People Allergic to Me (PATM) Community
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Avatar universal

what if this patm

what if patm is to much serotonin? not emergancy high but to high, maybe in brain, maybe in blood or elsewhere
symtoms fits me pretty well
anyone know stuff about this?
5 Responses
Avatar universal
Actually we already know what the PATM gas is and where it’s generated. That question has been answered. It’s just toxins. 90% of toxins in your body comes from gut fermentation of microbial (bacteria/fungi/viruses…) and enzymatic activity. The left over percentage comes from normal cell metabolism. There’s always a small amount of toxins in every metabolic process. The liver is the main cleaning organ of all toxins and in most cases it can handle it. Blood vessels from the gut run straight to the liver for this clean up process.
How we got this load accumulated in our blood stream without being cleaned is unknown. It’s either the liver doesn’t have the right enzymes to clean up these particular toxins or it’s just overloaded. So problem would likely be an overgrowth of certain pathogenic strains in the gut OR liver is screwed. Those two are mostly likely possibilities.
Apart from the liver, the body can remove it through sweat, breathe, urine. This is why some observe exercising, sauna and Epson hot bath helps.
When these toxins get airborne it can activate other people’s innate immunity (lining of sinus, lungs, throat) and cause inflammation when breathed in. As we’ve all observed they appear to be highly potent as other people can react from far away on very very low concentration of these airborne compounds. Collecting sweat samples is actually high in patm toxins and if you were a smart chemist you can actually run simple to advance chemical tests on these against sweat samples from another normal dude. For example, you determine if it’s highly acidic or base. If it’s the case an acidic or basic soap can help the elimination process. Simple things like that.
Many suggested that GCMS as a possible way of analyzing these toxins on sweat or breath sample. It won’t work straight forward as we expect because toxins can come from multiple microbial species and normal enzymatic activity in the gut, added to it are normal toxins from internal body cellular activity. I’m not saying it’s impossible to analyze but it would be very difficult as chromatogram would show up as a big mess of compounds. It would require a skilled chemist who knows exactly what to look for.
This is why PATM seems to stop or disappear when very strong antibiotic is taken. It’s the same for PATM and TMAU. Once most of the gut microbes is removed or suppressed, 90% of the toxins is absent from the gut. The only small toxins come from normal body enzyme in the gut and cellular internal process and the liver can easily handle that. If you remember many people trying out Metronidazole experienced this temporally relief. The problem is that microbes will eventually accumulate in the gut once antibiotic stops or it will resist in any case. We also need the good microbes for breaking down food for minerals and vitamins so can’t survive for long without gut microbes. Some microbes produce beneficial compounds including those that seal up leaky gut.
And with the recent findings of the MeBO clinical research, it adds more credit to what I've just described.
We don’t know patm is a gas.   Maybe tmau. But not true patm.   I looked at the  Mebo study and felt they just played it safe or by the rules.  Pull some of these extreme  patmers out of  these pages and make a real run at it.  Spend a little more and find the government made pathogens in our bodys hiding out.   I’m not saying that’s it.  But it’s hard to read the old we’re not detoxing right.  That’s understood.  I’d bet a good chunk of the people on the planet bodies aren’t methylating properly now.  that’s only one part to this many part puzzle.  I’m sure there is a few others besides myself that can almost send this “thing” out by looking at someone.   So trust me there is more to it.   Someone is going to figure this out for the people.  
Avatar universal
Thanks for your answer!

How do we really know its just toxins? and even then yeah as you said why? why cant we clean this bacteria and or toxins up? whats casuing this distress/inability?
The through walls etc things makes me not think its just toxins but maybe, but yeah i also think there is something wrong about bacteria atleast but also some kind of tension problem.

you say 90% of toxins in your body comes from gut fermentation of microbial and you are probably right

90% of the serotonin in the body is also made by microbial in the gut, so the antibiotica killing those would affect that too, the more you irritate the gut lining the more seratonin is produced, but i dont think this has to do anything with seratonin in the brain but i dont know this stuff well enough.

high carb/bread diet= higher seratonin too and also coffe i think highers it temporary and lowers it over time, and nthere is some other stuff related worsening my reactions and its a neurotransmitter afterall wich problaby could affect aloot of stuff mentally

just some thoughts, i hate this, i think to much
What is a toxin? Let’s define what is a toxin. A toxin is any poisonous substance that is produced during the metabolism of living things, for instance, peroxides are toxins for example and the liver is good at cleaning that.

