My husband's co-workers were teasing him about not going for massages with them. He works in a Wall Street firm and needless to say the tension is crazy. Apparently these guys go for massages and the girls massage everything causing the men to ejaculate. My husband and I think this is wrong if you are married. Well you can not believe the debate this caused. Inno way are we bashing massages. I too go for them - but there is a line and we think that kind of massage is cheating. What do you men and woman think - are we prudes???
my answer is simple. if i'm not in the mood...i'm not doing anything. if he's not in the mood...he's not doing anything. simple as that. if i don't want to do something...i'm not going to. if he doesn't want to do something...he's not going to. we RESPECT the fact that the other doesn't want to have sex, oral sex or any form of sex. what does the other person do? nothing. whatever we were doing prior to. do we sex "full massages"? no. just like if he's hungry and i'm not...he gets himself something to eat. he doesn't expect me to get up and stop working or taking care of the kids to fix HIM something to eat. just like if I am hungry I get MYSELF something to eat. i don't tell him, demand or ask him to stop what he's doing to get it for me. i'm self sufficient as is he. we don't depend on each other for every little thing.
I just realized that I am lucky that my husband sees me as an equal with feelings as valid as his.
In the "language of love" as I've read it, intimacy means more than just sex. And if one does not get their needs met in a regular way, it is often their fault as well as their partners. Perhaps they don't give what their partner needs so that they are in the mood.
Again, I'm so luck to have my husband and the healthy relationship that we have.
This is a hotly contested topic. I've never seen threads that have gone on for 3 years. I think most of the women need to have a reality check. Ashleen seems like the only one that is reasonable. I hope her marriage continues to thrive. The other women appear to go back to the barter and reward system. Don't think that because your guy hasn't pressured you for a couple of weeks or a month for sex that he's not thinking about it. Even if the guy is "respecting" your space the more distant memory your body is to him the more appetising other women appear to him. He may not act on it but you are certainly giving him a reason to look elsewhere. The idea that once a month is a reasonable amount of time is absurd.
And Yes going to a massage parlor is cheating. But a wife that doesn't recognize her husbands needs is a *****!
Who said once a month was acceptable? I don't think that is at all. But how about a man who can understand that when a woman is pregnant her hormones aren't exactly craving sex. Shouldn't he respect that? Why is it all about men and their needs? What about what women need? But that never seems to matter right? I think having sex a few times a week is satisfactory. Sex should be about passion and intimacy, not about just the act itself. Maybe if some husband's realized that and didn't just selfishly think of their own needs, sex wouldn't feel like a chore but more of a desire for women.
I think this post simply proves that Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars. We simply think with different parts of the anatomy it seems. Valid points on both sides of the fence. I do know this much, and that is if sex is the only common ground a couple has, watch out because as you get older your gonna need something other than what is between ones legs to survive. Sex between two consenting people with the same goal in mind is great! Nothing better! If it is one sided for any reason, it fails to be rewarding and ultimately will slack off. Regardless of the reason.Who really wants to have sex with an unwilling partner? Use the hand. And going to a full massage parlor to get your jollies says something about the person going to get it done moreso than the practice itself. IMO
I think people only justify things if they find it is something they might do. That is a question within themselves.
Having a loving marriage goes both ways and I certainly wouldn't want my husband to suffer if I wasn't in the mood . . . all the time. But he should divorce me before he goes off and messes around with another women. He made a committment to remain failthful. Blaming a spouse for his/her spouses infidelity is really shifting the blame in my opinion.
And hey------------ I think calling people that don't agree with you the B word is not called for.
It just boils my blood feeling like women have to be always fulfilling their duties...if that's what it's called....without any type of reciprocation for it or without men really giving women what they need. Relationships are a two way street and both have to give 100% full effort. Not just us alone. I wouldn't want to give my man sex if I wasn't receiving any love, affection or help. It's not about barter system, it's about feeling appreciated and not alone. If more men did that, then I guarantee you, women would be more ready and willing to want to have sex.
