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Already get cold sores on my lips can I contract genital herpes through oral sex
Ok here is my question. I occassionally get cold sores or fever blisters as they are called on my lips. I have since I was a teen and I am 27 now. Last night someone I have been seeing performed oral sex on me. After I noticed a scab/bump above their lip. I could not say for sure it was a cold sore but it resembled one. I have heard that if you already get cold sores on your lips then you can not contract genital herpes from someone performing oral sex on you who has it on their lips. Because you already have the herpes virus in your system. Is this true? If not what are the chances that I have contracted gential herpes. Thank you for your help.
I am angry at the bad advice given and here is why.
I read IN DETAIL, the research paper on HSV-1 published in the April, 2003 issue of "Sexually Transmitted Diseases" journal by Dr. Anna Wald, which Dr. HHH quotes heavily when giving advice about genital HSV-1 (including the facts in the FAQ).
Here's where he is wrong:
1. The study had 77 people who came in with the initial diagnosis BY CULTURE of genital HSV-1. They were followed on average about 700 days, but some up to 4 years.
2. Of the initial 77 people in the study 4 OF THEM HAD PREVIOUS HISTORY OF ORAL HSV-1....it's right there in the table on page 2. So they contracted genital HSV-1 after having oral HSV-1.... 4 out of 77 people represents 5%...it's not a once in a million "unlucky occurence". I wish Dr. HHH would have read this before making his blanket statements that you can't catch genital HSV-1 in another location after having it orally "even if you try". BAD ADVICE! You wanted documented scientific proof not just anecdotal reports monkeyflower: Anna Wald, MD is a world renown expert in the filed and Dr. HHH admits to having learned much of his knowledge from her...it's too bad he mis-interprets her results and then passes wrong information to patients. This science does not lie.
3. Dr. HHH is also wrong in quoting the percentages of recurrence. He states in the FAQs that 40% of the study patients never had another recurrence (not true... 43% had no recurrence the first year...67% no recurrence the second year). Some of the patients recurred after taking the first year "off".
More importantly, 23 of the patients were followed into the 4th year and 11 of these (parts of the initial 77) continued to have recurrences into the 4th year. 8 of these had just one recurrences, but 3 of them had 2,3, and 4 recurrences respectively in year 4. If my math serves me correctly 11 of 77 patients represents 14% who continued to have long term recurrences. Dr. HHH still maintains that less than 10% will continue to have recurrences past 2 years. I
f you read the FAQ's you would also think that after initial diagnosis with genital HSV-1 the course is simple: you will just have 1-2 more episodes and then it will stop. It is not so. 27% had 2-8 episodes in year one of infection and 15% had 2-5 episodes in year 2.
Again I ask the question: WHY DOWNPLAY THE TRUTH ABOUT GENITAL HSV-1? Why can't you be accurate?
All this aside, I am not blaming Dr. HHH for what happened to me. I brought this on to my partner first and then, after not wearing protection 2 months later, onto myself. Yes, I was cultured genitally and I am not just imagining the symptoms. I had lesions and they responded to Valtrex.
That being said, I have a serious problem with Dr. HHH's advice to me because I specifically asked him what the chances are of my contracting HSV-1 genitally and he made me sound like a lunatic for worrying about such an issue. It's serious disregard for another person. He either knew he was giving wrong information and he did not care or he did not know he was giving out wrong information because he did not do his research well enough. Either one is worrisome for someone who has a massive website in which he dispenses "expert" information to thousands of people who panic about herpes and listen to his advice.
I read IN DETAIL, the research paper on HSV-1 published in the April, 2003 issue of "Sexually Transmitted Diseases" journal by Dr. Anna Wald, which Dr. HHH quotes heavily when giving advice about genital HSV-1 (including the facts in the FAQ).
Here's where he is wrong:
1. The study had 77 people who came in with the initial diagnosis BY CULTURE of genital HSV-1. They were followed on average about 700 days, but some up to 4 years.
2. Of the initial 77 people in the study 4 OF THEM HAD PREVIOUS HISTORY OF ORAL HSV-1....it's right there in the table on page 2. So they contracted genital HSV-1 after having oral HSV-1.... 4 out of 77 people represents 5%...it's not a once in a million "unlucky occurence". I wish Dr. HHH would have read this before making his blanket statements that you can't catch genital HSV-1 in another location after having it orally "even if you try". BAD ADVICE! You wanted documented scientific proof not just anecdotal reports monkeyflower: Anna Wald, MD is a world renown expert in the filed and Dr. HHH admits to having learned much of his knowledge from her...it's too bad he mis-interprets her results and then passes wrong information to patients. This science does not lie.
3. Dr. HHH is also wrong in quoting the percentages of recurrence. He states in the FAQs that 40% of the study patients never had another recurrence (not true... 43% had no recurrence the first year...67% no recurrence the second year). Some of the patients recurred after taking the first year "off".
