I'm sorry j. Divorce is painful. I wish you had been able to keep those rings to give to your daughter. That would have been a nice gift to her someday to be reminded that you once loved her mother and she was born from that.
You are right---------- she is sad and desperate. All you can do is pity her. You will go on to have a good and full life and she will always live with what she did to her family. good luck
Well in my opinion, even jewellery given to signify a love and relationship, is meant to signify just that, it doesn't matter about the cost, it would be solely out of greed to sell something with a deeper spiritual meaning to it, for your own needs. If has all her memories, it represents her, so why would you want it? It's not just an object, it is more than that.
The respectful thing to do, would be to give it back to the person, because you are giving back the love that has died. If you sell it, it means you are still in denial and angry. If you keep it, you will be haunted by them. You can't sell or keep something that isn't spiritually yours anymore.
Update - Karen asked for the rings back and I cursed her out, told her I hoped she would choke on them, told her she had such nerve and that she should instead crawl under a rock and hide.... but I did give them back because I knew (and she brought it up) that the law is on her side and in the bigger picture I dont want to pay my lawyer money to defend something that I would loose anyway.
Someone helped me feel better by reminding me that desperate people do desperate things. She is flat broke and doesn't have much to loose anyway.
One other note... My divorce is scheduled for Dec. 14th. I told her I want my last name back, so she is changing her name to something totally new. I think she wants to start a new life.
bkdotson, good for you. It is hard to keep our personal feelings to ourselves sometimes but it is best for the kids, it really is. And I think that is lovely that she will get this ring someday. I agree----------- a ring is a symbol of love once shared as opposed to something now tainted. It is a symbol of what was good about the relationship and kids need to know that there was good at one time and they were born out of that. So, good for you.
I got divorced about 14 years ago. I did get to keep the ring, but the only reason I requested to keep it was to be able to put aside for my daughter. she is now 17 years old and gets to look at it once in a while and knows that it is hers when the time is right. She will get to decide to use the diamond as a pendant or re-set it into something else or use the ring for her when she gets married. It has been special for her to be able to have this symbol of her dad and I. Even though things did not work out between us she deserves to have a piece of that in her life. PS no we don't get along and it was a pretty bad divorce, but we don't bring that into her life.
Blah, blah, blah. SHE called it off. SHE cheated on you.
As the Steve Miller Band so eloquently put it, "Go on take the money and run. oo, oo, oo".
They may be legally hers, but she broke the contractual agreement she entered into when she legally & bindingly MARRIED YOU. All the better if you can actually PROVE infidelity, as no lawyer in their right'mind would fight you for the possession of said rings if evidence of infidelity existed.
You bought them, they're yours. Do with them as you please and she can get bent if she doesn't like it.
So let it be written... so let it be done.
I'm old fashioned------------ it is sad to say these rings are no longer "happy rings"---------- they actually DO represent a time when they were happy and a daughter would want to remember that. Just my opinion.
In my state, the rings are considered gifts, and therefore your wife's property. In the case of a broken engagement rather than divorce, the honorable thing for the woman to do is to return the ring to the man, but legally she is not required to do so. The operative word in the broken engagement scenario is "gift." Yes, the engagement ring is a token of a promise to marry, but it is legally a freely-given gift even if the marriage never happens.
Save yourself a lot of trouble and grief and just give the rings to your soon-to-be-ex and let her do whatever she will with them. Divorce is difficult and traumatic enough without adding something else to fight over. Take the high road wherever you can and save your sanity, which can be a pretty scarce commodity where divorce is concerned. :-)
I agree that you should keep them, since she gave them back to you. If she doesn't mention it in the divorce then use them any which way you want. I highly doubt your daugther would want the ring. When she gets engaged, her boyfriend will purchase his own to ask her. This is something to talk over with your attorney.
Thanks for voting and comments. I should clarify that if I did end up with the diamond I wouldnt give it as a ring, but perhaps re-set it as a pendent (as Rock Rose mentioned).
Very good point about not selling them before the divorce... I wasnt going to but it hadnt occurred to me that I could be on the hook for the original value instead of what I actually got for them which would probably be about 1/3.
Regarding getting it in writing... I dont think that that is going to happen. Hmm, something to think about.
I agree the rings are hers. If they are brought up during divorce proceedings and you don't have them...you'll most likely have to give her the monetary value of them depending on your states laws. (happened with my mom and dad. He sold her rings without her permission...had to pay her 10K for the cost of engagement and wedding band seeing as how by law they were hers and he never had permission to sale them.
those are her rings. you GAVE them to her and even though the marriage is over, she still has her ring/s as you do yours to do w/ what you want. wear them, toss them, sell them, whatever but they are hers to decide
I don't think she would use them as wedding or engagement rings - the bride doesn't provide her own engagement ring! ;D That's a gift from her fiance.
And this is her mother, and the marriage that created her - I would think she might want the diamond reset in a pendant.
Right, who wants to be cursed. Exactly what I was trying to say but you did it so much better than I.
I certainly would not leave them for the daughter. These are no longer 'happy' rings, and I don't think the daughter would want divorce rings? She needs to start fresh.
Think about what is most important here.. your daughter. GIve the rings back. They are legally your soon to be ex's.. In most cases... your ex will pass them down to her anyway when your daughter is older.. rise above.. when you gave her those rings.. you gave them to her at a point when you LOVED each other. Just give them back. If she says that she does not want them.. Then keep them.. for your daughter. Make sure you get it in writing though.. so it doesnt come back to bite you in the butt.
Well the legal right would be hers.... but if she gave them back to you and they are not mentioned in the divorce, they are yours. And I would sell em, because when your daughter grows up she will want her own and these will be outdated and need reset anyways.
Im sorry your going thru this. Not something we ever think we will deal with when we get married is it?
I agree with the fact that she rightfully owns the rings. You bought and gave them to her. On the other side of the coin, if she gave them back to you, they are yours.
Looking it up, imanaddict is right.
They're hers once you two marry. There is some gray area whether they were hers the moment you gave them to her, but no argument about whose they are once you are married.
I wouldn't sell them or in any other way make them not accessible during the divorce proceeding - you may be on the hook for more than the amount you make selling them second hand.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/grossman/20011023.html
Actually, the rings are hers legally. If you were engaged and broke off the engagement, you would be entitled to the rings. in your case, you were (are) married so they belong to her. I know that may not be what you want to hear given the circumstances. I would hang onto them until the divorce is final and if it is not mentioned, then go ahead and sell them. Otherwise, they are hers to do as she pleases. I hope everything works out and I'm sorry you are going through this!
If the rings have real monetary value, this is probably something that will come up in the divorce proceedings. I wouldn't get rid of them before the divorce is final and the property is divided.