Aa
PATM still going on....I hate how this forum is set up (no continuity)!
Hi everyone,
It’s been a long time since I’ve been on here (I think like 2 years) anyways like many of you I am still suffering from this horrible plague. In the time that I have been away I have done a lot of research on my own…let’s just say I didn’t get too far but I thought I would share it with you and get some feedback and perhaps put our minds together. So bare with me as I go through my thought process.
What we know so far, it is a “gas/VOC” and it is produced by our bodies, some have no smell while others do. So, starting from the basic facts that we know is true about the human body. I looked at all the primary gases our body (GI tract) can produce which is: CO2, O2, methane, hydrogen, nitrogen and sulfur including short-chain fatty acids (known to be volatile) via digestion.
Looking at the reactions reported by others in our presence: can’t breathe, muggy air(humidity), feeling hot, and of course the coughing, throat clearing/tickle in throat, sneezing, yawning/sleepy, hunger/thirst and many more.
Now looking at mugginess specifically, it is caused my green house gases such as water vapor, CO2, methane, ozone and nitrous oxides. Mugginess contributes to difficulty breathing, sweating, asthma, hot air, and increase of allergic reactions to spores, dust mites, VOC’s etc.
In both cases similar gases are found as well as similar reactions have been reported in relation to PATM. Coincidence?
As per ray2502, with TMAU, people have reported a fishy odour however no above symptoms were reported such as the clearing of throats and difficulty breathing etc. It is more of an odor problem.
For those with PATM and an odour, that odor could be from the sulfur component in our body which has a pungent odorous smell.
Anyways to continue on…with my research so far, I keep coming back to disorders of digestion as the cause. I looked back (way, way back) into my own history, even before I discovered I had PATM. My mom told me that when I was a baby I would drink milk and after I was done it would come out of my nose. I looked it up and although common in infants it relates to reflux. I also had bad breath as a young child and it wasn’t my breath per say but more so coming from further down (like my stomach). As I got older, it eventually went away on its own or did it…. I find now whenever I eat certain foods like chocolate, high fat foods, dairy (milk) my PATM would get worse (coincidence?). Side note: bad breath can be associated with poor digestion of proteins.
There was a post by Nusmind while back who said someone was cured from PATM “am579 cured from allergies PATM in 2011” I read all the collected posts and it was exactly what my research kept coming back too. If you would like to read it, the post is dated Apr 2, 2017.
After trying to connect all the information above, my theories are GERD vs. NERD (silent reflux/LPR)--apparently hard to treat vs. pancreatic insufficiency (low grade?) vs. gastroparesis vs. IBS vs. leak gut vs. some sort of malabsorption (carbs etc.).
And here’s a blurb from a wiki page I found for LPR -- The lower esophageal sphincter, which is the valve between the stomach and the esophagus, may not close properly due to a hiatal hernia or GERD, allowing acid to enter the esophagus and GASES to escape to the mouth.
I wonder if anyone has tried pancreatic enzymes (the real stuff) such as Viokase or Creon; prokinetics like Maxeran, Domperidone; PPI’s or other like Ranitidine. How many people have reported having reflux? Has anyone had the following tests: amylase/lipase enzymes checked, gastric emptying study, breath tests for lactulose or other?
Leaky gut may be the cause of why some of us reported to have low LDL cholesterol and iron deficiency (poor absorption). I did find a product that I have recently started trying (don’t really know if its helping as I haven’t been taking it consistently) it’s called MS+ (Mandarin Skin plus). It helps with leaky gut by repairing tight junctions. Here’s the website for more info.: https://msplus.ca/
The other thing I wanted to add is last year I spent the whole year trying to get my serum blood and urine samples tested at the same lab that MEBO did (TMIC lab). And this is before I knew MEBO was doing any research with them. I had sent a letter about my situation in Jan 2016 to the head department and luckily, they said they would help me, however communication wasn’t very good via email so I didn’t get my samples shipped to them until Dec 2016! Anyways I had NMR and DI-LCMS done, initially I was so excited but when I got the results, I didn’t know what to make of them. Nothing particularly stood out plus the test only tested for a certain number of metabolites which sucks. I will say I had both high and low amino acids and high lactate (whatever that means, yikes!). I am planning to do more tests as they still have some of my samples in storage but I need to know what…I’m thinking either GCMS, NMR for my urine, maybe fatty acid metabolism...still figuring it out.
Another question I was trying to figure out is whether it’s a true allergy reaction people are having or is it a symptom of the offending cause, like irritation etc.
Anyways, these are just my thoughts….hopefully it makes some sense.
It’s been a long time since I’ve been on here (I think like 2 years) anyways like many of you I am still suffering from this horrible plague. In the time that I have been away I have done a lot of research on my own…let’s just say I didn’t get too far but I thought I would share it with you and get some feedback and perhaps put our minds together. So bare with me as I go through my thought process.
What we know so far, it is a “gas/VOC” and it is produced by our bodies, some have no smell while others do. So, starting from the basic facts that we know is true about the human body. I looked at all the primary gases our body (GI tract) can produce which is: CO2, O2, methane, hydrogen, nitrogen and sulfur including short-chain fatty acids (known to be volatile) via digestion.
Looking at the reactions reported by others in our presence: can’t breathe, muggy air(humidity), feeling hot, and of course the coughing, throat clearing/tickle in throat, sneezing, yawning/sleepy, hunger/thirst and many more.
Now looking at mugginess specifically, it is caused my green house gases such as water vapor, CO2, methane, ozone and nitrous oxides. Mugginess contributes to difficulty breathing, sweating, asthma, hot air, and increase of allergic reactions to spores, dust mites, VOC’s etc.
In both cases similar gases are found as well as similar reactions have been reported in relation to PATM. Coincidence?
As per ray2502, with TMAU, people have reported a fishy odour however no above symptoms were reported such as the clearing of throats and difficulty breathing etc. It is more of an odor problem.
For those with PATM and an odour, that odor could be from the sulfur component in our body which has a pungent odorous smell.
Anyways to continue on…with my research so far, I keep coming back to disorders of digestion as the cause. I looked back (way, way back) into my own history, even before I discovered I had PATM. My mom told me that when I was a baby I would drink milk and after I was done it would come out of my nose. I looked it up and although common in infants it relates to reflux. I also had bad breath as a young child and it wasn’t my breath per say but more so coming from further down (like my stomach). As I got older, it eventually went away on its own or did it…. I find now whenever I eat certain foods like chocolate, high fat foods, dairy (milk) my PATM would get worse (coincidence?). Side note: bad breath can be associated with poor digestion of proteins.
There was a post by Nusmind while back who said someone was cured from PATM “am579 cured from allergies PATM in 2011” I read all the collected posts and it was exactly what my research kept coming back too. If you would like to read it, the post is dated Apr 2, 2017.
After trying to connect all the information above, my theories are GERD vs. NERD (silent reflux/LPR)--apparently hard to treat vs. pancreatic insufficiency (low grade?) vs. gastroparesis vs. IBS vs. leak gut vs. some sort of malabsorption (carbs etc.).
And here’s a blurb from a wiki page I found for LPR -- The lower esophageal sphincter, which is the valve between the stomach and the esophagus, may not close properly due to a hiatal hernia or GERD, allowing acid to enter the esophagus and GASES to escape to the mouth.