More importantly, 23 of the patients were followed into the 4th year and 11 of these (parts of the initial 77) continued to have recurrences into the 4th year. 8 of these had just one recurrences, but 3 of them had 2,3, and 4 recurrences respectively in year 4. If my math serves me correctly 11 of 77 patients represents 14% who continued to have long term recurrences. Dr. HHH still maintains that less than 10% will continue to have recurrences past 2 years. I
f you read the FAQ's you would also think that after initial diagnosis with genital HSV-1 the course is simple: you will just have 1-2 more episodes and then it will stop. It is not so. 27% had 2-8 episodes in year one of infection and 15% had 2-5 episodes in year 2.
Again I ask the question: WHY DOWNPLAY THE TRUTH ABOUT GENITAL HSV-1? Why can't you be accurate?
All this aside, I am not blaming Dr. HHH for what happened to me. I brought this on to my partner first and then, after not wearing protection 2 months later, onto myself. Yes, I was cultured genitally and I am not just imagining the symptoms. I had lesions and they responded to Valtrex.
That being said, I have a serious problem with Dr. HHH's advice to me because I specifically asked him what the chances are of my contracting HSV-1 genitally and he made me sound like a lunatic for worrying about such an issue. It's serious disregard for another person. He either knew he was giving wrong information and he did not care or he did not know he was giving out wrong information because he did not do his research well enough. Either one is worrisome for someone who has a massive website in which he dispenses "expert" information to thousands of people who panic about herpes and listen to his advice.
I just downloaded the article and read it.
It states "Only Patients with documented primary
genital HSV1 infection, defined as newly acquired HSV1
infection in persons without prior antibody to HSV, were
included..."
By my read this article supports my position. In other words 4-5 per cent contacted both oral and genital HSV1 at the time
of the initial infection. I never said you couldn't get
it at both sites before your antibodies had a change to
develope.
To me it's interesting at how small these numbers of multiple
site infections were. I would expected them to be greater
as sexually incounters normally involve kissing.
This study was directed at determining the recurrances of
HSV1 outbreaks after primary infection. It does not
attempt or nor was it designed to draw any conclusions about
immunity to subsequent HSV1 infections--at least that's
my read.
Again I think that's what happened to you. I think you
contacted both oral and genital HSV1 from a past partner
and never noticed or had any genital outbreaks which is
not unusual. Maybe after your partner got it you were
just more vigilant. I don't think your girlfriend had
anything to do with it.
But there's no big deal about having HSV1 either orally or genitally. Its a non-issue and no reason to "screw up" your sex life.
It states "Only Patients with documented primary
genital HSV1 infection, defined as newly acquired HSV1
infection in persons without prior antibody to HSV, were
included..."
By my read this article supports my position. In other words 4-5 per cent contacted both oral and genital HSV1 at the time
of the initial infection. I never said you couldn't get
it at both sites before your antibodies had a change to
develope.
To me it's interesting at how small these numbers of multiple
site infections were. I would expected them to be greater
as sexually incounters normally involve kissing.
This study was directed at determining the recurrances of
HSV1 outbreaks after primary infection. It does not
attempt or nor was it designed to draw any conclusions about
immunity to subsequent HSV1 infections--at least that's
my read.
Again I think that's what happened to you. I think you
contacted both oral and genital HSV1 from a past partner
and never noticed or had any genital outbreaks which is
not unusual. Maybe after your partner got it you were
just more vigilant. I don't think your girlfriend had
anything to do with it.
But there's no big deal about having HSV1 either orally or genitally. Its a non-issue and no reason to "screw up" your sex life.
One more note on this article:
It is a bit confusing on re-read. On the first page it mentions that all 77 patients were "without prior antibody to HSV" but in the table on page 2 there are 4 patients listed with "oral HSV-1 history". If you believe the serology, then those 4 didn't really have a history of HSV-1 ....OR.... they were in the small subset of people who develop HSV infection without ever developing antibodies.
In any case, I am not sure which is correct....it makes one wonder which part of the article reflects the true story.
t1234, I would like to make an additional comment to you: I was already HSV-1 IgG positive with only oral symptoms at the time that my partner was diagnosed with genital HSV-1. 2 months later and only after we stopped using condoms, I developed genital symptoms.
It is a bit confusing on re-read. On the first page it mentions that all 77 patients were "without prior antibody to HSV" but in the table on page 2 there are 4 patients listed with "oral HSV-1 history". If you believe the serology, then those 4 didn't really have a history of HSV-1 ....OR.... they were in the small subset of people who develop HSV infection without ever developing antibodies.
In any case, I am not sure which is correct....it makes one wonder which part of the article reflects the true story.
t1234, I would like to make an additional comment to you: I was already HSV-1 IgG positive with only oral symptoms at the time that my partner was diagnosed with genital HSV-1. 2 months later and only after we stopped using condoms, I developed genital symptoms.
