Interesting article about doctors and vaccinations

[LosingMyMindInGA]

I know we always have posters who are curious about vaccinations, schedules, delayed vaccinations and not doing them altogether.  I ran across this and thought it was interesting, and something that is probably going to become more widespread, therefore, parents should be aware that it is happening. I personally vaccinate all of my kids on the schedule recommended by the APA.

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/parenting/pediatricians-turn-away-kids-who-arent-vaccinated-2509592/

[seattlemom2plus]

It's an interesting discussion indeed.  I don't participate in this but I know of moms that homeschool and they have playgroups etc where they involve their children with one another.  Some women actually that don't vaccinate will purposely expose their child to a recently vaccinated child to gain some of the immunity.  Even for me as a non-vacinated parent question this.  Some say you should stay away from a recently vaccinated person for 7 days to allow for reaction time.

But that being said--- you have no control over who your kids encounter, what they touch, etc.  You can sanitize like crazy but they are still going to come into contact with germs, really vaccinated people, etc.

I can certainly empathize with the issues out in California.  You have a lot of factors involved in that region: larger population, more transients, variety of cultures, etc.  All of this comes into play when you are concerned about immunity.

[Ashelen]

I am wondering....you say that parents can just not bring their kids around your unvaccinated children if they feel that way, but like sweetpea said...that's unrealistic.

Here's a scenario. You're in the grocery store...your child has whooping cough, but is 3 or 4 so it's not as life-threatening...he touches some candy (obviously you don't realize he has the whooping cough yet, but he's contagious). Say the person behind you is holding a 1-month-old who hasn't received the whooping cough booster yet....and that baby flails it's arm out and touches the same candy, with the contagion on it....the baby might rub it's hand on the candy bar for a moment to feel the sensation, then tuck his/her arm back against his/her body...but this is long enough to contract the disease. this baby dies from whooping cough a week later.


there are so many scenarios like this...ones that seem harmless - that mom is a single mom, couldn't avoid bringing her baby out to grocery shop, and you were simply out grocery shopping with your child...but an innocent child died as a result.

I'm sorry, but it's irresponsible to say that other people have the choice to stay away from your children if they feel that way because it's just not true....life just isn't that simple.

However, with that being said, if you still believe that vaccinations do more harm than good, and you can accept the responsibility for putting your children and other children (especially infants, and elderly people) at risk because of your decision..more power to you. I have friends who didn't vaccinate...they are not allowed around my children until they're through the infant shots...and I still love my friends, and respect -to a certain degree- their decision. But would I hold them accountable if one of their children passed the disease on to my newborn because somehow their child contracted it and came in contact with my child? You betcha.

[tiredbuthappy]

Your nephew's reaction to the vaccine is why we should vaccinate our children. It is possible that due to his RARE reaction, he cannot get certain boosters or vaccines. That means that he is susceptible to certain diseases and the more people who choose not to vaccinate, the more likely he is to get a terrible, preventable disease.

[Michele, Katy, TX]

I agree 1000%.  GA....w/ you too.  You bring up such good points as well.

[sweetpea03]

It is very rare to have an extreme reaction to a vaccine and statistical information is what helps doctors and the pharmaceutical companies save lives. The new chicken pox vaccine has cut deaths by this disease/condition in half. If you don't want to believe it, then that is your decision to make. But you really can't argue against the statistical numbers that show how many lives are saved every year by vaccinations, as well as the lives lost because of parents who refuse to vaccinate. Any time a person dies from a preventable disease that data is recorded and then we look at those statistics to see what is going on and how to help prevent more deaths from happening. The numbers can show it all and if you've seen it happen in front of you, then I know you'd think differently. I watched 2 young babies die of Whooping Cough in the last few weeks! This is a preventable disease and these children should not have lost their life because others refuse to vaccinate. There are other people in this world who need people to get vaccinated because they themselves can't get that protection.  

[RissaRissaRoo]

vaccinations are not simple. If they were simple no one would die from them or be harmed.

[RissaRissaRoo]

I choose to delay because I care for my children immune system to build up. I am not concerned about statistics or the thoughts of others pushing the issue.Doctors and scientists are not always correct. I am not concerned about what others feel is right,  I will stick to what I feel is best for my children. I have had a nephew have a life threatening situation with being vaccnated. Vaccination cause harm and it helps, but I refuse to inject these vaccinations into my children until they build their immunity up. If all doctors unite and refuse to serve my children, that is their choice.

