Aa
What we know so far and where to from now.
It’s clear now that PATM is either caused by only two possibilities.
1. a gut microbiota imbalance
2. or a faulty liver enzyme
A combination of both can also exist. The actual toxins that is causing the allergies on other people is a different story.
Btw, TMAU only refers to odors caused by the TMA smelly compound so if you’ve tested negative for the present of TMA then you either have PATM or some other odor condition other than TMAU.
What we know now is that different gut microbiota combination can lead to many and different chemical pathways that ultimately produce different compounds. One or more of those compounds (toxic to other people’s immunity) is causing an increase in gut permeability and suppressing our immunity which allows other gut incomplete digested substances and toxins to easily flood the blood stream without any immunity response.
What do we do about it? We have to try our best to balance our gut microbiota and maintain it by eating the right food. Food determines what gut bacteria we feed to thrive. They change according to the food we eat. But before that ever happens, we have to erase everything in the gut before we pour in new fresh good bacteria. When MeBO result came out pointing out leaky gut, I ordered a probiotic that only has 3 strains which best increases immunity and lowers gut permeability. Unfortunately, the probiotics I order is not in good quality because it needed continuous refrigeration. I learned on YouTube of someone who use the same 3 strains but from a different company, biogrow probiotics, with amazing results. He claims PATM disappear after that for years but occasionally shows. So it would seem that there’s proof that gut imbalance is the sole problem. We need strains with max effect on gut permeability. I still believe FMT if done properly, is the ultimate cure for this problem. When FMT is done, doctors have sufferer do a minimal of 4 days of antibiotics course to wipe everything out of the gut then after 24 hours of stoppage perform FMT, after that patient is fed on a special diet to feed those good bacteria for a while.
If there’s anything you do, aim at decreasing gut permeability and improving microbiota balance. Someone suggested he good results from drinking cabbage juice only for two weeks and gotten good results. I believe the result would be even better if taken together with biogrow probiotics which contained only the 3 stabilized strains. Combining good methods like this will help.
1. a gut microbiota imbalance
2. or a faulty liver enzyme
A combination of both can also exist. The actual toxins that is causing the allergies on other people is a different story.
Btw, TMAU only refers to odors caused by the TMA smelly compound so if you’ve tested negative for the present of TMA then you either have PATM or some other odor condition other than TMAU.
What we know now is that different gut microbiota combination can lead to many and different chemical pathways that ultimately produce different compounds. One or more of those compounds (toxic to other people’s immunity) is causing an increase in gut permeability and suppressing our immunity which allows other gut incomplete digested substances and toxins to easily flood the blood stream without any immunity response.
What do we do about it? We have to try our best to balance our gut microbiota and maintain it by eating the right food. Food determines what gut bacteria we feed to thrive. They change according to the food we eat. But before that ever happens, we have to erase everything in the gut before we pour in new fresh good bacteria. When MeBO result came out pointing out leaky gut, I ordered a probiotic that only has 3 strains which best increases immunity and lowers gut permeability. Unfortunately, the probiotics I order is not in good quality because it needed continuous refrigeration. I learned on YouTube of someone who use the same 3 strains but from a different company, biogrow probiotics, with amazing results. He claims PATM disappear after that for years but occasionally shows. So it would seem that there’s proof that gut imbalance is the sole problem. We need strains with max effect on gut permeability. I still believe FMT if done properly, is the ultimate cure for this problem. When FMT is done, doctors have sufferer do a minimal of 4 days of antibiotics course to wipe everything out of the gut then after 24 hours of stoppage perform FMT, after that patient is fed on a special diet to feed those good bacteria for a while.
If there’s anything you do, aim at decreasing gut permeability and improving microbiota balance. Someone suggested he good results from drinking cabbage juice only for two weeks and gotten good results. I believe the result would be even better if taken together with biogrow probiotics which contained only the 3 stabilized strains. Combining good methods like this will help.
