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Syphilis Question
Dear Dr.
Thank you for your time and help.
I am a married man.
During a recent vacation, I made a bad judgement call and tried oral sex with a man. I gave him oral sex for roughly three or four minutes. No ***, but some pre-***. At approximately 6.5 weeks following, I noticed a hard, slightly painful pustule on my left tonsil with my tongue. The next day, the pustule erupted into a slightly painful ulcer. I didn't experience a fever or sore throat, just a slightly sore ulcer. When I gargled diluted vinegar, the ulcer had a white center and red edges, then went back to mostly being red. The ulcer healed totally in one week.
I became alarmed, and ordered a home access hiv test. I sent it off at 7.5 weeks and recieved a negative result. Since then, I have been considering the following:
How common is it to get a primary chancre on the tonsil?
Is my description consistant with a primary chacre?
Could I give syphilis to my wife by kissing her if I had a primary chancre on my tonsil? If so, would she need to touch it with her tonge (on my tonsil) or would there be sufficient bacteria in my mouth to transmit it without direct contact with the chancre on my tonsil?
Are there any home tests for syphilis? I am in a remote location and do not have access to testing except home test kits.
Thank you so much for your time and dedication to this forum. It is a great help.
Thank you for your time and help.
I am a married man.
During a recent vacation, I made a bad judgement call and tried oral sex with a man. I gave him oral sex for roughly three or four minutes. No ***, but some pre-***. At approximately 6.5 weeks following, I noticed a hard, slightly painful pustule on my left tonsil with my tongue. The next day, the pustule erupted into a slightly painful ulcer. I didn't experience a fever or sore throat, just a slightly sore ulcer. When I gargled diluted vinegar, the ulcer had a white center and red edges, then went back to mostly being red. The ulcer healed totally in one week.
I became alarmed, and ordered a home access hiv test. I sent it off at 7.5 weeks and recieved a negative result. Since then, I have been considering the following:
How common is it to get a primary chancre on the tonsil?
Is my description consistant with a primary chacre?
Could I give syphilis to my wife by kissing her if I had a primary chancre on my tonsil? If so, would she need to touch it with her tonge (on my tonsil) or would there be sufficient bacteria in my mouth to transmit it without direct contact with the chancre on my tonsil?
Are there any home tests for syphilis? I am in a remote location and do not have access to testing except home test kits.
Thank you so much for your time and dedication to this forum. It is a great help.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Congratulations. Nice start on a happy new year for you!
Well, I got test results. Negative on all counts.. no syphilis, no hiv.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Kissing transmits syphilis only if infectious lesions are present in the infected person's mouth. Asymptomatic lesions like that sometimes occur in secondary syphilis.
I can't say whether the tonsil would have had to come into such direct contact. Probably yes, but not necessarily.
Chancres can be of any size.
That has to be the limit on this thread. Report back when you have had proper diagnostic testing, if you choose to do that. Until then, it is pointless to speculate. I continue to believe it is very unlikely you have syphilis, but testing will tell the story.
I can't say whether the tonsil would have had to come into such direct contact. Probably yes, but not necessarily.
Chancres can be of any size.
That has to be the limit on this thread. Report back when you have had proper diagnostic testing, if you choose to do that. Until then, it is pointless to speculate. I continue to believe it is very unlikely you have syphilis, but testing will tell the story.
Dr.
I hope this isn't one too many questions, but I still have some if you don't mind.
Everything I have read states that direct contact must be made with a chancre/lesion for transmission of syphilis to occur. However, you stated that it can be transmitted via kissing without direct contact. Can you explain the mechanism by which this would happen?
Also, in order to get a chancre on my tonsil, would my tonsil need to have touched his penis? In other words, does the chancre occur exactly where the bacteria entered the mucosa?
One last thing - the sore in question was approx. 1/4 cm in diameter and was accompanied by swollen tonsil.. is this consistent w/ syphilitic chancre?
thanks
I hope this isn't one too many questions, but I still have some if you don't mind.
Everything I have read states that direct contact must be made with a chancre/lesion for transmission of syphilis to occur. However, you stated that it can be transmitted via kissing without direct contact. Can you explain the mechanism by which this would happen?
Also, in order to get a chancre on my tonsil, would my tonsil need to have touched his penis? In other words, does the chancre occur exactly where the bacteria entered the mucosa?
One last thing - the sore in question was approx. 1/4 cm in diameter and was accompanied by swollen tonsil.. is this consistent w/ syphilitic chancre?
thanks
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
It's true; new syphilis is less than half as frequent as HIV. Believe it.
So, if .66 * 20,000 = 13200 cases of syphilis are reported among gay men each year, that would make it more rare than hiv? wow.. that is rare! Is this true?
Indeed, there are no clinics where I am. It really *****, to put it bluntly.