You missed jjbunning's point. I think "once a month" is hyperbole. The point is that sex is important for a man and that when it becomes a rare occurrence other areas of the relationship will break down rapidly. Also, the definition of rare depends on the couple but in my world once a week is okay. However, any extended period beyond this amount of time and I'm not okay. A guy will not want to cuddle, listen, or be "understanding". Newsflash, sex is important to a healthy relationship. What else makes a monogamous relationship different from just being roommates?
Also, you used the term "duty". I call it keeping each other happy. My wife has things she likes & I do it because duty calls and I want her to be happy.
You also said, " I wouldn't want to give my man sex..." Again, you proved jjbunnings point regarding a "reward & barter" system.
By the way, if your guy is pressuring you for sex when your pregnant then he's got issues. Sounds like you were giving us some insight into your situation.
This old post got WAY off topic! LOL! Well since I'm already here, I'll bite. Back to the OP's question of whether a full massage with happy ending is cheating, I would definitely say YES. I love to give my husband massages, along with happy endings. Not every massage ends that way, but I like to massage his strong body and it's a major turn on to both of us. We joke about massage parlors that offer these type of services and sometimes use it to our advantage (role play).
As for sex being an obligation or duty, I don't think that is the way Mami meant it. It only becomes an obligation or duty if she feels she has to do it and isn't in the mood at that time. She's a trooper because her man gets it a lot more than mine does! LOL!!!! I wish I could get it as often but with us working different shifts, it just isn't possible =(
Lol thanks imanaddict. I guess my point was missed. I said it goes both ways. I can't see myself giving my man sex if I'm being mistreated or ignored. If he's plopped infront of the tv when he's home and then jumps in bed expecting to get some well no thanks. Women need affection and love and attention to get in the mood. So that was my point.
if the woman gets her "full" massage, it wouldn't bother 90% of men, i guarantee you. this is the problem, a stark double standard. a husband would be happy that his wife is having a happy ending (resulting in her being more "pleased" in life, literally) and he would not mind in the least. strange the way human nature works. not always equal or similar in perspective, one gender to the other.
ok my question is, is there anyone out here that has had a husband that has been getting a full body massage, that has not been in agreement with it stay in the relatioship and how do you handle it. My husband has been going for quite a while with a happy ending. I say that is cheating and he says it is not. My view is when you are married that part of your body is for your partner not someone else that knows what you like and do not like. He has been having a massage by the same person and he gets to massage her also. So I really feel betrayed and hurt. I really love him and he says he is not going to go anymore but then I find out he still is. We have gone a few time together as a couple so I could see where actually happens. Its not really that bad because all he gets is a happy ending but in my book that is still cheating when you can touch and be touched by someone else. Just want to chat with someone that has been down this same road. We have been together for 18 yrs and yes we have sex quite a bit at least 3 or 4 times a week sometimes more so he cannot say I am not taking care of him. Just do not understand why men feel they have to have a massage and keep it a secret. If nothing is going on why do you have to hide it.
I agree with Rockrose. Yep, cheating it is----------- and when a spouse confronts another about it and they say they won't do it anymore but still do behind their back . . . it speaks to more than cheating. It is evidence of a significant marriage problem. Good luck sorting it out.
massage can leads to sins that a man can't live. Hypothetically speaking, the heat of the moment makes a man weak and can lead to more than a handjob. Only with an understanding wife and repentance, can a man achieve a path to a happy life; when you make a mistake once you must never return to it. The massage therapist is about business and can not give anything better than what a wife can offer. Take it from me (a man).... you might save yourself and others from unecessary pain.
Ha, i didn't read all of the replies, as i think the answer is a resounding, YES this is cheating. It grosses me out to think that a bunch of men are standing in line together, and having sex trade worker give them a "release". How disgusting is that? I feel so sorry for the sex trade workers, who had to be in a really tough place to make the decision to do this for a living. Imagine how filthy these poor women feel about themselves? Something went terribly wrong for them to objectify themselves in this manner. These guys need to look at these women as if they were their daughters, and refrain from destroying them further with their selfish needs. I can't believe that this is considered bonding for men? The fact that this is up for debate shocks me further. How could anyone justify this behavior and how can it be part of a business strategy? I can see getting together for team building but this is just GROSS. More people should stand up and be heard, maybe there will be less peer pressure that way. I think i would feel just as filthy as the sex trade worker. Too bad that money didn't go into the Christmas fund for disadvantaged youth!! Shame on them!!