I don't know why you perpetuate your theory when you have not even made the simple effort to read the actual study by Dr. Anna Wald. Do me a favor and stop siding with the theory that YOU want to believe and stick with the scientific facts. The 4 people I mentioned in that study had PREVIOUS oral HSV-1 history. It's there in black and white. I tried to reproduce the table directly from the study below for you since I don't know if you will go searching for it yourself.
TABLE 1. Demographic, Behavioral, and Clinical Characteristics of Study Participants With Genital HSV-1 Infection
No. (%) of Participants or Other Value Variable All Women Men
Patients 77(100) 48 (62) 29 (38)
Age (y) at genital HSV-1 acquisition: median (range)
23 (17
TABLE 1. Demographic, Behavioral, and Clinical Characteristics of Study Participants With Genital HSV-1 Infection
No. (%) of Participants or Other Value Variable All Women Men
Patients 77(100) 48 (62) 29 (38)
Age (y) at genital HSV-1 acquisition: median (range)
23 (17
I haven't read the study but I think you're making an assumption
That may not be true.
The statement
Of the initial 77 people in the study 4 OF THEM HAD PREVIOUS HISTORY OF ORAL HSV-1....it's right there in the table on page 2. So they contracted genital HSV-1 after having oral HSV-1....
doesn't justify the conclusion you come to.
Assuming they contacted genital HSV1 after having oral
HSV1 is not evidenced by the above statement
They probably were originally HSV1 negative and contacted
Both Genital and Oral HSV1 during the first exposure before
the antibodies had a change to develop.
I think this is consistent with Dr. Handsfield's position although I don't want to speak for him.
This should be no surprise as a person with Oral HSV1 could in
Fact transmit it genitally and orally to a HSV1 negative person
Through oral sex and kissing on the mouth. Both these activities normally occur during a single sexual encounter.
In my opinion, you probably already had Genital and Oral HSV1
and just didn't realize you had it genitally. Your girlfriend,
in my opinion, never transmitted it to you
As a side note, there's a danger in trying to read into these small scale studies more than is justified. For example the
statistical failure rate of the tests may be 5 per cent.
The only way to really measure the transmission rate, if it exists, is to find a statistically significant number of couples
who are positive for oral HSV1 and measure the genital transmission rate. How you would do this with the
current technology may be a problem. Antibody tests
cannot determine where the infection is. Cultures or swabs
are not possible if the person contacting it genitally
have no symptoms.
That may not be true.
The statement
Of the initial 77 people in the study 4 OF THEM HAD PREVIOUS HISTORY OF ORAL HSV-1....it's right there in the table on page 2. So they contracted genital HSV-1 after having oral HSV-1....
doesn't justify the conclusion you come to.
Assuming they contacted genital HSV1 after having oral
HSV1 is not evidenced by the above statement
They probably were originally HSV1 negative and contacted
Both Genital and Oral HSV1 during the first exposure before
the antibodies had a change to develop.
I think this is consistent with Dr. Handsfield's position although I don't want to speak for him.
This should be no surprise as a person with Oral HSV1 could in
Fact transmit it genitally and orally to a HSV1 negative person
Through oral sex and kissing on the mouth. Both these activities normally occur during a single sexual encounter.
In my opinion, you probably already had Genital and Oral HSV1
and just didn't realize you had it genitally. Your girlfriend,
in my opinion, never transmitted it to you
As a side note, there's a danger in trying to read into these small scale studies more than is justified. For example the
statistical failure rate of the tests may be 5 per cent.
The only way to really measure the transmission rate, if it exists, is to find a statistically significant number of couples
who are positive for oral HSV1 and measure the genital transmission rate. How you would do this with the
current technology may be a problem. Antibody tests
cannot determine where the infection is. Cultures or swabs
are not possible if the person contacting it genitally
have no symptoms.
I see the table in the previous post did not come out even with the spacing work I did. Sorry that you will not be able to deschipher it but you really need to look at the actual scientific paper before you draw any more conclusions.
I wish there was a link I could give you for the full text but I had to purchase the article directly from the puiblisher online. A correction: it is in the February 2003 issue.
You may try accessing the article at this link but I can't guarantee that it will work:
(highlight, copy, and paste into your address bar):
http://www.stdjournal.com/pt/re/std/pdfhandler.00007435-200302000-00015.pdf;jsessionid=E8iFNdDGVFzPQmiDR782Fj3ZAsXya40p7RZsaQGFZoK6631WmxWk!-1551178825!-949856144!9001!-1
I wish there was a link I could give you for the full text but I had to purchase the article directly from the puiblisher online. A correction: it is in the February 2003 issue.
You may try accessing the article at this link but I can't guarantee that it will work:
(highlight, copy, and paste into your address bar):
http://www.stdjournal.com/pt/re/std/pdfhandler.00007435-200302000-00015.pdf;jsessionid=E8iFNdDGVFzPQmiDR782Fj3ZAsXya40p7RZsaQGFZoK6631WmxWk!-1551178825!-949856144!9001!-1
You are reading content posted in the STDs Forum
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
