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Is it Herpes?
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Dear Dr. HHH and gracefromHHP,
Thank you both for your comments and time.
I really appreciate your help and will follow your advices.
Best wishes,
Doubtfull
Thank you both for your comments and time.
I really appreciate your help and will follow your advices.
Best wishes,
Doubtfull
The lectroject is a total scam. It's basically a 9 volt battery. http://lectroject.googlepages.com/ is well worth reading before investing your hard earned cash on the product. Do your homework carefully- lots of snake oil salemen out there willing to hoodwink you!
There are very good reasons why you don't see folks recommending very many products besides the herpes antivirals - they just don't work and aren't worth your time and money :( Stick with acyclovir, valtrex and famvir if you want to treat your herpes.
grace
There are very good reasons why you don't see folks recommending very many products besides the herpes antivirals - they just don't work and aren't worth your time and money :( Stick with acyclovir, valtrex and famvir if you want to treat your herpes.
grace
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Most likely the original gyn was correct about pimples (or folliculitis, similar to pimples). The immune deficiency of HIV/AIDS does not cause atypical herpes. It is true that it is not possible to type herpes from a biopsy. Otherwise, the additional information does not change my opinion or my advice. Unfortunately, I don't know of any particular doctors or clinics in Mexico who are herpes experts. But most likely you can find someone, such as infectious diseases specialist, who knows where to get an accurate HSV blood test, or to send the blood to a lab in the US, if necessary.
Dear Dr. HHH,
Thank you very much for your quick response, and sorry again for my error in posting a question.
Quick followup if I may.
I live in Mexico, so I was hoping in your expertise you knew about a test or lab I can find here just to be sure, because as you can see, my healthcare providers are not experienced at all in herpes and I have wasted as you say thousands of dollars uselessly. Also, maybe you know an expert in Mexico I can go to?
I hope you don't mind, but for some reason the test results didn't paste as I had them in my word document, so here they are again. I hope they can provide a better understanding of what type (name) they are.
07/24/07 HSVII IgG = 69.2 UE/ml where 20 is +(ELISA)
HSVI IgM =13.6 UE/ml where 20 is +(ELISA)
HSVII IgM = 30.5 UE/ml where 45 is +(ELISA)
09/08/07 HSVI IgG = 59 UE/ml where 30 is +
HSVI IgM=20 UE/ml where 20 is +
HSVII IgG=43 UE/ml where 30 is +
HSVII IgM=18 UE/ml where 20 is +
Here is why I posted my HIV results, they were not a typo;
1st gyn took quick look at lesion & said it was pimple and to use loose clothing. Ordered no tests & didn’t seem knowleadgle in subject.
2nd gyn said lesions clinically resembled HSV but he was not sure, thought it could also be syphilis. Ordered tests before sending me with derm who took quick look & immediately said it was HSV, although she was surprised it was almost healed by 3rd day. Both drs didn’t seemed to knowleadble in subject either, since gyn ordered a 2nd HIV test when lesions apperead more than 3 times in 2 weeks, suggesting my defense system was low & weak, possible due to HIV & also assured me that HSV was directly related to period. I thought derm was not knowleadgle since she refused to type virus from biopsy, arguing it wasn’t possible to do so.
I've haven't tried the lectrojet, I was hoping to hear your opinion first. They claim to have improved the delivery of the drug into the body by Iontophoretic drug delivery. Now that you say you think it is quackery, I will definetly not spend more money on it.
Again, thank you for your comments, it is really reassuring to hear facts that make sense instead of so-called drs which seem clueless.
Best wishes,
Doubtful.
Thank you very much for your quick response, and sorry again for my error in posting a question.
Quick followup if I may.
I live in Mexico, so I was hoping in your expertise you knew about a test or lab I can find here just to be sure, because as you can see, my healthcare providers are not experienced at all in herpes and I have wasted as you say thousands of dollars uselessly. Also, maybe you know an expert in Mexico I can go to?
I hope you don't mind, but for some reason the test results didn't paste as I had them in my word document, so here they are again. I hope they can provide a better understanding of what type (name) they are.