Doctors have used FMT to cure incurable diseases such IBD i.e. Crohn’s disease and UC, IBS and TMAU2. Very often some patient will show a return of the disease after months or years. What I believe really happened is the patient changed his diet big time. He must have gone back to eating junk foods that feed all the bad strains which were supposedly controlled by the good bacteria, so the problem returned as bad strains increase in numbers and good bacteria died out. As @grateful2011 said it many times, it’s an ongoing process. If we ever get that perfect gut microbiota balance and return those good strains to control those pathogenic strains, we’ll have to keep feeding the good bacteria all the time or they’ll die out.
The guy on YouTube who was supposedly cured said he’d often get the symptoms when he skipped meals. This might mean he was eating healthy and when he skipped meals good bacteria were starved and diminished in numbers while bad ones thrive a little. It’s also possible when he skipped healthy meals, probably at school, he was taking more junk snacks.
The guy on YouTube who was supposedly cured said he’d often get the symptoms when he skipped meals. This might mean he was eating healthy and when he skipped meals good bacteria were starved and diminished in numbers while bad ones thrive a little. It’s also possible when he skipped healthy meals, probably at school, he was taking more junk snacks.
2 Comments
I think if a person starts to show signs for the first time of PATM, if he’s on the right protocol, he can probably control it and get back to normal. Unfortunately, many sufferers have tried all kind of antibiotics, drugs, supplements for years before they get to this forum. Their gut bacteria have gotten tough and resistant to almost anything. They end up just like us.
Just a correction, the person claiming to be cured in YouTube is just an OCD patient who’s lost. Never mind.
What are the 3 strains that work for gut permeability? I know you mentioned this somewhere else but I can't find it.
11 Comments
Lactobacillus acidophilus
Lactobacillus rhamnosus
Bifidobacterium longum
Lactobacillus rhamnosus
Bifidobacterium longum
Hi dontgiveuphope.Actually for me works all bifidobacteria and all lactobacillus except lactobacillus bulgaricus and paracasei.The probiotic which works for me is actually probiotic +prebiotic +zinc.It contains more bifidobacteria.But is the most effective when I'm on candida diet or 90% candida diet.But I eat meat-chicken,beef,fish,shrimp.Last 3 months I had great improvements due to this probiotic and diet.Also when I was on holiday to the sea-I felt great due to seawater and sea air.After the sea I had runny nose and sore throat which I think is a good signs-I had a lot of mucus from throat or the lungs.
@mindspace Do you cut out grains and rice and all fruits in your diet? Would you mind messaging me the name of the product you've been using?
Hi Smellyorus.Probiotic name is Lactacare Daily-it's best synbiotic for me.The worst foods for me are definitely sugar and also all diary-maybe due to lactose intolerance.Also I don't eat potatoes and white rice but it's interesting that I don't have problems with white flour.But i rarely eat white bread and I don't eat pasta or spaghetti.I eat whole wheat bread and brown rice.I eat season fruits-watermelon,melon,peach,apricot and all berries but I don't eat banana,pear or plum -I have gas from them.Also I don't eat beans or cabbage-also due to gas.
@mindspace. It’s good that you brought that up because I’ve probably tried all of the probiotics out there on the market. There’s only about less than 100 strains known I think. The different probiotic is just from these common ones.
MeBO researchers have found that leakygut is at the center of our problem. It could be one of the problems, cause or consequence, and the research is still continuing.
I’ve read several papers that showed different strains don’t always help leakygut, some don’t do anything and some make it worse, but some really closes up tight junctions and increases the efficiency and amount of epithelial cells in vitro experiments.
The strains that really help, are actually helping leakygut and increasing immunity. So whenever leakygut is decreased, immunity increases. They go hand in hand. If you look at the strains marketed as helping the immunity, it’s always the strains that has the most teer in verified experiment.
