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Accept the "other" woman?
I'm having a hard time deciding what to be accepting of and what to take as a red flag warning. My BF has a female friend; he's known her for 12 years. She has several severe mood and personality disorders and is very attached to him. She emotionally, physically, and verbally abuses him on a daily basis, and sexually assaulted him once (well that's the only one I know about). She is obsessively in love with him and accuses him of sleeping with every girl in the neighborhood. She screams, yells, and swears at him whenever she has a problem. He accepts this. He thinks he is being "strong" because he doesn't yell back (although many times he does). In my opinion, she has been a stumbling block in our relationship from the beginning. However he refuses to end the relationship. He flies to see her often (she moved a year ago) and they talk every day. He knows how uncomfortable I am with this but says it's his responsibility to fix her and help her and if he cuts it off with her she will kill herself and it'll be his fault. So I have been instructed by him to accept it and be understanding and supportive. He does nothing to stop the abuse. He says she's "family" (she's not related to him) and it's no different that him visiting or talking to his sister (well his sister doesn't abuse him and isn't obsessively in love with him).
Should I just accept this? Am I being to harsh when I express my discomfort with their relationship? Should I smile and kiss him goodbye when he goes to see her and tells me he'll have to shut his phone off and not talk to me because she wouldn't understand? Should I be okay with all the abuse she hands him? Am I a fool to think our relationship can go anywhere with her in the picture and his refusal to draw any boundary lines with her?
Anyone experienced anything similar? Any advice? Thanks.
Should I just accept this? Am I being to harsh when I express my discomfort with their relationship? Should I smile and kiss him goodbye when he goes to see her and tells me he'll have to shut his phone off and not talk to me because she wouldn't understand? Should I be okay with all the abuse she hands him? Am I a fool to think our relationship can go anywhere with her in the picture and his refusal to draw any boundary lines with her?
Anyone experienced anything similar? Any advice? Thanks.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Dear Paramed,
It sounds like you're looking for feedback from the community. This is separate, the so-called expert forum.
Please let me know whether you want my input rather than the community's.
Sincerely,
Dr. P.
=========
Followup:
Dear Paramed,
Bad news. From what you’ve said, the woman appears quite disturbed, and your boyfriend either also is, or is risking psychological danger to himself or the relationship with you, by staying with her. Your portrayal suggests classic signs of BPD, and if she’s also seriously bipolar it’s the diagnostic combo from Hell. A caveat: I can’t say this is definitely the case, not having seen her, so it’s a big “if.”
But such a situation, if it obtains, would signal that your man is at genuine risk of ultimately drowning in the morass of her pathology. That’s how these folks are. The pull they exert over other people is “gravitational”, like the pull of a black hole in space. And you know what happens to matter pulled in there . . . I reference Fatal Attraction.
You ask: “Am I a fool to think our relationship can go anywhere with her in the picture and his refusal to draw any boundary lines with her?” Yes. Not only that, if you stick around (and again, to repeat myself, you’d have to validate your provisional “diagnosis” of her) you’ll quite likely wind up either presiding over a circus of pathology, or outside your own relationship, or having the other woman crazily and possibly destructively circling. At worst, she could ultimately endanger one or both of you.
If it were me, I’d make the dealing with and resolving of this pathological situation a condition for continuing the relationship. Obviously, he isn’t either aware or strong enough to just detach immediately. But I’d put him on notice that if he didn’t take forthright, if not emergency action (with all the help that could be mustered) to disentangle, I’D BE OUT OF THERE!
It’s great that he is going to counseling, but the the counselor ABSOLUTELY MUST deal centrally with this question of infatuation with this disturbed person. I understand it may take some time, but it MUST remain central, and the work should be productive, for you to stay in the picture. I’d also consider having a single session with his therapist and him, in which I’d voice my precondition for remaining. However, I’d wait till he had established a solid therapy relationship.
By the way, there is no “right time” to get away from a person like this woman. It will be messy no matter when the separation is made. It will help if she has a therapist of her own, and other supports. Action may trigger suicide threats or attempts. This kind of thing may be the cost of your/his freedom. Remember, such people, in their frantic emptiness, attempt to enslave others. No dice!
My guess is that your man either had someone like her centrally and early in his life, or that she’s reflecting/embodying some particular piece of his unfinished business. Otherwise, why is he still there? It’s not so much that he’s “co-dependent” as that he has these personal issues that draw him to her. Somehow, I’d guess this testing of will to withstand her is involved. However, If he can get a sense of his unique blind spot, he may be able to disentangle reasonably soon, even if he hasn’t done all his work on the issues that created it.
Finally, in terms of your own psychology, it’s unclear why you’ve put up with this situation, this long. Would you think about this?
IF this woman is as you portray her, it’s serious business, and needs a correspondingly serious plan.
Sincerely,
Dr. P.
--------
2nd Follow-up:
Dear Paramed,
Great! And good luck in your future relationships. Next time, I hope you'll do the research around the personality of your guy, so that you have a better idea what you're dealing with.
For some ideas about the things to look for, see my web site, smartrelationshipdecisions.com. It's a decent start.
Sincerely,
Dr. P.
It sounds like you're looking for feedback from the community. This is separate, the so-called expert forum.
Please let me know whether you want my input rather than the community's.