I wonder if anyone has tried pancreatic enzymes (the real stuff) such as Viokase or Creon; prokinetics like Maxeran, Domperidone; PPI’s or other like Ranitidine. How many people have reported having reflux? Has anyone had the following tests: amylase/lipase enzymes checked, gastric emptying study, breath tests for lactulose or other?
Leaky gut may be the cause of why some of us reported to have low LDL cholesterol and iron deficiency (poor absorption). I did find a product that I have recently started trying (don’t really know if its helping as I haven’t been taking it consistently) it’s called MS+ (Mandarin Skin plus). It helps with leaky gut by repairing tight junctions. Here’s the website for more info.: https://msplus.ca/
The other thing I wanted to add is last year I spent the whole year trying to get my serum blood and urine samples tested at the same lab that MEBO did (TMIC lab). And this is before I knew MEBO was doing any research with them. I had sent a letter about my situation in Jan 2016 to the head department and luckily, they said they would help me, however communication wasn’t very good via email so I didn’t get my samples shipped to them until Dec 2016! Anyways I had NMR and DI-LCMS done, initially I was so excited but when I got the results, I didn’t know what to make of them. Nothing particularly stood out plus the test only tested for a certain number of metabolites which sucks. I will say I had both high and low amino acids and high lactate (whatever that means, yikes!). I am planning to do more tests as they still have some of my samples in storage but I need to know what…I’m thinking either GCMS, NMR for my urine, maybe fatty acid metabolism...still figuring it out.
Another question I was trying to figure out is whether it’s a true allergy reaction people are having or is it a symptom of the offending cause, like irritation etc.
Anyways, these are just my thoughts….hopefully it makes some sense.
Its psychological thing in the mind, not related to body
1 Comments
I'm Afraid PATM is no mental issue, perhaps you aren't enough clever or balanced to understand it
the bacteria develop the elextromagnetism which is like their resau Wi-Fi according to
Allan Widom .." that the circulation of electrons within chromosomes is proven, and that the scientific literature has recently described the natural formation of "nanowires" between bacteria, in which an electronic current could be measured. A kind of bacterial communication network. Conclusion of the physicist: the magnetic field could be the wireless version of the phenomenon. Bacterial Wifi"
Allan Widom .." that the circulation of electrons within chromosomes is proven, and that the scientific literature has recently described the natural formation of "nanowires" between bacteria, in which an electronic current could be measured. A kind of bacterial communication network. Conclusion of the physicist: the magnetic field could be the wireless version of the phenomenon. Bacterial Wifi"
1 Comments
Resau=network (french)
Can you add me on snapchat? My username is alex_gu256 i want to talk to you about patm since i see your thinking is very logical and ive been looking for someone like you.
It doesn't seem to explain why people become tired, drowsy and even fall asleep. Whatever this is seems to also cross the blood-brain barrier.
So recently I read an article on yawning and it was really interesting which explains why people around us yawn because they are physically experiencing stress. Yawning is a sign of stress. This is horrible to hear because we in fact are causing stress even harm to people around us.
Here's the link to the article: https://furthermore.equinox.com/articles/2017/09/yawning
It also explains why some people complain of feeling hot.
Here's the link to the article: https://furthermore.equinox.com/articles/2017/09/yawning
It also explains why some people complain of feeling hot.
Obviously there are several types of PATM: the Morg-related type (fibers, etc. which I don't have), the Wave type (EM wave i.e. electricity or other types of waves, for those like me that have the type that travels at extremely high speeds), people who think it's gas-based (may be a less severe type) or emotionally-based (can't comment on this).
8 Comments
electrical i agree
My PATM is certainly wave based, either electromagnetic or sound. I suspect that the mechanism may be similar in TMAU and some other rare diseases. That is, even though there may be detectable odor etc associated with those diseases, the mechanism by which people become allergic may still be wave based.
no otherwise we would have smell our odour. But i never smelled it. Others also never told me. Its electric based as it damages laptop, Screen
@unravel
Yes your last sentence is what i think as well. People with tmau do have an odor but in my opinion patm just occurs when people (subconsciously) think they are smelling bad and then (possibly at a stressful event) start to change their inner focus which infact would be the case by many people with tmau.
Yes your last sentence is what i think as well. People with tmau do have an odor but in my opinion patm just occurs when people (subconsciously) think they are smelling bad and then (possibly at a stressful event) start to change their inner focus which infact would be the case by many people with tmau.
Yes, I think body odor can change the patient's emotional state, which in turn triggers PATM waves. People react most directly to the PATM waves, not to the body odor.
I doubt that PATM waves can damage laptop screens. However I did seem to observe that these waves cause some mechanical disturbances in my room, in particular for loose objects like old keyboards or fridge doors. I am not sure about the correlation yet, but this possibility did lead me to suspect that these waves may be mechanical (i.e. sound) instead of electromagnetic.
Maybe some insect,fly would cause the damage screen. That too patm activates these organisms Which might enter the screen
For tmau, I have a tmau2 diagnosis from cleveland clinic...the odor from tmau2 is most likely a metabolite (waste product) of the synthesis of the pathogen/bacteria/fungus in the gut and no, I don't think that the odor itself travels in waves like electricity or sound. If anything, the tmau2 odor is just a regular gas, however a very alkaline gas which is irritating (oven cleaner is very alkaline and very irritating). That's why not all people with tmau have patm. I cause patm sometimes when I can smell an odor and sometimes there is no odor.
The patm is more related to a nerve impulses which "broadcast" whatever causes the patm at very high speeds, but probably not beyond a reasonable radius (like a soundwave can not be heard miles away). I have observed very strange phenomenon which also make me think it is not electrical but mechanical, or some kind of plasma (like a plasma tube or sphere), or maybe a change in pressure.
The patm is more related to a nerve impulses which "broadcast" whatever causes the patm at very high speeds, but probably not beyond a reasonable radius (like a soundwave can not be heard miles away). I have observed very strange phenomenon which also make me think it is not electrical but mechanical, or some kind of plasma (like a plasma tube or sphere), or maybe a change in pressure.
Here's something I found reading about HCl "Drugs of the antihistaminic and proton pump inhibitor classes can inhibit the production of acid in the stomach, and antacids are used to neutralize existing acid." Maybe that's why allergy meds are helping.
Perhaps the acid in our stomach is the cause...maybe it's producing a byproduct or something?? Also explains why certain foods make PATM worse.
Foods that make GERD worse are:
coffee, alcohol, chocolate, fatty foods, acidic foods, spicy foods and carbonated beverages...these are a lot of the foods many PATMers have reported. Coincidence? I wonder if anyone has tried the anti-reflux diet/therapy?
Just my thoughts.
Perhaps the acid in our stomach is the cause...maybe it's producing a byproduct or something?? Also explains why certain foods make PATM worse.
Foods that make GERD worse are:
coffee, alcohol, chocolate, fatty foods, acidic foods, spicy foods and carbonated beverages...these are a lot of the foods many PATMers have reported. Coincidence? I wonder if anyone has tried the anti-reflux diet/therapy?
Just my thoughts.
7 Comments
This could be an underlying cause. While on the hpylori treatment, I was told to follow a gerd diet which didn't help with the odor condition. Diet is one of the main concerns but what if we do water fasting and green juices? Tried that, didn't work.
Which comes down to something that's in excess within our bodies. I'm doing the anti histamine approach without being tested for histamine levels in the blood. Why? Don't know, just feel some of these supplements would release something beneficial to the gut and bloodstream.
How long have you been fighting this?