Take for instance the graph below of comparing the 6 known strains to control(no strain). It was found that lysates from Lactobacillus rhamnosus, Bifidobacterium longum were better at addressing leakygut than of the others. Notice how BL+ strain is actually increasing leakygut, despite helping in other areas.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew_McBain/
publication/239074013/figure/fig4/AS:298717304377351@1448231163129/
FIG-4-Lysates-of-probiotic-bacteria-modulate-tight-junction-protein-expres.png
There are experiments where known strains are tested against each other which increases TEER (decrease leakygut). From such result you should pick your probiotics. Also know that experiments have shown that most probiotics in the market are either hoax or just pills with dead probiotics. That’s because it’s really hard to keep probiotics alive once taken from the gut into a dry artificial environment. There are ways to slow it but they die in numbers very quickly. The best way is to get them straight from the factory in ice packs but if not get the stabilized version but chances are, half or all are dead by the time you get it. Whatever happens, just put it in your freezer as soon as you get them.
So if you can find the strains with most teer values, those are the strains needed. The 3 strains mentioned weren’t picked by me. Experts chose it, however the papers I’ve provided shows clearly why they chose them.
I’m hoping that in the future, more and better strains for decreasing leakygut is found. And also, bad strains identified so we can keep away from them.
MeBO researchers have found that leakygut is at the center of our problem. It could be one of the problems, cause or consequence, and the research is still continuing.
I’ve read several papers that showed different strains don’t always help leakygut, some don’t do anything and some make it worse, but some really closes up tight junctions and increases the efficiency and amount of epithelial cells in vitro experiments.
The strains that really help, are actually helping leakygut and increasing immunity. So whenever leakygut is decreased, immunity increases. They go hand in hand. If you look at the strains marketed as helping the immunity, it’s always the strains that has the most teer in verified experiment.
Take for instance the graph below of comparing the 6 known strains to control(no strain). It was found that lysates from Lactobacillus rhamnosus, Bifidobacterium longum were better at addressing leakygut than of the others. Notice how BL+ strain is actually increasing leakygut, despite helping in other areas.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Andrew_McBain/
publication/239074013/figure/fig4/AS:298717304377351@1448231163129/
FIG-4-Lysates-of-probiotic-bacteria-modulate-tight-junction-protein-expres.png
There are experiments where known strains are tested against each other which increases TEER (decrease leakygut). From such result you should pick your probiotics. Also know that experiments have shown that most probiotics in the market are either hoax or just pills with dead probiotics. That’s because it’s really hard to keep probiotics alive once taken from the gut into a dry artificial environment. There are ways to slow it but they die in numbers very quickly. The best way is to get them straight from the factory in ice packs but if not get the stabilized version but chances are, half or all are dead by the time you get it. Whatever happens, just put it in your freezer as soon as you get them.
So if you can find the strains with most teer values, those are the strains needed. The 3 strains mentioned weren’t picked by me. Experts chose it, however the papers I’ve provided shows clearly why they chose them.
I’m hoping that in the future, more and better strains for decreasing leakygut is found. And also, bad strains identified so we can keep away from them.
I’m not sure but I think lysates from Lactobacillus fermentum were found to be actually worsening Leakygut. I think the picture I gave you, which I googled really fast, is from the same paper. You’ll have to look it up which one was it coz I’m too lazy. It’s a long paper. Just look at the graph though and look up which strain it was. I don’t remember if there was one, two or three stains that actually worsen leakygut.
Actually this synbiotic contains only lactobacillus acidophilus(2,4 billion) and 3 bifido strains(3,6 billion) but it contains also prebiotic +zinc.It's interesting what you say because hopeful1234 said that he cured PATM but he didn't cure leaky gut.
By the way, RESTORE does the same thing regarding tight junctions.
Hey @mindspace. Thanks for the reply.
“..Actually this synbiotic contains only ..”
I’m not sure what you mean by synbiotic.
“hopeful1234 said that he cured PATM but he didn't cure leaky gut.”
