Circumcision Decision.

[Riot_Queen]

I'm having a boy and I'm glad because I already have a girl. But it's also my worst nightmare because now I gatta deal with my problem with circumcision.

Most places do not generally offer any sort of pain killers for the procedure and I think that is TERRIBLE.

BABIES FEEL PAIN.
They are human just like we are, and feel pain the same as we do!!!
Why don't doctors get that!?
Yeah, it's a quick procedure but god dammit it still hurts them!!!
I can't stand to think about it.
I don't want them to hurt my baby.

I know all the pro's and con's of being circumcized and uncircumcized, and I'd like it done because it's easier to keep baby clean, but I don't want it because I can't stand to think about what they're doing to him.

Hubby says he's getting it done whether I like it or not, because when he was a baby, he was too sick and didn't get circumsized till he was 14 years old, and doesn't want his son to have to deal with all the issues with not having it done like he had to.

So I'm wondering, if maybe I could somehow DEMAND my son get some sort of pain killer or numbing stuff for the procedure?
Has anyone else done anything like that and did it work?

[djdude223]

"Who knows, maybe he'll like being intact and want to stay that way"  - Wow, you think?

[robertsam]

I think we all need a little rational thought here.

The fact is that the rates of ALL  problems claimed to exist from not circumcising males are lower in Intact countries than in circumcising countries.

Not only that that, the rates of  problems CAUSED  by circumcision are higher than any that occur from not being circumcised if the intact penis is not mishandled.

There really is no rational reason to ever circumcise an infant without an immediate medical need.

The only people in the world who circumcise are mostly Americans, Jews, and Muslims--less than 20%.

[AHP84]

I had my son circumsized and breastfed him, and I can assure you, our breastfeeding relasionship was not altered in any way. As soon as the lactation consultants taught him how to latch on (which he was unable to figure out on his own BEFORE his circumcision), he breastfed with no problems for eight months. He weaned himself when he became much more interested in eating solid food.
I'm having another son in February, and I will be having him circumsized as well, and also breastfeed him.
I've read every post there is to read in these forums about getting it done vs. not getting it done, along with plenty of medical studies from other sources, so I know I am well informed in my descision. My husband and I feel this is the best descision to make for the boys in our family.

[Riot_Queen]

I don't think getting your kids circumcized makes you bad parents.
I think alot of parents aren't informed enough before making the decision though.

I'm not here to convince ANYONE to do anything against their will, but the facts are stated and everyone's opinion is taken.
I don't think that the procedure itself is a bad thing, but the way they do it, is.
They need to come out with a local anesthetic more effective for the baby's pain relief, and the fact that all these doctors KNOW what they're doing to these babies, and still don't use any numbing shots or anything in that sort as part of EVERY procedur, is HORRIBLE.

I dunno, think that parents need to be more informed about this topic and what is REALLY going on behind that closed door because I just feel so bad for babies that have to go through this.
It's a very hard thing for me to think about and swallow and it breaks my heart to hear about stuff like this happening to babies.
I can't bare to even THINK about babies being hurt nevermind actually see it for myself like I did on that video.
I have the biggest soft spot in my heart for babies now that I'm a parent myself, and I just can't stand for anything ever happening to my children.
Atleast I can save my own kids and try to help others.

[ziggysgrl0724]

Of course this is a personal choice and all.....but I just want to say that I don't agree with the fact that it is almost being portrayed that those of us who do get our children circumcised(or want to) are purposefully hurting their child.  I did it with both of my sons, and even though my youngest son needed a surgery a few years later(for something that may have been related to circumcision but not definitely) I would do it again.  I know that IMO I have been with uncircumcised men, some of which were so unclean that there was an odor coming from his penis.  For me and my family, circumcision was the way to go.....of course that's not the same for everyone.  If people disagree with circumcision that is fine, and everyone is entitled to their beliefs and opinion.  I just don't like that it kind of seems like those of us that do agree with circumcision are evil people that get off on hurting their kids....that's all.

[Riot_Queen]

No thanks, we're really not gunna get it done.
An opinion of a professional is not gunna cover up the truth about circumcision and change my mind.

Hubby has made it very clear that he wants his son to choose when he's "of age" and in his case, he's chosen to talk to him after his 13th birthday and leave the option open for him until he moves out.
Cuz he may not understand or want to get it done right away.
But he's got from the age of 13 till he moves out on his own to make up his mind and we'll provide the $$ needed for the procedure.

