Could the doctor be wrong?

[TiffanyMarie2009]

Okay, so this will probably be as confusing to all of you as it is to me, but hopefully someone will understand and be able to offer some advice or knowledge from a similar experience.

I am currently 10 weeks pregnant.
I had my first prenatal appointment this past Monday, March 9, 2009.
Everything went great until I did my ultrasound.
The ultrasound technician only spent a total of about 5 minutes on my ultrasound, less than one minute which was devoted to trying to find my baby's heartbeat. She spent less than a minute then quit doing the ultrasound, the heartbeat wasn't detected. Two of my friends are currently pregnant as well, one of which took 30 minutes to find her baby's heartbeat and the other just said it took them a while to find hers.

I was told that my pregnancy may not be viable.

That night, March 9, 2009, I am 99.9% positive that I felt the baby flutter. It was in my uterus on the left side. Kinda felt like a fish was going back and forth (from top to bottom) creating waves that almost felt like they had a gentle vibration to them. I felt this for 10-20 seconds, but then I moved and could not feel it any longer.

The following morning, March 10, 2009, I woke up extremely hot. I felt like it was 80 degrees when it was only 55 degrees. I could not cool down for anything. Also, I had really bad nausea, a headache that lasted two days (until March 11, 2009), was moody, and exhausted from doing nothing. That evening I cooled down, but would freeze and couldn't get warm for anything. I usually go through this when my hormones rise. One of my, also pregnant, friends goes through the same thing, except she is 5 months along.

Then on March 11, 2009, I had more blood work done. Still had all my normal symptoms.

Today, March 12, 2009, I had a recheck with the doctor and he proceeded to tell me that my hcg levels have dropped "a little bit" and that the pregnancy isn't viable. I told him about how I had felt the baby flutters and how I was certain my hormones had risen due to the symptoms. Then I requested a new ultrasound be done with someone different, for a second opinion. I go on March 17, 2009 to have the new ultrasound done.

**I still have all my symptoms, they actually progress as time goes on. I saw the baby in the ultrasound (my first one on March 9th) and everything looked normal the baby definitely was following schedule. I was 9 weeks and 4 days on march 9th. I have had NO symptoms of miscarriage. None at all!!**

So my question is:

Does anyone know what could be going on? The doctor says non-viable pregnancy, but I felt the flutters and have no symptoms of a miscarriage. Also, does it mean 100% that if your hormones drop "a little bit" (exact words of the doctor) that you will have a miscarriage? Nothing makes sense to me and Tuesday is so far away!! Please help!!

[worriedbabe]

all i know is it's right on top in the sac, saw it at my 18 week u/s. but i had a scan around 10 weeks and it wasn't visible at all. anyway, am truly sorry for your loss and hope you're ok, and like someone else said, at least you know why and that it can be prevented from happening again

[TiffanyMarie2009]

Oh, what he should have told you is that the placenta doesn't take over until around 13 weeks. The placenta begins growing at the moment of conception. The yolk sac is what is doing the work for the placenta until it is mature enough to take over. But it is there. Also, I was told last night that my placenta is in the front of my uterus and that could be why I saw mine sooner. Yours could be towards the back.

[worriedbabe]

well, i'm puzzled. my doctors have told me that the placenta doesn't form till 13 weeks so how you saw yours at 10 weeks i don't know

[ives1974dillard]

i had a m/c back in march last year and i know how you feel and i said that it was a little girl and her name was savannah rose and i also think that we just got little angels to watch over us . dont give up stay strong and lots of hugs!!!!!!

[sweetangel7]

I'm glad you finally got closure on this.  Stay strong =)

[NicMom]

I'm sorry for you loss and at the same time glad that they were able to tell you why. For so many women that question is never answered. Now that you know what the problem is you probably will go on to have a healthy pregnancy. You should like a very strong person and I wish you the best of luck in this difficult time.

[TiffanyMarie2009]

Okay, so first I would like to apologize to anyone I may have had an attitude towards. I am sorry I acted that way. You were only answering my questions as I asked.

