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An STD question I've never pondered
Greetings....
I've had sex with a number of different partners over the years, and I've almost always practiced what I considered safe sex. While having sex today with a woman from Eastern Europe (I'm living in Paris now) who is an escort, I chose not to have intercourse or oral sex because of my worries over diseases. I played with her vagina and clitoris, as did she, and then I masturbated until orgasm. She masturbated me and herself, too. There was never any genital to genital contact or oral genital contact.
Yes, I'm experiencing some anxiety from this encounter, I freely admit it. But the whole thing made me wonder: is there no risk from the fluids transmitted from her to me via our hands? Her vaginal excretions were all over my fingers and hers, and we were both playing with my penis. Obviously there is no risk because I've NEVER read of anything like that causing an STD, but I'm really puzzled as to why it doesn't. Fluids are fluids, right? Shouldn't there be some risk? Or is it really so incredibly impossibly that no one has even thought of it.
Thanks for answering the question. Yes, I'm going to relax and get a good nights sleep. But I appreciate the answer nonetheless.
I've had sex with a number of different partners over the years, and I've almost always practiced what I considered safe sex. While having sex today with a woman from Eastern Europe (I'm living in Paris now) who is an escort, I chose not to have intercourse or oral sex because of my worries over diseases. I played with her vagina and clitoris, as did she, and then I masturbated until orgasm. She masturbated me and herself, too. There was never any genital to genital contact or oral genital contact.
Yes, I'm experiencing some anxiety from this encounter, I freely admit it. But the whole thing made me wonder: is there no risk from the fluids transmitted from her to me via our hands? Her vaginal excretions were all over my fingers and hers, and we were both playing with my penis. Obviously there is no risk because I've NEVER read of anything like that causing an STD, but I'm really puzzled as to why it doesn't. Fluids are fluids, right? Shouldn't there be some risk? Or is it really so incredibly impossibly that no one has even thought of it.
Thanks for answering the question. Yes, I'm going to relax and get a good nights sleep. But I appreciate the answer nonetheless.
Thanks again for the comments and help. I really appreciate the service you offer. Merci!
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Lice and scabies are transmitted nonsexually as well as sexually. Sharing a bed or clothing is sufficient for transmission.
To my knowledge I have never commented on STD risks based on a sex worker's hygiene or the apparent cleanness of her surroundings. I have only said that higher cost of services and insistence on routine condom use are probably marks of relative safety.
Thanks for the thanks about the safe sex article and for the idea about an article about commercial sex workers. The problem is there are no data on sex workers etc; everything I have said on this forum is common sense, not scientific.
That's all for this thread. Take care.
To my knowledge I have never commented on STD risks based on a sex worker's hygiene or the apparent cleanness of her surroundings. I have only said that higher cost of services and insistence on routine condom use are probably marks of relative safety.
Thanks for the thanks about the safe sex article and for the idea about an article about commercial sex workers. The problem is there are no data on sex workers etc; everything I have said on this forum is common sense, not scientific.
That's all for this thread. Take care.
Thank you for a great answer. Having studied microbiology a bit, I was really curious and appreciate your thorough answer. I suppose this applies to just about anything classified as a STD: scabies, pubic lice, etc.? There really must be optimum circumstances for infection to occur, or for the little critters like lice to transfer.
Am I also correct in thinking that, when it comes to commercial sex workers, a lot depends upon the escort? I've read some of your other posts on this topic, and it seems to be the case that:
*if the escort is clean, has a relatively clean apartment/hotel, obviously bathes, etc., then the risk of acquiring STDs like lice and scabies is almost zero? (I'm not sure why, but the prospect of getting lice/scabies causes me more anxiety than other STDs.)
*If the escort seems to be proactive about STDs (insists on using a condom for oral sex and intercourse), then the likelihood of her having an STD herself is minimal?
It almost seems like a game of Russian roulette to get an STD, almost like one has to just keep trying and trying and trying. Sometimes the loaded chamber is the first one, and BANG. But more often than not, you live to tell the tale.
By the way, I read your Knol article on SAFE SEX. Excellent article. Might I suggest, given the number of questions you receive on this forum about escorts and sex workers that you do an article specifically related to that topic? I think it would be greatly appreciated by all the obviously nervous men out their who have had an "encounter" with a escort.
Am I also correct in thinking that, when it comes to commercial sex workers, a lot depends upon the escort? I've read some of your other posts on this topic, and it seems to be the case that:
*if the escort is clean, has a relatively clean apartment/hotel, obviously bathes, etc., then the risk of acquiring STDs like lice and scabies is almost zero? (I'm not sure why, but the prospect of getting lice/scabies causes me more anxiety than other STDs.)
*If the escort seems to be proactive about STDs (insists on using a condom for oral sex and intercourse), then the likelihood of her having an STD herself is minimal?
It almost seems like a game of Russian roulette to get an STD, almost like one has to just keep trying and trying and trying. Sometimes the loaded chamber is the first one, and BANG. But more often than not, you live to tell the tale.