Which comes down to something that's in excess within our bodies. I'm doing the anti histamine approach without being tested for histamine levels in the blood. Why? Don't know, just feel some of these supplements would release something beneficial to the gut and bloodstream.
How long have you been fighting this?
Hello Jon3456,
I've been tested in the past for Allergy's and yes the doctor pricked me several times on the arm with different types of allergens. I still have my results from the doctors office that shows that I'm not allergic to anything really.
I did find out that
Bacteria also are capable of producing histamine using histidine decarboxylase enzymes unrelated to those found in animals.
As far as humans go,
Histamines attach to the cells in your body. They cause the cells to swell and leak fluid. This can cause itching, sneezing, runny nose, and watery eyes. Antihistamines prevent histamines from attaching to your cells and causing symptoms.
That's what has me confused. I don't understand how my body is releasing histamines that irritates other people's membranes but I'm totally fine. I'm a walking allergen.
See below:
Effects on nasal mucous membrane:
Increased vascular permeability causes fluid to escape from capillaries into the tissues, which leads to the classic symptoms of an allergic reaction: a runny nose and watery eyes. Allergens can bind to IgE-loaded mast cells in the nasal cavity's mucous membranes. This can lead to three clinical responses:[18]
1.sneezing due to histamine-associated sensory neural stimulation
2.hyper-secretion from glandular tissue
3.nasal congestion due to vascular engorgement associated with vasodilation and increased capillary permeability
Sleep-wake regulation[edit]
Histamine is released as a neurotransmitter. The cell bodies of histamine neurons are found in the posterior hypothalamus, in the tuberomammillary nuclei. From here, these neurons project throughout the brain, including to the cortex, through the medial forebrain bundle. Histamine neurons increase wakefulness and prevent sleep.[19] Classically, antihistamines (H1 histamine receptor antagonists) which cross the blood-brain barrier produce drowsiness. Newer antihistamines are designed to not cross into the brain and thus are less likely to cause sedation, although individual reactions, concomitant medications and dosage may increase the sedative effect. Similar to the effect of older antihistamines, destruction of histamine releasing neurons, or inhibition of histamine synthesis leads to an inability to maintain vigilance. Finally, H3 receptor antagonists increase wakefulness.
Histaminergic neurons have a wakefulness-related firing pattern. They fire rapidly during waking, fire more slowly during periods of relaxation/tiredness and completely stop firing during REM and NREM (non-REM) sleep.
Gastric acid release[edit]
Enterochromaffin-like cells, located within the gastric glands of the stomach, release histamine that stimulates nearby parietal cells by binding to the apical H2 receptor. Stimulation of the parietal cell induces the uptake of carbon dioxide and water from the blood, which is then converted to carbonic acid by the enzyme carbonic anhydrase. Inside the cytoplasm of the parietal cell, the carbonic acid readily dissociates into hydrogen and bicarbonate ions. The bicarbonate ions diffuse back through the basilar membrane and into the bloodstream, while the hydrogen ions are pumped into the lumen of the stomach via a K+/H+ ATPase pump. Histamine release is halted when the pH of the stomach starts to decrease. Antagonist molecules, like ranitidine, block the H2 receptor and prevent histamine from binding, causing decreased hydrogen ion secretion.
Histamines attach to the cells in your body. They cause the cells to swell and leak fluid. This can cause itching, sneezing, runny nose, and watery eyes. Antihistamines prevent histamines from attaching to your cells and causing symptoms.
I've been tested in the past for Allergy's and yes the doctor pricked me several times on the arm with different types of allergens. I still have my results from the doctors office that shows that I'm not allergic to anything really.
I did find out that
Bacteria also are capable of producing histamine using histidine decarboxylase enzymes unrelated to those found in animals.
As far as humans go,
Histamines attach to the cells in your body. They cause the cells to swell and leak fluid. This can cause itching, sneezing, runny nose, and watery eyes. Antihistamines prevent histamines from attaching to your cells and causing symptoms.
That's what has me confused. I don't understand how my body is releasing histamines that irritates other people's membranes but I'm totally fine. I'm a walking allergen.
See below:
Effects on nasal mucous membrane:
Increased vascular permeability causes fluid to escape from capillaries into the tissues, which leads to the classic symptoms of an allergic reaction: a runny nose and watery eyes. Allergens can bind to IgE-loaded mast cells in the nasal cavity's mucous membranes. This can lead to three clinical responses:[18]
1.sneezing due to histamine-associated sensory neural stimulation
2.hyper-secretion from glandular tissue
3.nasal congestion due to vascular engorgement associated with vasodilation and increased capillary permeability
Sleep-wake regulation[edit]
Histamine is released as a neurotransmitter. The cell bodies of histamine neurons are found in the posterior hypothalamus, in the tuberomammillary nuclei. From here, these neurons project throughout the brain, including to the cortex, through the medial forebrain bundle. Histamine neurons increase wakefulness and prevent sleep.[19] Classically, antihistamines (H1 histamine receptor antagonists) which cross the blood-brain barrier produce drowsiness. Newer antihistamines are designed to not cross into the brain and thus are less likely to cause sedation, although individual reactions, concomitant medications and dosage may increase the sedative effect. Similar to the effect of older antihistamines, destruction of histamine releasing neurons, or inhibition of histamine synthesis leads to an inability to maintain vigilance. Finally, H3 receptor antagonists increase wakefulness.
Histaminergic neurons have a wakefulness-related firing pattern. They fire rapidly during waking, fire more slowly during periods of relaxation/tiredness and completely stop firing during REM and NREM (non-REM) sleep.
Gastric acid release[edit]
Enterochromaffin-like cells, located within the gastric glands of the stomach, release histamine that stimulates nearby parietal cells by binding to the apical H2 receptor. Stimulation of the parietal cell induces the uptake of carbon dioxide and water from the blood, which is then converted to carbonic acid by the enzyme carbonic anhydrase. Inside the cytoplasm of the parietal cell, the carbonic acid readily dissociates into hydrogen and bicarbonate ions. The bicarbonate ions diffuse back through the basilar membrane and into the bloodstream, while the hydrogen ions are pumped into the lumen of the stomach via a K+/H+ ATPase pump. Histamine release is halted when the pH of the stomach starts to decrease. Antagonist molecules, like ranitidine, block the H2 receptor and prevent histamine from binding, causing decreased hydrogen ion secretion.
Histamines attach to the cells in your body. They cause the cells to swell and leak fluid. This can cause itching, sneezing, runny nose, and watery eyes. Antihistamines prevent histamines from attaching to your cells and causing symptoms.
The other thing I found weird is that people around us seem to become drowsy/tired...in the case of histamine it does the opposite. However, I think chronic histamine release over time can make you tired and fatigue because your body is working hard to defend itself as occurs with chronic allergy sufferers. However drowsiness and tiredness in the presence of PATM is usually almost immediate...which makes me believe it's not histamine. Plus the DI-LC-MS that I had done did not detect histamine in my body (I am going to confirm this again with the lab, just to make sure).
Hi Jon3456,
I officially discovered I had PATM in Dec 2013, however I believe I've had it longer but just didn't realize it. As I looked back to my past and friends as well as people I worked with it, it was apparent I had it for a longer period of time.
