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senior man - what is OK
I was married for 45 years and my late wife and I contracted genital herpes "somehow" early in our marriage: we were both monogamous after marriage. We lived with it and it did not inhibit our sex life and as time went on outbreaks were quite infrequent. My wife passed away and I have recently met a very special woman and we have become sexually active, for me the most wonderful sex of my life. But we are both very concerned that she remains unaffected.
My doctor advises:
(1) always use a condom even when there is no outbreak and we are willing to do so, although we would both prefer to not use a condom if I have no symptoms (I only get outbreaks maybe once a year, or less and I get the tingling in my upper legs so I know when they are coming)
(2) The scary advice is that she can get the virus from me anyway just from touching me when there is no outbreak
We would like to know what sex fondling can we do that is safe for her? Is it OK for her to fondle my penis if she does not touch herself in her vagina, or mouth until she washes her hands. What about if I touch my penis to put on a condom, should I not touch her in vulnerable areas until I wash my hands? We both like me to give her oral sex and I feel certain that's OK. I have told her that she should not give me oral sex, although we would both like to do so. Also we like to dance and push our genitals together: is this risky.
Any real-world advice will be very much appreciated as I adore this woman and I want her in my life and fear I may lose her if she gets the virus.
My doctor advises:
(1) always use a condom even when there is no outbreak and we are willing to do so, although we would both prefer to not use a condom if I have no symptoms (I only get outbreaks maybe once a year, or less and I get the tingling in my upper legs so I know when they are coming)
(2) The scary advice is that she can get the virus from me anyway just from touching me when there is no outbreak
We would like to know what sex fondling can we do that is safe for her? Is it OK for her to fondle my penis if she does not touch herself in her vagina, or mouth until she washes her hands. What about if I touch my penis to put on a condom, should I not touch her in vulnerable areas until I wash my hands? We both like me to give her oral sex and I feel certain that's OK. I have told her that she should not give me oral sex, although we would both like to do so. Also we like to dance and push our genitals together: is this risky.
Any real-world advice will be very much appreciated as I adore this woman and I want her in my life and fear I may lose her if she gets the virus.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for your question.
Congratulations on the romance you have found. My overriding advice is to not permit herpes to interfere in any significant way; you already describe a more restricted sex life than is necessary.
But for more precise advice, tell me some things. First, it is likely your (and your wife's) herpes was due to HSV-2, but has that been confirmed? Did you or she have testing of virus from an outbreak, or a blood test, to determine virus type? It makes a big difference in the potential risk for your new partner. Also tell me your outbreak history, especially in thepast few years. How often and exactly where on your body?
Your new partner should have an HSV blood test herself. HSV infections of both types are sufficiently common that you might find she is already infected with the same type you have. If so, she is immune, or at least highly resistant, and won't catch it again -- in which case you need not take any precautions at all.
OK, now let's assume the most likely scenario: you have genital HSV-2 and your partner does not. It is true that there are no guarantees against transmission, if you have anything like a normal sex life. On the other hand, you can significantly reduce the risk: consistent condom use for intercourse (vaginal or anal); take suppressive anti-herpes therapy, preferably with valacyclovir; and avoid sex, as you apparently are doing, if an when you have an obvious outbreak. If you do these things, the odds are good your partner will never be infected.
Beyond that, if I were in your enviable circumstance, I would not take any other precautions. For example, oral sex is very safe -- although not completely free risk that your partner would acquire an oral infection, such transmission is uncommon -- and in any case would be largely prevented by valacyclovir treatment.
Finally, how important is preventing herpes to your partner? Would it be a big deal if she caught your infection? You and your wife lived with the problem for decades, presumably with mutually rewarding and romantic sex. Why not the same if your new partner caught your infection? With such highly effective treatment available, if it happened, her initial infection would be promptly treated, and future outbreaks could be largely prevented. The available drugs -- valacyclovir an others -- have almost no side effects. For these reasons, many committed couples in which one partner had herpes decide to let nature take its course, or take simple precautions only.
Of course these aren't your decisions alone. Depending on your mutual circumstances, perhaps she would want to take every precaution, against the possibility that she will date other men in the future -- and won't want to face what you are facing. But even then, the precautions outlined above will be very effective.