I am a 41 year old male...married for 11 years with 2 kids. Over the last 11 years my spouse and I have rarely had sex more than once a week. More often than not it is at best once a month if things work out. The duration is getting longer as time goes on. In my opinion I have a very strong sex drive....so i masturbate to get the release. As I turned 40..something inside me tells me that time is running out . I have never had intercourse with any woman other than my wife. In fact, I was a virgin till I married her. Starting 2010 ....i have had 3 hand jobs as part of a full body massage every year...so a total of 9 incidents in the last 3 years. In 5 of those I have touched another woman intimately..breasts, never kissed any of them on the lips though. I have never had intercourse with any woman. I feel real guilty after these sessions since I think I have cheated her. I do not want to hold my spouse responsible for my actions since she is a very sweet person; I was fully aware of what I am doing...so no excuses for my behavior. Keen to get the views of men and women on this forum regarding my situation.
My boyfriend, of almost a year, just did this. He told me about it on New Years Eve He says it was a mistake, and that he won't do it again but doesn't really seem to think it was that serious. He is acting like I'm making mountains out of molehills.
I loved him a lot, and so want to forgive him, but I won't . Because, I don't want to be in a relationship where this keeps happening. And with his attitude, I can see that it will. Because, he will just expect me to get over it again, if he does it again.
I just want reassurance, especially from the men out there, that a) I'm not making a fuss about nothing and b) this is NOT the norm for people in relationships. And so, I should let him go, and hold out for the kind of relationship that I want.
I think people should ultimately evaluate their own conscience and situation and decide what is right for them; nobody will ever see eye to eye on a topic like this, especially men & women.
Since I am a man with a competent level of experience, I will attempt to speak for them.
For men, its not "the lack of sex". All men are highly-skilled masturbaters; they've carefully honed that skill since puberty. They can do it any time, and almost anywhere. Masturbation is a temporary release for us. BTW, most married men who masturbate are not fantasizing about their wives when they do it. Does that mean they are cheating?
What it comes down to, its more the fantasy and craving of having that awesome orgasm that the random, run of the mill masturbation or sex with their chosen partner no longer gives them. It varies in degrees, depending on the man, his drive, and how many mind-blowing orgasms he has experienced in his life. A man never knows how awesome the orgasm will be during the period in which he is stimulated; he can only hope and attempt to create the best possibility of it happening. Once a man does have a mind-blowing orgasm, he will want to do anything he can to experience it again. The chemicals and sensations released are mind-blowing; better than any drug. Problem is, those orgasms are so random, and I assume they vary with each man. Men never talk about this kind of thing, so there is little knowledge or baseline. I would compare it to a professional surfer's yearning to find that next bigger wave or a crack addict looking for the same high they got when they first smoked.
Women think it is a moral issue and a cop-out, but men are simply hardwired this way. They are biologically wired with a drive to reproduce with as many partners as possible. This is a survival function that once kept our species alive, and still remains present. Throw all of your bible and moral **** out of the window.
Women will never ever fully understand the intensity or amplitude of the random sexual cravings that men have, and most men will not take the time to explain it to them, for obvious reasons. Men are supposed to remain morally monogamous, yet WOW, we see men of the highest social and moral caliber deviate from this all of the time.
I think people should focus more on what points make a great marriage and relationship, rather than the semantics of what ruin them. A man or woman who are great parents to their children and provide for each other unconditionally speaks much greater volumes. In a perfect world, we would all have what we want in every aspect, and what defines "perfect" only becomes a longer list as society evolves.