I did have another question for everyone, has anyone completely removed wheat/gluten from their diet and still have reactions. I am saying this because I was watching a documentary called: What's with Wheat and they talk about why most of us cannot tolerate it due to the way it is produced and processed including the use of chemicals/pesticides etc. They do link it to leaky gut and autoimmune diseases. Although the doc focuses on wheat, it can also be said about our food supply...fruits/veg, meat, and so on. Basically they were saying to get rid of wheat/gluten to repair your gut and even potentially turn off bad genes and turn on good genes over time (sounds hopeful). They suggest to do an elimination diet...so remove gluten/wheat for 6 weeks then reintroduce it and see how you feel. Anyways the 80 min doc is available on Netflix if you guys are interested.
To add, wheat/gluten have been linked to GERD as well.
I officially discovered I had PATM in Dec 2013, however I believe I've had it longer but just didn't realize it. As I looked back to my past and friends as well as people I worked with it, it was apparent I had it for a longer period of time.
I did have another question for everyone, has anyone completely removed wheat/gluten from their diet and still have reactions. I am saying this because I was watching a documentary called: What's with Wheat and they talk about why most of us cannot tolerate it due to the way it is produced and processed including the use of chemicals/pesticides etc. They do link it to leaky gut and autoimmune diseases. Although the doc focuses on wheat, it can also be said about our food supply...fruits/veg, meat, and so on. Basically they were saying to get rid of wheat/gluten to repair your gut and even potentially turn off bad genes and turn on good genes over time (sounds hopeful). They suggest to do an elimination diet...so remove gluten/wheat for 6 weeks then reintroduce it and see how you feel. Anyways the 80 min doc is available on Netflix if you guys are interested.
To add, wheat/gluten have been linked to GERD as well.
ray2502, what you say is absolutely right. We're like walking allergens. As much as i feel that histamine could be a cause for this, it still doesnt explain how it cant travel to lengths. The antihistamines that one use is to block histamine production and clear away coughs/sneezes.
On another note, what antihistamine's have you started using besides claritine?
On another note, what antihistamine's have you started using besides claritine?
jn4357, am sure we had it for a longer phase but we only realized it a lot later. Why? Since our minds werent so occupied with thinking and reacting to others behaviors/comments. For me it started way back in school when teachers used to complain about the stench. Ofcourse, at that point i used to think it was my sweating condition since i oversweat than most. Bromohidrosis is to blame.
Over the years, i tried different diets including the no gluten/lactose diet which i still follow to an extent. There was also a raw food diet which i followed after a green juice diet. At the end of each diet stage (3-4 weeks), i wouldnt introduce anything new. Outcome was that i lost almost 10kgs and was very weak.
Its beneficial to our bodies to go no gluten/lactose whenever possible. But this definitely isnt the cause.
Over the years, i tried different diets including the no gluten/lactose diet which i still follow to an extent. There was also a raw food diet which i followed after a green juice diet. At the end of each diet stage (3-4 weeks), i wouldnt introduce anything new. Outcome was that i lost almost 10kgs and was very weak.
Its beneficial to our bodies to go no gluten/lactose whenever possible. But this definitely isnt the cause.
I will keep repeating my doubts about; speed of propagation of the PATM and the ability not to discriminate the climate, also the ability to pass through glass windows. I did the Candidasis albicans diet, low in carbohydrates, gluten free, low in histamine in the latter, and the symptoms of PATM remain the same, the only thing that decreased to PATM was that; Reflect a little on me, I remembered "grudges" of the past, lower anxiety-stress, eat 3 times a day with more vegetables, recover my self-esteem and think about who I am and I have the right to live, with all that go down to PATM in 50%, it is important to face the problem, if you think that it affects people the PATM seeing a group of people go there, it becomes a little challenge .... Frankly, no one explains that it would become PATM, I do not know if it is; gas, spores, slings, etc. On the other hand the doctor told me; if you had fungus-bacteria on your skin or blood, this would be noticed in the blood test, you would also notice the infections on the skin, bone, I have nothing on the skin, ... Another thing; my PATM seems to get worse when I crash with my bike at 40 km / h and I fracture my shoulder, from there I get worse on my PATM because I myself felt less having an arm mistreated, I am currently undergoing surgery to join the bones of my shoulder but for the moment I'm fine, I do not hurt anything, only that there is a bone protruding, sometimes I imagine that the PATM increased due to the excessive generation of antibodies that fight to heal and heal my fractured Shoulder, or simply psychologically I blame myself a lot and I feel less than others having a fractured shoulder, I do not know, my doubts continue to grow.
Hi ray2502,
In the past I did try allergy medication, I used Reactine however it did not help. I was reading the medications your using right now and each of them target different inflammatory mediators such as leukotrienes and the other is histamine, perhaps that's a clue?
It's horrible that your wife is dealing with the consequences of your PATM, my family too is effected by it. It's really upsetting because your the one causing it but have no clue what it is.
Hi FPATM,
I remember reading about mastocytosis as well and the disease is so ambiguous, they list multiple symptoms (which some do match) but there is no definite diagnosis... you have to do multiple tests and hopefully find something. Here's are link to a site I found, they talk about testing: http://www.mastocytosis.ca/en/
I like the thought behind ECL cells and histamine which are stimulated by gastrin, which produces HCL, thus contributing to people also having acid reflux or NERD (non-erosive reflux). The only thing is if it produces so much of this type of histamine then we would develop tumors or worse.
Also another thing about histamine, if it's effecting people near us then why aren't we effected to a higher degree such as skin hives, intense itching and stuff like that. I've had a skin prick allergy test done and they usually will poke you with histamine to make sure you have a true histamine response, and I did. I'm not saying it's not possible but in this example it doesn't really fit the puzzle.
Sorry for being such a downer :(
In the past I did try allergy medication, I used Reactine however it did not help. I was reading the medications your using right now and each of them target different inflammatory mediators such as leukotrienes and the other is histamine, perhaps that's a clue?
It's horrible that your wife is dealing with the consequences of your PATM, my family too is effected by it. It's really upsetting because your the one causing it but have no clue what it is.
Hi FPATM,
I remember reading about mastocytosis as well and the disease is so ambiguous, they list multiple symptoms (which some do match) but there is no definite diagnosis... you have to do multiple tests and hopefully find something. Here's are link to a site I found, they talk about testing: http://www.mastocytosis.ca/en/
I like the thought behind ECL cells and histamine which are stimulated by gastrin, which produces HCL, thus contributing to people also having acid reflux or NERD (non-erosive reflux). The only thing is if it produces so much of this type of histamine then we would develop tumors or worse.
Also another thing about histamine, if it's effecting people near us then why aren't we effected to a higher degree such as skin hives, intense itching and stuff like that. I've had a skin prick allergy test done and they usually will poke you with histamine to make sure you have a true histamine response, and I did. I'm not saying it's not possible but in this example it doesn't really fit the puzzle.
Sorry for being such a downer :(
Reading more about these ECL cells and mast cells and I feel like there has to be a connection here. They both store and release histamine. Found in gastric glands beneath the epithelium. So I'm thinking something along the lines of this histamine at the gut level is being released (into our blood/ skin?) because we also suffer from leaky gut perhaps? I wish dontgiveuphope would come back to the forum soon. He seems to always have a really fundamentally sound scientific approach to this whole thing. I'm just shooting from the hip here.
9 Comments
Day 2 update: Well, day 1 at work may have been lucky haha. Had some reactions at grocery last night and a few today at work. Still seems better but hard to say for sure. Will keep taking and also try to implement a low histamine diet. Definitely try to cut out alcohol. From what I have read online, antihistamines do not help lower histamine levels but rather, block the receptor sites to reduce reactions. So there's not a logical reason they should really help out with PATM. But if Ray has had success, and I've seemingly had a little so far, I'm going to stick with it. But I do feel that histamine must be escaping our bodies somehow. Will keep updated. Have a good weekend everyone!
