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Male Domestic Violence Victims
This is domestic violence month... Sooo I thought I would post this article about Med help and see what peoples thoughts were!!
A big piece of stone just fell out of the Domestic Violence version of the Berlin Wall
October 15, 2008, 8:43 AM by Jonathan Kay
Barbara Kay
***@****
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/10/15/barbara-kay-a-big-piece-of-stone-just-fell-out-of-the-domestic-violence-version-of-the-berlin-wall.aspx
October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month and I am sure that to 99% of readers the two words "domestic violence" means violence against women. Only. The politically correct view that all domestic violence (DV) can be accounted for either by the inherent aggression and controlling instincts of men or by women's defensive reactions against those instincts is so deeply entrenched in our culture that it has become the Berlin Wall of the gender wars - or rather the war of feminism against men. In fact women initiate violence against their partners in an almost equal ratio to men. And in many cases the violence they inflict is severe (as one woman in a woman's shelter told the director, "knives make great levellers").
For all the men who have suffered at the hands of battering women, a chunk of stone just fell out of that huge gendered wall. In a taxpayer lawsuit by four male victims of DV, the Third District appellate court in California reversed a previous ruling holding that because they are not statistically situated with women, men are not entitled to equal protection. The new ruling declares the exclusion of men from Domestic Violence programs unconstitutional.
The presenting case, that of David Woods and his daughter Maegan, now in her early 20s, was compelling because the evidence was irrefutable, the worst case of gender bias in this area I have ever seen. David Woods is a handicapped man in a wheelchair, incapable of living on his own, and dependent (or was during the relevant period, the 1980s, when Meagan was a young girl) on his wife Ruth, who is bi-polar with violent tendencies. David frequently attempted to get help from a Sacramento DV agency, who always told him "We don't help men," explaining that men were perpetrators of violence, never victims, the usual mantra so clearly inapplicable to his situation. Churches and various other programs were equally unhelpful.
If David had fled with his daughter, he would have been arrested for kidnapping, unlike women with children who are offered shelter and sympathy. He would certainly have lost custody in a divorce, so neither flight nor divorce would have served Meagan's interests. Bias in the law enforcement system exacerbated the problem. In one 1995 incident, Ruth aimed a shotgun at Meagan. David managed to wrest it from her. Ruth called the police, telling them she wanted to kill her husband, but when the police arrived, they immediately handcuffed him.
People who have followed the heartrending story of the Woods family can only rejoice at this moral victory, which of course comes too late to rewrite the tragic trajectory of Meagan's unhappy childhood, but hopefully will provide a strong foundation for the reversal of the tide of gender bias the case represents.
The entrenched prejudices against men in the DV industry know no borders. California today, other states tomorrow. And Canada? The issues are the same, the right of taxpayers to equal access to services is the same, the bias in the legal system is the same, and the cultural blindness to the plight of male suffering is the same.
It would be a grace note for judges here to take note of the chunk of wall on the ground, and pick up a proactive hammer. The faster this wall comes down, the better for democracy and for gender relations, soured by years of feminists' indifference to the suffering of male victims and their children.
A big piece of stone just fell out of the Domestic Violence version of the Berlin Wall
October 15, 2008, 8:43 AM by Jonathan Kay
Barbara Kay
***@****
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/10/15/barbara-kay-a-big-piece-of-stone-just-fell-out-of-the-domestic-violence-version-of-the-berlin-wall.aspx
October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month and I am sure that to 99% of readers the two words "domestic violence" means violence against women. Only. The politically correct view that all domestic violence (DV) can be accounted for either by the inherent aggression and controlling instincts of men or by women's defensive reactions against those instincts is so deeply entrenched in our culture that it has become the Berlin Wall of the gender wars - or rather the war of feminism against men. In fact women initiate violence against their partners in an almost equal ratio to men. And in many cases the violence they inflict is severe (as one woman in a woman's shelter told the director, "knives make great levellers").
For all the men who have suffered at the hands of battering women, a chunk of stone just fell out of that huge gendered wall. In a taxpayer lawsuit by four male victims of DV, the Third District appellate court in California reversed a previous ruling holding that because they are not statistically situated with women, men are not entitled to equal protection. The new ruling declares the exclusion of men from Domestic Violence programs unconstitutional.
The presenting case, that of David Woods and his daughter Maegan, now in her early 20s, was compelling because the evidence was irrefutable, the worst case of gender bias in this area I have ever seen. David Woods is a handicapped man in a wheelchair, incapable of living on his own, and dependent (or was during the relevant period, the 1980s, when Meagan was a young girl) on his wife Ruth, who is bi-polar with violent tendencies. David frequently attempted to get help from a Sacramento DV agency, who always told him "We don't help men," explaining that men were perpetrators of violence, never victims, the usual mantra so clearly inapplicable to his situation. Churches and various other programs were equally unhelpful.
If David had fled with his daughter, he would have been arrested for kidnapping, unlike women with children who are offered shelter and sympathy. He would certainly have lost custody in a divorce, so neither flight nor divorce would have served Meagan's interests. Bias in the law enforcement system exacerbated the problem. In one 1995 incident, Ruth aimed a shotgun at Meagan. David managed to wrest it from her. Ruth called the police, telling them she wanted to kill her husband, but when the police arrived, they immediately handcuffed him.
People who have followed the heartrending story of the Woods family can only rejoice at this moral victory, which of course comes too late to rewrite the tragic trajectory of Meagan's unhappy childhood, but hopefully will provide a strong foundation for the reversal of the tide of gender bias the case represents.
The entrenched prejudices against men in the DV industry know no borders. California today, other states tomorrow. And Canada? The issues are the same, the right of taxpayers to equal access to services is the same, the bias in the legal system is the same, and the cultural blindness to the plight of male suffering is the same.