I think he said he cured PATM but not TMAU, not sure though. Actually there’s no way to know if one cured leakygut or not unless you actually go to a hospital where tests are done. This requires you to take compounds of different mass and they measure the concentration in urine sample. And you can’t just do these tests unless doctor is looking for something related. For instance, if you have very bad constipation and there’s no remedy, he might demand gut permeability test which could take days to a few weeks for the results to return from the lab.
Also, MeBO has found that we have leakygut…meaning there’s an association but we don’t know how it’s associated for certainty… what it is exactly. We’ll have to wait for results.
Here’s another thing. I think sufferers here think gut permeability (leaky gut) is something similar to ulcer or a wound in the gut. NO! It’s not. I’m not aware of anyone feeling a leakygut. It’s usually the diseases associated with it that we feel. For instance, people with peanut allergies are thought of to have leakygut were peanuts proteins seep through the holes between cells. This doesn’t mean the cells are damaged. It’s the tight-junction proteins that holds cells together that is bad. The peanut protein going into the blood vessels ends up triggering immunity cells to attack itself and an cells that resembles such proteins. So we aren’t affected directly by the leakygut in most cases.
“..Actually this synbiotic contains only ..”
I’m not sure what you mean by synbiotic.
“hopeful1234 said that he cured PATM but he didn't cure leaky gut.”
I think he said he cured PATM but not TMAU, not sure though. Actually there’s no way to know if one cured leakygut or not unless you actually go to a hospital where tests are done. This requires you to take compounds of different mass and they measure the concentration in urine sample. And you can’t just do these tests unless doctor is looking for something related. For instance, if you have very bad constipation and there’s no remedy, he might demand gut permeability test which could take days to a few weeks for the results to return from the lab.
Also, MeBO has found that we have leakygut…meaning there’s an association but we don’t know how it’s associated for certainty… what it is exactly. We’ll have to wait for results.
Here’s another thing. I think sufferers here think gut permeability (leaky gut) is something similar to ulcer or a wound in the gut. NO! It’s not. I’m not aware of anyone feeling a leakygut. It’s usually the diseases associated with it that we feel. For instance, people with peanut allergies are thought of to have leakygut were peanuts proteins seep through the holes between cells. This doesn’t mean the cells are damaged. It’s the tight-junction proteins that holds cells together that is bad. The peanut protein going into the blood vessels ends up triggering immunity cells to attack itself and an cells that resembles such proteins. So we aren’t affected directly by the leakygut in most cases.
Synbiotic=probiotic+prebiotic.Prebiotic is inulin for example and fructooligozaccharides.Synbiotic is more effective than probiotic because it allows about 80-90% of bacteria to reach the intestines and does not require refrigeration.
Thanks @mindspace. I swear I didn’t remember that word until you reminded me so thank you. The only things I can still remember are the definitions. I'm getting a little rusty…hahaha.
But you're right, prebiotic feeds probiotics. It’s their food with a strange name. I remember my professor trying to make some of us confident on first semester by telling us that most of biology and chemistry is just strange words for something very easy. We felt happy and comfortable but realized later on, that he was just pulling our legs. Different probiotics favor different food (prebiotic) as I mentioned on my previous post. I remember now, fiber was used as an example during labs to explain this since it’s a common prebiotic.
Years ago I remember looking at my notes for the first time of a fiber molecular structure and saying to my tutor, “this looks just like a string of glucose compounds strung together and woven into a band or fiber” and she said to me “because it is!” It’s the same reason why it’s hard for us to digest it and therefore gets pushed very quickly through the gut, but bacteria, since it has evolved for millions of years, must be able to digest any form of carbs because they don’t have the choice of choosing what food we eat. That was the first day I learnt about dietary fiber, molecular structures of carbohydrates, symbiotic and a bunch of other terminology I can’t remember. Like many of us here, I learnt about probiotics, prebiotics early in high school.