07/24/07 HSVII IgG = 69.2 UE/ml where 20 is +(ELISA)
HSVI IgM =13.6 UE/ml where 20 is +(ELISA)
HSVII IgM = 30.5 UE/ml where 45 is +(ELISA)
09/08/07 HSVI IgG = 59 UE/ml where 30 is +
HSVI IgM=20 UE/ml where 20 is +
HSVII IgG=43 UE/ml where 30 is +
HSVII IgM=18 UE/ml where 20 is +
Here is why I posted my HIV results, they were not a typo;
1st gyn took quick look at lesion & said it was pimple and to use loose clothing. Ordered no tests & didn’t seem knowleadgle in subject.
2nd gyn said lesions clinically resembled HSV but he was not sure, thought it could also be syphilis. Ordered tests before sending me with derm who took quick look & immediately said it was HSV, although she was surprised it was almost healed by 3rd day. Both drs didn’t seemed to knowleadble in subject either, since gyn ordered a 2nd HIV test when lesions apperead more than 3 times in 2 weeks, suggesting my defense system was low & weak, possible due to HIV & also assured me that HSV was directly related to period. I thought derm was not knowleadgle since she refused to type virus from biopsy, arguing it wasn’t possible to do so.
I've haven't tried the lectrojet, I was hoping to hear your opinion first. They claim to have improved the delivery of the drug into the body by Iontophoretic drug delivery. Now that you say you think it is quackery, I will definetly not spend more money on it.
Again, thank you for your comments, it is really reassuring to hear facts that make sense instead of so-called drs which seem clueless.
Best wishes,
Doubtful.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
The quick summary is that I am pretty sure you do not have genital herpes. You don't say how your original episode was diagnosed in October 2005, but your wording ("I'm sure this was my first outbreak") implies a professional diagnosis was not made at that time. If it was, and if there was a confirmatory lab test, such as a positive culture from a lesion, then the diagnosis is secure. But it is improbable based on everything else you say.
I'm not familiar with the test result numbers you provide and cannot tell whether you have had truly type specific tests, or older ones that claim to be type specific but are not. At a minimum, the IgM results are not type specific; no type specific IgM test exists, even if the lab stipulates IgM results for HSV-1 or HSV-2. (Minor semantic point: the virus is named HSV-1 or -2, i.e. Arabic numerals, not Roman.) Further, all IgM testing is inherently unreliable; whether positive or negative, it makes little difference in diagnosing HSV infections in adults, whether new or old, recurrent or asymptomatic.
As for the IgG results, it looks like you might be positive for HSV-2, but if the test in fact is not type-specific, the only conclusion from all your blood test results is that you are infected with HSV-1, HSV-2, or both, with no ability to predict with certainty which it is.
I'm not sure why you have provided your HIV results. Presumably you really mean HIV, not a typo for HSV. Whether you were HIV positive or negative would have no bearing on whether or not you have genital herpes.
Turning away from the lab tests, your description of your outbreaks is not compatible with genital herpes. Recurrent GH lesions are pretty much always limited to one side or the other of the body's midline (up to an including the midline, but not both sides); uncommonly occur in the pubic hair area; and cannot progress to vesicle/blister and on to healing in less than 7-10 days. And herpes recurrences rarely occur monthly; every 2-4 months (3-6 times a year) is typical.
Now to the specific questions:
1) Proably you don't have genital herpes.
2) See above. You should talk with your provider about which lab s/he is using and what tests the lab does. Do not have any further IgM testing. If you are in the US, request testing by a lab that uses the Focus Technologies test (HerpeSelect); if in the UK or certain other countries, ask for the Kalon test. In the US, HerpeSelect is the routine test at the major national labs, such as LabCorps or Quest.
3) Looking for HSV by pap smear (also known as the Tzanck test) is highly unreliable and not recommended by anybody who understands herpes well. I can't understand why a provider would do that test instead of a culture or PCR for the virus.
4) The ability of a biopsy to diagnose HSV probably depends on the skill and experience of the pathologist who examines the tissue under the microscope. It's not an easy determination and could easily be wrong either way.
5) Your symptoms don't suggest any other STD aside from herpes.
6) I never heard of lectroject. From a quick look at the website, I believe it is quackery. Acyclovir works by being taken systemically, not by putting it on or injecting it into herpes lesions.