It would be a grace note for judges here to take note of the chunk of wall on the ground, and pick up a proactive hammer. The faster this wall comes down, the better for democracy and for gender relations, soured by years of feminists' indifference to the suffering of male victims and their children.
This is inaccurate information about Christopher Wohlers. I am his sister, "the older girl in the room" ...my mother did not get life...she got six of which she did not serve them all...and she was given this because she failed to protect us...she should have gotten more...considering they held my brothers body under water in a tub to say he drowned. Zuliani did beat my brother in fact to death, and he was tried 3 times...manslaughter was the best he got. our last trip to court in 99, but now here he is again today arrested for the brutal beating of his girlfriend. Please get your facts straight before you begin posting about my family.
BTW... What exactly are the points you wanted a rsponse to? I was unclear as to that.
In point of fact. Only people who are not willing to forget what is happening to them CURRENTLY (some of the situations I talk about are not in the past but rather ongoing) make changes.
I am not a sheep that has been kicked, but rather a domesticated wolf if you will that had never tried to do more than protect my children (or pack if you will) my ancestry is largely of Finnish descent so in this matter I admit I act with my full Sissu upon me (there is no simple translation but if you look it up the translation wikipedia uses is the poorest one.)
Yes I brought up rape because the situation is paralell. and she extended it. No victim EVER deserves to be beaten, runover, maimed (it's apparently hilarious when women maim men), burned, held hostage or tortured. End of story.
So far as people who kill children due to hormonal imbalances same as pedophiles. Put them on a barren Island if they refuse to seek help, all together. No supplies no transportation and let natural courses follow. People who abuse children, elderly, and the helpless should be stricken from all records, their families forced to change their names etc. et al.
The motto of my family crest means "we learn compassion from suffering" and we do. However sometimes compassion must be measured by a will to change what is wrong to end suffering.
Or put another way, there is a group of people who have the motto never forget. And to that motto they hold on to the memory of MILLIONS of deaths. Remembering keeps them from ever healing 100% but it also has led them to make moves in the world that I don't largely agree with but must respect. Victims should NEVER FORGET and should help others as they themselves were helped.
Or as one professor once told me... The only trait that makes us human is altruism.
I apolagise for yet another rant and yet another scambled look into my soul but... There you have it.
I am not a sheep that has been kicked, but rather a domesticated wolf if you will that had never tried to do more than protect my children (or pack if you will) my ancestry is largely of Finnish descent so in this matter I admit I act with my full Sissu upon me (there is no simple translation but if you look it up the translation wikipedia uses is the poorest one.)
Yes I brought up rape because the situation is paralell. and she extended it. No victim EVER deserves to be beaten, runover, maimed (it's apparently hilarious when women maim men), burned, held hostage or tortured. End of story.
So far as people who kill children due to hormonal imbalances same as pedophiles. Put them on a barren Island if they refuse to seek help, all together. No supplies no transportation and let natural courses follow. People who abuse children, elderly, and the helpless should be stricken from all records, their families forced to change their names etc. et al.
The motto of my family crest means "we learn compassion from suffering" and we do. However sometimes compassion must be measured by a will to change what is wrong to end suffering.
Or put another way, there is a group of people who have the motto never forget. And to that motto they hold on to the memory of MILLIONS of deaths. Remembering keeps them from ever healing 100% but it also has led them to make moves in the world that I don't largely agree with but must respect. Victims should NEVER FORGET and should help others as they themselves were helped.
Or as one professor once told me... The only trait that makes us human is altruism.
I apolagise for yet another rant and yet another scambled look into my soul but... There you have it.
I read those posts by mayflowers before they were deleted last night, Sam, and your perception and interpretation of what she wrote is skewed. She obviously struck a nerve because she wrote directly to you and didn't sugar-coat it--she didn't write in general terms (the way I did) about her views on victimization--and perhaps that's why her posts were deleted. But you are the one who brought up rape, not her.
You ignored my other points, but I really do hope you think about what I wrote...about the possibility that helping others may be perpetuating your own anger, defensiveness, and distorted perspective, preventing you from healing.
All the best to you, Sam.
You ignored my other points, but I really do hope you think about what I wrote...about the possibility that helping others may be perpetuating your own anger, defensiveness, and distorted perspective, preventing you from healing.
All the best to you, Sam.
Alexis Huicochea
A grandmother accused of forcing her 9-year-old grandson to stay in a closet reportedly gave the boy pills that were not prescribed to him to “make him be quiet,” a court document shows.
The grandmother told authorities she didn’t allow the boy — who weighed only 48 pounds — to go to school because “they can’t handle him.” As a result, the boy was unable to read or write.
Becky Lee Tortellet, 50, and her husband, 52-year-old Larry Alan Tortellet, have been arrested on child abuse charges.
According to a search warrant affidavit, Becky Tortellet took her 9-year-old grandson to a behavioral health center for assistance where she told them that she made the boy sleep in a closet, which measured 49 inches deep and 41 inches wide.
The center contacted Child Protective Services and the boy and his 8-year-old brother — who was allowed to go to school and appeared to be normal — were removed from the home.
During an interview with authorities, the 9-year-old said that he has to sleep in the closet and is also made to stay in there when he is punished or when his grandmother was in the bathroom, the court document states.
The boy — who had pale skin and difficulty walking — said it was his fault because he misbehaves.
“I am bad, horrible, and my mom doesn’t want me anymore,” he said. He refers to his grandmother as his mom. His biological mother left the two boys with the grandmother years ago and hasn’t been heard from since, authorities said.