[sweetpea03]

I encourage you to do some more research on vaccinations and look at the statistical trends of these preventable diseases. I would even encourage you to talk to doctors at your local hospital and see what they have to say. No one is purposely endangering the general population by not vaccinating, but they are doing so even if they do not mean to. Any time a child or adult is not vaccinated they put themselves at risk and the people around them at risk. It would be unrealistic to ask parents or others if they or their children are vaccinated every time they go near someone. Children under a certain age are at a very high risk of contracting many preventable diseases since they are not old enough to be vaccinated yet. The elderly are also at an increased risk, along with any individual with health issues or other problems that prevent them from being able to be vaccinated. Your choices never just affect you and you alone, they affect everyone around you and whomever you come into contact with. I am glad to see doctors take a stand and push for vaccines. I know many schools near me and other organizations are also beginning to take a stand and push for vaccines. I've seen so many cases of Whooping Cough lately, that is boggles my mind. This is a preventable disease that was almost completely eradicated, but has now come back in this recent outbreak because people refuse to vaccinate themselves and their children. Watch a video on what it was like only a few decades ago when Polio was common. Do we want to go back to that kind of a lifestyle? Or should we protect the general population, especially children and the elderly, with simple vaccinations?  

[RissaRissaRoo]

I delayed my two boys shots and could care less of how anyone feels about it. Who are you to say it is wrong or right? Are the people who say it is wrong God, I think not. I am not attempting to kill or endanger any child. If you do not like it, then remove your child away from mines. As parents we choose to do what is right by our children from our exerience or knowledge. A lot of human beings are so judgemental that they do not even care or notice it. Stop attempting to force something on an individual that they feel is not right. Not all doctors are going to do this. I doubt all doctors would want to care less of a child. If they all decide to, which they will not, would be inhumane. Is it to the point were we are attempting to say which side is better than th other? Just please care for your children and be the best parent you can be for your own. You cannot raise the world's children, give it a rest.

[LosingMyMindInGA]

I agree with you 110%.  

[sweetpea03]

The CDC and other agencies are tracking these diseases. None of these diseases would happen if parents would just vaccinate their children, which is why so many doctors, agencies, schools, etc are pushing very hard to make vaccinations mandatory! As the trend for not vaccinating increases, the number of people who contract these diseases increases as well. California has a larger population than other states in which parents/people are not vaccinating, and we are seeing the results of those choices. Other states, which are more "old fashion" and strong on their stance to vaccinate, see less outbreaks since vaccinations are being done and the people are protected. It breaks my heart to see those patients with preventable diseases. I wanted to yell at the mother of the 3 month old with Whooping Cough as she continues to refuse to vaccinate her other 2 children. I can only imagine that they most likely now have it as well. So sad.  

[Clysta]

I'm not sure if places are targeted, but I do know in my own state (I live in Ohio) things such as whooping cough and such at the highest they've been at in the last 25 years.

[seattlemom2plus]

Ugh LosingMyMindInGA I had not heard about this issue with the circumcision... our first son we circumcised and I despised doing that entirely... I swore to never do it again so our 2nd son has all skin intact and never had any issues.  And if we have a boy as our 3rd child we will not circumcise either.

Send us a link if you can....

I am curious are outbreaks being targeted with regionalism in the U.S.?  Port states see more traffic so was wondering if this was related.

[LosingMyMindInGA]

This just backs up my whole point from my other post about the circumcision ban that is being voted on.  

There are babies DYING from a disease that was once practically eradicated becuase of Vaccines. Now, because of a new age of anti-vaccine parents it is making a comeback.

Yet people are worried about whether or not a parent removes a tiny amount of skin from their sons penis???  It seems priorities are out of wack.  My son having less skin on his penis is NOT going to affect anyone but him, whether it is positive or negative.  Not vaccinating affects that child AND everyone around them....child, adolescent or adult.

This world is so screwed up and it's getting worse by the day.

[jtaylor102481]

I would think the cdc would following a trend of disease like that which was causing. serious issues and deaths.  I know working in health care it sad to see a return of these diseases.  now I again vaccinate my kids because I feel its worth doing. my two year old got whooping cough when she was a month old due being exposed before she got her vaccines and I know it came home within. my oldest because they sent home a note saying there was a child in school that had it. she was hospitalized and had some long term lung issues.  

[seattlemom2plus]

Definitely glad you brought this up with the regional issue in California and whooping cough.  We are not in this state but I have read about the different outbreaks that are occurring in the school system and seen some of the campaign.  Are they noting a trend at all?

[sweetpea03]

I love visiting the PEDs unit at the local hospital, but it's been heart breaking lately with the outbreak of whooping cough we have here in California. Everyone is trying to push for vaccines, so no more innocent lives are lost, but we always get those group of people who refuse and then we get more hospitalizations and more deaths. It's all so sad because it is so easily preventable if people would only vaccinate themselves and their children. I know a select few can't be vaccinated for a number of reasons, but the rest is just a choice and they are putting many, many people at risk. I really don't understand why we are going backwards in this day and age when these diseases can be prevented. Do we really want to go back to when polio was all over the place?? Because that is where we are heading as more people refuse to vaccinate themselves or their children. How sad.

[Ashelen]

I agree sweetpea. There should be NO reason...NO REASON...for things like polio and whooping cough which you can gain a nearly foolproof immunity to after the full series of shots.