Last night I finally broke down and accepted the loss of my baby. I went to the ER for some peace of mind.

I did find out I have a urinary tract infection, so that is good that I went to the ER. If I hadn't I may not have found out, at least not for a while.

Also, I have been informed this morning that I have inherited an RH factor from my mother. So my body was forming antibodies against my baby. And that is why I had this loss.

I believe that this is not my first pregnancy, but the first one I have seen (caught before a miscarriage.)

Tomorrow I go see one of my doctor's and I will receive a shot to fix the RH factor and will be able to continue with normal pregnancies in the future. So that is a plus.

Also, I will figure out if I will need a D & C, which my mom and I believe I will. We think I had a missed abortion. She had this when she was younger too. Like mother like daughter! :)

As far as my emotion well-being, I am definitely doing okay. I am still a little sad that I lost my baby, but I have accepted the loss and let go. I know my baby is in a better place with the lord above and is looking down on me every day making sure I am okay. I may have lost a baby, but I gained another angel!!

My baby will always have a piece of my heart and I will always remember him. One day we will meet again and it will be precious.

My instincts have pointed to a boy since I found out I was pregnant. So I will move forward believing my baby was a boy. It makes the experience more special, because I can remember my baby as "one" rather than "it!"

I have decided to name the baby Owenn Joshua. Owenn was the name that my instincts chose for me from the beginning and Joshua was his father's best friend's name that had passed away a few years back.

Thanks again everyone and I wish everyone luck with their pregnancies and future pregnancies.

May god bless you all!

[bryanarae]

I'm sorry that you are going through this. I wish it could be easier for you. I don't want to get into an argument with anyone, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But I'll just share my experiences with you.
I had my son in Dec '05. In Sept '06 I found out I was pregnant again. When I found out I was roughly 5 weeks. I went for an ultrasound at 7 weeks and didn't see a heart beat. I was told it was possible it may be too early to see and that the dates could be off. I went back at 9 weeks to try to find a heart beat and no heart beat was detected. The fetus looked bigger and seemed to have moved position, but it turns out gravity had taken over, pulling the fetus down and yok salk up. Baby stoppped growing at 5w4d. So it was early. I was asked if I wanted a D&C and decided to wait a bit longer for a natural miscarriage. Keep in mind it had already been 1 month. After 2 more weeks of no miscarriage I had to take some pills to make it happen. Finally 7 weeks after the fetus stopped growing, I miscarried. This is not to discourage you, just a simple experience.
However, this time around, I found out I was pregnant Oct '08. I concieved Sept '08. I found out at 4w2d. First u/s was at 6 weeks. Couldn't see a heart beat, again, could have been too early. Went back at 8w4d, found a heart beat after 25 minutes. So far it is a healthy pregnancy and I am 26w4d. These are only my experiences. Just thought I'd share them.
I don't want you to lose hope, but I also don't want you to rope yourself into false hope. I think getting another opinion completely seperate from your doctor is a good idea, especially for your own piece of mind. And I hope all turns out well. BUT if it doesn turn out to be bad news, a miscarriage may not happen naturally. You might need intervention. But keep your head up and best of luck.

[Crysi]

Actually a month to wait for miscarriage is not uncommon. I had a missed miscarriage.  Baby stopped growing at 8 wks 1 day at 13 wks 3 days I had my IPS ultrasound (NT scan) and found out. At 14 weeks 4 days they gave me pills to induce my miscarriage. I had no cramping, no spotting, and all my symptoms up untill the pills. That is 6 weeks after I miscarried that my pregnancy continued. The tech didn't take long to do the ultrasound as it is very apparent to them when there is no heart beat.

You said the baby changed location. My baby was lying in the exact same position as yours, I think gravity will ultimately pull the baby downward as yours and mine both were. As well with a missed miscarriage your uterus and placenta continue to develop and there for things look bigger and are in different places.

I also cannot see why the doctor would lie to you. They want the best for you and taking a healthy baby from you is not the best for you or obviously for the unborn baby.