He has to wear a diaper while in the closet, which contained carpet, a sleeping bag and a sheet. It was described as having a “heavy foul odor of urine and feces.”
The boy’s 8-year-old brother told authorities he has his own room and that his brother was in the closet because he was naughty and needed to be put into an institution, according to the document.
The 8-year-old also said he liked watching movies with his grandparents, whom he referred to as mom and dad. However, his brother did not watch with them because he was in the closet.
The family moved to Tucson in December 2007 and the Pima County Sheriff’s Department believes that the boy has been in the closet since then. The 8-year-old said that his brother was also kept in the closet when they lived in Texas.
After being removed from his grandmother’s home, the 9-year-old was placed in a group home and told investigators that he liked it there because he sleeps in a bunk bed and can see out of a window.
Sheriff’s deputies seized white pills prescribed to Becky Tortellet as well as a prescription bottle of clonidine and other pills, a search warrant shows. They also seized paperwork from the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services.
CPS in Arizona has had no prior contact with the children or their grandparents, said Vicki Gaubeca, a CPS spokeswoman
Family was on a rocky road before mother flung boys, self from I-30 overpass
12:00 AM CDT on Thursday, March 13, 2008
By STEVE THOMPSON / The Dallas Morning News
***@****
Just before dawn Wednesday in rush-hour traffic, Sondra Plunk saw a boy falling from the overpass ahead of her.
G.J. MCCARTHY/DMN
Traffic whizzed by orange cones on Interstate 30 as Dallas police conferred on the Jim Miller Road bridge, where they say a woman threw her two sons into oncoming traffic, then herself, during Wednesday's morning rush hour.
He smacked the pavement hard on his right side, but quickly rolled onto all fours. Then he looked up – his wide eyes staring straight into oncoming cars and trucks.
The driver of the van in the lane beside Ms. Plunk slammed on its brakes.
"I lost sight of him because the van hit him," Ms. Plunk said.
The child was one of two boys whose mother threw them from the overpass where Jim Miller Road crosses Interstate 30, police say. Then the mother leapt over the railing herself.
All three survived and were taken to local hospitals. The mother was listed in critical condition. The two boys, Gary Ford, 8, and Derrick Tennison, 6, were able to talk with paramedics, and their injuries did not appear to be life-threatening.
Khandi Busby, 27, may face charges of attempted murder, police said.
She and the children had been riding in a yellow Cadillac with her father on their way to a friend's home, police said. They stopped to get gas at a Shell station along I-30.
As her father pumped fuel and paid, Ms. Busby got out of the car with the boys and headed to the overpass, threatening to jump, police said. Her father followed, but did not reach them in time.
"The children were trying to stave off being thrown over the edge, but they were overpowered by their mother," said Dallas police Lt. C.L. Williams.
It was a 22-foot drop.
Investigators said they were trying to confirm whether any of the family members were struck by vehicles after they fell. It appeared that at least one of the boys escaped being run over.
"It's a miracle both kids weren't hit directly by a passing car," Dallas police Sgt. David Burroughs said.
Ms. Plunk agreed. She said that westbound traffic was moving about 35 mph. If the boys had been dropped in the eastbound lanes, where traffic was moving much faster, she said, they probably would have been killed.
"I believe that's the only thing that saved these children," she said.
Police did not say what may have sparked Ms. Busby's actions Wednesday.
According to relatives and court records, the mother and her children had a troubled history. Child Protective Services officials were investigating Wednesday afternoon while the children remained in the hospital, but they had not taken the two into protective custody.
"She didn't bathe them or nothing," said a cousin, Keisha Phillips.
In 2004, CPS investigators found that the boys were unkempt and wore dirty clothes. Officials provided Ms. Busby with services including day care, food, clothing, help with utilities, and parenting skills training.
The following year, investigators received a report of a domestic violence incident between Ms. Busby and her then-boyfriend. She was arrested, and the two boys were placed in foster care.
They remained there for several months until a judge returned them to Ms. Busby, who was then living with her father.
For years, Ms. Busby and the children have been without a stable place to live, Ms. Phillips said. They bounced between her father's home, rented homes that her father helped pay for, other relatives' houses, and those of her occasional boyfriends.
Late one night several months ago, mother and children came knocking at Ms. Phillips' door.
"We don't have nowhere to go," she recalls Ms. Busby telling her.
"At the time, I don't think those kids had been in school for two weeks," Ms. Phillips said.
Ms. Phillips said that her cousin can be very sweet, but that she also is erratic and has used drugs.
"I didn't think she had mental problems, but she had anger issues," she said.
Ms. Busby worked some as a home health care aide, but she skipped between jobs, her cousin said. She was known to have asked friends to baby-sit for her, then disappeared for days.
Her criminal history includes charges of assault, trespassing and burglary.
In 2002, Ms. Busby was sentenced to a year in the county jail after finding another woman in her boyfriend's home, attacking her with a knife, and stealing her purse.
In 2005, she was accused of scratching a Dallas County detention officer. That case is pending.
Experts say that mothers who try to kill their children and take their own lives do it for a variety of reasons, and that it is tough to generalize.
"It's true that most women who kill their children after the first year of life have some serious mental problem," said Dr. Park Dietz, a forensic psychiatrist in Newport Beach, Calif.
Dr. Dietz, who studies the phenomenon, testified at the trials of two notorious Texas mothers, Andrea Yates and Deanna Laney.
In 2001, Ms. Yates drowned her five children in a bathtub. In 2003, Ms. Laney bashed the heads of her three young sons with rocks, killing two of them.
"When the parent is truly trying to commit suicide and take others with her or him, they generally have the view that their loved ones will be better off with them than they would be in this life," Dr. Dietz said. "Because they've overgeneralized from their own pessimistic, depressive outlook to think the world is bleak and miserable."