Hi there. Sorry I missed your post as you tagged it onto a very old thread. I would not continue a dating relationship with someone who did this and minimized it. Dating is for sorting out who you want a long term commitment with and who you don't. He's shown you that he will cross a boundary you are not comfortable with and think nothing of it or own it as a problem to the relationship. If you allow it to be 'no big deal'---- you will be condoning it and then will have to live with a man that allows another woman to release him sexually.
i'd not consider a long term relationship with someone under those circumstances. I do hold my partner/husband to high standards and haven't been disappointed yet. So, please know that it is okay to say something is not alright by you. It would be a deal breaker for me. good luck
What a bunch of crap! There is NO justification for any man to allow another woman to perform any sexual act on him when he is married. Plain and simply it is cheating. It is adultery. It is breaking trust with his wife. It is hurting the one person in the world he shouldn't be hurting. More than that it is a blatant lack of respect for his wife.
I just found out my husband not only was going to massage parlors for a "happy ending" these past 5 years but he is also continuously watching porn on TV, his home computer and his work computer (he is in a private office so no one sees it).At first he wouldn't admit it.He said he never did anything wrong. But after showing him the proof of his infidelity (yes, that's exactly what it is) he had no choice but to come clean. I told him that I don't know if I will ever be able to place my trust in him again and that is the absolute truth. Yes, I still love him but that doesn't alter the fact that I will always be suspicious and extremely vigilant if I decide to stay in my marriage. Since it only happened 2 weeks ago,I am still in a state of disbelief since I trusted him these past 35 years and can't believe that all the times he was in bed with me he might have been with someone else earlier that day. He keeps saying he doesn't know why he did it and will never do it again but I can't seem to believe him. He can't even stop smoking cold turkey so I doubt he'll stop this cold turkey. But one thing is for sure. If I find out there is any more that he didn't come clean about, our marriage will definitely be over. No ifs, ands, or buts.
No one apparently thinks that women get O's from a massage....pathetic. So essentially getting a massage in general is cheating right? Men also can ejaculate without being physically touched in the nether regions. Are they then also cheating?
So, then would imagining a hot male/female while masterbating also be cheating?
Then I would have to say we are all guilty of cheating....
No wonder the divorce rate is so high.
I've gotten many a massage and no, never had an orgasm. Not part of what I paid for. In your fatasies, perhaps that is how you see massage but in reality, I'm just trying to relax and work the kinks out of my shoulders.
Only some massages end in a happy ending--- and when they do, it's cheating in my opinion.
I can't decide if a happy ending is cheating. My wife would certainly not approve, but she is also convinced they are included as part of my non-sexual massages. I've concluded this is a "don't ask, don't tell" situation and have, on occassion, enjoyed the extra service (from alternate massage providers).
I love my wife and would never want to hurt her. I also committed to a manogamous relationship when we got married (actually a number of years prior). I did not, however, commit to a life of celebacy. She simply doesn't want sex. On the rare occassion she agrees, it is obvious she doesn't really want to be there. I believe she loves me, she just doesn't enjoy the activity. Certainly oral and manual stimuation are off the menu. Missionary or nothing is her motto.
I wish side service was not necessary - being with my wife is better. I also don't like witholding information and sneaking. Unfortunately, this seems to be my only option. Does it step outside of my commitment to her? I'm not sure. If she refuses my requests, should I simply never enjoy such experiences for the rest of my life? I'm not talking about a few days, weeks, or even months. Sex occurs a couple times a year and side-activities don't. I've communicated this dissatisfaction many times over, but if her desire is not there, agreeing to go along isn't fulfilling. I'm not sharing my heart and emotions with others. The idea of another/different woman is of no interest to me. I'm simply finding attention for otherwise neglected needs.
Many posters here have commented that masturbation should be an acceptable substitute. Yes, this is good when an imbalance in drive exists, but it is not a good long-term solution. Hundreds of self-pleasuring experiences with no variety between is insufficient.
Many posters have mentioned respecting a wife's feelings and if she is tired or not in the mood to get over it. Again, this is fine for a while, but not a good long-term mindset. My experience has been one of growing frustration and resentment. After days/weeks/months of everything else being more important, I find it hard to put priority to her desires. I find myself too tired for the long list of chores she'd like completed and disinterested in spending $150 for dinner out and a babysitter. It seems all of her desires take a front seat, and my single, ongoing request doesn't even have a place in the trunk.
