
- Unless there is a "cure", a "fix" or some solution to make people with PATM "fit in" in the office environment, it might be more difficult for them for "fit in"
- When people with PATM do a lot of effort trying to "fit in" an environment (like a closed office with people) that is not natural for them, it causes side-effects for them: feeling depressed, feeling guilty of causing cough, starting to feel more and more paranoid about unrelated "normal" cough people have that have nothing to do with PATM... all of which produces a lot of emotional toll (not good for the sanity... people with PATM will end up becoming more and more paranoid... getting more and more self-referential thinking... getting into a spiral of insanity... they end you automatically associate every coughs with themselves as being the cause, like some internalized Pavlov experiment... conditioning)
- My Darwinist view on PATM is this: if there is no cure/fix for PATM, then people with PATM just don't "fit in" in environments where the normality is with people without PATM.
- With PATM, it is easier to "fit in" in the outdoors, in a well ventilated place where the air is renewed (and not recycled), being a little less close to people, etc. (I'm not saying you should quit your job or what. I'm just trying to make you not lose your sanity by showing a different perspective!)

My goal is just to give my view on PATM:
- PATM is not that serious
- Don't make yourself crazy because of PATM
- Trying too hard to "fit in" costs a lot in term of effort and sanity (you might drain a lot of energy just to "fit in" and become more crazy)
- PATM is maybe just being outside the normal range of irritant gas production by the body (sometimes being "not normal" is good... for examples, some people in the world have a [genetic?] mutation that make them immune to AIDS) I don't know if PATM gives any benefits at all, but maybe we are just not in the normal range of irritant gas production... (By saying that I say that every humans produce irritant gas! So don't worry more than you should! ...In a way, every humans causes other humans some irritant effects to a certain degree...)

That's just my philosophical view on PATM. By all means, don't quit your jobs and change your life because what I write. All I want to say is a lot of people in this forum has loss grip with reality and sanity!

Just don't lose your sanity because of PATM.

Mental health is as precious as physical health.

I still hope for a scientific experiment to prove/disprove the existence of PATM and hopefully find a cure for it...

Does what I say makes sense or am I crazy?
16 Responses
Avatar universal
what you think, and what people suffer are 2 different things.

this board is full of spammers (mms/colidal silvertards) and people who wont give up on what they 'think' it is.

you dont need science to prove that these bites are actually real, they are physical.

from your post, you obviously dont suffer from it so why is it your concern?

once again, there are a lot of people on here with DIFFERENT PROBLEMS,
some have dermatitis, some have scabies/bird mites, some genuinely have mental problems. and some have got mental disorders FROM this problem (ocd and other things).

some things can be proven. like the many people in one room test..

that will prove a physical reaction.

it also proves, its so small and light it would be smaller than a particle of air..

that in itself says its nano-scopic.

im not sure that technology even exists, and if it does it obviously has not been put to use on this problem.

until that happens, we wont know what it is.

IF the technology exists.... then serious WTF if they havent found the cause.

its real. it lives/breeds on clothing. it likes sulphur and sulphates.

dont believe me?? wash your hair with selsun gold and your hair will have crawlies for days starting from the time its fully dry..

if anyone knows how to kill off the crawlies when they 'explode' in population like that please tell me...

it loves hair, and nails also.

its NOT GAS... people seriously need to wise up, its NOT gas.

maybe you have it so bad that you cant tell its mostly on your clothes???

i cant kill them off my clothes, i can kill 99.5% off me..
i can get new clothes, works fine for a day or 2.. but if i wash them they are 1000 times worse and im back to square one..

does water set it off? i have washed at a public laundry brand new stuff to test, and it still came out with that aura of invisible bugs.

i would have to say keep a grip on reality. dont let it take over your life..

nothing can be done until doctors listen, and they actually look into it with nanoscopes if the technology is there.. if it isn't then all you can do is wait.

reguarding the testing, theres one other method witch could work to capture them and identify them...

put highly infested clothing in some sort of tub with 100% pure clean water,
and then analyze the water but im not sure if finding things in parts per million would find it unless they actually had a test to find that thing they are looking for?? otherwise who knows but im sure in would have to show up a few hundred parts per million..

i'll say it again.. PATM IS NOT GAS.. NOT GAS.

its either a bug or a spore but i would say bug considering the itchy crawly feelings and bites. it might have come out from somewhere (a layer in the skin?) but it bites back in.

the bites themselves seem to be only from the mature bugs, if i had a pair of pants that was in my cupboard for a month and put them on i would get DEEP BITES that look real big but still no entry wound, if i scratch it it will leave a hole.. but if you get rid of that sensation for long enough and just go put on some new clothes (always careful handling them/dont let them touch anything infected) then all you get is crawlies...

i have had it so i get minimal crawlies for weeks, but as soon as i touch something infected it comes back..

last time it was a backpack i hadnt used for a month.. soon as i picked it up, within 2 minutes it was all through my hair and then that was it.. it covered me head to toe, and everyone around me was itching all the time, not just sometimes...

anyway.. makes some sense what you say. but no sense because its not gas related.

please everyone take note of this. no gas. bugs yes. gas no.