Others have more selfish reasons, he said – "something more akin to, 'I'm taking them with me so their father won't enjoy their company,' or 'so that I won't be lonely in heaven.' "
Juries are unpredictable, Dr. Dietz said, but whether such mothers are found sane in court is supposed to depend on whether they understood what they were doing was wrong.
"Whether they, in fact, knew it was against the law, wrong in the eyes of society, wrong in the eyes of God, etc." he said. "Some mentally ill people know it's wrong; some don't."
Ms. Phillips said her cousin seemed despondent at times, complaining that she couldn't take care of her children and, because of them, couldn't keep a boyfriend.
She even mentioned suicide, though Ms. Phillips said she had no idea how serious Ms. Busby may have been.
"I can't take this," Ms. Busby told her cousin once. "I just feel like killing all of us."
Staff writers Kimberly Durnan and Tanya Eiserer contributed to this report.
12:00 AM CDT on Thursday, March 13, 2008
By STEVE THOMPSON / The Dallas Morning News
***@****
Just before dawn Wednesday in rush-hour traffic, Sondra Plunk saw a boy falling from the overpass ahead of her.
G.J. MCCARTHY/DMN
Traffic whizzed by orange cones on Interstate 30 as Dallas police conferred on the Jim Miller Road bridge, where they say a woman threw her two sons into oncoming traffic, then herself, during Wednesday's morning rush hour.
He smacked the pavement hard on his right side, but quickly rolled onto all fours. Then he looked up – his wide eyes staring straight into oncoming cars and trucks.
The driver of the van in the lane beside Ms. Plunk slammed on its brakes.
"I lost sight of him because the van hit him," Ms. Plunk said.
The child was one of two boys whose mother threw them from the overpass where Jim Miller Road crosses Interstate 30, police say. Then the mother leapt over the railing herself.
All three survived and were taken to local hospitals. The mother was listed in critical condition. The two boys, Gary Ford, 8, and Derrick Tennison, 6, were able to talk with paramedics, and their injuries did not appear to be life-threatening.
Khandi Busby, 27, may face charges of attempted murder, police said.
She and the children had been riding in a yellow Cadillac with her father on their way to a friend's home, police said. They stopped to get gas at a Shell station along I-30.
As her father pumped fuel and paid, Ms. Busby got out of the car with the boys and headed to the overpass, threatening to jump, police said. Her father followed, but did not reach them in time.
"The children were trying to stave off being thrown over the edge, but they were overpowered by their mother," said Dallas police Lt. C.L. Williams.
It was a 22-foot drop.
Investigators said they were trying to confirm whether any of the family members were struck by vehicles after they fell. It appeared that at least one of the boys escaped being run over.
"It's a miracle both kids weren't hit directly by a passing car," Dallas police Sgt. David Burroughs said.
Ms. Plunk agreed. She said that westbound traffic was moving about 35 mph. If the boys had been dropped in the eastbound lanes, where traffic was moving much faster, she said, they probably would have been killed.
"I believe that's the only thing that saved these children," she said.
Police did not say what may have sparked Ms. Busby's actions Wednesday.
According to relatives and court records, the mother and her children had a troubled history. Child Protective Services officials were investigating Wednesday afternoon while the children remained in the hospital, but they had not taken the two into protective custody.
"She didn't bathe them or nothing," said a cousin, Keisha Phillips.
In 2004, CPS investigators found that the boys were unkempt and wore dirty clothes. Officials provided Ms. Busby with services including day care, food, clothing, help with utilities, and parenting skills training.
The following year, investigators received a report of a domestic violence incident between Ms. Busby and her then-boyfriend. She was arrested, and the two boys were placed in foster care.
They remained there for several months until a judge returned them to Ms. Busby, who was then living with her father.
For years, Ms. Busby and the children have been without a stable place to live, Ms. Phillips said. They bounced between her father's home, rented homes that her father helped pay for, other relatives' houses, and those of her occasional boyfriends.
Late one night several months ago, mother and children came knocking at Ms. Phillips' door.
"We don't have nowhere to go," she recalls Ms. Busby telling her.
"At the time, I don't think those kids had been in school for two weeks," Ms. Phillips said.
Ms. Phillips said that her cousin can be very sweet, but that she also is erratic and has used drugs.
"I didn't think she had mental problems, but she had anger issues," she said.
Ms. Busby worked some as a home health care aide, but she skipped between jobs, her cousin said. She was known to have asked friends to baby-sit for her, then disappeared for days.
Her criminal history includes charges of assault, trespassing and burglary.
In 2002, Ms. Busby was sentenced to a year in the county jail after finding another woman in her boyfriend's home, attacking her with a knife, and stealing her purse.
In 2005, she was accused of scratching a Dallas County detention officer. That case is pending.
Experts say that mothers who try to kill their children and take their own lives do it for a variety of reasons, and that it is tough to generalize.
"It's true that most women who kill their children after the first year of life have some serious mental problem," said Dr. Park Dietz, a forensic psychiatrist in Newport Beach, Calif.
Dr. Dietz, who studies the phenomenon, testified at the trials of two notorious Texas mothers, Andrea Yates and Deanna Laney.
In 2001, Ms. Yates drowned her five children in a bathtub. In 2003, Ms. Laney bashed the heads of her three young sons with rocks, killing two of them.
"When the parent is truly trying to commit suicide and take others with her or him, they generally have the view that their loved ones will be better off with them than they would be in this life," Dr. Dietz said. "Because they've overgeneralized from their own pessimistic, depressive outlook to think the world is bleak and miserable."