For those who say we may not be compatible and shouldn't be together, this seems like a horrible solution. I committed to a life with her and would not want to change it. A lack of sex is certainly no reason to turn my back on her and destroy the good home enjoyed by our children. Doing so would seem selfish and immature. I also believe this is not what she wants.
In the end, it seems the black/white interpretation enjoyed by many is that I should be celebate or leave my family in the name of sexual gratification. These are very poor options. As a result, I maintain a loving relationship and good home for our family and once in a while have a stranger rub my penis for a few minutes. No harm done.
I think that if it weren't cheating, you'd feel fine telling your wife frustrated husband. Since you don't . . . yep. It's cheating. Plenty of harm is done when you have sexual contact with someone and have to hide it from your wife.
so my suggestion is to ask her tonight over dinner if she minds you going to multiple places and letting multiple women get you off. Let us know what she says.
Also wanted to comment that if there is dissatisfaction between partners, that is a relationship issue. The pair needs to compromise. Counseling may help you move past that issue as well as address whatever other issues are going on in the relationship. good luck
I know what she would say. She doesn't approve but also believes a happy ending is a part of male massage and does encourage me to go without discussing the details. This still does not resolve whether it is cheating.
If a spouse has exclusive privilges but he or she refuses an activity for many years, I propose the spouse looses that exclusivity. I'm not talking about engaging in activity that crosses normal boundaries. These are activities theat were commonplace before marriage then subsided and now don't occur.
Every relationship has troubles and requires hard work to make it last. We are generally quite happy together and have little strife beyond normal conflict. On this issue, however, there is no compromise. She won't do it. I've tried many approaches and "you-scratch-my-back-I'll-scratch-yours" agreements. All fail. I could try negative compromise and play ***-for-tat - if you don't do this than I won't do that, but this is an unhealthy stance. This all boils down to either accepting this void for the next several decades or finding it on the outside.
Understand that I'm not thrilled with this situation. Compromise won't happen. Counseling won't happen since she disagrees there is cause for concern. She also would never agree to have frank conversations about sex with a 3rd party.
Life isn't perfect and it isn't black and white. This is by no means a textbook aspect of marriage, but it seems to work and keeps this issue at bay. In the end, it seems less like cheating and more like an imperfect solution to an otherwise unresolvable issue.
Vance, I'm aware of the human rights concerns related to sex workers and agree this problem exists. I also am quite certain that this does not represent the entire population of these professionals. It is further clear that, while the governing bodies overseeing massage therapists try very hard to eliminate happy endings, many certified massage therapists readily offer the service and view it as beneficial to the process. It is quite common in many other cultures. There are extended debates about of these matters on topix.com (and elsewhere) but they delve well beyond the scope of this discussion.
Special Mom, your last response is basically "I don't believe you." That it certainly your option, but it doesn't change reality. Even if the story weren't true (but it is), there seems to be no better solution at this time. Unfortunately mine is not uncommon and there are many more like me. A good friend of mine hasn't received oral sex in four years. He and his wife (and family) are otherwise happy. Should he just accept it, walk away and certainly destroy his family, or indulge in a rare, minor transgression that utlimately has no consequence?
I'll be honest. No. I don't believe you've been forthright with your wife on this subject and if you were, she'd be cool with it. I don't believe she thinks you are having a paid prostitute (which that is all that is) get you off. Not much different than cruising the alley and picking up someone to do it in your car for 20 bucks.
I think couples should work on intimacy issues to save the marriage or yes, they should break up rather than one of the pair being sexually active with sex workers.
It certainly is your option to minimize what you do away from your wife and to justify it as you see fit. But I would say that most women would not be comfortable with this and I'd bet your wife is included in that. You basically say so even though you then backtrack.
good luck but I do recommend some therapy for you two to work on why you can't have a fulfilling sex life within your marriage.
I'll add, if this is 'simply' a physical release (no emotion involved for "another woman") then, why not go 'solo' ??
and Your good friend who hasn't had "oral" sex in 4 years? OMGolly, what kind of sacrifice is that!!?? I truely fail to see that as a 'sacrifice' a loving Man makes for a Woman who isn't interested in going there - whatever Her feeling is about that, it's valid to Her and should be respected.