I am hoping that you are right, but I don't want you to hold out false hope as it will hurt that much more should it be a miscarriage.

I am hoping for all the best for you. Please keep us updated.

[luvmy2girls]

I think you are definitely doing the right thing by waiting.  I also know that a mother's intuition means way more than a doctor's opinion.  I also think you are right about waiting a month to see if you do miscarry.  By 13 weeks you should have seen some sort of sign of miscarriage.  The whole situation is just weird and I hope that you do prove the doctor wrong.  Good luck!!

[TiffanyMarie2009]

My mom said they did not measure the baby.

Well if my doctor is proven wrong  with everything I have experienced through his office and him, including things that were not posted in my story because it was not relevent, could result in a lawsuit for him. That is why I think he is lying. Also the conversation with the nurse. Everytime she tried to get me to believe my baby was dead I out-smarted her. (she said it was consistent with the last- i said it wasnt, the baby grew, the baby moved, the yolk sac was there and was getting ready to become part of the placenta. so she moved on to the no heart beat thing- I said they did not even look for the heartbeat...*they did not focus on it for the ones who believe it is just there and you can see it while photographing the "ovaries", for example*....so she moved on....next it was my hormone levels...i out smarted her on that as well...so she decided to call my mother. she tried really hard to keep me from going to a different doctor. no doctor wants a lawsuit and he knows that what he has to face if my baby is proven to be okay.

I would say this ultrasound lasted about 8 minutes. 3 minutes for the external sonogram and 5 for the internal.

The two different locations I have gone through so far are partners. Doctors talk and doctors help other doctors. Whether you believe it or not.

And just because someone elses doctor did not have difficulty finding a heartbeat means nothing towards my story. It just means your doctor obviously isnt a complete jackass, as mine.

Also, my friends heartbeat WAS through an ULTRASOUND!!! at 8 weeks a doppler can not be used. So sorry it did take 30 minutes through an ultrasound.

I am sure of how far along I am.

And I said my baby DID move!!!

You can not mistake your baby tripling in size, no matter if there was difference in equipment or not, which there wasnt.

Claire, I DID say the baby moved!!!!

Thanks slzerbst! You obviously read my post correctly.

And yes, a lot of doctors are cowards and will not admit to a mistake. It makes them look bad. So to cover themselves up and possibly keep them from a lawsuit, depending on the case, they will do their best to convince you that they are right. I am simply not falling for it.

That's why I know my doctor and his nurse sound and act scared of me going to another doctor.

Today I am 10 weeks and 6 days. 9 days passed since the first day I was told I will miscarry.

I will be exactly 13 weeks when going to see my new doctor.

But if I have not miscarried by then, there is a 99% chance the doctor I had before was stupid!!!

I think a month is long enough to wait for a miscarriage. (it isnt likely for it to wait that long)

[slzerbst]

For everyone who's saying that it is "oh so easy" to see the hearbeat at 10wks, well it's not!  My last ultrasound was at 11wks3ds and I could barly see the heartbeat.  However, when my doctor focused in on the heart it was clear.  He was also doing an abdominal scan which I have heard is much harder to see the heartbeat.  However, my baby was bigger, and it only jumped once when it was on the screan, so not all babies are active either!  But I would defintally wait until your next apointment with another doctor to find out for sure.  

There is no reason for the first doctor to lie to you, but if they said that there wasn't a heatbeat and then there was one, it would contradict things and they wouldn't want that.  Remember doctor's are never wrong!

I'm sorry that you're going through all of this, it's terrible that they only spent 5 minutes doing your ultrasound, it's sad rather.  Also I don't like how some doctors make us go see an ultrasound tech instend of a doctor!  I wouldn't like someone else telling me things are wrong with my baby, I would like to hear it from my doctor!  I'm sorry but it's pretty rediculous that you have to hear it from a tech!  And then for your doctor to back that up without doing his own ultrasound and looking for it himself is pretty dumb!  Well goodluck and I hope everything goes well for you!

[clairelou88]

i had a scan at 10weeks 3days and there was a full baby, arms /legs moving everywhere! it seems wierd that it doesnt move, or maybe you just have your dates wrong?