I look forward to continuing this conversation after you fill in some of the missing details. In the meantime, I hope this has been a useful start.
Regards-- HHH, MD
Congratulations on the romance you have found. My overriding advice is to not permit herpes to interfere in any significant way; you already describe a more restricted sex life than is necessary.
But for more precise advice, tell me some things. First, it is likely your (and your wife's) herpes was due to HSV-2, but has that been confirmed? Did you or she have testing of virus from an outbreak, or a blood test, to determine virus type? It makes a big difference in the potential risk for your new partner. Also tell me your outbreak history, especially in thepast few years. How often and exactly where on your body?
Your new partner should have an HSV blood test herself. HSV infections of both types are sufficiently common that you might find she is already infected with the same type you have. If so, she is immune, or at least highly resistant, and won't catch it again -- in which case you need not take any precautions at all.
OK, now let's assume the most likely scenario: you have genital HSV-2 and your partner does not. It is true that there are no guarantees against transmission, if you have anything like a normal sex life. On the other hand, you can significantly reduce the risk: consistent condom use for intercourse (vaginal or anal); take suppressive anti-herpes therapy, preferably with valacyclovir; and avoid sex, as you apparently are doing, if an when you have an obvious outbreak. If you do these things, the odds are good your partner will never be infected.
Beyond that, if I were in your enviable circumstance, I would not take any other precautions. For example, oral sex is very safe -- although not completely free risk that your partner would acquire an oral infection, such transmission is uncommon -- and in any case would be largely prevented by valacyclovir treatment.
Finally, how important is preventing herpes to your partner? Would it be a big deal if she caught your infection? You and your wife lived with the problem for decades, presumably with mutually rewarding and romantic sex. Why not the same if your new partner caught your infection? With such highly effective treatment available, if it happened, her initial infection would be promptly treated, and future outbreaks could be largely prevented. The available drugs -- valacyclovir an others -- have almost no side effects. For these reasons, many committed couples in which one partner had herpes decide to let nature take its course, or take simple precautions only.
Of course these aren't your decisions alone. Depending on your mutual circumstances, perhaps she would want to take every precaution, against the possibility that she will date other men in the future -- and won't want to face what you are facing. But even then, the precautions outlined above will be very effective.
I look forward to continuing this conversation after you fill in some of the missing details. In the meantime, I hope this has been a useful start.
Regards-- HHH, MD
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
In theory, any genital fluid could contain the virus. However, primarily HSV is transmitted by skin-to-skin contact.
I'll be interested in your test result. As discussed, your new partner should be tested as well. But let's hold off on further discussion until the results are available.
I'll be interested in your test result. As discussed, your new partner should be tested as well. But let's hold off on further discussion until the results are available.
Dear Dr HHH
I have arranged to go to Vancouver for a test and my partner is going to get a requisition from her Dr
We would like to know if my pre-ejaculation fluid can carry the virus. Not that it matters but I had a prostatectomy ten years ago and as a consequence I do not ejaculate but produce a large amount of this pre-seminal fliud
I have arranged to go to Vancouver for a test and my partner is going to get a requisition from her Dr
We would like to know if my pre-ejaculation fluid can carry the virus. Not that it matters but I had a prostatectomy ten years ago and as a consequence I do not ejaculate but produce a large amount of this pre-seminal fliud
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
It doesn't completely eliminate the possibility of HSV-1, but I agree HSV-2 is more likely. In any case, this doesn't change any of my recommendations above, either about sexual practices or testing.
Dear Dr HHH
Thanks again for your reply - I fully understand your advice. However, based on the other thread, it would seem to me that I must have HSV-2. Early in my marriage, probably 35-40 years ago, when we first realised we were infected, the outbreaks were quite frequent, maybe 3 to 4 times in a year and initially quite painful. So from what your wrote previously, that would point to HSV-2 and possibly eliminate the likelihood of it being HSV-1.