We know that PATM is caused by toxins by cross-referencing all the data. What gas would irritate the lining of their lungs, sinus, throat and cause coughing, sneezing, internal inflammation and flu-like symptoms? So we know at least it’s toxic. Now that we’ve concluded that 100% accuracy let’s look at where it comes from.

We’ve learnt that certain antibiotics can temporary stop or diminish PATM symptoms. We also know probiotics help a lot. I’m not sure if you’ve tried toxic medications like albendazole but if you do, you’ll find PATM is even worse. The important piece of data is that substances that help clean toxicity and repair cells work like a charm. For instance, amino acids in Rice protein and desiccated liver. Desiccate liver contains detoxifying enzymes too. We also know that sweating through exercise and sauna really really helps. Try going to movie without sauna and next week try with sauna and see the difference. The only thing that sauna does is empty out sweat glands. The body releases toxins via sweat glands. So now we know that some microbes are the producers of these toxic substances. Since the source are microbes, it is then called a toxin(s).

What are the specific toxins? We don’t know. That’s where the research should be heading.

Is PATM caused serotonin? There are millions of compounds floating in your body, why serotonin? We can make a prediction to some level by observing what a high serotonin blood level should be. Dilated pupils, Headache, Confusion, Nausea & vomiting, Diarrhea, Rapid heart rate, but none of these are observed in any us. Have you heard of Serotonin being extremely toxic when airborne? No. Why didn’t that substrate stick out as a red flag in MeBO’s initial blood and urine test? I’ve heard of many poisonous gas but not serotonin. Brown Rice Protein and Desiccated liver has high levels of amino acids. Since serotonin is made from them, shouldn’t taking the above amino-acids worsen PATM? Instead we see the opposite effect. So serotonin is not likely the cause of PATM.

PATM doesn’t go through walls or glass…that’s crazy talk. I know that some posts have mentioned this but no such compound exist. That’s impossible except in the realm of science-fiction.

Bread, like all the other grass food products has gluten. Gluten destroys gut lining. Think of “RESTORE” product as the opposite of gluten… the experiment done by the company was on gluten vs restore. Look it up.

Many have reported coffee as worsening PATM. I observe this too but I’m not sure why. My guess is it has preservatives that is harming the gut lining. I really don’t know to be honest.

Just my option but it’s not crazy talk.  Your patm may not be as serious as mine and others.   Mine clearly goes through closed glass windows while riding in cars to people outside and other cars.  This I have proven to those around me.  Possibly an emitting emf carrying the toxins. Or possibly the neurotransmitters somehow sending signals.   I have a few other thoughts also.  
Your answer was well written and I don’t doubt anything you say at all.  Just knowing how mine acts, There must be some other component besides the toxins (my patm travels upwind also)  It’s happening a lot of places. Maybe the air or the food.  I’ve seen a lot of things in my life.  Our condition is not normal (yet).  Sonebody is up to something

Thank you again for your information. I appreciate it. Medhelp patm has some valuable pieces
I know about the wind thing. I was at the beach with a good 25 mph wind and someone behind me with both our backs to the wind and he will have a sneezingfit. WEIRD!
Avatar universal
I hear you but then i cant stop thinking of why we have these microbes creating those toxins, why are we not getting rid of them while almost all people are, why where we vurnable, ive lived with different people they dont develop the same, there has to be something wrong pre and post microbes, ive getting rid of this 2 times and what i dont get is that then i was in a _total_ different mental status, maybe due to not being affected by toxins, but why did i develop it again slowly over time i need to know
personally i still think it some kind of psychological presence tho maybe due to these toxins
It appears to me you have no background in biology. Don’t worry I was ignorant in the past too. I sometimes take for granted that people here know the basics already. I’ll explain.