Fpatm, thanks for the update. I took the claritin this morning as well. After like 6 hours, i stepped out for a walk and still it seems to not make any difference. Mind you, ive an odor + PATM.
Its good to see that it has helped you out as well, even if its just a small percentage of reduction, you know there's a chance of healing your body. God bless.
For the rest of us, keep hanging in there.
Its good to see that it has helped you out as well, even if its just a small percentage of reduction, you know there's a chance of healing your body. God bless.
For the rest of us, keep hanging in there.
Hi Jon3456.To reduce the odor you need low histamine probiotic.I'm sure about this.
Thanks mindspace. That's a new ground :) Im almost done with the raw kombucha+SB, another few pills left. Didnt helpt a bit.
Are you on low hist probiotics? If so, can you please share me some insight on this?
Are you on low hist probiotics? If so, can you please share me some insight on this?
It's difficult I know but not impossible.You have to choose probiotic with low histamine bacteria and also it's important that probiotic shouldn't contain traces of allergens(diary,soy etc).Lactobacillus bacteria with low histamine are:plantarum,rhamnosus,salivarus and gasseri.All bifidobacteria are with low histamine,I'm not sure about bifidobacteria lactis but maybe it's not a problem.If probiotic contains more bifidobacteria is better.You should take no more than 6 billion bacteria per day.I reduce odor symptomps with probiotic with more bifidobacteria.I ordered kyo-dophilus 9 but that was 2 days ago and I should wait about 2 weeks for delivery.
Mind space, I did some reading around histamine lowering Probiotics and the study says, you'll need to take prebiotics to create stronger grounds for the bifido strains to multiply. I've ordered a combination prebiotic FOS+GOS along with a probiotic. Read about Gos when you can since there's a lot of benefits this can do to our bodies.
Also try and introduce resistant starch from the cooked and cooled approach. Hope all of this would reduce the odor.
Also try and introduce resistant starch from the cooked and cooled approach. Hope all of this would reduce the odor.
hey fpatm, any progress with the loratadine? Ive been on it for the past 4 days, it seems to be reducing the coughs but not quite sure if its that or the homocysteine pills.
What dose are you taking daily?
What dose are you taking daily?
Jon3456-
Hey sorry for the delayed reply here. I stopped taking the claratin after the package ran out as I wasn’t finding it to be effective. :( I was just taking one tablet per day. I’m wondering if it’s worth trying the other that Ray was on in conjunction perhaps? Singulair I believe was the other. But back to the drawing board for me :( sigh. Started vegetarian diet a couple days ago. I really need to give up alcohol and coffee but that’s proving to be difficult, especially after long PATM days at the office.
Hey sorry for the delayed reply here. I stopped taking the claratin after the package ran out as I wasn’t finding it to be effective. :( I was just taking one tablet per day. I’m wondering if it’s worth trying the other that Ray was on in conjunction perhaps? Singulair I believe was the other. But back to the drawing board for me :( sigh. Started vegetarian diet a couple days ago. I really need to give up alcohol and coffee but that’s proving to be difficult, especially after long PATM days at the office.
Thanks for the update Fpatm :) From deep within i know that there's nothing out there over the counter that could serve as a cure. But what's the harm in trying haha
There's a site on the mebo blog that stated loratadine to reduce odor for people suffering from apocrine bromhidrosis. The recommended dose is usually 10mg daily but the site mentioned overdose of above 50mg. I've gone upto 60mg per day but not in one serving. I couldn't find any research on taking overdoses of loratadine in one serving so didn't want to go down that route. So i took the overdose for a week but didn't see much difference. But the onion odor from my armpits is reduced by 50%. Perhaps it's the vitamins that's kicking in.
Veg diet is awesome. But is it helping? :)
There's a site on the mebo blog that stated loratadine to reduce odor for people suffering from apocrine bromhidrosis. The recommended dose is usually 10mg daily but the site mentioned overdose of above 50mg. I've gone upto 60mg per day but not in one serving. I couldn't find any research on taking overdoses of loratadine in one serving so didn't want to go down that route. So i took the overdose for a week but didn't see much difference. But the onion odor from my armpits is reduced by 50%. Perhaps it's the vitamins that's kicking in.
Veg diet is awesome. But is it helping? :)
Doing some reading about histamine and it sounds like it's possible that it can be released by human skin mast cells? Could this explain how both taking antihistamines and imissjack's skin scrub methods are both effective?
3 Comments
An observation I've had- the two people in my life who have always reacted the most both have seasonal/cat allergies frequently. So the histamine explanation continues to make more sense to me. Day 1 taking antihistamine meds. So far today at work has been pretty good. A couple reactions but way less than normal. Granted, I drank a few beers last night to celebrate the new potential solution. Way too early to say, but I could get quite used to this!
FPATM, if you find immediate results within 24 hours of taking the Claritine then this is god stuff!
I was researching about antihistamines and they also suggest taking quercetin and cromolyn (Antihistamine). But if the good old clartine works then its party time!!! im getting some now as we speak, gonna try it as well.
I was researching about antihistamines and they also suggest taking quercetin and cromolyn (Antihistamine). But if the good old clartine works then its party time!!! im getting some now as we speak, gonna try it as well.
Yeah I'm going to start with just Claritin and see how it goes and then consider adding other antihistamines if it's only partially effective. Also- highly recommend the generic loratadine as it's considerably cheaper than Claritin. Another good thing is that if this is indeed a major part of the solution, there seems to be no known issue with taking it long term daily from what I've read online.
Dude. I'm feeling generous. Let me profoundly help you out here:
L-NAC Aceteyl Protocol , look it up
Vitamin C
Dr Bonners Perppermint soap
There are few commercial versions of topical VIT C or NAC, but I simply made my own by adding a huge about of each to Sheet butter body cream .
The C and NAC sting in some areas, but I actually think it stings in the infected areas of the skin as in oxidises these bastards to oblivion.
Areas of body:
Face
under chin
Neck
Biceps
Scalp ( ground zero )
I was taking The NAC protocol for a long while and made some gains. The topical version do in a day what oral does in 6 months . The only thing standing in my way now is the remote chance that this is binded to my DNA in some what which I do not think it is.
Long story short, I think its some level of mite / Morgellons or whatever; BUT as i say, I do not get a single PATM reaction for four weeks now.
Decontaminate your surroundings as quickly and as much as you can at the same time.
Get lots of the above orally and topical,will kill this fast. I've pretty mucb solved the PATM part of this issue . It is more complext than you realise but , start with the above .
L-NAC Aceteyl Protocol , look it up
Vitamin C
Dr Bonners Perppermint soap
There are few commercial versions of topical VIT C or NAC, but I simply made my own by adding a huge about of each to Sheet butter body cream .
The C and NAC sting in some areas, but I actually think it stings in the infected areas of the skin as in oxidises these bastards to oblivion.
Areas of body:
Face
under chin
Neck
Biceps
Scalp ( ground zero )
I was taking The NAC protocol for a long while and made some gains. The topical version do in a day what oral does in 6 months . The only thing standing in my way now is the remote chance that this is binded to my DNA in some what which I do not think it is.
Long story short, I think its some level of mite / Morgellons or whatever; BUT as i say, I do not get a single PATM reaction for four weeks now.