Others have more selfish reasons, he said – "something more akin to, 'I'm taking them with me so their father won't enjoy their company,' or 'so that I won't be lonely in heaven.' "
Juries are unpredictable, Dr. Dietz said, but whether such mothers are found sane in court is supposed to depend on whether they understood what they were doing was wrong.
"Whether they, in fact, knew it was against the law, wrong in the eyes of society, wrong in the eyes of God, etc." he said. "Some mentally ill people know it's wrong; some don't."
Ms. Phillips said her cousin seemed despondent at times, complaining that she couldn't take care of her children and, because of them, couldn't keep a boyfriend.
She even mentioned suicide, though Ms. Phillips said she had no idea how serious Ms. Busby may have been.
"I can't take this," Ms. Busby told her cousin once. "I just feel like killing all of us."
Staff writers Kimberly Durnan and Tanya Eiserer contributed to this report.
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Mom, 4 daughters found hanging
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By Emily Bazar, USA TODAY
Police in east Texas are working to explain the inexplicable: the hangings of a mother and her four children.
The mother, Gilberta Estrada Vega, 25, was found dead in a bedroom closet early Tuesday alongside three of her daughters, ages 5, 3 and 22 months, Parker County Sheriff Larry Fowler said. An 8-month-old baby girl also was hanged but survived.
VIDEO: Relative found 8-month-old alive
"This is an absolutely horrendous situation," Fowler said.
"As far as the motive or what happened, we don't know yet."
The heart-breaking scene was in the Oak Hill mobile home park just outside Hudson Oaks, a city of about 2,000 people 20 miles west of Fort Worth.
Evidence pointed to a murder-suicide, but the investigation continues, Fowler said. The sheriff said the trailer's door had been tied shut from the inside with a piece of string, and he said the aunt told police Estrada had been depressed. He said the bodies were hanging by pieces of cloth from a rod in the closet.
The children's father, who did not live with them, was interviewed by police, but is not currently a suspect, Fowler said. Estrada had gotten a protective order against him in August, he said.
The children's aunt, whose name was not released by police, found the bodies about 6:30 a.m. after her sister did not appear at her restaurant job, he said.
She heard the 8-month-old making sounds, released her from her noose, ran from the house with her and called 911, Fowler said.
"It's an absolute miracle" the baby survived, he said.
"She is in very good condition," Winifred King, spokeswoman for Cook Children's Medical Center in Fort Worth, said.
A similar killing recently shook Montgomery County in Maryland. On April 3, Gerardo Roque killed his 2-year-old daughter and 1-year-old son by hanging them from tree limbs before committing suicide the same way, Montgomery County police said.
"This was certainly one of the most difficult cases to investigate," said Lucille Baur, spokeswoman for the Montgomery County police department.
"It's heart-wrenching."
Hudson Oaks city administrator Robert Hanna said the city has offered counseling to employees who responded to the crime scene.
In July 2002, another Hudson Oaks resident, Dee Perez shot and killed her 9- and 10-year-old sons and 4-year-old daughter before killing herself.
"We're not looking forward to reopening those wounds," Hanna said.
"Overall in the community, there's a feeling of tragic loss."
It's Never Her Fault: Four Texas Women Murder 11 Kids, All Found 'Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity' (Gilberta Estrada, Part II)
May 30th, 2007 by Glenn Sacks
As the Associated Press article on the Gilberta Estrada murders notes, in recent years there has been a spate of Texas women murdering their children, and not one was held criminally culpable for her actions:
In 2004, Dena Schlosser fatally severed her 10-month-old daughter's arms with
a kitchen knife.
In 2003, Deanna Laney beat her two young sons to death with stones in East Texas.
In 2003, Lisa Ann Diaz drowned her daughters in a Plano bathtub.
In 2001, Andrea Yates drowned her five children in the family's Houston bathtub.
All four were found not guilty by reason of insanity.
(In addition, Dee Etta Perez, 39, shot her three children, ages 4, 9 and 10, before killing herself, and Gilberta Estrada murdered three of her daughters this week. To learn more, see my blog post Texas Mother Murders Her 3 Children--and It's Ex-Boyfriend's Fault?!).
May 30th, 2007 by Glenn Sacks
As the Associated Press article on the Gilberta Estrada murders notes, in recent years there has been a spate of Texas women murdering their children, and not one was held criminally culpable for her actions:
In 2004, Dena Schlosser fatally severed her 10-month-old daughter's arms with
a kitchen knife.
In 2003, Deanna Laney beat her two young sons to death with stones in East Texas.
In 2003, Lisa Ann Diaz drowned her daughters in a Plano bathtub.
In 2001, Andrea Yates drowned her five children in the family's Houston bathtub.
All four were found not guilty by reason of insanity.
(In addition, Dee Etta Perez, 39, shot her three children, ages 4, 9 and 10, before killing herself, and Gilberta Estrada murdered three of her daughters this week. To learn more, see my blog post Texas Mother Murders Her 3 Children--and It's Ex-Boyfriend's Fault?!).
Amanda Ham watched the car sink and helped puss it into the lake and knew what was going on. But she wanted to be with her boyfriend.
RE: boyfriends & stepdads? I agree with you. Oddly though men are more likely than women to kick a woman who is abusive to the curb.
http://books.google.com/books?id=FnAtAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA185&lpg=PA185&dq=mother+chopped+child&source=web&ots=eOoAyqkHsx&sig=cAgQl4JsZMRss-wgwbHvJki-Nn4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=21&ct=result
RE: boyfriends & stepdads? I agree with you. Oddly though men are more likely than women to kick a woman who is abusive to the curb.
http://books.google.com/books?id=FnAtAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA185&lpg=PA185&dq=mother+chopped+child&source=web&ots=eOoAyqkHsx&sig=cAgQl4JsZMRss-wgwbHvJki-Nn4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=21&ct=result
Serious Sam, you're wrong about the stats of women in the courts. You're also wrong about Amanda Hamm. He killed the children: she didn't stop him. So what else is new in the world of boyfriends killing the kids. She didn't plan it, she didn't do it, she didn't stop him. So for once, she got the lighter sentence as should be. My guess is he wouldn't have even been tried if he had been in the passenger seat and not stopped her from doing this.
