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Genital apposition - risk of STD/STI

I recently had a nuru massage at an asian massage parlour.
The masseuse applied a lot of oil to both her and myself (included to genitals) and gave me a body to body massage on back and front.
When I was lying on my back and she was on top of me, for a minute or so she rubbed her bare vagina up and down my bare penis, not vigorously but slowly and all the way up and down.  There was defiantly no penetration but I am now incredibly worried that I could have caught something from this activity.  Should I be?
I was hoping to receive a response from one of the doctors but I’m unsure how to direct my query to them.
Any advice or assistance would be much appreciated - thank you.
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20620809 tn?1504362969
Sorry you are so worried.  You do not need to worry at all about HIV, chlamydia or gonorrhea as those are not transmitted this way.  They require penetration which you say emphatically you say you didn't have.  HIV is inactivated by air and this is why penetration must be part of transmission.  The only way adults get HIV is from unprotected vaginal or anal sex or sharing IV drug needles.  

However, rubbing of her genitals to yours does post some risk of syphilis, herpes or HPV.  With syphilis, she' d have to have a sore.  But the others you'd not necessarily have any signs she had them. You should test for these if you develop symptoms.  With syphilis, that happens on average 3 weeks after the encounter and you can test at 6 weeks.  With Herpes, symptoms can start at 2 days and beyond and you can test at 12 weeks. HPV has a wide range of strains and time frames symptoms may show.  It's often symptomless.

Hope that helps.

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Thanks so much GR for your reply - I have read similar responses to posts from guys who had similar experiences, which is reassuring.
I’m wondering if the oil/gel that she used (a lot of), could have acted as a barrier - do you think so, or would it make no difference in chances of a skin-to-skin transmission?
I also read that HSV isn’t so easily transmitted, is that so?
Thanks again, I really do appreciate your time to respond.
It's hard to say about the oil/gel. I'm sure it hasn't been studied, and not knowing what's in it, it's hard to say.

You're correct - hsv isn't so easily transmitted. I wouldn't worry so much about this. Even if you were in a long term relationship with her, and she had hsv2, and all you did was avoid sex when she had symptoms, you'd only have a 4-5% chance of getting it per year, assuming penetrative sex 2-3x a week.

Slow rubbing for maybe a minute? It's possible, not likely.

Thanks for your comments AJ.
I really appreciate it.
Would you agree with GuitarRox about the likelihood of hiv transmission?
Absolutely. If I didn't, I would have said so. :)
Thanks for the reassurance - I am a worrier by nature, so I really should avoid situations like this.
So even though the head of my penis came into contact with her vagina, but didn’t go inside, I shouldn’t worry about HIV?
Yes, correct. HIV requires penetration.
Thanks for clarifying AJ.
Would you recommend testing?
I guess if just for peace of mind then yes.  But otherwise, should I bother?
I’m probably being a bit paranoid, but I do have a mild sore throat (now 19 days post event).  Could it be related?
No, I wouldn't recommend testing. If you have a regular partner, or this is just driving you crazy, you can get a type specific herpes IgG test, but keep in mind that those have a lot of false positives, and if you get one, it can take you down a spiral that can take months to get out of. Herpes blood tests are not conclusive until 4 months.

You can also get a syphilis test, but it's not conclusive until 6 weeks.

You really don't need to worry about any other STDs. You could be at a theoretical risk for HPV, but there is no test for men for that.

Your exposure was genital, so your infection would be genital. That means your symptoms would be genital. Your sore throat is unrelated. It's cold and flu season, so keep an eye on that. Also, depending on where you live, the air inside most places is very dry because of heating systems.

You are really worrying needlessly.
Thanks for taking the time to reply AJ and for providing reassurance.
I previously mentioned about having a mild sore throat, whereas it actually seems to be more a case of slightly swollen glands in the neck area only, for about a week now - sometimes so mild I think it’s completely gone.
I don’t have any fever or other symptoms and apart from feeling generally a bit more tired than usual, all as normal.
Would this be something completely unrelated?
I’m a bit paranoid about HIV but based on your advice and from reading advice given to others who experienced a similar situation, I keep telling myself that I shouldn’t be.
That's totally unrelated. As I said before, your symptoms would be genital, not oral or in your neck.