[tiredbuthappy]

i'm sorry you are on this rollercoaster. I agree with the others- you can hold on to hope, but I doubt the doctor is lying to you. My OB has never had to *look* for the heartbeat. As soon as he starts the u/s the very first thing he says immediately is that the hb looks good. He sees it when I can't, and before he even zooms in on anything. I think to a doctor or technician, the HB is evident immediately if the baby can be seen.  You said for your friend it took 30 minutes to find the HB. I suspect that was with a doppler and not an ultrasound. With an ultrasound, if you can see the baby, you can detect the HB. At 10 weeks you should have seen noticable movements in the baby. It might have appeared to be bigger or more formed because it was different equipment being used.

I am so sorry you are going through this. I can't imagine the stress you are experiencing. I HOPE i'm wrong, but it doesn't sound promising. Not to say that a miracle would be out of the question. Are you positive you're 10 1/2 weeks along? Do you have regular cycles?

[nsrchofbaby]

I agree...while I always try to remain positive and know that miracles can happen, I don't understand why someone at a different location would conspire with your dr to lie about it. It doesn't make sense that you would go in to get a second opinion because the first dr/tech didn't find a hb and have a completely different person just not look for that very thing. Strange. I really hope that you get the appropriate care and that something miraculous happens but it doesn't sound promising at all. At this point, whether or not the dr is "looking" for the hb, it should be present. Dr's don't do an ultrasound just to see what they see, they're looking for something specific. Good luck. I'll keep you in my prayers.

[pookie1121]

How long did this ultrasound last?  Did they at least measure the baby?  I know you said it grew, but my doctor usually tells me the measurements and I can see on the lower right side of the screen what the measurement in mm is and what week that calculates out to.

Is there any reason you know of for your doctor to lie to you?

I understand your concern.  I would have a problem to do anything to end my pregnancy too if I was not 100% certain that it was really over....so I understand where you are coming from and agree that you should not do anything at all unless you are convinced.  But I just cant quite understand why your doctor would lie to you as you said you are sure they are lying....

[TiffanyMarie2009]

I believe the baby is okay! I have no idea why they did not look for a heartbeat! It kinda really makes me mad! But I don't need the heartbeat to know everything is okay. I saw the baby and all the changes, so that is what matters to me!! :)

[chantal21]

So it seems like everything may be okay? Why didn't they even look for a heartbeat though? (I am just confused about that) But your right, a baby won't continue to grow if there is no heartbeat. Please keep us posted!

[TiffanyMarie2009]

I went to my ultrasound today. My mom and I both saw that the baby was much bigger. Also, the baby moved from the top, by the placenta, to a laying position in the bottom. The yolk sac had also moved to the top by the placenta. They did not even look for the heartbeat or measure the baby. My mom thought she even saw an arm. But regardless, the baby was much bigger and had moved. Everything looked normal on the screen. My doctor had called and said that this ultrasound was consistent with the first. I know they are lying, because:
In the first ultrasound the yolk sac was on the right in the middle and the baby was much smaller and on the left side towards the top.

Today the baby was much bigger and had moved to the bottom of the uterus in a laying position. Head on the right and feet on the left. The yolk sac had moved up by the placenta.

And I know 100% they did not look for a heartbeat. If the baby was dead it wouldn't be growing!!! No one can say different!!!

As for the flutters I said I had felt, I never implied that it was a "kick!"
I said it was in my uterus and felt like vibrating waves!!! Read closer!!!!

Also, I was told that when you get close to the second trimester your levels are supposed to decline.

I was told of a story by a woman on another forum that her mother went through the same exact thing. The doctor wanted her to take a pill to naturally miscarry, but if her mother would have given up, then that woman would not have been here today leaving me a comment.

Today I am 10 weeks and 5 days.

I have an appointment set up with a different doctor, in a different town and county. I will go there on April 2nd.

Thanks everyone for all of the opinions, including the negative ones. All were greatly appreciated.