Plus I've read that a new descovery of getting a baby circumcised can effect a breastfeeding relationship and that is deff a concern of mine.
I breastfed my daughter for 8 months, and woulda went longer if I didn't get pregnant again and my body could have handled providing for 2 babies.
I plan to breastfeed this baby for his first year if it hairlips the president. lol
I don't want anything getting in my way from accomplishing that.

I think all in all, it would be better for the family that he be left the way he is.
Hubby says he feels bad that he got it done now.
It was his choice to get it done, but he was not informed properly. Only thing he was told was that most guys are cut, so maybe he'd like to joint the crowd.
He was also having problems with infections because #1 he wasn't properly cleaning himself because no one showed him how, and #2, his parents retracted him as a baby, and I'm pretty sure that's why he was having most of his problems.

I feel much better about having my baby as happy as he can be and am in no where near comfortable with putting him through trama like that for something as stupid as a circumcision.
Trama, even as a baby, has been proven to have long-term effects on them.
I don't want a tramatized baby.
Local anesthetics do not provide full pain relief and they still feel pain.
The local anesthetics are less effective than a spinal epidural for a c-section where you still feel the uncomfortness from the tugging and cutting.
I know what it feels like to be under the blade and your anesthetic not work. I am NOT gunna put my sone through that kinda pain. I wouldn't even put my worst enemy through that.

[heatherlynn22]

we had both of our boys circed. they did when they were 5 days old (the day they came home from the hospital). they did administer a local into their little wee wee's (which was when they cried..they got a shot in the wee wee. i would cry too. lol) the procedure itself lasted for MAYBE a minute. by time the nurse brought them to use (about 5 minutes after that b/c they had to put the vaseline on their wee wee's and rediaper/dress them) they were cooing and giggling. the only thing we had to do after that was keep the penis covered in vaseline until the "scab" on the tip fell off. which was 5-7 days later. we have had no problems with their wee wees at all (besides them yanking on them as soon as their diapers are off). the doc did say IF they did end up getting a fever/infection or anything to give them childrens tylonol and to call their pedi. we never had to do that b/c they never got a fever or infection.

it does look gross afterward. their wee's were purple and red with the yellowish scab over the tip; however, after that first week the scab feel off and the wee's healed.

have you talked to your pedi about it? s/he could give you information on both circed and uncirced wee wee's and his/her opinion on the subject. it's always good to get a professionals opinion on something like that. i talked to my ob about it (he has 4 kids...2 are boys) and he said his OWN PERSONAL opinion was to do the circ (not why we did it. we talked and discussed it first) but did give us information and pamphlets on both.

[latinalonestar]

Yes, that is most def. the reason your husband suffered problems.  Here are some very important links for you.  Print the following pamphlets out and keep them with you.  Before every newborn exam make sure you remind the doctor not to manipulate the foreskin in any way, shape, or form.  There is no reason for them to do anything with the foreskin.  If they persist or argue with them, hand them these pamphlets and take your son to a new doctor.  Forcible retraction happens in the blink of an eye!  I've even had a doctor try to do it to my son after I told her to take her hands off his penis.  It is harmful and the equivalent of a doctor trying to put their fingers in a girls vagina.  A good rule of thumb to follow is that the only person to manipulate a foreskin is the boy himself.  ;)  Now during the diaper wearing years if anything (poop) gets on the penis, you just wipe from base to tip like you would wipe off a finger.   (You don't need to wipe after urination.)  I always shower my kids off if it is a really messy poop.  You never have to worry about anything getting inside the foreskin b/c the opening is a sphincter that only relaxes to let urine out.  The foreskin is also tightly fused in infancy.  Throughout childhood it will separate and the opening will widen.  Hormones are what is responsible for widening the opening, which is why many boys do not retract until puberty hormones have done their job.  What happens is that the hormones replace the fiber dense tissue with a more elastic tissue.   So when a person tries to retract a boy they tear the narrow opening and tear the foreskin off the glans (head) this creates a wound that can become infected and also can create scar tissue among other complications.

*Replace the "xx" with "tt" when you paste it in your browser in order to go to the link:

Answers to your questions about your intact son:
hxxp://www.nocirc.org/publish/pamphlet4.html

Dangers of Forcible Retraction:
hxxp://www.nocirc.org/publish/pamphlet6.html

Development of a Retractable Foreskin in a Child/Adolescent:
hxxp://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...kinleaflet.pdf

AAP Care for Intact Boy Guidelines:
hxxp://www.cirp.org/library/normal/aap/

Avoiding Circumcision after the Neonatal Period:  
hxxp://www.nocirc.org/publish/pamphlet7.html

And Last but certainly not least!!!  This is a very important article for you to read:
Protect Your Intact Son, Expert Medical Advice:
hxxp://www.mothering.com/health/prot...advice-parents

So glad I could help you protect you little one!  
Cheers,
Jen

[Vic85]

There are advantages to being from the uk!!!