By the way, I read your Knol article on SAFE SEX. Excellent article. Might I suggest, given the number of questions you receive on this forum about escorts and sex workers that you do an article specifically related to that topic? I think it would be greatly appreciated by all the obviously nervous men out their who have had an "encounter" with a escort.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Welcome to the forum. As we have said many times on this forum, hand-genital contact carries little or no risk of STD transmission. But perhaps it is time to go into a bit more detail as to the reasons.
The most common exception probably is HPV, and heavy petting with hand-genital contact may explain some genital HPV infections in young people who claim never to have had intercourse. But even those are rare events. Can I imagine a theoretical risk for other STDs? Yes, but only through very unlikely circumstances. For example, if a woman had chlamydia, her hands had vaginal fluid on them, and she deliberately massaged the fluid into her partner's urethral opening, transmission just might occur. Or if there were a preexisting penile sore and HSV-infected secretions were massaged into it, herpes transmission might occur. But outside such circumstances, it's hard (for me) to imagine a risk of transmission -- and that assumption is corroborated by the fact that in my 30+ years in the STD business, I have never seen or even heard of an STD case in a patient whose only contact had been mutual masturbation.
But I think I can guess the origin of your confusion. Like many people without medical training, you might assume that "just one virus" (or bacteria) is enough to transmit infetion. That isn't the case. Typically substantial numbers of organisms, and therefore substantial amounts of infected secretions, have to get into just the right place. The actual amount varies from one infection to another. For example, it takes swallowing about 50-100 Shigella bacteria to cause bacterial dysentery; 10, 20, or 30 bugs don't result in infection. For Salmonella, with similar symptoms as dystentery, human volunteers have to swallow 50,000 to 100,000 bacteria for the infection to take. Similar diseases but very different susceptibility.
There may be a few infections where "just one" is sufficient to cause a bad outcome; rabies and ebola come to mind. But the STDs evolved as sexually transmitted precisely BECAUSE they are hard to transmit. It takes large number of bugs that get introduced in special ways -- deep inside the body for chlamydia or gonorrhea, or under the superficial layers of skin for herpes, syphilis, and HPV; superficial contact with the skin isn't enough.
If you think about it, this only makes sense. If these germs could be transmitted by hand-genital contact or by superficial skin contact, they would be far more common than they are and cases would be showing up all the time in non-sexual contacts, e.g. people who share moist towels, toilets, etc with infected people -- and that never happens. Indeed, if these things could happen, they wouldn't be classified as sexually transmitted, period.
In summary, can I guarantee no risk of STD from your recent adventures with the escort? No. But somehow I doubt you're going to be the first such case I have come across in the last 3 decades.
I hope this helps. Best wishes-- HHH, MD
The most common exception probably is HPV, and heavy petting with hand-genital contact may explain some genital HPV infections in young people who claim never to have had intercourse. But even those are rare events. Can I imagine a theoretical risk for other STDs? Yes, but only through very unlikely circumstances. For example, if a woman had chlamydia, her hands had vaginal fluid on them, and she deliberately massaged the fluid into her partner's urethral opening, transmission just might occur. Or if there were a preexisting penile sore and HSV-infected secretions were massaged into it, herpes transmission might occur. But outside such circumstances, it's hard (for me) to imagine a risk of transmission -- and that assumption is corroborated by the fact that in my 30+ years in the STD business, I have never seen or even heard of an STD case in a patient whose only contact had been mutual masturbation.
But I think I can guess the origin of your confusion. Like many people without medical training, you might assume that "just one virus" (or bacteria) is enough to transmit infetion. That isn't the case. Typically substantial numbers of organisms, and therefore substantial amounts of infected secretions, have to get into just the right place. The actual amount varies from one infection to another. For example, it takes swallowing about 50-100 Shigella bacteria to cause bacterial dysentery; 10, 20, or 30 bugs don't result in infection. For Salmonella, with similar symptoms as dystentery, human volunteers have to swallow 50,000 to 100,000 bacteria for the infection to take. Similar diseases but very different susceptibility.
There may be a few infections where "just one" is sufficient to cause a bad outcome; rabies and ebola come to mind. But the STDs evolved as sexually transmitted precisely BECAUSE they are hard to transmit. It takes large number of bugs that get introduced in special ways -- deep inside the body for chlamydia or gonorrhea, or under the superficial layers of skin for herpes, syphilis, and HPV; superficial contact with the skin isn't enough.
If you think about it, this only makes sense. If these germs could be transmitted by hand-genital contact or by superficial skin contact, they would be far more common than they are and cases would be showing up all the time in non-sexual contacts, e.g. people who share moist towels, toilets, etc with infected people -- and that never happens. Indeed, if these things could happen, they wouldn't be classified as sexually transmitted, period.
In summary, can I guarantee no risk of STD from your recent adventures with the escort? No. But somehow I doubt you're going to be the first such case I have come across in the last 3 decades.
I hope this helps. Best wishes-- HHH, MD
You are reading content posted in the STDs Forum
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