Your anxiety about HIV is unfounded here. You had no risk. The only way adults get HIV are from unprotected vaginal or anal sex, or sharing needles for drug use. You had none of those.

I don't know if you went outside a committed relationship, and that's contributing to your anxiety, but remember that guilt doesn't equal risk. You don't have to tell us if this is the case, but we see a lot of that here.
Thanks AJ - I really appreciate your time to respond.
I’m just a worrier by nature ...so bloody stupid of me to put myself in the situation that I did!
Re syphilis - could my swollen glands in my neck be due to that?  Would I definitely notice a sore in my genital region if it was (syphilis or herpes)?
I guess I should get checked out by my GP re the swollen glands, which are certainly not excessively swollen, only slightly tender, but the symptom has lasted for over a week now.
I know I am a little run down generally, maybe that’s all it is.
I hope that you’re right AJ about no risk of HIV - I’m still very worried, because I have this sensation in my neck which I’m guessing is lymph nodes.  There doesn’t appear to be any swelling of any real note and it’s not painful but there’s defiantly something unusual going on and has been for 10 days now.  No fever or any other symptoms, but I do feel generally quite tired (not sleeping great).
I’m worried, even though I hear you when you say I shouldn’t be.  Could it just be anxiety related?
Sorry to be a nuisance AJ.
I’m also wondering if it could make any difference that I am circumcised?
I’m just convincing myself that the symptom I’m experiencing (throat) is related.
I’m really silly to have put myself in this situation.
Okay, I understand you have anxiety, which you should absolutely address with your doctor, but as we've said a number of times, the risk for herpes, syphilis and HPV was very, very low. The risk for HIV was zero.

It's not even that I'm right, or GR is right - this is what all the experts say. We aren't just giving our opinions.

I don't know what the sensation in your neck is. It could be a hyper-awareness, fatigue, who knows? You do need to talk to your doctor about it.

Your biggest issue here is anxiety. I'm not a mental health professional, but this is going beyond being a "worrier by nature". I don't say that with criticism, but with compassion - anxiety is a real disorder that causes a lot of people a lot of anguish. Living with anxiety is a lot harder than living with herpes, for sure.

Thank you for your kind words AJ and I do agree with you.
I actually think that the sensation in my neck is probably just muscle stiffness caused by crappy pillows (poor sleep).  I often wake during the night to turn over because not comfortable.
And I admit that I am suffering from a degree of anxiety - I’m currently dealing with some difficult personal ‘life’ issues (divorce) and a turbulent new relationship ....which is why I went for a massage - to help me to relax!
I really appreciate all your time and comments, and that you’re not a mental health professional.
I realise I should cease to draw a parallel with my current situation and condition, with the incident that occurred at the massage place.
Thanks again AJ - you have helped me enormously.
Sorry AJ - it’s just the sore throat that is causing me to be anxious about it.  I‘ve been reading other threads on here which indicate that a sore throat is a classic symptom of ARS and the timing of my symptom seems to fit as well (it started 12 days after the incident and has run for 20 days so far).  It’s quite mild and there’s no obvious swelling, but it’s definitely a sore throat and nothing to do with ‘stiffness’ as I previously suspected.  No fever or rash.
I realise that I’m anxious, I just hope that I really needn’t be.  I Guess I just need to be confident in the fact that I didn’t have an exposure, but I’m still quite worried.
So listen - you didn't ask me for advice about this, but I'm going to give it anyway.

Crappy pillows can cause all kinds of problems. I have serious allergies to all kinds of things - dust is one of them. Pillows can trap all kinds of nasty crap, including dust mites. If you have an old pillow, for sure, it has tons of dust mites. It's recommended that you get a new pillow every 1-2 years. I get a new one every 6 months, but most people don't need to do it that often.

Start with getting a new pillow. You can buy one at Target or Walmart on the cheap - or whatever box store you have where you live. In the US, you can get a decent pillow for less than $15 USD.

So start there. You've already mentioned crappy pillows. If you can afford a massage, you can afford a new pillow. :) Life is too short to sleep like crap.

You didn't get HIV from this - not possible. If it was, I'd tell you.

Don't get any more massages right now - your mental health can't deal with it. If you do, get the kind where your genitals aren't coming into contact with anyone else's genitals.