Anyway i agree hear hear latinalonestar, i thought it was strange they were talking about retracting the foreskin to clean-I have never done this with my son as here in the UK they tell you absolutely NOT to pull a little boys foreskin back as you can do some serious damage.
Riotqueen-good luck with your son and dont let the family try to persuade you out of your decision. Your son-your way whatever the decision is about.

[KATE535]

Hear hear !!!

Couldn't have said it better myself.
I agree with all you said.
That was worth the read.

[KATE535]

Here in the UK there is no stigma associated with not being circumcised. I have two boys who have not had it done and have never had infections or issues with cleanliness in that area because of not having it done. There's nothing to say to me that my boys (or my partner) are any less clean than other males who have been circumcised. Poor hygiene is far more likely to be the cause than having a fore skin.
I too could not bear to have my baby put through that pain, but that is my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs on what is right for their child. But I could not do it. Why fix what's not broken? Nature has designed boys to be a certain way so why not let them be the way nature intends? I just feel sorry for babies who experience that pain so young.

Good luck anyway.

[carriee522]

Congrats on your decision; I think you guys made an excellent, informed choice. I wanted to jump in and mention that my son is 3 and not retractable, my cousin is 7 and IS and his brother is 10 and not retractable yet...so it definitely varies and all are normal!

[Riot_Queen]

Wow that's really interesting to read.
I didn't know that boys went THAT long without being able to be retractable.
Hubby's parents said that they retracted him even as an infant.
That makes me wonder if that's probably the reason why he had so many problems with back to back infections as a child and into his teenaged years until he finally got it done.

I'll have to let hubby read this. He'll probably be interested.
I should print it out and let my MIL read it to!!

[latinalonestar]

Several misconceptions to clear up.  Here are some facts:

1. In case you heard that circ reduces the risk of penile cancer...Penile cancer is more rare than male breast cancer. Penile cancer is one of the rarest forms of cancer. Breast cancer in women on the other hand is very common, yet we don't go removing the breast buds of baby girls.

2. In case you heard circ reduces risk of UTI...Foreskin actually protects against UTI if cared for properly, meaning you never try to retract for any reason. Those fallacious studies that were done in the 80s compared intact (uncircumcised) premature babies to full-term circumcised babies. Premature babies have a significantly higher risk of UTI. Also the parents of those babies were instructed to retract for "cleaning" which tears the foreskin off the glans and introduces infection. Besides, the study only pertained to the first year of life. After the first year there was no significant difference. One thing you should know is that girls are 4-6 times more likely to get a UTI than an intact boy. The occurrence of UTI in boys, regardless of their circ status, is very rare.

3. There are both protective and sexual functions of the foreskin. In childhood it protects the developing penis and keeps urine, feces and other pathogens from entering the urethra. In adulthood there are extensive sexual functions. This specialized tissue is packed with nerves (over 20,000), blood supply, muscle fibers, and cells similar to those found in the fingertips and lips. According to fine pressure studies and studies of the actual composition it is the most sensitive part of the entire penis. This composition allows the man to have more control during intercourse which is why intact men are less likely to suffer erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculatory dysfunction.

4. No medical organization in the entire world recommends routine infant circumcision. In its 75 years of existence the AAP has never recommended circumcision.

5. Circumcision permanently alters both the function and the appearance of a child's sex organ. Ethically speaking, doctors are not allowed to perform non-therapeutic operations on healthy children without medical necessity.

6. The proper care of the intact penis is to leave it alone. Only clean what is seen. Never try to retract or allow a medical professional to retract a child's foreskin. Thousands of cases each year are reported where a doctor, ignorant to the development of the intact boy, has tried to retract a child's foreskin. This is a form of malpractice. Trying to retract a boy's foreskin is like trying to wash out a baby girl's vagina. It leads to tearing, scar tissue, introduces infection and can lead to some more serious complications.

7. In case you heard circ reduces the risk of STDs and/or HIV...USA has the highest rate of STD/HIV transmission and is the only country that routinely circumcises. Circumcision might hide the symptoms of STD making circumcised men unaware that they have an STD and so they pass it to many partners. Also, studies report that circumcised men are less likely to use condoms, which is probably why the transmission rates are astronomical in the USA. Condom use is the only way to prevent against STD transmission. Over 500,000 circumcised, American men have died of AIDs

8. The circ rate in the US is currently 56% and falling. In some costal cities it is as low as 30%. Your son will be in good company in the locker room. Teaching him the value of his foreskin and the harms of circumcision is the best way to promote bodily integrity. Most intact children are appalled when they learn that some boys are circumcised, and feel sorry for those boys. As a side not my intact husband grew up in an era when the circ rate was much higher and never felt insecure about his body. Men love their foreskins especially as they mature sexually.