Avatar universal
Maybe what useful is to focus on the goal:
- Get some scientific experiments to prove that PATM exists or not (so scientists and doctors and start to find a real cure instead of ignoring our condition)
- Get some scientific experiments to test if whatever treatments for PATM is proposed really do a make a difference to cure PATM (a popular theory here is that PATM is caused by candida... what if candida does not affect PATM at all? has anybody noted down the number of coughs reduction in a way to remove subjective bias? maybe we all have candida but maybe it's not related to PATM at all!)

I'm saying, let's be careful with:
- The assumptions of what is PATM
- The assumptions of what is causing PATM
- The treatments used to cure PATM
- Saying "I found the cure!" and not having tested the "cure" long enough and noted down if the symptoms was reduced compared to the initial state (...and finding out later that it didn't work at all... it was maybe just some placebo effect, subjective feeling or some coincidence)

It might be interesting to be open-minded to fix PATM but not get too crazy in theories based on too many assumptions that are not proven, not verifiable and subjective.

Some random thoughts and reply:
- PATM could be caused by a bug/bacteria/mold/candida... Mold can release irritants.
- PATM could be caused by an irritant gas
- PATM could be a psychiatric disorder (the brain can cause physical symptoms too. It's frustrating to be told it could be "all in the head" but the head/brain does control the hole body and its reactions. Examples of psychiatric disorder bringing physical symptoms are hypochondria, delusional disorders that can cause weird feeling on the skin, rash, ...) (An analogy: a computer brain is the CPU, if the CPU is broken in some way, don't expect the keyboard/screen/mouse/Excel/calculator to function normally -> If a brain is broken in some way, don't expect the body/digestive system/cognition/sense perception/etc to function normally)
- PATM could be caused be autoimmune disorder (the body can respond too harshly to non-threatning things... examples of autoimmune response are allergies, urticaria, etc.)
- PATM could be caused by some smell, protein, skin particle or whatever else that we release.
- PATM could be none of the above and maybe we have no idea what cause PATM...

... In fact, I have no idea what cause PATM. Like everyone I just want PATM to disappear and not even think about it.

Here's a tip on a method I tried to verify somewhat scientifically if I caused cough to others:
- Note down the number of coughs people have in an hour when you are there
- Find some way so you can count the number of coughs people have in an hour when you are NOT there
- Do it many times in regular interval in the week... To check if you do affect the environment. As many times as possible to reduce the margin of error.
... I did that test before. And the number of coughs by people around did not change whether I was there OR NOT! So my test was inconclusive. It was not the perfect controlled environment I must say.

... So yes, I'm still not convinced if PATM is all in my head or if I really cause some coughs.

I don't care about the real cause of PATM I just want it to have never existed in my life. So I want a "cure" for it... WHATEVER IT REALLY IS.

You know are you delusional with PATM if you are so convinced that you cause all the coughs and nobody can succeed to convince you of any other alternative conclusion when in fact you are wrong after some fact checking. What if our cognitive process is flawed? What is our sense perception is flawed? Remember... The brain controls and affects everything related to our body, whether mental or physical.

So as of today 100% of people think I'm crazy when I talk them about PATM (except people in this forum). So I think I have some rights to doubt my own sanity... but at the same time... I also think that PATM is maybe real (not being some hypochondriac/delusional disorder). It's a very uncomfortable conflicting feeling.

Nobody have to follow my psychiatric disorder theory. I'm not 100% convinced myself. It's just an eternal doubt, a possibility, a frustrating open-minded thought. ...Like any other possibilities about what causes PATM.

It's like an obsession. I want closure. That's why I need scientific proofs to clarify it once and for all.
"Are we all crazy or do we all have an extremely weird condition?"
Avatar universal
Ok maybe I should leave a positive note...

All I care about is to make us all have a happy meaningful life. If we can one day find a cure for PATM that would be great!

Meanwhile I hope you guys all keep a good balance in your life.

Every day this forum helps us get closer to our goal. I'm really grateful for this forum. This is the only place people can believe me when I say I have PATM.

I have hope that we can cure PATM.

