Sad...

[momof8215]

This isn't really a question...just a vent I guess!!! For those of you who don't know me or my situation, I just hit the year mark of ttc and decided now that I can't go through it anymore. Each month of BFN's is taking it's toll on me emotionally and I can't bare it anymoree.  I am sticking around for those of you who are in the home stretch so I can celebrate with you. What angers and frustrates me is that there are those who are blessed and then decide that oops, I can't handle what I've been given so I'll let it go and try again. I know everyone has a "right" to do that and I'm not supposed to judge other people, but I also know that I have a right to my "opinions" as well. If it's ok to announce one's "right", it's ok to voice an opinion. The further a pregnancy goes, the further developed the fetus is and there is pain involved for the fetus whether anyone wants to believe that or not, it's a fact. I just don't think it's ok to say, you aren't what I was hoping to get out of this so good bye. Healthy babies don't get the right to get rid of the parents if it's not what they were hoping for. A lot of them end up with abusive parents that don't get reported and it's a life of misery for them. I guess it's because I know so many special needs children and they truly are the most loving and affectionate of any other children brought into this world. They are the ones that are so eager to make others happy. Are they more work??? Of course they are but they are still human beings with feelings. Autism can't be diagnosed before birth and you can't throw those children away after they arrive and get diagnosed and they are just as much, if not more work than other special needs children. I believe you accept the hand you are dealt and make the best of it. I will apologize ahead of time if any of you are offended by what I've had to say, but it shouldn't be any different for me when I have to hear something that offends me. We listen, we reflect, and we go on. As I said before, we all have our rights and opinions and I just hope that I won't get criticized for voicing my side of things. I am feeling sorry for myself and angry all the way around and this was the best place for me to get it all out. After all, we all listen to and support what each one has to say, even if we don't like what we hear.  That is what made me join this group in the first place. I respect everyone else's thoughts and opinions, even if I don't agree...I just hope the same goes for me. Thanks to all of you ladies for listening...I feel much better now. I will be praying for all of you and waiting anxiously to hear all the good news of the new little beans out there.

[rubyinparadise]

I agree with Ecologic word for word. We aren't here to judge each other, even though we all have strong opinions. I'm notorious for having strong opinions, and I sometimes express them forcefully and then I have to do damage control. I'm workin' on it... So I understand how toes can get stepped on even with the best intentions all around.

I have miscarried, and I have aborted. The miscarriage was horrible and traumatic to me. The abortion, I made for personal reasons many years ago, and I can honestly say that I made peace with it before I did it, and I do not regret it. It was NOT an easy decision, but it was the right one for me at the time. Now I am pregnant at 39 and I am over the moon. I am already completely in love with my son. By the time I could have done amnio, I already knew that I could not choose abortion this time. But that's just ME, it doesn't mean I'm morally superior to anybody else here, or that I would see someone else's decision to abort at 16-20 weeks as a flippant one.

As several have said, until you walk a mile in someone else's shoes...

[melimeli]

ok the thread titled sad was fine.. she did not judge anyone.. she only stated what she was going through and how it affected her when she hears that others choose to terminate.. SHE ALSO DESERVES OUR SUPPORT and understanding.. she has been through a lot.. she did not go on the OP thread and judge or bash.. she started a new thread about the emotions she is going through after not being able to conceive and hearing of people terminating.. That is also PAIN...  sometimes we need a dose of reality.. if someone comes on here talking about drug use during pg.. I am not going to sugar coat.. I am going to tell her what she is doing to her baby is horrible.. now when someone comes on here choosing to end their babies life.. we can't say anything?  ok.. I was very nice in her thread and asked her to choose adoption.. BUT still when having fertility issues you wonder.. why me GOD why me I would love any child.. and it HURTS to see drug addicts get pg.. and it HURTS to see people terminate their babies lives when you just want a baby, and baby... you want to feel that little flutter of movement in your belly.. it hurts more than anything in this world.. SHE needs to be supported to in her grief.. in her suffering, and she is allowed those feelings.. she did not mention anyone.. she could have been talking about her best friend for all we know.. she only was talking about her feelings.. gorsh cut the poor woman some slack

just wanted to make sure you saw it...