9.  It is rare that a man will need a circ later in life.  The problem is that most doctors in the US don't know about the normal development of the intact boy and they ignorantly tell parents to try to retract to clean.  This can cause infection, scar tissue and lead to complications later in life.  Also many doctors don't understand that it is normal for a boy not to become retractable until AFTER puberty.  Phimosis can NOT be diagnosed until puberty has finished.  In the rare event that a man is not retractable a steroidal cream will treat the issue without surgery or amputation.  Only 50% of intact boys are retractable by age 10 and the others sometime between 10 and the end of puberty.  The proper care of an intact child is to always leave it alone.  If you do that your son will have no problems.  

Interested to learn more? Please check out my blog that discusses the top 12 myths about circumcision and the intact male. I have many resources there for you to explore.  hxxp://tribalbaby.blogspot.com/

Please protect your dear son from the harms of circumcision. Give him the choice over the appearance and function of his most private area. By doing this you are not make a decision, you are letting HIM decide.

Best Wishes and please read my blog post.

[Riot_Queen]

I agree that he should have the right to decide what he wants done with his body.
But I think most of the ladies on here are exelent mommies and daddies whether they get their sons done or not.
If they feel it's best for their lil one, then it's the right decision.

I do thank everyone on here for their thoughts and opinions.
I've learned alot from everyone on here about the topic, aswell as internet info and it helped hubby n I make a more informed decision.

[Squall20202]

That is a great decision and I think you and your husband should get a lot of respect for it.  It is after all his body and only he should decide what to do in this regard. According to the UN ( United Nations ) it is the boy's/man's right to decide at the age of 18 if he wants it done or not. To be forced to do it or forced to decide to do it before then is illegal by the UN because it violates basic human rights. I live in the US and this right is violated constantly. BE PROUD, you are doing what is best for your child by letting him choose what to do with HIS body. You and your husband are good parents.

[Riot_Queen]

Well, hubby still doesn't wanna do it whether the doc offers pain killers er not. He wants Aiden to decide for himself when he's older.
I'm completely happy with the decision.
Thanks all.

[Riot_Queen]

I do want to thank everyone for their imput.
I will be talking to the pediatrician that I've chosen for Aiden about the subject even though we don't want to go through with it at this point.
But I just want to find out everything I can so we can make an imformed decision and maybe the thought of a GOOD numbing shot being offered, might shed a little bit of light and maybe we'll reconcider.

The only thing that still in the back of my mind makes me think is,
only 20% of male babies get circumcized everywhere else in the country, but I live in the south, and it is still about a 70-80% rate of circumcision down here. And although I was born in New England, and my mind is set different than everyone down here, we still live down in the south, and my son will be surrounded by the way people think down HERE.
And if all his lil boy friends are cut, and he's not, I'm afraid of him being outcasted because of that.

It just scares me that something could go terribly wrong and deform my son.
I've always thought of the worst, it's not just reading on the internet, my whole life I always thought of the worst that could happen and shut myself away from it.
And ontop of that, not being offered a good pain killer is truely a horrible thought to think about my son having to deal with that and there's NOTHING he can do about it.
I say that because I know what it feels like to be cut and feel it because they didn't do my numbing medication right when I went in for my c-section and the pain is the worst thing I've ever felt and it makes me sick to think about it even almost a year later.

I guess it all comes down to what my pediatrician says.
I'll post a new thread when I get a call back from him hopefully sometime today cuz I left a message.
I'll let everyone know what he says and our final decision.

[LauraB78]

I think this post is interesting and inaccurate. People need to do whatever they are comfortable with. I wish you the best of luck. You may want to start a new post telling everyone that you have decided against circumcision as I think the issue is getting confused here.

Joy had defended you looking for pain relief options, but it turns out you now have decided that circumcision is barbaric. For those that commented and never had FIRST hand experience (with YOUR child), you should probably be CLEAR that YOU were NOT present and that you didnt care for the child/ren 24-7. Therefore, you do NOT know that the procedure NOR the aftercare were tended to properly. I have NEVER heard of a penis "peeling," but hey, who knows.

Again, I think its a personal decision and want NO part in a debate, I jus HAD to comment b/c this post is totally loaded with inconsistant information and innaccurate information..