Let’s start with what we know. We know that PATM is a buildup of microbial toxins in the blood. That’s not disputed now. We also know from the MeBO research that our gut is permeable so it falls in well with our findings. The permeability allows for toxins to get through easily to the bloodstream.

But we don’t know whether it’s the permeability that allowed the toxins or the toxins is wearing out the gut lining and allowing itself into the blood stream. We aren’t quite sure if there’s some genetic susceptibility in this equation. However, we can build a model or predict based on similar diseases.

To understand how the gut ecosystem behave you need to see a real model in the outside world.
Let’s take an ecosystem of reserve parks in Africa. If you remove the lions, hyenas and leopards from some of the reserves in Africa, the balance ecosystem will likely fall apart. These are the things that could happen. Herbivores like buffalos, deer, antelopes will grow exponential in numbers. The diseased and weak ones will survive risking the community. They’ll overgraze everything…the whole land. Smaller animals that depend on grass and shrubs will likely go extinct. Any animals that depend on them will go extinct too. When grass is finished they’ll move on to crops and compete with livestock for grassland affecting human agricultural productions. They’ll destroy the land like a swarm of locust. In Australia this is what happened when rabbits were introduced and but no predator to control them. They swept across the land like locust and their government had to come up with introduced diseases to control them or risk extinction of different species and agricultural production which we depend on. In the past Vietnam farmers wiped out snakes and as a result rats grew in numbers and started destroying commercial rice production throughout the country almost crippling the food their food industry. They had to reintroduce snake population throughout the country. The point is this, all species are working in harmony and balanced with each other. Once you remove a particular species, those that depends on it for control escalate or diminish in numbers.

In the gut, there’s hundreds of strains. We don’t know the exact ratio of a balance gut. But we know here are bad microbial strains that don’t harm us only because they are controlled and maintained in small numbers by other good bacteria. C.Diff infection kills people all over the world. Many people have this bacterial strain in their gut but it’s kept in check by other good strains. They aren’t since but once you remove the control strains [we don’t know them exactly] with antibiotics, C.diff will then explode in numbers. It’s interesting because C.diff destroys the gut lining like hell, far worse than ours. If scientists were to measure it, it will be several times permeable than ours. So as you can see many of the bad strains, whether they’re in your gut or introduced, doesn’t affect us until all the control strains are dead. That’s why they fix it by bringing all the typical strains back in proper numbers from a healthy fecal donor.

Some microbes are just bad news and other good microbes have no control over them. Those ones will multiply in your gut once you get it. That’s the one you are talking about. Fortunately for us, not all microbes are superstrong like that.

Many patmers have reported having their symptoms disappear and come back afterwards. I know because it has happened to me very often. I observe the rigid diet and it disappears only to come back later when I’m eating like a pig, but no one has mental control over it.

If you claim to have mental power over PATM then you are against what everyone is experiencing and the research result from MeBO. Perhaps you have a different condition that you aren’t aware of yet.
your right i have no backround in biology, but im not ignorant and i kinda understand the big picture of the gut ecosystem, even better now. I dident mean mental control over it not at all, more like the opposite. Did you get very sick when your patm dissapeared too?

I got crazy ill, lost 60 pounds during 2 months or so and over 100f fever,  my bed was a swimmingpool from sweathing, couldent eat and at last not even drink so had to be at hospital with doctors looking like questionmarks couple weeks, but i still felt kinda good becaues it was like a plaegue left the body, a very wierd relief and patm dissapeared totally.

So myself wonder why was i strong enough at that point to "fight it off" or what is damaging that gut lining that i perhaps avoided better (im always on some kind of supplement and diet and often more then one wich makes it harder)and thats why i try to find out, and my mental state was sooo different after and it felt so good.

That time they found out the fever was atleast from inflammation in the instesinal wall and inflammation=healing
So i was thinking if some big overload of serotonin could damage the intestines somehow

ive had many theories,
but to clear out what i think about the mental thing i mean i think its something physical wrong causing some wierd mental state with tension/fear/whatnot presence thats casuing reactions

btw i know it can cause oversensivite nervous system, theres many thing that fits me thats why i was interested in it

I hear you. I’ve never had the symptoms that you’ve just described…it’s very unusual but interesting. Do you have the symptoms that other PATMers experience here? If you do, then it is possible you have PATM and something else all at once.