Decontaminate your surroundings as quickly and as much as you can at the same time.
Get lots of the above orally and topical,will kill this fast. I've pretty mucb solved the PATM part of this issue . It is more complext than you realise but , start with the above .
6 Comments
Wow. Everyone seems to be finding a cure and putting this PATM out of the window.
ImissJack, thanks for being so generous :) I always had a feeling that there's something on my face/scalp that's causing this. Applied all sorts of things but to no luck.
Just a few questions about NAC Protocol. Did you mean NAC from "Protocol for life" Or its a protocol based NAC treatment? Secondly, can you pelase share the topical cream names for the vitC/ NAC that you've used? There are tons of vitC brands out there. I'm guessing all of them would work but it would help if we try out soemthing that got you patm free :)
ImissJack, thanks for being so generous :) I always had a feeling that there's something on my face/scalp that's causing this. Applied all sorts of things but to no luck.
Just a few questions about NAC Protocol. Did you mean NAC from "Protocol for life" Or its a protocol based NAC treatment? Secondly, can you pelase share the topical cream names for the vitC/ NAC that you've used? There are tons of vitC brands out there. I'm guessing all of them would work but it would help if we try out soemthing that got you patm free :)
Yes, please share what products you're using. Thanks!!
loosely follow the L-NAC protcol here: /morgellonsshield.com
1.N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) 600 mg capsules – take ONE capsule in the morning
2.L-Carnosine 500 mg capsules – take ONE capsule 3 times per day
3.Vitamin C (without rose hips) 1000mg capsules – take TWO capsules 4 times per day
4.BCAAs (Branch Chain Amino Acids) 1000 mg capsules – take TWO capsules 4 times per day
5.Whey Protein Powder – 1 scoop of a quality brand whey protein 4 times per day
1.
All of these are Available on Amazon Prime . No particular brand has any more advantage . There some L-NAC with added Selenium which is very potent .
2.
I'm currently low on time and living with someone who has no idea I suffered this hell, so low bandwidth to mad scientist it out, but try and perfect your own home brew Vit C / NAC lotion . I'm currently sucking up a miinimal amount of C crystals visible on my skin from an inefficient mixing process.
Vasceline , Sheer butter and Coconutter lotion appear to be VERY potent carrier agents .
Go as potent as you can . Both make the skin sting in general, but stay with it . You will feel amazing the next day .
Use PURE , generic vitamin Crystals you can get from the pharmacy , it looks like salt. Dont waste time or money on capsules - C is far more versertile than those capsules allow.
For diet. Go as clean as possible. Clean out , but dont bug out. Just go to war with the products above , some tweaking and you got the rest ..
1.N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) 600 mg capsules – take ONE capsule in the morning
2.L-Carnosine 500 mg capsules – take ONE capsule 3 times per day
3.Vitamin C (without rose hips) 1000mg capsules – take TWO capsules 4 times per day
4.BCAAs (Branch Chain Amino Acids) 1000 mg capsules – take TWO capsules 4 times per day
5.Whey Protein Powder – 1 scoop of a quality brand whey protein 4 times per day
1.
All of these are Available on Amazon Prime . No particular brand has any more advantage . There some L-NAC with added Selenium which is very potent .
2.
I'm currently low on time and living with someone who has no idea I suffered this hell, so low bandwidth to mad scientist it out, but try and perfect your own home brew Vit C / NAC lotion . I'm currently sucking up a miinimal amount of C crystals visible on my skin from an inefficient mixing process.
Vasceline , Sheer butter and Coconutter lotion appear to be VERY potent carrier agents .
Go as potent as you can . Both make the skin sting in general, but stay with it . You will feel amazing the next day .
Use PURE , generic vitamin Crystals you can get from the pharmacy , it looks like salt. Dont waste time or money on capsules - C is far more versertile than those capsules allow.
For diet. Go as clean as possible. Clean out , but dont bug out. Just go to war with the products above , some tweaking and you got the rest ..
What you recommend is the diet or supplements of athletes-athletes? "NOW Foods" has all these products you cite and with exactly those data-measures. I already enter many doubts, previously appeared publications saying that a certain product is the solution but it was clear that it was not and such publication was a propaganda of the product. I distrust the whole, hehe. I hope that whoever reads it republique the benefit that has the products cited.
What you recommend is the diet or supplements of athletes-athletes? "NOW Foods" has all those products that citations and with exactly those data-measures, there are others but do not have those characteristics. I already have many doubts, previously appeared publications saying that a certain product is the solution-cure of the PATM but it was clear that it was not and such publication was a propaganda of the product. He's completely mistrustful, hehe. I hope that whoever tries and re-publishes the benefit of the products mentioned. Ty.
OCVQ: I simply do not have the time and resources to prove this to the Scietific standard. I have fought this for two years .
I have spent over $30,000. I have lost jobs, family and friends . I dont have much left, but I feel super wealthy now that I have beat this and continue to perfect a long term avoidance of it .
The closest I could get to scientific method was to simply experiment on myself over those two years .
I have to tell you .
As I said, shine a light source onto your body and you will see it swarmed with specs / mites .
Apply the products above and you will see a whole lot less . Nodody will couh and you will be rid of it . Simple. Or stay sick and complain .
That simple. There is a huge impulse to never again return to these forums to help once free of this thing because its so traumatic. I suggest people like you discourage a whole bunch of others from helping.
If you want a snotty little medical discussion, there are forums for that.
One major problem in all of this is the noise on the forums . With respect, the amazing thing about this injury is that it first attacks rational thaught and brain processing ability . Thus, many on here are confused .
I have spent over $30,000. I have lost jobs, family and friends . I dont have much left, but I feel super wealthy now that I have beat this and continue to perfect a long term avoidance of it .
The closest I could get to scientific method was to simply experiment on myself over those two years .
I have to tell you .
As I said, shine a light source onto your body and you will see it swarmed with specs / mites .
Apply the products above and you will see a whole lot less . Nodody will couh and you will be rid of it . Simple. Or stay sick and complain .
That simple. There is a huge impulse to never again return to these forums to help once free of this thing because its so traumatic. I suggest people like you discourage a whole bunch of others from helping.
If you want a snotty little medical discussion, there are forums for that.
One major problem in all of this is the noise on the forums . With respect, the amazing thing about this injury is that it first attacks rational thaught and brain processing ability . Thus, many on here are confused .
Ray2502, thanks for bringing this to light again. Hopefully we'll benefit somewhat out of this. I've been populating my gut with probiotics+kombucha for the past few weeks and its not helping. I guess its much more to just balancing gut flora.
Not sure, if the methylation would help but antihistamine is used for lowering histamine levels which causes sneezing/coughing. What doesnt make sense to me, is that we cause sneezing/coughing to others, while these meds are aimed at reducing those symptoms in our bodies. There's no harm in trying though.
Since it has diminished your PATM by 99%, im just so happy for you. I hope this really helps some of us who share symptoms with you. I've realized that each one of us is different in terms of PATM levels and what we give out.
Please keep us posted with the progress :)
Not sure, if the methylation would help but antihistamine is used for lowering histamine levels which causes sneezing/coughing. What doesnt make sense to me, is that we cause sneezing/coughing to others, while these meds are aimed at reducing those symptoms in our bodies. There's no harm in trying though.
Since it has diminished your PATM by 99%, im just so happy for you. I hope this really helps some of us who share symptoms with you. I've realized that each one of us is different in terms of PATM levels and what we give out.