[MedicChick1]

I hope I do not offend you with what I have to say as that is not my intentions. First of all, I am glad you finally came to a decision that you and your hubby agree on. Second of all as far as your in laws go, basically ignore them. I love my in laws to death and I will take my mother in laws advice when I have asked for it. If she tries to make decisions in our parenting, I ignore her. this is not thier baby, it is you and your husbands. I got lucky and mine understand we are the ones raising our boys not them. Third of all as far as the circumcision itself, I feel it is a to each his own kind of matter. If you don't want to for religious reasons then fine, If you prefer easier hygene, fine. I have had all 3 of my boys circumcised and none of them cried or anything. I don't know for sure if they used anesthetic or not because I was in recovery from my c-sections. I am almost completely positive you can request anesthesia if they don't automatically do it. As far as the healing and pain afterwards, none of my boys have seemed to be affected *e.g. crying or fussiness or anything like that post procedure*. When you do get them circumcised *at least here* when you change their diapers you put a triple antibiotic ointment on a piece of gauze covering the penis so it will heal nicely and prevent the diaper from sticking to the penis itself. I feel that not having it done is just fine though because, like other posters have stated, if you clean it properly and you teach them how and make sure they do it right then you won't have issues with infection. Heck, you have a risk of infection with having it done! If you don't keep the head of the penis clean then it will get infected around where the shaft meets the head. I know you have made your decision already, but I just don't want you to think that most circumcisions go horribly wrong because they don't. I also trust that you and your hubby, as his parents, will make the decision you guys feel is best for him! Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy and teh delivery!!~

[rebekah385]

Hi,
i'm glad you and your husband came to an agreement. I have 2 son both are circumcised my first was circumcised in the hospital without a pain killer I insisted on being in the room and he did'nt even cry it was over in like 3 or 4 seconds and then he was just fine he had a plastibel and it did'nt even need gauze and was healed in about 2 weeks. My second son was born a year and a half ago and he had his circumcision done in the doctors office at his 2 week check up, this time the doctor did give him a shot for a pain killer he screamed from the shot and was upset more than my first that had no pain medication, so I don't know which way is best. I was in thr room with him as well and the procedure did'nt take very long this time it was a regular circumcision and I did need to put gauze and ointment on him for about 10 day and then he was fine. I had to pay $150 both times with the last one being a year and a half ago, but insurance did not cover, because it is considered cosmetic. I have seen both sides of the issue my brother is uncircumcised and has had no preoblems or infection on the other hand my sister-in-law chose not to have it done and cleaned her son very well and he kept getting repeat infections over and over and it caused a lot of issues and he ended up having to have it done at 1 1/2 and it was a much bigger deal and took a lot more surgery time and recovery time. In the end I think it all comes down to a personal decision about what you think is best for your baby and family, My husband and I decided to circumcise our boys, because my husband is circumcised and we think it is better, but my family (father, brother, uncals, ect.) do not circumcise mostly because of cost. good luck to you and your baby, and don't let anyone, but you and your DH decide what is best for your baby.

[LauraB78]

I just sent you a PM.

[Sim80]

I also think this idea that  a circumcised penis is easier to clean is just an excuse to justify this procedure and the very idea to perform surgery just because it is easier to clean is insane (it just takes a couple of seconds to clean when showering). Empirical evidence shows circumcision is a lie : all developped countries no longer routinely circumcise (except US with now a rate of only 56%) and don't have any problems. Circumcision was always used as an excuse because it was supposed to cure terrible diseases at that time : in late 1800s there was the fear of masturbation, then there was the fear of germs so hygiene was the new excuse, after there was fear of cancer that circumcision could cure and now HIV is the new reason to circumcise with the fear of AIDS. Almost all of these reasons have been debunked. I think this is also true for HIV, America has the highest HIV rates in industrialized world and the highest circumcision rate, most US men who died from AIDS were circumcised, when AIDS appeared in 80s almost all men were already circumcised. History shows it's just a cure searching for a disease. I believe circumcision doesn't cure anything, foresin is natural, perfeclty healthy and extremly erogenous; there's no reason to amputate it.

[Vic85]

Being from the good old UK i find it strange that there is such a discussion about choppin the end of your litttle mans bits off. As you can probably gather its not something thats done over here. Ive only ever got intamate (not all the way) with one guy who HAD been circumsised and I found it a little wierd! My DH still has all his bits (so to speak) and never gets any infections, my 14 month old DS also has all his bits and also never gets infected. Just to put the other side of the story across that actually its not all that bad not to have it done. I think if i had the choice I still wouldnt put my sons through it-nature put it there for a reason!!