I need definitive results, though, so I suppose I will be buying a ticket. I thank you for your candid answers. They certainly helped me when I got tested for HIV and now will help when I get tested for syphilis.
I guess I will just have to try not to have much kissing with my wife until then. I am going to tell her eventually, but I want to have all of my ducks in a row before hand. I sincerely hope that she will not leave me, but I made the decision to do what I did... I sure hope I didn't give her anything. Until finding this forum, I had utterly no idea how many STDs can be transmitted via oral sex and would not have had the encounter had I been more educated.
Thanks again for your assistance.
I need definitive results, though, so I suppose I will be buying a ticket. I thank you for your candid answers. They certainly helped me when I got tested for HIV and now will help when I get tested for syphilis.
I guess I will just have to try not to have much kissing with my wife until then. I am going to tell her eventually, but I want to have all of my ducks in a row before hand. I sincerely hope that she will not leave me, but I made the decision to do what I did... I sure hope I didn't give her anything. Until finding this forum, I had utterly no idea how many STDs can be transmitted via oral sex and would not have had the encounter had I been more educated.
Thanks again for your assistance.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Pretty impressive tongue!
I am unaware of any data on specific locations for intra-oral chancres. I see no reason why it could not be on the tonsil.
The risk of transmission surely is related to the length and "depth" of a kiss. A superficial peck on the lips probably carries no measurable risk, but I cannot say more than that.
It is unlikely you have syphilis, but unfortunately testing is the only way to know. Presumably there is no public health clinic or other medical facility less than a plane ride away.
I am unaware of any data on specific locations for intra-oral chancres. I see no reason why it could not be on the tonsil.
The risk of transmission surely is related to the length and "depth" of a kiss. A superficial peck on the lips probably carries no measurable risk, but I cannot say more than that.
It is unlikely you have syphilis, but unfortunately testing is the only way to know. Presumably there is no public health clinic or other medical facility less than a plane ride away.
Thank you for your answer.
I can feel the tonsil with the tip of my tongue. I guess I am gifted in that respect. For example, I can clean tonsiliths with the tip of my tongue.
Is chancre of the tonsil common in oral syphilis?
I will need to get a plane ticket to fly to a clinic to get tested. I have been trying to just kiss my wife on the lips (not french).. is that safe? I haven't had oral sex and only made love with her once since the trip and that was before the lesion appeared.
I can feel the tonsil with the tip of my tongue. I guess I am gifted in that respect. For example, I can clean tonsiliths with the tip of my tongue.
Is chancre of the tonsil common in oral syphilis?
I will need to get a plane ticket to fly to a clinic to get tested. I have been trying to just kiss my wife on the lips (not french).. is that safe? I haven't had oral sex and only made love with her once since the trip and that was before the lesion appeared.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Welcome to the STD forum.
Oral sex between men carries potential risk of syphilis. Although there are only about 20,000 cases of syphilis per year in the entire US, two thirds of those occur in gay men. Still, your risk is statistically very low. Oral exposure can occur but is uncommon.
I'm a little puzzled by the location of your lesion. The tonsils are way in the back of the throat, and nobody can feel his tonsil with his tongue. Wherever the sore was, the description doesn't sound like a chancre, which doesn't usually start with a pimple-like lesion and rarely heals in only a week. But if it was a chancre, you definitely could transmit it to your wife by kissing or oral sex, even without direct contact of the ulcer itself with her skin, tongue, etc.
All things considered, it is very unlikely your oral lesion was due to syphilis. However, the only way to know for sure is to have a blood test. There are no short cuts, and there are no home-based syphilis tests. You're going to have to find a way to see a health care provider, or have blood drawn and sent to a qualified laboratory. You can expect it to be negative, and in the meantime I wouldn't be very worried. But find a way to get tested in the not too distant future.
Good luck-- HHH, MD
Oral sex between men carries potential risk of syphilis. Although there are only about 20,000 cases of syphilis per year in the entire US, two thirds of those occur in gay men. Still, your risk is statistically very low. Oral exposure can occur but is uncommon.
I'm a little puzzled by the location of your lesion. The tonsils are way in the back of the throat, and nobody can feel his tonsil with his tongue. Wherever the sore was, the description doesn't sound like a chancre, which doesn't usually start with a pimple-like lesion and rarely heals in only a week. But if it was a chancre, you definitely could transmit it to your wife by kissing or oral sex, even without direct contact of the ulcer itself with her skin, tongue, etc.
All things considered, it is very unlikely your oral lesion was due to syphilis. However, the only way to know for sure is to have a blood test. There are no short cuts, and there are no home-based syphilis tests. You're going to have to find a way to see a health care provider, or have blood drawn and sent to a qualified laboratory. You can expect it to be negative, and in the meantime I wouldn't be very worried. But find a way to get tested in the not too distant future.
Good luck-- HHH, MD
You are reading content posted in the STDs Forum
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