My other thought is any thing You have to sneak and hide, lie and cheat, withold from Your Wife is cheating. You would expect the same respect from Her.
You are trying to find a way to justify cheating and You can't do that. You can dress up and put a hat on a dog but it's still a dog.
I have a specific question, that is similar, but not the same as the initial posed question. So I live in an area where a yoga studio offers a 2 times a month workshop called "men massaging men" or "MMM". I've been getting the emails since I was single and never actually went and then the other day (now married) I opened an old email address I used to have and saw that I was still being invited. Here are the specifics.
*The premise is that the massage is sensual and therapeutic and is not supposed to surround release, but I imagine there is some testicular massage and penis massage.
*You trade 3 times with other men who have paid for the event ($30) and a lot of them are trained CMT, as am I.
*I have bisexual tendencies, but am not truly looking at this as a means to satisfy my sexual thirst, but I will enjoy the touching and massage.
*My wife and I had a kid and now she's in a funk about her body, my body, working a new job with salary hours and overall stress. I try and surprise her with concerts and I even have a night of pottery planned, with dinner and tonight I asked her about doing a couples massage seminar and she had no interest. We haven't had sex in a while, which I leave up to her, because I do not believe in "demanding" or guilting my way into sex. I do not want to *** at the workshop and will maybe even ask my partners to avoid lingam massage, but at what point would this be cheating, if I chose to go to these and not tell her? What if I tell her I am going to the group massage, because she knows I am a trained CMT and I do not say that the massage practice is led in a sensual, but not necessarily sexual way? In the invite, it states that "Though we do not encourage release, it sometimes happens. We clean up and we move on". With all that you know so far, is there any way for me to attend this and not be cheating, because secondarily, I am afraid she will begin to think I am outright gay, which I am not and believe me, I have tried to see if maybe I was, but I know, after years of experimenting on different levels, that I am simply bisexual, because I am not afraid of male-to-male contact, but I do not look at men sexually most often. She has an underlying fear of dating a secretly gay man as it is, because of the TV she watches and the shows that have had a similar scenario. Please help and please do not use this as an opportunity to judge a stranger online. I can handle a truth I may not like very much.
It's not about what you think it's about how the person doing it feels.
What is the big deal to go to a massage parlor - and a happy ending.
Could be what the doctor order to keep a marriage going. If you think people 50 years ago did not do anything like this you are mistaken. It wasn't out in the open but it was happening then as it is now.
I have a wife that has lost interest in sex. I'm still attracted to her, but she continually shuts me down. We average brief sex (maybe a few minutes) about once a month. This has been for about 6 years except for brief periods of trying to get pregnant. Often it's months in between. She has no desire to satisfy me or meet my needs. I have asked repeatedly and told her my concerns. I'm a good looking, fit guy that tries to giver her everything. She's a stay at home mom. Is a occasional run-and-tug that bad a thing or do most of the women out there think I should just accept a mostly celibate life? I have kids and want the marriage to work. Perhaps many of the women out there think a divorce is a better option. I haven't been to one of those places in years, but I can see it as an option to have some needs met that a spouse is not willing to meet. Unfortunately, many American, "Christian" women have lost sight of what it means to be a wife. Had they not, many of these massage parlors would not be in business.
Give me a break, giving a full body massage is definitely not cheating. Cheating to who? The masseur, the therapist, the one on the table or one at home who doesn't know their husband or wife is on my table getting a full body massage? A full body massages is considered therapeutic in many countries and cultures. A woman can't make a man ejaculate, a man ejaculates on his own free will because he does not know how to hold it. As an American culture we need to learn how to touch our partners more often. I hear men and women telling me their partner hasn't touched them in weeks, sometimes even months. I have men and women who breakdown in tears because its been so long since they've been touched by a partner. How sad and then you find posts like these bashing massages. No you are not a prude if you don't want a non partner touching certain parts of your body, its just your preference and prerogative but thats not cheating.
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