Please keep us posted with the progress :)
1 Comments
Fermented foods are super high in histamine. If Ray is on to something, that means Kombucha would make PATM worse. I've stopped eating Kimchi for a couple of days to see.
Hello FPATM,
The doctor did mention that I showed much anxiety and stress. He said that this will make PATM worse so trying to avoid stress/anxiety will help us tremendously.
He did say that people have come into his office with the same type of symptoms as I described. Unfortunately, he needed me to follow up with him but I had to get back to work.
I will keep taking this medication and see how it affects my PATM in the long run. I think that mindspace has the right idea. I will have to read his post in detail and put it to use.
The doctor did mention that I showed much anxiety and stress. He said that this will make PATM worse so trying to avoid stress/anxiety will help us tremendously.
He did say that people have come into his office with the same type of symptoms as I described. Unfortunately, he needed me to follow up with him but I had to get back to work.
I will keep taking this medication and see how it affects my PATM in the long run. I think that mindspace has the right idea. I will have to read his post in detail and put it to use.
1 Comments
Also histamine is related to methylation which grateful2011 mentioned.And methylation is related to homocysteine which other person in this forum also mentioned.Also there is a connection between histamine and electromagnetic field.That is the puzzle.But I don't have medicine major to solve it.
Hi Ray.You know how the med works-when you take it it's áll good and when you stop it always come back.Talking about histamine intolerance it's important because we all have food intolerances-lactose,gluten etc.I was talking to you that lactobacillus bacteria makes me sleepy and it''s not good.I saw on youtube video a woman who had histamine intolerance.That woman said that she cured her histamine intolerance only with probiotics and superfoods and if you're on a low histamine diet it's the most effective.But low histamine diet doesn't cure her histamine intolerance.In previous post I said that I decrease massive PATM reactions with probiotic called Lactacare daily which is probiotic+prebiotic+zinc.It contains Lactobacillus acidophilus and 3 other strains bifidobacteria.Bifidobacteria are all good because they are in the colon and they are low in histamine.Lactobacillus acidophilus is histamine liberator which is not that good.So I google about low histamine probiotics and found the reason why so many probiotics doesn't work for our condition.Lactobacillus bulgaricus,Lactobacillus paracasei,S. thermophilus,Lactobacillus delbrueckii are high in histamine.We don't need this type of bacteria.Lactobacillus lactis,Lactobacillus acidophilus are histamine liberators but I also think we don't need this.Other lactobacillus are low in histamine.Sacharomyces boulardii also don't work for me.I ordered a probiotic called Kyodophilus 9 which have lactobacillus rhamnosus,gasseri and 4 other strains bifidobacteria which is good I think.The woman cured her histamine intolerance for about 2 years so we have to be patient.Maybe we also need about 1 or 2 years.So I know now why fruits like plums or bananas are not good for me-they are high in histamine.Kombucha and fermented foods are also high in histamine.Superfoods like spirulina,trifala are low in histamine.So we need more low histamine foods and low histamine probiotics.And we don't need probiotics in high doses-it's stress for body.Maximum 6 billion bacteria per day is ok.
1 Comments
https://healinghistamine.com/histamine-inflammation-links-electromagnetic-multiple-chemical-sensitivity/
Hello jn4357,
I was recently prescribed with some antihistamine medication and it has worked wonders for me.
I went to another country to visit a doctor that was recommended by a friend. This doctor has treated people with PATM and does believe that PATM exists.
He asked me and my wife if we suffered from allergies and of course I do not but my wife does.
He prescribed 10 mg of Loratadine and 10 mg of Montelukast a day for 6 months. I take it once a day and has diminished my PATM 99%. I know people do not like to take conventional medications but I have to keep trying since no natural supplements have helped me.
I don't know what the correlations are but maybe somebody that is a biology major or perhaps a chemist could explain.
If this holds up then this would tell me that we are releasing some type or types of histamines that are affecting other people but not us. The last few days I have been eating all sorts of junk food and have had maybe 1 or 2 people react.
This could be a huge clue as to what is causing PATM and would love to hear other members opinions concerning anti-histamines and Loratadine.
He did prescribe my wife with the same medication along with antibiotics. The antibiotics where for an infection/irritation of the upper respiratory system. The doctor said she had a really bad case of something similar to sinusitis. She is doing much better and her irritation is healing.
These last few days, I haven't had any problems with digestion or bloating even though I have eating all sorts of junk food. I'm just reporting and hopefully it can trigger somebodies mind.
I was recently prescribed with some antihistamine medication and it has worked wonders for me.
I went to another country to visit a doctor that was recommended by a friend. This doctor has treated people with PATM and does believe that PATM exists.
He asked me and my wife if we suffered from allergies and of course I do not but my wife does.
He prescribed 10 mg of Loratadine and 10 mg of Montelukast a day for 6 months. I take it once a day and has diminished my PATM 99%. I know people do not like to take conventional medications but I have to keep trying since no natural supplements have helped me.
I don't know what the correlations are but maybe somebody that is a biology major or perhaps a chemist could explain.
If this holds up then this would tell me that we are releasing some type or types of histamines that are affecting other people but not us. The last few days I have been eating all sorts of junk food and have had maybe 1 or 2 people react.
This could be a huge clue as to what is causing PATM and would love to hear other members opinions concerning anti-histamines and Loratadine.
He did prescribe my wife with the same medication along with antibiotics. The antibiotics where for an infection/irritation of the upper respiratory system. The doctor said she had a really bad case of something similar to sinusitis. She is doing much better and her irritation is healing.
These last few days, I haven't had any problems with digestion or bloating even though I have eating all sorts of junk food. I'm just reporting and hopefully it can trigger somebodies mind.
4 Comments
Ray-
This is great news! Like many here I'm sure, I login just about everyday to see if there's anything new to try. And like you, I've had minimal success with natural supplements. Diet and exercise seem best, but it's just so hard to maintain. I often times try to simplify it when I'm thinking about it, use an Occam's razor approach i.e. "Well if I'm causing allergic reactions, what's the simplest explanation for why". Leaky gut, Candida, etc. all sort of makes sense? But then I saw this post today, and after reading about histamine in the body I feel like there must be a connection here. Just a quick search for histamine led me to reading about its role in the stomach, something about ECL cells. And a rare condition called mastocytosis. Where basically the mast cells over produce histamine. So, like you, I don't have a lot of expertise in biology, and perhaps someone else here can chime in, but it seems like this could be a big part of our issues. Anyways, I'm thinking I'll start taking low dose of Loratadine (Claritin) to see if it helps! I noticed you said you were prescribed two- but the Claritin I believe it available OTC. Singulair I think was the other you mentioned and that may need a prescription. Perhaps it will be another promising lead to another dead end. But like most people here I'm willing to try anything reasonable, and taking an OTC allergy mediacation for a bit seems harmless enough. I'll try to post my results here.