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art24538.asp
And in the case of Nixzmary Brown, in the news yesterday. The mother who wasn't even in the room was convicted of the same charge as the boyfriend, who actually beat the child to death. The mother's crime? She did nothing. Same charges, same guilty verdict.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/nixzmary.brown.verdict.2.843447.html
The death of 2 year old Christopher Wohlers, beaten to death by his new dad Gerald Zuliani. His mother, Boutwell, did nothing and in fact wasn't in the room. By all accounts, it was Zuliani who beat the child, including the account of an older girl in the home. He served one year in jail, she's in prison for life. I couldn't find a decent article about the whole thing, just this:
http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=9026623
Logan Bowman. His mother is in prison for not reporting his absence to authorities - her boyfriend who undoubtedly killed and hid his body and lied to her about it wasn't even tried. "Not enough evidence" the prosecutor decided against the boyfriend. Logan's bio father came many times during his absence to try to see him, each time Schmemmerhorn (the boyfriend) told the dad Logan was elsewhere. Later, Shmemmerhorn told police the reason he didn't report Logan missing was he believed the biodad had him the whole time. Murderer.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bowman_logan.html
I could go on and on (I already have) but I'm sick to my stomach of men who kill children and the mothers rot in jail for it. Actually, I'm sick of the women who don't defend their children too, but they aren't the primary criminals. The boyfriends/stepdads are and they aren't held accountable.
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art24538.asp
And in the case of Nixzmary Brown, in the news yesterday. The mother who wasn't even in the room was convicted of the same charge as the boyfriend, who actually beat the child to death. The mother's crime? She did nothing. Same charges, same guilty verdict.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/nixzmary.brown.verdict.2.843447.html
The death of 2 year old Christopher Wohlers, beaten to death by his new dad Gerald Zuliani. His mother, Boutwell, did nothing and in fact wasn't in the room. By all accounts, it was Zuliani who beat the child, including the account of an older girl in the home. He served one year in jail, she's in prison for life. I couldn't find a decent article about the whole thing, just this:
http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=9026623
Logan Bowman. His mother is in prison for not reporting his absence to authorities - her boyfriend who undoubtedly killed and hid his body and lied to her about it wasn't even tried. "Not enough evidence" the prosecutor decided against the boyfriend. Logan's bio father came many times during his absence to try to see him, each time Schmemmerhorn (the boyfriend) told the dad Logan was elsewhere. Later, Shmemmerhorn told police the reason he didn't report Logan missing was he believed the biodad had him the whole time. Murderer.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bowman_logan.html
I could go on and on (I already have) but I'm sick to my stomach of men who kill children and the mothers rot in jail for it. Actually, I'm sick of the women who don't defend their children too, but they aren't the primary criminals. The boyfriends/stepdads are and they aren't held accountable.
What mayflower wrote was that men who were abused were weak and deserved to be abused.
Most women who are raped, are raped by people who know them.
I find it offensive to say that men deserve it as much as I find the argument that a woman who is raped deserves it.
So far as the court bias? Check the statistics from any state and look it up! Or better yet write any bar association! Write any district attorney and ask them how many visitation interference cases they have prosecuted.
Most women who are raped, are raped by people who know them.
I find it offensive to say that men deserve it as much as I find the argument that a woman who is raped deserves it.
So far as the court bias? Check the statistics from any state and look it up! Or better yet write any bar association! Write any district attorney and ask them how many visitation interference cases they have prosecuted.
Regarding perspective:
I see it similarly to mayflowers and RockRose, Sam. I do think you are very bitter and that’s distorting your view. You obviously have been hurt and are hanging on tightly to it. And that’s your choice—we all do what we need to do. But the tone in many (if not most) of your posts is anger towards women—towards the courts you view as always ruling in favor of women, towards the penal system that doesn’t hold bad women accountable...but mostly towards women. If volunteering your time is helping you to heal, then it's good. If it's perpetuating your own pain and negativity, then it's not good--for you, anyway.
I think that perspectives often get skewed by experience—like when you get a new car, suddenly you see hundreds of them all around town; or when you are pregnant, suddenly so is everyone else. There really aren’t more of these things, you’re just now noticing them because you are focusing on them. And if you are only noticing and focusing on Toyota Highlanders (your new car), you may not see all the other cars and it could be easy to believe that there are far more Highlanders on the road than any other car.
Regarding what mayflowers wrote:
We all have choices in life. We choose our mates and those with whom we procreate. We choose our employers and friends. We choose whether or not to stay in relationships—whatever type of relationship, for whatever reason. But only children and adults who are truly helpless and at the mercy of others for their care (handicapped, elderly, mentally or physically disabled, etc.) can truly be victims, in my opinon. Not always, mind you, but I do think that “victim” is, more often than not, a role that many adults choose to play (I know many in real life who do choose this role and I’ve seen posters here at MedHelp and other sites do the same). Let’s face it—to look at yourself and admit that your life (and the life of someone you love) is the way it is because of your own choices is tough to swallow. It's often easier to look externally for reasons that excuse yourself from the responsibility (at least partially).
Just my non-socio-economic, self-help-book, armchair analysis of the situation, mind you.