Sincerely,
Dr. P.
=========
Followup:
Dear Paramed,
Bad news. From what you’ve said, the woman appears quite disturbed, and your boyfriend either also is, or is risking psychological danger to himself or the relationship with you, by staying with her. Your portrayal suggests classic signs of BPD, and if she’s also seriously bipolar it’s the diagnostic combo from Hell. A caveat: I can’t say this is definitely the case, not having seen her, so it’s a big “if.”
But such a situation, if it obtains, would signal that your man is at genuine risk of ultimately drowning in the morass of her pathology. That’s how these folks are. The pull they exert over other people is “gravitational”, like the pull of a black hole in space. And you know what happens to matter pulled in there . . . I reference Fatal Attraction.
You ask: “Am I a fool to think our relationship can go anywhere with her in the picture and his refusal to draw any boundary lines with her?” Yes. Not only that, if you stick around (and again, to repeat myself, you’d have to validate your provisional “diagnosis” of her) you’ll quite likely wind up either presiding over a circus of pathology, or outside your own relationship, or having the other woman crazily and possibly destructively circling. At worst, she could ultimately endanger one or both of you.
If it were me, I’d make the dealing with and resolving of this pathological situation a condition for continuing the relationship. Obviously, he isn’t either aware or strong enough to just detach immediately. But I’d put him on notice that if he didn’t take forthright, if not emergency action (with all the help that could be mustered) to disentangle, I’D BE OUT OF THERE!
It’s great that he is going to counseling, but the the counselor ABSOLUTELY MUST deal centrally with this question of infatuation with this disturbed person. I understand it may take some time, but it MUST remain central, and the work should be productive, for you to stay in the picture. I’d also consider having a single session with his therapist and him, in which I’d voice my precondition for remaining. However, I’d wait till he had established a solid therapy relationship.
By the way, there is no “right time” to get away from a person like this woman. It will be messy no matter when the separation is made. It will help if she has a therapist of her own, and other supports. Action may trigger suicide threats or attempts. This kind of thing may be the cost of your/his freedom. Remember, such people, in their frantic emptiness, attempt to enslave others. No dice!
My guess is that your man either had someone like her centrally and early in his life, or that she’s reflecting/embodying some particular piece of his unfinished business. Otherwise, why is he still there? It’s not so much that he’s “co-dependent” as that he has these personal issues that draw him to her. Somehow, I’d guess this testing of will to withstand her is involved. However, If he can get a sense of his unique blind spot, he may be able to disentangle reasonably soon, even if he hasn’t done all his work on the issues that created it.
Finally, in terms of your own psychology, it’s unclear why you’ve put up with this situation, this long. Would you think about this?
IF this woman is as you portray her, it’s serious business, and needs a correspondingly serious plan.
Sincerely,
Dr. P.
--------
2nd Follow-up:
Dear Paramed,
Great! And good luck in your future relationships. Next time, I hope you'll do the research around the personality of your guy, so that you have a better idea what you're dealing with.
For some ideas about the things to look for, see my web site, smartrelationshipdecisions.com. It's a decent start.
Sincerely,
Dr. P.
Thank you very much for your assessment. I guess I've let him fool me into thinking he was letting go of her, which all the while he was not. At this point, I have stopped seeing him and am on my own. I need to take care of myself now. Thanks again!
Hi;
Yes, I guess I should have posted in the community. However, I would appreciate some input on whether people tend to "pick up" certain behaviors of other people with whom they interact closely. For example, my boyfriend's friend, the "other woman," has Borderline Personality Disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Bipolar Disorder, and is a very difficult person for anyone to be around for long, due to the fact that she latches on and flies into a rage when she senses rejection. I see many of these tendencies in my boyfriend, although he denies it. I wonder if it's a co-dependency. He seems to be proud of the fact that he can "withstand" her abuse, however I can see that it has damaged him to the point where he cannot function in a "normal" adult romantic relationship. He constantly shies away from perceived rejection and then lashes out at me when I don't respond as he feels I should. So much of his behavior mirrors hers.
Any input on the aforementioned behavioral disorders or co-dependency would be appreciated, for my own educational benefit. I am not sure I can continue to support my boyfriend, although I dearly wish he would follow through with counseling (he's gone a couple times).
Thank you, Dr. P.
Yes, I guess I should have posted in the community. However, I would appreciate some input on whether people tend to "pick up" certain behaviors of other people with whom they interact closely. For example, my boyfriend's friend, the "other woman," has Borderline Personality Disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Bipolar Disorder, and is a very difficult person for anyone to be around for long, due to the fact that she latches on and flies into a rage when she senses rejection. I see many of these tendencies in my boyfriend, although he denies it. I wonder if it's a co-dependency. He seems to be proud of the fact that he can "withstand" her abuse, however I can see that it has damaged him to the point where he cannot function in a "normal" adult romantic relationship. He constantly shies away from perceived rejection and then lashes out at me when I don't respond as he feels I should. So much of his behavior mirrors hers.
Any input on the aforementioned behavioral disorders or co-dependency would be appreciated, for my own educational benefit. I am not sure I can continue to support my boyfriend, although I dearly wish he would follow through with counseling (he's gone a couple times).
Thank you, Dr. P.
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