Consider counseling. Going through a divorce is a LOT. No shame is getting help. The strong reach out for help when they need it, even men. ;)

There are online counselors if you don't want to go sit and talk to someone. There's TalkSpace and Better Help in the US, Helping Minds Online in Australia, Babylon in the UK (and TalkSpace is available in the UK. Inkblot is one in Canada - there are several more in all locations, and I'm not endorsing any of them - just letting you know they are options. (I also know very little about health coverages in countries other than the US, so you'll have to figure that out if you don't live in the US.)

So TL;DR - get a new pillow, you don't have HIV from this encounter, and look for therapy. :)

I really appreciate your advice AJ and I shall take it.  I’ll get some new pillows today and I have made an appointment to see a psychologist on Friday.

Thanks so much for being so supportive.
I never thought about dust mites in the pillows.
Also, just before I developed the sore throat I spent a full day cleaning at home, which involved a heck of a lot of dust and some heavy mould removal, which for sure I would have inhaled some (I wasn’t using any barrier).

I know I need to stop convincing myself that it’s due to the massage incident.
Thanks again, I am so grateful for your time and effort spent reassuring me.
(I can’t for the life of me work out what that means)!!
Ohh lol it means Too Long; Didn't Read. :) It's basically a short recap for those who skimmed over the long, wordy part.

And I'm glad to hear you made an appt with a psychologist. That's a really good thing. And enjoy your new pillows! Most people don't think much about them unless they have allergies, but they can make a big difference.

Oh if you were cleaning and had mould, I'm surprised you felt as good as you did.

Best of luck to you. We're always her if you have questions.
Thanks AJ, you’re a real gem.

Although I do believe that I never had an exposure and therefore no risk (HIV), I’m still concerned because of the symptoms (and timing of them) which I’m experiencing.

It’s not a ‘typical’ sore throat in that it’s not actually sore (e.g. no pain to swallow), but the area around my throat is definitely (I can only describe it as) inflamed, although I can’t feel any notable swelling of glands.

I did notice today that my ears were crackling a little - but not much.  I also have produced a small amount of white phlegm on a couple of occasions.

A week or so before the massage I did have a blocked and slight discomfort in one ear, which was producing some horrible brown coloured gunk (unusual).  It seemed to clear up by itself but now I’m wondering if it was an infection that has since spread to the throat area.

Of course (being anxious), and given the massage incident, despite your reassurances I still find it hard not to associate with ARS!

I’ve booked an appointment with my GP on Friday.  Hopefully will be able to work out what it is.
Although not sore to swallow, I would say that swallowing isn’t as comfortable as usual.
Really kicking myself for getting into this situation.
There is no STD that gives you any ear symptoms.

Even ARS doesn't give you ear symptoms.

You're also way outside the ARS window.

I hope you feel better soon, but you had NO HIV risk here.
I hope you’re well these days - the Covid situation has certainly evolved at an alarming rate since we last corresponded.
I’m ok.  I thought I’d let you know how things were going with me - you were so good in giving me your time and reassurances previously.
I had a full suite of STD tests performed at 29 days post incident, including a Duo test and all results were negative, which was obviously a great relief.
That said, I still have the discomfort in my neck/throat area and extending slightly to behind ears.  My GP sent me for an ultrasound scan and bloodwork, which I had earlier today.  The lady who did the scan said she didn’t notice anything unusual or obvious - no noticeable swelling of saliva ducts or lymph nodes.
So I’m still at a bit of a loss as to what is going on!
Despite my anxiety trying to get the better of me I accept that I must trust the Duo rest result and that the symptoms can not be HIV related, never mind that (as you assured me) I didn’t even have a risk to start with.
Hopefully, I will get to the bottom of it sooner than later and be able to undergo suitable treatment to bring it to a close.
Thanks again for being such a good ear and for your support.
Stay safe.
I'm happy to hear that all your tests were negative (as expected), and I sure hope you figure out what's causing your neck pain. Maybe it's time to see an Ear, Nose and Throat specialist.

You can rest assured that it is NOT related to this encounter. Whatever is going on has nothing to do with that. There is no STD that causes those symptoms, nor were you at risk for any oral STDs.

I sure hope you find the cause, and stay safe!!
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Can anyone comment or advise please? I’m pretty worried about it and looking to understand what I might be at risk of catching from the incident.  I feel very foolish and tbh quite scared.  Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
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