[momof8215]

Hello again Ladies...I am glad that this took place. I've listened to several different opinions on here, and the beauty of it is there were people from each side of the spectrum and the ones in the middle having honest feelings coming out and they are NOT judgemental. Saying I hurt someone because they didn't like what I said, and then have someone wanting me to keep my mouth shut is horrible! Did they care about what hurt me or ask anyone else to keep their mouth shut because I didn't like what was said??? No they didn't. Notice, I am not slandering anyone or attacking anyone. There isn't anyone going to tell me that I can't have an opinion, a voice, or a feeling about a topic because other people don't like it. How would that be fair? Everyone has the right to say what's on their minds. The other thing you all need to understand is...I never mentioned anyone's name. Go back and read it again and again and again...Everyone else who responded to me mentioned a name. This wasn't about singling anyone out...it was spoken as a generalization about something I feel strongly about. It doesn't make me right but it doesn't make them right either. It's not about right or wrong, it's about choices and difference of opinions. It's about being allowed to say what's on our minds. Thank you.

[ita17]

correction.......sisters been divorced 3x's & like 10000 bad boyfriend choices ;) NEVER learns!

[ita17]

I have to say I pretty much agree w/you 100%.  But I DID offer support, because this is such a BIG choice to make, one that will haunt her, her whole life, & I really hope she talks to someone who can help her decide if termination is really best for her.  
Because of my personal & religious faith, I could & would not terminate, honestly, I don't even know if I would if they said my life was threatened.
I believe that every baby that we are blessed to have is a gift from God, I look at the "big" picture, & even though I don't have personal experience w/having a child w/disabilities (IK it would be very hard at times) I do feel that they are a blessing & our job & first priority should be raising & loving our children no matter how they come to us.  Nothing in this life is a guarantee, any one of us (or our family members) could leave our homes today 100% healthy, & in seconds be lying in a hospital bed w/new challenges ahead.

I am completely pro life (in case ya didn't know ;) but that doesn't make me judgmental in any way, it's just who I am & what I believe.  W/that being said, I too have had friends who have had abortions, & who had "tests" done @ 11 weeks & would have terminated if the baby wasn't quote -un-quote normal.......but I still love them, even though I don't agree.
My sister got pregnant 15 years ago, unmarried &  young, @ 21, already had one child (divorced) & was going to have an abortion.  She chose to not have one, & was able to hide her pregnancy well (she carries wide!)  She chose a family & gave the cute baby boy up for adoption.  My sister doesn't make the "best " choices in life (divorced 2 x's!) & is only 37....life has been tough for her, & she usually thinks of herself, but I KNOW that the baby boys family is so thankful that she did not abort, they will forever be grateful to her for their precious gift.
We ALL have hard choices to make in this life, thats what makes up grow & be stronger, but for me to terminate is a no brainer, & I think we ALL have the right to come on here & vent, ask for help etc......it may not be what WE want to hear, but in no way did I feel that this post was judging, it was only a point of view, & I think it should be respected as such, just like the other post should be respected, even though some of us don't agree.  I have to say, it made me very sad too, but it's not my choice, & all I can offer is any bit of insight that I may have ;o)

[pertykitty]

i want to add my two cents (ya like i could keep it in!).  lol.   anyway having had a hard time concieving in the past (poster it took about a year for my first, dont give up!) and its understandable to experience pain when you read something like that.  

i also have the experience now of knowing i am pg with a child that has ds.  she doesnt fit the "dream" or the "norm" we all have when ttc.  when i first heard the news i gave a very quick thought to what if i didnt keep the baby.  it was painful, it was horrific actually.  but it was short lived and i knew i had to have this baby.  it isnt going to be bad, its going to be wonderful!

so after walking in both shoes it is pianful both ways.  worse for those who have to decide on a child they are pg with actually. there are baby dust forums for those ttc, there are fertility forums for those that need support during their ttc journey.  its a shame there isnt a place for those to go to that face this situation.  

ive always said that when we have a vent like this that is emotional and possibly hurtful to those reading, we have journals.  we can have posters write back and keep it how you want with the edit buttons.  

[gillianl]

I read your post at the beginning and i do understand everyone's opinions on this site, unless you've been there you won't understand what the other person is going through either with abortions, ttc etc.  I myself have been ttc for 2 and a half years with no joy, i was told on this site by some women an HSG wasn't sore well they were majorly wrong, i myself felt the same as you when i first started " why are there so many people with no jobs, no homes, drug addicts, alcoholics etc having kids when respectable people like myself can't even conceive"

I myself don't agree with abortions but it doesn't mean i don't respect some of these women who have children in the womb with serious health or disability problems and they choose or are told to abort for the sake of saving a life and so on as i really don't think i would be emotionally stable enough to handle a disabled child.  I was hardly emotionally stable enough for an HSG.

I do feel sorry for you that you've given up ttc after just a year as a normal, healthy couple can conceive up to 2 years before being sent for fertility checks.