One of the strangest things I learnt earlier in chemistry and biology is that many of the organic molecular structures are just modifications of existing compounds that we already know from elementary science in high school. For instance, I remember learning for the first time that ATP/ADP and nucleotides were just a fructose (monosaccharide) backbone molecule with a bunch of attached phosphates and nitrogenous bases, with that slight modification alone altered its complete molecular function. So enzymes can easily cut DNA up, and fructose, a monosaccharide (sugar), derived from it and bunch of phosphates can be derived from it. The first time I learned it, it almost felt like, that in molecular biology, it’s like taking your cereal, hotdog and potatoes to make a car or clothes…lol. Was very strange back then.
Carbohydrates is probably the easiest food ingredient in biology to understand because of the repetitions. The only difference between glucose and fructose monosaccharide sugars is the number of carbon ring atoms. Sucrose (table sugar) is just a combination of one glucose and one fructose. Fructooligosaccharide or we often call oligofructose is just a string of fructose with terminating glucose at each ends. What’s amazing about these simple sugars is that, our bodies can use them easily but once they are strung together into longer strings, we don’t have the enzymes to digest them properly anymore so pass pretty easily throughout our gut. What’s amazing is that many more compounds with slight alteration go through our body undigested very easily.
But you're right, prebiotic feeds probiotics. It’s their food with a strange name. I remember my professor trying to make some of us confident on first semester by telling us that most of biology and chemistry is just strange words for something very easy. We felt happy and comfortable but realized later on, that he was just pulling our legs. Different probiotics favor different food (prebiotic) as I mentioned on my previous post. I remember now, fiber was used as an example during labs to explain this since it’s a common prebiotic.
Years ago I remember looking at my notes for the first time of a fiber molecular structure and saying to my tutor, “this looks just like a string of glucose compounds strung together and woven into a band or fiber” and she said to me “because it is!” It’s the same reason why it’s hard for us to digest it and therefore gets pushed very quickly through the gut, but bacteria, since it has evolved for millions of years, must be able to digest any form of carbs because they don’t have the choice of choosing what food we eat. That was the first day I learnt about dietary fiber, molecular structures of carbohydrates, symbiotic and a bunch of other terminology I can’t remember. Like many of us here, I learnt about probiotics, prebiotics early in high school.
One of the strangest things I learnt earlier in chemistry and biology is that many of the organic molecular structures are just modifications of existing compounds that we already know from elementary science in high school. For instance, I remember learning for the first time that ATP/ADP and nucleotides were just a fructose (monosaccharide) backbone molecule with a bunch of attached phosphates and nitrogenous bases, with that slight modification alone altered its complete molecular function. So enzymes can easily cut DNA up, and fructose, a monosaccharide (sugar), derived from it and bunch of phosphates can be derived from it. The first time I learned it, it almost felt like, that in molecular biology, it’s like taking your cereal, hotdog and potatoes to make a car or clothes…lol. Was very strange back then.
Carbohydrates is probably the easiest food ingredient in biology to understand because of the repetitions. The only difference between glucose and fructose monosaccharide sugars is the number of carbon ring atoms. Sucrose (table sugar) is just a combination of one glucose and one fructose. Fructooligosaccharide or we often call oligofructose is just a string of fructose with terminating glucose at each ends. What’s amazing about these simple sugars is that, our bodies can use them easily but once they are strung together into longer strings, we don’t have the enzymes to digest them properly anymore so pass pretty easily throughout our gut. What’s amazing is that many more compounds with slight alteration go through our body undigested very easily.
Hi after reading what you said I searched up the first possibility and seen that I have symptoms similar to that as well, not just PATM although I believe I have that too, I am going to see how going into a diet and the cabbage juice sounds like a good idea. Im still in school and IVe never gone to a doctor about this so Im hoping that is all I need to do to get good results. Thank you for the information in your post. -a sufferer of PATM
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