This is great news! Like many here I'm sure, I login just about everyday to see if there's anything new to try. And like you, I've had minimal success with natural supplements. Diet and exercise seem best, but it's just so hard to maintain. I often times try to simplify it when I'm thinking about it, use an Occam's razor approach i.e. "Well if I'm causing allergic reactions, what's the simplest explanation for why". Leaky gut, Candida, etc. all sort of makes sense? But then I saw this post today, and after reading about histamine in the body I feel like there must be a connection here. Just a quick search for histamine led me to reading about its role in the stomach, something about ECL cells. And a rare condition called mastocytosis. Where basically the mast cells over produce histamine. So, like you, I don't have a lot of expertise in biology, and perhaps someone else here can chime in, but it seems like this could be a big part of our issues. Anyways, I'm thinking I'll start taking low dose of Loratadine (Claritin) to see if it helps! I noticed you said you were prescribed two- but the Claritin I believe it available OTC. Singulair I think was the other you mentioned and that may need a prescription. Perhaps it will be another promising lead to another dead end. But like most people here I'm willing to try anything reasonable, and taking an OTC allergy mediacation for a bit seems harmless enough. I'll try to post my results here.
Ray-
A couple follow up questions for you, if you don't mind. 1) Overall, how did the doctor respond to our condition and what were some of his thoughts. 2) How long taking the antihistamines before you noticed a reduction in reactions?
Thanks!
A couple follow up questions for you, if you don't mind. 1) Overall, how did the doctor respond to our condition and what were some of his thoughts. 2) How long taking the antihistamines before you noticed a reduction in reactions?
Thanks!
Hi. I was taking this "Hexaler cort" because the doctor prescribed me for my allergy, but I think it has low content of Desloratadine 5.0 mg and Betamethasone 0.6 mg, and caused me no effect other than to decrease the allergy but the PATM followed it same. It should be noted that the doctor only consume 10 tablets and one a day for 10 days. Is the same? or must it be stronger? Loratadine and Montelukast 10 mg how much time are you already consuming?
Ray, any update on your success with loratadine and Montekulast? is the latter worth it since its quite pricey. So could you please share your insight on this? thanks a ton
jn4357, this is a good post and your thinking is clear and logical, which is hard to come by among all the people on this forum claiming psychological causes or esotheric theories behind PATM - quite frustrating to be honest.
12 Comments
wow you signed in 3 years ago just to post this. i respect your opinion but i can give you logical reasons that our mind is involved. However, you will probably just disagree or you won't understand what i'm talking about. Over the last months i've done nothing else than reading hundreds of articles about psychotic stuff.
It's your inner focus, people are coughing very often! Any event has let our inner perception focus on these reactions and from than on it feels like people are coughing nonstop (they actually do it, you can even record it, it's just what you observe, but because other people aren't focussing on it, they will never see what you observe) i know it feels 100% realistic but i'm also observing it vanishing if i change my focus on calm/positive people. Which btw is much easear when eating healthy, a microbial balance will help, too. There are possible other reasons like pheromones (humans are relasing odorless compounds by sweating apocrinic)but because of the speed the reactions are occuring and people claiming it happening even through the telephone shows that there is more behind it or we all have different diseases. When it started i could never think of patm as a psychic thing because at first it sounds irrational, but then you realize most of your thoughts are just damagable. E.g. many years i was just swallowing bad emotions, when somebody treated me like ****, i just ignored it instead of becoming active and asking for help/ shuning these situations or talking to the person asking how to settle an arrangement. I didn't know that my mind will store these negative things up to a point where you even can become sick.
It's your inner focus, people are coughing very often! Any event has let our inner perception focus on these reactions and from than on it feels like people are coughing nonstop (they actually do it, you can even record it, it's just what you observe, but because other people aren't focussing on it, they will never see what you observe) i know it feels 100% realistic but i'm also observing it vanishing if i change my focus on calm/positive people. Which btw is much easear when eating healthy, a microbial balance will help, too. There are possible other reasons like pheromones (humans are relasing odorless compounds by sweating apocrinic)but because of the speed the reactions are occuring and people claiming it happening even through the telephone shows that there is more behind it or we all have different diseases. When it started i could never think of patm as a psychic thing because at first it sounds irrational, but then you realize most of your thoughts are just damagable. E.g. many years i was just swallowing bad emotions, when somebody treated me like ****, i just ignored it instead of becoming active and asking for help/ shuning these situations or talking to the person asking how to settle an arrangement. I didn't know that my mind will store these negative things up to a point where you even can become sick.
There is a high chance that we don't want to feel emotions like being afraid/nervous/tired due to our life experiences so we see it in other people, psycholgists would call this projection. It's not easy to explain in a sentence, but you can read articles about it and try to understand what i'm talking about
Rightly said, its transfer of feelings from patmer to non patmers. May be due to emotion overload we refuse to accept these negative feelings and allow others to receive it (neurons) electrochemical signal. Patm causes cancer as well
I am not sure that non PATMers receive the feelings of PATMers. According to my own experiences and what I read online, the PATM waves cause mostly physiological reactions. Also, it is wrong to claim that PATM causes any serious diseases apart from those "allergic" reactions. There is no scientific basis for that.
They aren't "receiving" these feelings, it's still just observable for us. This is the "irrational" part. If we record these reactions and are showing them other people, they will change their focus at this special moment so they are able to observe what we are observing.
Yes but reality Should be explored as we live in Modern world so everything should be logical and clear. Lots of patmer have doubts which should be researched and everyone should live without worry and well settled
Oh it's logical if you start to understand what i'm talking about and I agree that everything should be logical, not just in modern world but if we can't explain things with rational explanations we have to dig deeper in our universum. And from my observation patm starts to become logical at a very late state of the physical effects scala. You can record these reactions and show them other people, you will see how they start to call you crazy even if they can't deny these reactions, because normally they would never think about talking care of people coughing in videos.
In modern world many things are not logical and science don't have answer for that.We have to think on a high level.
The reason why I don't agree with any of you is I had people coughing around me when I didn't even know I had PATM or thought anything was wrong with me. People I work close will cough and have "allergic" symptoms, you won't believe how many will say "I don't know if I'm getting the flu or have allergies" and point out a tickling feeling in their throat. Some report they don't even have a history allergies! So yeah, I know there is something and it's just really damn hard to figure out... just like it was hard for people suffering from celiac disease 10-15 years ago...no doc would take them seriously...until someone eventually made a breakthrough....read about it on actress Jennifer Esposito's website... who was prescribed anti-depressants and what not. Plus when I realized something weird was happening to me/other people I was actually at my happiest. Trust me I looked at the psychological aspect of it. Maybe for some of you it is a psych issues as you may not actually have PATM and instead require some meds to get better or "feel" normal again.
Thoughts speak louder than actions
purify ur thoughts to improve patm
I heard people coughing before i had patm as well. For two months i was just asking myself why are all people suddenly coughing? (I didn't thought about me as a trigger) it's because my inner focus has changed(without knowing it) probably due to a stressful event or a strong intestinal imbalance which is similar stressful for us. These coughs are real but people normally never take care about these reactions so they don't happen in their perception. There is a little Chance that we had a body problem when it began, the Problem is, if just one of these coughs are not caused by a body Problem, it means that all of these coughs can be triggered by a non-body problem. And this is what i'm observing, as soon as eating healthy and change my focus to positive and calm people, i'm observing the opposite reactions like many people with patm are telling us who have cured it.
tkhankhoje is right. In the end, the reactions are not caused by a gas you can observe how fast the reactions occur even over long distances. However i sometimes think it's not impossible that many of us have physical problems like uncommon parasites or microbes that keeps us away from gaining a common intestinal bacateria balance. This would explain why many of us have problems similar to tmau. Sometimes i'm wondering if there are patmers which never thought about having bad odor before it started. Maybe it's possible that most of us actually bad bad odor once(due to other reasons) and then at a later point some event made us feel "smelly" which induced this thing.
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I meant had* bad
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