I wish you and all the women on this forum all the luck and respect in the world for their opinions and views and hope everyone thinks before they open up with regards to judging people the world would be a happier place if we lived life for the moment and not for our pasts or mistakes etc

[adgal]

Of course we should and can be able to vent  and express our feelings.  That was sort of my point and I think the point of many others.  No one was attacking anyone, just expressing how a very emotional topic made them feel.  Healthy debates (if you want to even call it that) are a good thing.  We are all adults and this is a tough topic.  For so many it's very hard to read about.  Like I said, it is going to bring out very very strong emotions for many.  Both sides of the issue should feel comfortable talking about their perspective and why they feel the way they do.  Dawn, you did not attack.  Neither you nor Lharris did anything wrong.  You simply see it differently, and it's a subject that you disagree on.  I certainly didn't get the impression you hated each other or anything....just saw it differently.  Why is that wrong?

[momof8215]

Listen ladies, I chose to vent and put my feelings out there because that is what we do on this forum. Just as someone in that situation has the right to discuss their decision to end a pregnancy, other's have the right to speak their feelings and "opinions". I in no way "attacked" anybody and no one was singled out. I have friends of mine who have ended pregnancies and they are still my friends...I did support them even though I didn't agree. My sister was forced to end a pregnancy with a perfectly healthy baby because she would have died (doctor's words). I still don't believe them, but I am not a doctor. I was venting how I feel and yes, some of it is because I have had trouble conceiving, but regardless...this is a forum where we should be able to do that no matter what!!! We are all different and going through different things, I do respect that. But just as she, or anyone else can post on this type of site a decision like that and get support, I can voice how I feel and get the same kind of support. That's what is so great about it. I felt comfortable doing it and I won't apologize for that. We are all grown ups here and good, bad, or indifferent, we have the right to speak. Thanks for listening and I do wish the best to anyone who makes that kind of decision. I don't have hard or bad feelings...just different. Have a nice day ladies...all of you. Thanks for all the responses.

[wanting4#1]

First, on a side not and in my personal opinion, NEITHER of the two posts that are being referred to are being judgmental, rude or attacking anyone else. So, please don't make a drama where there isn't one!

Second, I was saddened by lharris's post and I chose not to reply on it as I didn't think that I could find words that would truly be supportive. So, I took the route of not saying anything at all. As always, I will pray for all women who are struggling with the decision to terminate a baby. I thank God that I have not been put into that situation and I thank God that my faith and belief system is such that I wouldn't have a decision to make. But that is ME. I pray for women and for the babies. Because I don't agree with their decision DOES NOT implicitly mean that I am JUDGING them! Two very different words!!

Third, to momof8215, I am so sorry that you are going through this whole process. I pray, often, that women stop having to struggle with fertility and getting pregnant. It's not fair on so many levels!  We tried for almost 4 years before we were blessed by God during a break!  I will say this...I, too, had to stop with the injections, pills, IVF, IUI's, etc.  It hurt so much to go through, what I always thought of a a 'sure-thing', only for it to fail time and time again!

But I was referred to a NaPro doctor through my acupuncturist and I now STRONGLY encourage any woman who thinks she has no other options to seek one out. He gave me hope and possibility, as I didn't need medical intervention to continue my conception hopes alive!  Please do an internet search on NaPro before you completely walk away from ttc.

Good luck and stay strong! God bless....

[melimeli]

I don't know.. we were able to discuss our feeling about circumcision.. but have to hold our tongues when talking about something sooo much more important such as terminating a babies life.. we worry and sweat over foreskin and watch videos and think of the horror and  posibile benefit of removing it.. but we can't say what we feel about taking a heartbeat and making that little flitter end...  I would never post this on a persons thread that has made that decision.. but those people have a choice to read other threads on the topic and I don't think it needs to be sugar coated.. it is in the end choosing your life over the life of your baby...  if you do not feel equipped for a child you can give it up for adoption period.  what ever the reason may be.. if you cannot take care of something you don't do away with it... you give it to someone that can...  Adoption is the out.. for anyone that doesn't feel ready or able.. anything else is selfish..  that is my 2 cents..   it ***** that some kids are dealt a raw set of cards..   but that is life I guess...   That being said.. I am a teacher and I have an autistic boy in my class... and he is MY FAVORITE!  I can't get enough of him.. he is the sweetest boy I have ever met in my life... and I can't imagine what would have happened had his parents been told while pg. your son has autism.. they wouldn't have known to what degree they would have had to make a choice based on a word...  a title.. not a baby.. and he is the best... yesterday.. he came up to me to ask me a question about division (second grade grant you) and he said.. mmmm your breath smells good.. and I said yea, tropical fruit gum.. and he said yummy.. and smiled his boyish smile.. and I just said, zander, I love you!  he has not one mean bone in his body and is the vision of pure and simple happiness everyday..   sometimes we just don't know why we are chosen to be in the life of certain people.. but there is a plan greater than our own agenda