I see it similarly to mayflowers and RockRose, Sam. I do think you are very bitter and that’s distorting your view. You obviously have been hurt and are hanging on tightly to it. And that’s your choice—we all do what we need to do. But the tone in many (if not most) of your posts is anger towards women—towards the courts you view as always ruling in favor of women, towards the penal system that doesn’t hold bad women accountable...but mostly towards women. If volunteering your time is helping you to heal, then it's good. If it's perpetuating your own pain and negativity, then it's not good--for you, anyway.
I think that perspectives often get skewed by experience—like when you get a new car, suddenly you see hundreds of them all around town; or when you are pregnant, suddenly so is everyone else. There really aren’t more of these things, you’re just now noticing them because you are focusing on them. And if you are only noticing and focusing on Toyota Highlanders (your new car), you may not see all the other cars and it could be easy to believe that there are far more Highlanders on the road than any other car.
Regarding what mayflowers wrote:
We all have choices in life. We choose our mates and those with whom we procreate. We choose our employers and friends. We choose whether or not to stay in relationships—whatever type of relationship, for whatever reason. But only children and adults who are truly helpless and at the mercy of others for their care (handicapped, elderly, mentally or physically disabled, etc.) can truly be victims, in my opinon. Not always, mind you, but I do think that “victim” is, more often than not, a role that many adults choose to play (I know many in real life who do choose this role and I’ve seen posters here at MedHelp and other sites do the same). Let’s face it—to look at yourself and admit that your life (and the life of someone you love) is the way it is because of your own choices is tough to swallow. It's often easier to look externally for reasons that excuse yourself from the responsibility (at least partially).
Just my non-socio-economic, self-help-book, armchair analysis of the situation, mind you.
*smiles* Okie dokie..I didn't even know there were mods on here, I guess having them hidden keeps the massive PMs hitting their in-boxes :P
Please post your stories anyways, I am sure the men will come back, why let the angstyness of some shoo you away! That's what is great about online, you can share your stories, hurt and sorrow freely without the worry. Well , least it's how I see it for myself. But I don't much care who pokes back at me, also long as it has a tad bit of justificationed attached to it.
Please post your stories anyways, I am sure the men will come back, why let the angstyness of some shoo you away! That's what is great about online, you can share your stories, hurt and sorrow freely without the worry. Well , least it's how I see it for myself. But I don't much care who pokes back at me, also long as it has a tad bit of justificationed attached to it.
I don't believe you can self delete your posts. If you can someone lpease instruct me how. Otherwise I don't think more needs to be said on that perticular topic.
I can completely relate with your boyfriend and may post later if we can bring some of the other man back to this topic who might of shied away due to the tenor of a previous poster?
I can completely relate with your boyfriend and may post later if we can bring some of the other man back to this topic who might of shied away due to the tenor of a previous poster?
I assume "Mayflowers" posts were medhelp deleted or self deleted? I only see your replies remaining here.
I know it's a two way street with both women and men abusing each other same goes for rape as well. But the thing for men is the same for women, the embrassment to tell anyone. Men are suppose to be strong and to admit that your partner beats you in our world today, even in the past would most likely garner odd looks and snickers :\ I know it's a huge double standard going on.
My current bf was attacked with a knife by a deranged ex gf of his when he was 20, in his own home had he not got to his bedroom and locked his door on her, she mostly definitely would have tried to kill him. :-( He is very weary I think of womens moods and attitudes since then, which makes it hard for me when I have any lil mood change due to meds or now being off them, I am not a angry person, I don't yell, I don't swear..I don't hit or throw stuff, I basically use things from the past and my memory as my weapons. But still what happened almost 5 yrs ago, still stays with him..and he never talked to anyone really about it, because he was embrassed... He won't hit a girl, even if hes being attacked..
So I can understand your passion for this topic, and your need to get the word back out..so men don't hide in the shadows with bruises no more.
Shame on the police for not reacting as they should on these DV cases. It shouldn't matter the sex of the victim only that a crime took place upon anothers person.
I know it's a two way street with both women and men abusing each other same goes for rape as well. But the thing for men is the same for women, the embrassment to tell anyone. Men are suppose to be strong and to admit that your partner beats you in our world today, even in the past would most likely garner odd looks and snickers :\ I know it's a huge double standard going on.
My current bf was attacked with a knife by a deranged ex gf of his when he was 20, in his own home had he not got to his bedroom and locked his door on her, she mostly definitely would have tried to kill him. :-( He is very weary I think of womens moods and attitudes since then, which makes it hard for me when I have any lil mood change due to meds or now being off them, I am not a angry person, I don't yell, I don't swear..I don't hit or throw stuff, I basically use things from the past and my memory as my weapons. But still what happened almost 5 yrs ago, still stays with him..and he never talked to anyone really about it, because he was embrassed... He won't hit a girl, even if hes being attacked..
So I can understand your passion for this topic, and your need to get the word back out..so men don't hide in the shadows with bruises no more.
Shame on the police for not reacting as they should on these DV cases. It shouldn't matter the sex of the victim only that a crime took place upon anothers person.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,419381,00.html
This lady did about 1.5 years after drowning her three children, her boy friend got life. The statistics don't bear you out in America.
It is well recognized that gradiation of convictins goes from penalties being lightest on white women to being the heaviest on black men.
Do I see things from a different point? Probably. I believe my viewpoint is similar to someone who helps people in a rape crisis center, and like them I have to say you couldn't believe some of the things I've seen. And I am on accasion asked to be a court watcher and you would not believe the things I have seen.
I believe though your perspective is skewed by popular press.
I am not talking about other types of violence I am talking about domestic violence at this time.