[AliRae]

I know how you feel and that next ultrasound feels like a lifetime away. I would say not to go in with any expectations. Hope for the best, but expect the worst. I miscarried at 15 weeks, but it was actually 12 that I "lost the baby" I remember feeling the flutters too during that time but your body feels what the brain tells it to. Not to freak anyone out I will explain: I slipped on ice and fell flat on my back. I felt fine for three weeks until I began bleeding severely. Basicly I lost the baby at 12 weeks and didn't miscarry until 15 weeks. I pray that you and baby are healthy and I know the heartbeat is not always detectable at 10 weeks either. Best wishes and Tuesday will come.

[kikicoates78]

I am sorry that you are dealing with this, it is such an emotional time. ALWAYS get a second opinion. I do agree with the other girls, the "flutters" that you felt were not baby, it is so little right now that you wouldn't come close to feeling it, ecspecially if it's your first, your uterus is too strong, BUT all the other symptoms you have seem totally related to pregnancy.

The drop in numbers are never really a good sign, but there are such things as lab erorrs. My advice to you is pray for the best but brace yourself for the worst, I pray that all turns out well for you. ((HUGS))

[Jem75]

First - always get a second opinion. I have heard many stories of women who were told there was no heartbeat - but there actually was. This could be misdiagnosed for a few reasons - including a titled uterus.

But I would not go by your symptoms or the flutters. It is near impossible to feel the baby at 10 weeks b/c there are so many layers between you and baby (fat, muscle, tissue, placenta, amniotic sack, etc). S/he is jus ttoo small to break through all of those layers at this stage to feel anything. In another 6 weeks it is possible.

I miscarried at 8 weeks and continued to have strong symptoms until my D & C - which was at 9.5 weeks. Your hormones are whacked and even if you naturally are miscarrying, you can still be symptomatic.

hCG dropping is never good and typically results in miscarriage. I am not sure at what point they level off - but they do.

Good luck - be strong and keep us posted. Hoping for a happy outcome for you.

[alaysha]

I think I'm probably going to be the most negative person posting on this... at 10 weeks even at only 5 minutes they should be able to see the heartbeat. Not only that but they can check the blood flow to the baby if they don't see it to make sure that blood is still pumping through it. I had a miscarriage at 6 weeks (supposed to be 9 weeks) and they had me only in the room for a couple of minutes and they detected spot on that it was a miscarriage. Also, not seeing a heartbeat combined with the fact that your levels dropped, even if only slightly doesn't bode well for a viable pregnancy. I am sorry that you are going through all the uncertainty and I hope that you find out good information at your next ultrasound. Hopefully everything will turn out ok.

[pookie1121]

When I was 6w+3d, I went to the doctor for my first visit and found out I was pregnant with twins.  By the first one she saw the heartbeat, but by the second she couldnt find one.  She said she was 90% certain that most likely I would only have one baby, but that I should come back in 3 days and she would check again.  I went back at 6w+6d and sure enough within a minute or two of the U/S it was clear there were two little heartbeats.

I dont mean to be negative, but you asked our opinions so I will give you mine.  
I doubt what you felt that day was really flutters....it would be VERY early to feel flutters.  I do not know if you have any children, but usually you do feel flutters or kicking in a subsequent pregnancy than you would in the first. (and that was definitely the case with me.  I felt my DD first around 19th week and this pregnancy I felt in the 13th week - but not often in the beginning)

In addition, although I do think you should definitely get a 2nd opinion if you are not satisfied with your care or a diagnosis, I do think that at 10 weeks, a HB should have been fairly easy to find within 5 minutes.   The earlier you are, of course the longer it might take to find the HB, but at 10 weeks it should be pretty easy to find...so either your U/S tech sucked or unfortunately there really wasnt a HB for her to detect.  

I really hope that your doctor IS wrong and that your U/S tech just sucked!  And good for you for getting a second opinion ultrasound.  My doctor also told me when I was 13 weeks that she expected both our babies had chromosome problems.  It turned out she was wrong and after 2 wrong diagnosis', I decided to switch doctors.