Remember most AIDS patients die from TB or some other accompanying disease so it’s not uncommon for multiple infections to occur. Once their immunity declines, other diseases start attacking. There are AIDS patient whom have had the Mycobacterium tuberculosis in them but wasn’t attacking them until their immunity was cut down by the HIV-virus as it attacks and eliminates T-cells. I’ve never heard anyone here losing weight or affected nervous system so your condition sound very very serious. Losing weights is associated with diseases such as TB.

Here’s the interesting part, MeBO has shown that we have a leaky gut. I’m not sure if people know what it infers but it means our immunity is compromised. The gut is responsible for 70% of our immunity. Once that barrier is leaky or broken our immunity crumbles. What is the chance that you’re having a secondary or more infections from other things because a leaky gut has comprised your immunity? I’m not sure but it’s high possibility. Have you seen a doctor about it?
yeah i do have the patm reactions, and almost only that, maybe some sinus problem usually and sensitivities but nothing else. Except for those 2 times i got extreme ill and got the inflammation and patm dissapered 100%. yeah ive seen doctors and have been investigated for alot of stuff due to this inflammation state they have seen and how ill i was then, but i never talked to any doctor about patm, i just cant i know how it sounds. They never found out the cause really but i dont think thats so unusual, anyway to get rid of the inflammation they put me on some immunosuppressive biologics and over time the inflammation faded but patm slowly came back, not welcomed at all, so i tried a few other immunosupressive medications but without telling them about patm, also antibiotics but nothing helped the patm thing(antibiotics did a little tho), the immunsupressive drugs did more worse then good(reactions) but on the paper i was fine. so i did quit these medications like 2 years ago or so but reactions is still here and it really sucks, but as for bloodtest im perfectly healthy.
Immunty comprimised yeah i belive that, gotta find the way to heal this gut. Im okey thought it just so frustrating
Damn that’s nasty. I feel sorry for you Bro. Given what we know now from the MeBO research, it would seem immunosuppressive drugs &  NSAIDs bring the worse out of PATM. Who knows maybe it started yours. I can’t think of having another disease on top PATM, that will be too much for me.
You know I went to read details on why MeBO made the study. They’ve had so many complaints from people who claimed to have odor problem but doctors can’t find it. So wanted to find ways to test if the claims are true or not. I hope you’ll have doctors to check for unknown conditions. Just take care of yourself well and help will come I’m sure.
thanks, its fine thought, im done with doctors i think until theres some new aproach(medications maybe) for these kind of wierd diseases, I only regret i dident do the studie where you swallow a camera and it takes pictures of even small intestine i think, because the gastroscopys and colonoscopys miss this area i think.
I willl go on next remedy try :)
It's been done many times. There's no way one can see microscopic microbes with a camera. You can't see gut permeability either. The findings suggest that PATM and TMAU2 gut permeability is just below the Allergy groups. That's significant. It would seem to suggest that even though rare some allergy patients might display PATM at times.
If we look at all possibilities on the table, it it's genetic based, only genetic engineering can cure it in lets say 30 yrs from now. If it's just microbes imbalance only FMT or a newly found antibiotic can cure this.
thats wierd ive been a allergy patient when im patm free, like in chilhood and the allergy came back when patm dissapeared as a adult too, same with asthma, even with that i felt alot better overall then this, now its more like some chemical sensitivities only
That's interesting, I've never heard that from members but it seems that's what the MeBO result is indirectly predicting.
There something I did recognize in the past and even now when I eat so much sweet. I mean so much. In the past when drink I’d eat so much sweet afterwards and then I’d sneeze for hours. I never thought about it. One of the reason I avoid eating too much sweet apart from worsening PATM is because of this. The reason why I remember is because it’s happening right now. When I’m on the vegetarian diet for too long I’m often craving for carbs and sweets after a while so I’m treating myself.
I know that relaxation decreases it probably cause you've lowered your heart rate  blood pressure and metabolism decreasing the amount of toxins out of the body. The more stimulated you are the worse it gets.
Avatar universal
Hi @patmtolong,

Interesting thought but I actually think that it is the other way around. I think my symtoms go hand-in-hand with low serotonine levels.