[adgal]

Here's the thing about a forum like this.  Behind these screen names are real people with real emotions.  Some of the less then positive reactions are not necessarily due to judgement.  They are due to strong personal feelings on certain issues.  A topic like this is guaranteed to bring out strong feelings, just like it does in real life.  It is just one of those highly sensitive issues. You should absolutely feel comfortable in posting your personal experiences here, that is what it is all about.  However, at the same time, you have to expect that an issue like this will invoke some strong responses.  We all have to make the decisions we make in life that we believe are best for us.  And for the most part this forum is a very peaceful, supportive place.  Certain topics are just more controversial then others..the debate on this particular subject has been going on for a long time and will probably never really come to a conclusion.  When you are talking to other people, you are going to hear both sides of it and this forum is no different.  Real people is equal to real emotions.  And this is a topic that brings out those strong emotions.  It's ok for all to feel the way they do, and not everyone will agree with other's choices.

[devo55]

I don't know how I'll really feel if I end up in a situation like yours (I imagine quite bad), but I'm having a CVS test in less than two weeks, and my husband and I have agreed that if the results are bad, we will terminate the pregnancy. I just thought I'd put that out there so you don't feel so alone in your decision.

[momafter14yrs]

if you ever come back on, im sorry that the forum has not been of a help to you.....Im very skeptical about putting my feeling out there. It made me feel so much better when I found this site, it brought comfort that I'm not getting in my life and to know that I have the same chance of being judge due to the decisions that I make have to make after my findings next week......that lady comments really touched home for me becuase me too is dealing with an issue very close to yours....Just know that you are in my prayers and GOD is a forgiving GOD and he knows what we can and cant handle....best wishes and hugs to you and your family!

[adgal]

I think it's hard for any of us to say what we would do in any situation unless we ourselves have been in that situation.  I thought alot about this post and this situation tonight as it's hard to see anyone in so much pain.  Dawn, you are hurting due to the fact you have not conceived when I know how desperatly you wanted another baby.  I honestly and truly hope that winds up being the case for you.  Lharris is hurting just as badly but for different reasons.  It just cannot have been an easy decision for her and her husband to make.  I like to think that had my baby had trisonomy 21 I would have handled it.  I never had to make that decision, so who knows what would have happened.  I just really feel that sometimes we have to agree to disagree and accept that though we may not always understand, we need to try to understand a bit what someone else may be going through.  I hope no one chooses to leave.  Everyone here brings so much value to this community and is a part of making it the wonderful, safe place it is.  

[SoCalTricia]

I think someone else said it on another thread...until you've walked a mile in someone's shoes, you just don't know what you would do if you were living their lives.

For example, as many of you know, I started a blog not long after Ian died. It has helped me immeasurably to get my feelings out. Even if no one was reading it, it has helped to just put my emotions out there somewhere other than my own shoulders. Well, it upset some people in my family. They felt it was something too private to put out there for the world to see. They thought I was looking for attention and being dramatic. As I told them...you don't know what it's like to be ME. And, by the grace of God, you will never experience a loss like this...but because of that, you have no right to judge what I am doing to try to survive this.

By the same token, most of us don't know what lharris is feeling. I honestly can't say - even given the loss I've experienced - that I would make a different choice. I just don't know, because I'm not in the same situation. And I can't say that I know what it's like to TTC for a year unsuccessfully...it must be a special kind of pain to want a child so badly and not be able to have one.

So...I've gone on too long...but I just think that, again, it's easy to imagine what you would do in some situations...it's another thing entirely to BE in that situation.

[lharris927]

I imagine it was my post that upset you and I'm sorry.  You have no idea the pain and agony I'm feeling at the moment.  But of course you have a right to your views and your opinion.  Just as I have a right to mine.  My choice is not easy.  It's not flippant or made lightly.  I have bawled for hours.  I am in complete agony over this -- and yet I believe it's right for my situation.

I truly, truly hope you get your wish and conceive.  And I hope you get a perfectly healthy baby, though if you don't, you are blessed that you know you can deal with that.  I never expected to find myself in this situation, and the older I've gotten, the more I believe that while I am Pro Choice, it's not a decision I could ever make lightly.  It's not a decision I ever expected to make.