In summary, it is possible you have genital herpes but I doubt it. If you do, herpes is not the cause of most of the symptoms you describe. Find a truly herpes knowledgeable health care provider, discuss this advice with him or her, and get a proper HSV blood test. Also, when your next outbreak occurs, have a culture or polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test for HSV. Aside from the uncertainty you are experiencing, I fear you have paid thousands of dollars for essentially useless diagnostic tests and perhaps attempts at treatment (although you don't say whether you have actually tried Lectroject). It's time for proper medical care.
Good luck-- HHH, MD
I'm not familiar with the test result numbers you provide and cannot tell whether you have had truly type specific tests, or older ones that claim to be type specific but are not. At a minimum, the IgM results are not type specific; no type specific IgM test exists, even if the lab stipulates IgM results for HSV-1 or HSV-2. (Minor semantic point: the virus is named HSV-1 or -2, i.e. Arabic numerals, not Roman.) Further, all IgM testing is inherently unreliable; whether positive or negative, it makes little difference in diagnosing HSV infections in adults, whether new or old, recurrent or asymptomatic.
As for the IgG results, it looks like you might be positive for HSV-2, but if the test in fact is not type-specific, the only conclusion from all your blood test results is that you are infected with HSV-1, HSV-2, or both, with no ability to predict with certainty which it is.
I'm not sure why you have provided your HIV results. Presumably you really mean HIV, not a typo for HSV. Whether you were HIV positive or negative would have no bearing on whether or not you have genital herpes.
Turning away from the lab tests, your description of your outbreaks is not compatible with genital herpes. Recurrent GH lesions are pretty much always limited to one side or the other of the body's midline (up to an including the midline, but not both sides); uncommonly occur in the pubic hair area; and cannot progress to vesicle/blister and on to healing in less than 7-10 days. And herpes recurrences rarely occur monthly; every 2-4 months (3-6 times a year) is typical.
Now to the specific questions:
1) Proably you don't have genital herpes.
2) See above. You should talk with your provider about which lab s/he is using and what tests the lab does. Do not have any further IgM testing. If you are in the US, request testing by a lab that uses the Focus Technologies test (HerpeSelect); if in the UK or certain other countries, ask for the Kalon test. In the US, HerpeSelect is the routine test at the major national labs, such as LabCorps or Quest.
3) Looking for HSV by pap smear (also known as the Tzanck test) is highly unreliable and not recommended by anybody who understands herpes well. I can't understand why a provider would do that test instead of a culture or PCR for the virus.
4) The ability of a biopsy to diagnose HSV probably depends on the skill and experience of the pathologist who examines the tissue under the microscope. It's not an easy determination and could easily be wrong either way.
5) Your symptoms don't suggest any other STD aside from herpes.
6) I never heard of lectroject. From a quick look at the website, I believe it is quackery. Acyclovir works by being taken systemically, not by putting it on or injecting it into herpes lesions.
In summary, it is possible you have genital herpes but I doubt it. If you do, herpes is not the cause of most of the symptoms you describe. Find a truly herpes knowledgeable health care provider, discuss this advice with him or her, and get a proper HSV blood test. Also, when your next outbreak occurs, have a culture or polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test for HSV. Aside from the uncertainty you are experiencing, I fear you have paid thousands of dollars for essentially useless diagnostic tests and perhaps attempts at treatment (although you don't say whether you have actually tried Lectroject). It's time for proper medical care.
Good luck-- HHH, MD
Dear Dr.
Sorry for my mistake. Since I have struggling with this for 2 years, I have a lot of info. Here is the truly 2,000 limit question. Sorry again.
Dear Drs.
Congratulations on great website & thx for all the help provided.
Female, 28 y/o. 3 encounters ever, 2 unprotected, 1 protected in May & June ’05 (last encounter 06/15/05). Partner of unknown status, denied having HSV. By mid Oct/05, 1st lesion of possible genital HSV appears with NO other symptoms, I'm positive this was 1st OB.