Have a good day! :)
Avatar universal
About 6 months ago I began noticing a feeling like I was being bitten along with some other strange observances. after spraying and bombing for every bug known to man I decided to give google a shot. What I found was many, many others with the same symptoms that I have....some variencies, but the basics were pretty much the same. And possibly some of the symptoms come later and I dont recognize them as I havent gotten to that chapter in this nightmare. Given the similarities in all of our cases, who could say we are delusional?? How could so many people randomly and unknowingly make up the same symptoms???
Avatar universal
We need to gather all our ideas and experiences to see if we can come to a conclusion or maybe i dont know doctors will start looking into it. I dont believe its psychiatric at all. For me it started at the beginning of high school during the fall im thinking somehting in my body changed some of the post ive read i noticed it was a teenager and another from someone that lived with it for 14 years they were probably young when it happened who knows it might have to do with puberty something changed for us. Thats all i can say, its not the clothes or our breathe although i noticed that when i wear something bought new the symptoms arent that heavy. So maybe something in the skin that doesnt cope or work well with ingredients on the detergent or body wash, soap. its definitely our skin, cause i could use the same detergent a lot of people use and it doesnt happen to them. So again its not clothes, its not our breathe, its not body odor or a smell. so buying a detergent or body wash that doesnt  have a scent wont help it still happens if anybody feels different and they feel like using scentless items helps let me know. the way i see it is 2 people could use same products lotions perfumes and both will smell great the same but if that person sits next to me they will start sneezing and coughing , sniffling etc they sit next to the other person who has the sam products and nothing . Anyways we need t help each other connect the dots and see if we can find a solution.
Avatar universal
what you wrote makes alot of sense and im glad i read it beacause this week i was losing my mind i got into deep depression i closed y self in a room told myslef to be strong dont cry show who i am beyond PATM but as you know it is very difficult i dont wanna become insane because of PATM but i have good days and bad days and on bad days i drink knowing its not good for a person with PATM but im suffering and have no one to vent with i wish there was a cure but as much as you make sense and have such a positive hope i cant sit and wait around for a miracle please advice me with some positive on how to heal because i feel like im dying inside out.
Avatar universal
i dont believe it is clothing i suffer from PATM and being naked with a guy intimately they still have the same affects sorry to go into detailed but even in the shower so there for it has to do with our bodies our bacterial in our bodies is unbalanced and docs wont help because this benefits them so try bone broth fasting it shall help  
Avatar universal
okay wait what are your symptoms do you have chronic bad breath bad odor itchy ears? cravings for sweets? im asking all this because if you do it may not be PATM it could be TMAU  and as much as i wanna not believe i have that cause i never heard any one say i smell like fish they have only asked if i farted when i havent which i believe  i may smell like dead bacteria and i have done full body cleanse i dry brush skin first before showering and take care of my self more then others and they dont get reactions like i do it truly hurts because i eat healthy and the person who eats like a pig doesnt suffer like i do
Avatar universal
its true what you say about the scent for Christmas and my birthday i always receive body lotions and sprays and i try them on once in a full moon and when i do i get compliments about me smelling good but once i open my mouth to say thank you they begin to cough or clear their throat  :(
Avatar universal
i meant to say i believe it is NOT clothing
Avatar universal
Nice post , but I'd rather have experience help me how to avoid as many emotional disturbances as possible.  We learn grow and understand rather than demanding attention from science.. Western  science won't look at this , there's stigma to it even in the scientific fields. Our only hope is it goes viral and it becomes talked about!
Avatar universal
A medical expert may even rub his nose then give you a reference about needing to grow and harden yourself a bit... because he senses a weak or victimised spirit in you but feels uncomfortable being overt.
Then you won't get his hints because you're obsessed with the bizarre aspect.
Because it's talked about and understood  in lots of different ways.. As for the bizarre way it comes into people's lives.. so life suddenly rained on us, I don't get why it's as bad as it is for some people or why there's no relief for people who haven't really seen any negative behavior before especially  such strange repeated BS.. But it's still what we see is as it is,  and our obsessive minds over pesonalizing 50 percent of non- negative body language (some coughs are corrections or not ill intent, others are)

It's as if the vibes we give off become so toxic because of the types of expectations we have of people coughing. And that gets more over time until we learn both to be fearless and master our minds way of thinking, to change focus and not 'expect' negative behavior

The mind is so powerful it's creating the bizarre existence of patm. You have to use the power and harness the same mind making the difficulties to take those difficulties away.
Or you can dismiss everything i say because it's not on a blackboard.
Avatar universal
Maybe our problem is we learn it in school, develop our adult personality morally to forget the balance (a bit of dominance to our vibes needed) we learn 'as a kid' . Then we overlook  everything we forgot to add to our adult personality because we believe to be softer and moral is a 'better person'..
Avatar universal
When patm  looms again, and i start to fret ill get it as bad as i did before as it does once your free of it, my only hope and way of steering myself from that 'existence' again is knowing I've learned how to nurture my inner child. . I know i can use the nurturing of my inner fire to assert, gain respect,  and not be bothered about reactions again.
We will always have to come to this 'I can be bold be rid of and not obsess ' to gain a head over the situation  happening again.
Otherwise the coughing ,fretting, bad life, causing more reactions will happen.
Avatar universal
Nice article. Yes we have to investigate. But we are not professional, and without skills and without means to do that. We need recognition from the medical community.
Avatar universal
There is a scientific experiment to prove that patm exist. In fact there are many but I know one that can show more than just existence. It can show us precisely the compounds causing allergies on other people. In fact I don't need stupid doctors for it. Even doctors, if they are convinced, will call upon chemists to perform anything to verify this. Doctors are almost useless for me now because I know almost everything they'd do if they attempt to solve this problem.
I need the help of chemists, biochemists, laboratory technicians etc. Physicians can go to hell.. ... what they know is almost useless to me now. They can join the useless discipline of psychologist. Prof. Michio Kaku once said that a physicians job in the future will become obsolete as computers will be automated to give better diagnoses and the internet will hook us up with powerful supercomputers that can diagnose almost anything... a billion times better than the best doctors put together.
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