Most of the babies who die from whooping cough are too young to have received either one or all of the vaccines to protect them (because babies who are in the process of receiving or who have received the full series just don't die from it..if they DO catch the whooping cough it's mild and only detectable by symptoms, but not deadly). So the unvaccinated individual who gave them the disease is entirely at fault, in my eyes, for exposing that infant (who is too young to be protected yet, either by natural or vaccine immunity)...and thereby responsible for the child's death. Adults also need to get the whooping cough vaccine, by the by - it's not a one shot, lifetime immunity deal even if you catch it. So you could not only kill a child, but an elderly person, who you CAN'T argue has natural defenses. THey don't get breastfed, and they aren't building immunities.. they're losing them.

I know it sounds harsh, but to me...that's how it feels.

[sweetpea03]

Well if you have a health reason as to not get vaccinated, then you shouldn't and it's looked at as a case by case basis. If the negatives outweigh the benefits because of health concerns, then don't vaccinate. BUT just because the adult shouldn't always get vaccinated does not mean you should not vaccinate your children. Children as more at risk for many diseases than adults are and they need to be protected. Not only are they at risk, but they are putting you at risk as well as anyone else they come into contact with. It's not a risk anyone should take, as vaccines provide a good immunity against many life-threatening and disabling diseases that are preventable. The more people who do not vaccinate, as they trend to not vaccinate increases, we are seeing more and more cases of once almost eradicated diseases. We have seen an increase in Polio cases, in Hepatitis cases, in Mumps cases, and an outbreak in Whooping Cough. All of these are preventable and almost no one would have gotten these had people chosen to simply vaccinate. Now there are many children in the local hospital near me with Whooping Cough and 2 babies have already died. Vaccines save lives and rarely do the negatives outweigh the benefits. It's important to do a research from reliable sources and talk to your doctor about how to best stay healthy.  

[seattlemom2plus]

I personally have never had a flu shot neither has anyone in my family.  My family doctor however told me years ago back when I was around 18 or so (almost 20 yrs ago) when the flu vaccines were just coming out that I would not be a good candidate for those.  Mostly because I am very sensitive to anything, medications, vitamins, etc.  so I primarily rely on herbal treatments if needed.  I can take the occasional antibiotic of penicillin when needed, but that had only been twice in the last 25 years and for a tooth infection.  So I definitely think too it depends on the person too.

[tiredbuthappy]

I know you can still get shingles as an adult :)
I wasn't saying that it eliminates the possibility, but the incidence of shingles is on the rise. Once you have the virus, it's always there. Repeated exposure to the virus keeps the immune system "alert" to it and helps keep it in check. Shingles often resurfaces when one's immune system is weaker, due to stress, age, illness, etc. Of course some people may get it with none of those obvious factors in place.

It is important to note that I would not apply this theory to most other illnesses. I am actually very pro-immunizations in general. It is just this particular one that we are not too crazy about. Since the risks of the disease are not as great as many other illnesses, we are not sure that this vaccine is as beneficial. You don't willingly expose yourself to whooping cough to build up your immunity. Even if it doesn't affect you as an adult severely, it can kill an infant if you pass it along to it. We are so pro-vaccine, we made sure to give the adults in the family boosters of the DTaP when we had kids to protect the newborns. We get the flu vaccine annually, all of us. In fact, my husband is licensed immunizer and administers hundreds of vaccines yearly. Part of his responsibility is to receive reports of complications directly from the patients and to report them. So it is not like we are uneducated or blindly immunize (or refuse to immunize).

[sweetpea03]

Even if you got the chicken pox as a child, you can still easily get shingles as an adult. Many adults do and it's not uncommon to happen. It doesn't give you immunity/protection from shingles. My friend had the chicken pox twice as a child(once as a baby, so couldn't build up immunity) and now has had shingles as an adult. A bunch of friends went to get the vaccine after her nasty case of shingles.

[seattlemom2plus]

Excellent information tiredbuthappy.  I do find that to be interesting with the chicken pox vaccine.  And yes occurrences are less frequent indeed.  I know for myself I was exposed to chicken pox on several occasions when I was younger, but it wasn't until I was actually 18 that I had an outbreak.  I do think my body had developed a gradual immunity from exposure until at one point it caught up with me, still the outbreak was not severe.

[tiredbuthappy]

My state requires children to have the varicella vaccine in order to go to preschool or daycare.

The reason why we would prefer our kids get the illness is because the vaccine does not guarantee protection and they are discovering that the protection does not last long. They now recommend boosters.

I do understand why it is important though, which is why we will not fight it. I am a preschool teacher and when I was pregnant there were cases in school. I didn't have to worry because I had it as a child, but I would have been concerned if i hadn't. Chicken pox, while harmless in most cases, can in some cases cause serious problems.

Our concern with chicken pox was long-term immunity, which we feel the shot may not give. Also, the shot may be contributing to an increase in shingles cases. When we were little, most if us got the chicken pox. Because everyone got it back then, as we were growing up we were re-exposed to the illness regularly. While most of us didn't get the illness again, it gave our immune systems a natural boost and reminded the body what the illness looked like. These days people aren't exposed to the virus as frequently, so the body may forget, which can lead to shingles flair-ups. That's why there is a big push to give seniors the shingles shot (which is the same vaccine as the varicella we give children).