But I am sorry if my situation and my decision hurts you.  I really am.  I came to these boards only recently, and I was delighted to find support and understanding here.  I probably shouldn't have said what my decision was, but I was hurting and raw and I wrote it without thought for others feelings.  

On the other hand, my feelings are pretty darn raw at the moment.  Your post hurt me in return.  You don't know me or my situation and you have no right to judge me.  And yes, every word you said hurts me.  So we've now hurt each other.  I didn't mean to come back tonight, but I feel so horrible and I came here because it's been comforting in one way or another.

You've been here longer than I, so I'll bow out.  Again, I'm sorry and I hope you get your wish for a baby.  I can understand your pain.  I hope you can understand mine.

[Juliaschill]

I really don't see this post as a judgement, it is just an opinion on a very emontional topic. and I think everyone here has the right to voice theirs, good or bad. I  always try not to judge anyone, and like alot of people on here it is hard to always keep my emotions in check, and isn't slamming her for stating her opinion the same as judging her. I feel bad for any women who has to make the choice to abort or not, it can not be an easy one. and again it is their choice and I will suport them, always even if it would not have been my choice. Lets just all suport everyone, we all will have times when we don't agree, but we still need each other. huggs to all

[Ecologic]

I am sorry you're having problems to conceive, but I do not think it gives you the right to judge in public those who choose to abort. If a person chooses to abort because she has a fetus with a genetic problem, that's HER choice, not yours. It's already a very hard decision to make, and to be judged in public for it must be even harder.

[adgal]

It's always ok and healthy in fact to get our feelings and emotions out.  I knew that post would invoke some strong emotions and would be very difficult for some to read.  I will admit that it is a challenging subject for me as well, although I am firmly pro choice.  My reasons for my beliefs are that even though something may not be the right decision for me, I cannot make those decisions for others.  So although it's not uncommon for me to disagree with someone else's decision or perspective I try to respect it as their decision.  I hope that made sense sort of. Dawn, I know you have been through so much in this last year and it has been so hard for you.  I know your heart is broken in having come to the conclusion it's time to stop (or at least take a break).  I hurt for you, I truly do, and I wish so badly it could be different for you.  I too hope and pray that whatever the outcome finally is for you, that is a happy one and one you can find peace with.  As I said, I don't always pretend to understand other's decisions, but I will continue to try to support them in their own trials and what for some may be a painful decision, but perhaps they feel it's the only one they can make for reasons that others may not always understand (again, not sure that made sense, but hopefully you understand what I mean).  Lots of love my friend, and I am glad you are not disappearing on us.  

[momafter14yrs]

Until you walk a mile in some one shoes NEVER past judgement.....somethings are better kept unsaid that's how I feel.....you have the rite to your opinion but we come on this forum for love and support that we may not be getting else where....I'VE ALWAYS HEARD THATS IT BETTER TO BE A LISTENER THAN A TALKER.......i think that alot of women are already battling with their decions so just by us throwing our negative 32 cents can throw them over the edge....I do believe that you have that right to voice how you feel but to me you sound like you a person  that is angry becauseyou are having issues concieving. We all know our limits in life and through our trials and tribulation we've learned what we can and cant handle.....

[tricia448]

i think you are absolutely entitled to your opinions and should be able to vent them as well. thats the beauty of this board...we can all agree to disagree...its just as important for you to state your views and to vent...as long as we all do it respectfully. unfortunately in life we all make decisions...good ones and bad ones...but as long as we can put our head on our pillows at night and feel a peace about what we have decided is all that matters. not what other peoples views are...every situation is unique!
on a side note...i am sorry for what you have gone thru with TTC and i pray you will be blessed! you sound like a very strong woman....

[Juliaschill]

I am not offened, I am humbled! I have adopted 5 special needs children, one with autism,one CF,one spinal bifita,and 2 with mild MR, I am glad that their Mom chose to let me raise them as mine instead of ending their pregnancy. I do suport everyones choice even is I may not agree, I guess i would not judge anyone,as I am not in their shoes. I am sorry you are not going to try any more,but do understand about get BFN,we got them for 5 years then stopped trying then ended up pregnant 6 years after that! and now again, I will not ever forget how blessed I am. Thank you for sharing

[rdh1981]

I could not agree more! I know what post you are talking about and disgusted me. As a mother who found out that my son had a life threating condition, I was given that same opition but I did not even consider that an opition! I can live with myself knowing we did everything possible for Cooper.

Thanks for starting this, I could not comment on that post without being rude.

Sorry about ttc, hang in there it took me two yrs to get pregnant with Cooper.