My PATM always goes together with other awfull symptoms; depression, itchy/ irritated skin, tired and irritated bowel etc..

Lately I am taking HTP-5 and I can actually recommend this to everyone on this forum. This stuff helps you with creating serotonine and fully relaxes you.

When I take HTP-5, I am relaxed and have less problems with all my symptoms. Btw, HTP-5 is a natural anti-depressant.

Serotonine is also made in the gut (95%) by our good bacteria. We are low in good bacteria and are high in toxins which would mean that it is harder for our body to create serotonine. Additionaly, I wouldn't be surprised if more serotonine would help with more good bacteria.

Try it out if you can get your hands on these pills, they are natural and cheap.


Itchylife/ MR_Feelbetter

Great findings there Itchylife, but I think it’s more like you’re getting a high than a cure. Sure serotonin helps the gut too so there’s a benefits there. Btw, tryptophan, the precursor amino-acid to HTP-5 and serotonin wasn’t implicated as a low metabolite in the MeBO experiment.

Brown Rice Powder has all the amino acids that you’ll ever need. And there’s a problem with taking artificial HTP-5. It’s a direct precursor to Serotonin, one of the most common happy neurotransmitters in the brain. Loading too Serotonin into the bloodstream and brain is ok if you have low serotonin but in most cases it’s bad.

Serotonin is among the compounds that determines your thinking. Users literary being fooled into feeling happy when you shouldn’t. Once you stop, you’ll fall into a really really bad depression despite what’s happening. It’s never good a good idea to mess with the chemistry of our brain. We can fix everything in our body but when the brain screws up it cannot fix itself. Don’t forget that recreational and hallucinogenic drugs are doing exactly the same thing, raising the level of happy neurotransmitters, and we all know that the ending is never good for users. Please be careful with HTP-5.
I think if FDA was capable of controlling and regulating the distribution of HTP-5 they would have but it’s extremely easy to manufacture so there’s no use of trying. Please read about Serotonin syndrome which occur in patients who’s been using serotonergic drugs. As I’ve said before their brains are being fooled regularly for so long that they start to develop weird symptoms including brisk reflexes, depression and mood swings.
HTP-5 is not natural by the way. Once you isolate it, it becomes a drug and the body isn't used to it. Steroids occur naturally on most meat but people have isolated them into high dosages.
Avatar universal
I see we are probably different but im glad it works for you! ive tried higher my serotonin before and it was not good for me at all, the oppposite. Depression doesent necessary means low serotonin but the typical clinical one often is i think and thats probably a great supplement if thats the case. Elevated serotonin could cause that too its just another type, for example social phobia is very linked too high, agitation too, while anxiety and fatigue is to both and theres alot too that. Just imbalance is very bad in general, it affects the other transmitters also.

Eszema/rashes/itching also linked to high and people with ibs-d and ibd linked to high too, while ibs-c is linked too low and slow metabolism.

its a individual puzzle or try and succeed/error

if i had problem with pain and sadness for example i would try it

if you easy shivering and easy gets goosebumps and sweat much, then your most likely very high and then i would be careful

take care
Patm does cause other problems in the body on different people.  I’m having pancreas issues.  But patm was first.  Leaky gut came later also.  And lactose intolerance.  But only in the last 6 months.  Patm has Been with me for 2 years.  
It’s not just old school biology anymore. Different  things are sprayed on us intentionally. Just look up. That’s why the for profit doctors are clueless.  Anyone who has extreme patm knows there is something besides the toxins.  A Braine component or electric   If yours doesn’t have unworldly characteristics than you are lucky.  Mine has 0 smell.  Some people on here says theirs does.    At any rate I love all the information here. Just adding my thoughts and truth of what’s happening to me. In hopes it helps someone else.
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