Lesions are atypical always appearing where pubic hair exists, switching sides from midline & appearing far apart in each episode, i.e, they can appear above vagina or on either side, as low as halfway down in reference of the vagina (never inside of vagina). Before lesion appears I get prodome with itching, feeling as if the hairs are being pulled & then area turns red before blister appears, being no wider in diam than 1/4 inch, but most of the times much smaller, sort of pimple-like. Blister lasts no more than 24 hours before drying & falling out with daily shower. In conclusion, lesion always heals before 3 days & they never scab. Lesions have been constantly appearing at least every month. Here is timeline I made since I started reading forum;
9/10/07
10/09/07
10/12/07
10/20/07
11/08/07
Here is timeline of tests;
10/02/06 HIV antibody test type I & 2 = neg
06/21/07 HPV detected on pap
07/24/07 HSVII IgG = 69.2 UE/ml where 20 is +(ELISA)
HSVI IgM =13.6 UE/ml where 20 is +(ELISA)
HSVII IgM = 30.5 UE/ml where 45 is +(ELISA)
08/08/07 Pap smear on lesion = -
08/21/07 ATP = - by inmunoflouresnce method.
09/08/07 HSVI IgG = 59 UE/ml where 30 is +
HSVI IgM=20 UE/ml where 20 is +
HSVII IgG=43 UE/ml where 30 is +
HSVII IgM=18 UE/ml where 20 is +
09/19/07 Biopsy =compatible with HSV
11/10/07 HIV antibody test type I & 2 = -
1.Do I have HSV? Are symptoms related to HSV?
2.How reliable are my blood test results, since reference values don't resemble anything posted before?
3.Can pap smear give false neg? What are the chances?
4.Can biopsy give false pos? What are the chances? Is it conclusive?
5.Should I get more tests? Which ones?
6. Do I have HSV & another STD/disease?
6.Finally & most important, what do you think of lectrojet (http://www.lectroject.com/)? Is it worth the shot? (Please please take a look at the website).
Thank you in advance for your kind support.
Best wishes,
Doubful
Sorry for my mistake. Since I have struggling with this for 2 years, I have a lot of info. Here is the truly 2,000 limit question. Sorry again.
Dear Drs.
Congratulations on great website & thx for all the help provided.
Female, 28 y/o. 3 encounters ever, 2 unprotected, 1 protected in May & June ’05 (last encounter 06/15/05). Partner of unknown status, denied having HSV. By mid Oct/05, 1st lesion of possible genital HSV appears with NO other symptoms, I'm positive this was 1st OB.
Lesions are atypical always appearing where pubic hair exists, switching sides from midline & appearing far apart in each episode, i.e, they can appear above vagina or on either side, as low as halfway down in reference of the vagina (never inside of vagina). Before lesion appears I get prodome with itching, feeling as if the hairs are being pulled & then area turns red before blister appears, being no wider in diam than 1/4 inch, but most of the times much smaller, sort of pimple-like. Blister lasts no more than 24 hours before drying & falling out with daily shower. In conclusion, lesion always heals before 3 days & they never scab. Lesions have been constantly appearing at least every month. Here is timeline I made since I started reading forum;
9/10/07
10/09/07
10/12/07
10/20/07
11/08/07
Here is timeline of tests;
10/02/06 HIV antibody test type I & 2 = neg
06/21/07 HPV detected on pap
07/24/07 HSVII IgG = 69.2 UE/ml where 20 is +(ELISA)
HSVI IgM =13.6 UE/ml where 20 is +(ELISA)
HSVII IgM = 30.5 UE/ml where 45 is +(ELISA)
08/08/07 Pap smear on lesion = -
08/21/07 ATP = - by inmunoflouresnce method.
09/08/07 HSVI IgG = 59 UE/ml where 30 is +
HSVI IgM=20 UE/ml where 20 is +
HSVII IgG=43 UE/ml where 30 is +
HSVII IgM=18 UE/ml where 20 is +
09/19/07 Biopsy =compatible with HSV
11/10/07 HIV antibody test type I & 2 = -
1.Do I have HSV? Are symptoms related to HSV?
2.How reliable are my blood test results, since reference values don't resemble anything posted before?
3.Can pap smear give false neg? What are the chances?
4.Can biopsy give false pos? What are the chances? Is it conclusive?
5.Should I get more tests? Which ones?
6. Do I have HSV & another STD/disease?
6.Finally & most important, what do you think of lectrojet (http://www.lectroject.com/)? Is it worth the shot? (Please please take a look at the website).
Thank you in advance for your kind support.
Best wishes,
Doubful
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
You may not circumvent the 2000 character limit by putting a hyper-long question in a comment. Use the comment field to ask a truly 2000-limited question; there will be no response until you do that.
You are reading content posted in the STDs Forum
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