Thanks though RR
This lady did about 1.5 years after drowning her three children, her boy friend got life. The statistics don't bear you out in America.
It is well recognized that gradiation of convictins goes from penalties being lightest on white women to being the heaviest on black men.
Do I see things from a different point? Probably. I believe my viewpoint is similar to someone who helps people in a rape crisis center, and like them I have to say you couldn't believe some of the things I've seen. And I am on accasion asked to be a court watcher and you would not believe the things I have seen.
I believe though your perspective is skewed by popular press.
I am not talking about other types of violence I am talking about domestic violence at this time.
Thanks though RR
The problem is you assume that when the abused man leaves the children don't go with the abuser. In our courts that is not even a statistical likelihood if the woman is the abuser.
Its not a war against men, its a war against eachother. I agree with Rockrose, but I also agree that woman are just as bad as men. I hate how many of the abusers(male or female) get away with it. Not one person deserves abuse, but there are many women who stick by their abuser. This girl I worked with came in with bruises everyday, "He beat me up" one second, the next second "But he loves me." Either way the consequences should be equal for both men and women. When you look at a man and how powerful he looks, they right away would assume the woman is speaking the truth. Its probably not always the case, but their is a big ammount of domineering men out there who are abusive. & to the man who sticks by their woman to protect his children is not protecting his children, he's putting his children through that. It's better to come from a broken home than be in one.
I think when people have experienced something, it's easy to take up that banner and make it a cause, to increase awareness and make something good come of bad.
I think in some cases, people involved in causes, like you SS are involved in courts unfairness with child custody and domestic violence against men - tend to believe it is more widespread than it is. You appear to have the belief based on your experience that women are usually given a better shake by our patriarchal court system, and women who physically tyrannize men are common.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Women are treated VERY harshly by our court system usually. Prostitutes who murder in self-defense are given stiff sentences, until very recently men who killed their wives for trying to leave were given a pass. Women who stand by and do nothing to keep their men from killing the children are given harsher sentences than the men who did the murdering.
I'm sorry you've had a hard time with parenting and marriage, but I really believe you see things from a skewed angle with respect to how common your situation is.
It is amazing to me, that women who struggle with raising children alone but fall a little short are dealt so harsh a blow by the courts for neglect, when the men who tra la la'd off are given a pass.
I think in some cases, people involved in causes, like you SS are involved in courts unfairness with child custody and domestic violence against men - tend to believe it is more widespread than it is. You appear to have the belief based on your experience that women are usually given a better shake by our patriarchal court system, and women who physically tyrannize men are common.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Women are treated VERY harshly by our court system usually. Prostitutes who murder in self-defense are given stiff sentences, until very recently men who killed their wives for trying to leave were given a pass. Women who stand by and do nothing to keep their men from killing the children are given harsher sentences than the men who did the murdering.
I'm sorry you've had a hard time with parenting and marriage, but I really believe you see things from a skewed angle with respect to how common your situation is.
It is amazing to me, that women who struggle with raising children alone but fall a little short are dealt so harsh a blow by the courts for neglect, when the men who tra la la'd off are given a pass.
This says it all!!!!
Men who choose not to abandon their children to their abusers do not choose stay with the abuser, they are electing to stay to protect their kids.
Men who choose not to abandon their children to their abusers do not choose stay with the abuser, they are electing to stay to protect their kids.
BTW you have no idea what situations I have been in nor could you have survived a tenth of them.
Nor do I think I would share them with your ilk.
Please have a most interesting evening doing something that will make the front page newspaper somewhere else and bother someone else.
Nor do I think I would share them with your ilk.
Please have a most interesting evening doing something that will make the front page newspaper somewhere else and bother someone else.
You are not astute in reading people. My son @ three years old had had to have dental work on 13 teeth do the math.
His mom disappeared with him and resurfaced temporarily with a man who sexually molested his son and daughter and had them taken away because of that.
He was also thrown out of the military on a section 8 for doing that to other kids. In the mean time do what you do best and during DOMESTIC VIOLENCE MONTH I will try to raise awareness of issues I feel are important.
Again I find you and your credentials suspect and feel you only post on these sites because it is the only place you feel people listen to you. Honestly working with people as I do each day I have a really good feel and with your subsanceless posts the phrase "menat non compos" comes readily to mind.
Why don't you go back to advising 18 year olds to marry or some other sound advise and quit following all of my posts?
I am trying to raise awareness of a topic and you are just revealing yourself to be both a bigot and a chauvinist.
His mom disappeared with him and resurfaced temporarily with a man who sexually molested his son and daughter and had them taken away because of that.
He was also thrown out of the military on a section 8 for doing that to other kids. In the mean time do what you do best and during DOMESTIC VIOLENCE MONTH I will try to raise awareness of issues I feel are important.
Again I find you and your credentials suspect and feel you only post on these sites because it is the only place you feel people listen to you. Honestly working with people as I do each day I have a really good feel and with your subsanceless posts the phrase "menat non compos" comes readily to mind.
Why don't you go back to advising 18 year olds to marry or some other sound advise and quit following all of my posts?
I am trying to raise awareness of a topic and you are just revealing yourself to be both a bigot and a chauvinist.
Men who choose not to abandon their children to their abusers do not choose stay with the abuser, they are electing to stay to protect their kids.
So you think their is deserved abuse and undeserved abuse. What exactly is your educational socio-economic background.
Btw only 5% of the ENTIRE world is thought to be 100% clinically sane. Why on earth do you think people, ourselves included, who post on a public forum meet that criteria?
Btw only 5% of the ENTIRE world is thought to be 100% clinically sane. Why on earth do you think people, ourselves included, who post on a public forum meet that criteria?
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