Thanks again for your reply - I fully understand your advice. However, based on the other thread, it would seem to me that I must have HSV-2. Early in my marriage, probably 35-40 years ago, when we first realised we were infected, the outbreaks were quite frequent, maybe 3 to 4 times in a year and initially quite painful. So from what your wrote previously, that would point to HSV-2 and possibly eliminate the likelihood of it being HSV-1.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
It sounds like you have had a very typical case of genital herpes. Genital HSV-2 usually causes more frequent outbreaks than you have experienced, so HSV-1 is plausible, and aquiring it by oral sex also would fit. On the other hand, HSV-2 outbreak frequency declines over time. Also, as noted above, people are resistant to new infections with the same virus type they have, and probably especially resistant to second infections with the same strain they already are carrying. Therefore, it would be very unusual for your wife to acquire genital herpes with the same strain that had previously been strictly oral.
So I really can't predict which HSV type you have, and would recommend a blood test to determine it. (If you have an outbreak, it could be tested for virus type -- but that may not happen for a long time, so a blood test is the way to go.)
I'm glad your doctor is understanding and cooperative -- but I'm afraid he doesn't understand that genital HSV-1 versus HSV-2 are quite different in their recurrence frequency, potential for sexual transmission, and need for (and benefits of) suppressive treatment. And the treatment really isn't the same. Compared with HSV-2, HSV-1 requires higher doses of valacyclovir or related drugs. For these reasons, knowing virus type is central to proper management of genital herpes. Below is a link to a thread that addresses these issues in detail. It's very good to know your doctor appears to be open to learning more. Consider printing out and showing him this discussion and that in the other thread.
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/STDs/Herpes-Confuses-Me/show/1414935
In summary, I do recommend that both you and your new partner have blood tests for HSV-1 and 2 and that, pending the results, you ask your doctor for a prescription for valacyclovir to suppress your infection, reducing the risk of transmission to your partner. The treatment can be stopped if the blood tests show no need. I'll be interested in knowing your test results when they are available. In the meantime, with suppressive therapy plus condoms, you and your partner should feel comfortable going ahead with whatever sexual practices you both find pleasurable.
So I really can't predict which HSV type you have, and would recommend a blood test to determine it. (If you have an outbreak, it could be tested for virus type -- but that may not happen for a long time, so a blood test is the way to go.)
I'm glad your doctor is understanding and cooperative -- but I'm afraid he doesn't understand that genital HSV-1 versus HSV-2 are quite different in their recurrence frequency, potential for sexual transmission, and need for (and benefits of) suppressive treatment. And the treatment really isn't the same. Compared with HSV-2, HSV-1 requires higher doses of valacyclovir or related drugs. For these reasons, knowing virus type is central to proper management of genital herpes. Below is a link to a thread that addresses these issues in detail. It's very good to know your doctor appears to be open to learning more. Consider printing out and showing him this discussion and that in the other thread.
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/STDs/Herpes-Confuses-Me/show/1414935
In summary, I do recommend that both you and your new partner have blood tests for HSV-1 and 2 and that, pending the results, you ask your doctor for a prescription for valacyclovir to suppress your infection, reducing the risk of transmission to your partner. The treatment can be stopped if the blood tests show no need. I'll be interested in knowing your test results when they are available. In the meantime, with suppressive therapy plus condoms, you and your partner should feel comfortable going ahead with whatever sexual practices you both find pleasurable.
I did not answer your question about location of outbreaks. They occur on the shaft of my penis and sometimes in the area ajacent to my anus
Thank you so much for this response and your sound advice. Neither my late wife nor I were ever tested. Based on the fact that our outbreaks continued over many years, albeit that they were not frequent, I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that it was HSV-2. Although the most likely explanation of our getting it was that my wife was often getting cold sores on her mouth and I did think that it started during her giving me oral sex and then transmitted back to her during intercourse.
My outbreaks occur perhaps once, max twice per year and sometimes none in a year. I did ask my family doctor about getting the type tested and his response was that the treatment for either is the same so why bother? He is very understanding and cooperative so if you recommend doing so I will approach him again and request a test,
My outbreaks occur perhaps once, max twice per year and sometimes none in a year. I did ask my family doctor about getting the type tested and his response was that the treatment for either is the same so why bother? He is very understanding and cooperative so if you recommend doing so I will approach him again and request a test,
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
I forgot to comment on your nationality, which may be significant because of aberrant attitudes about the HSV blood tests reflected in Canada's public health STD guidelines. In much of your country, physicians and clinics refuse to order HSV blood tests (see the thread linked below). However, I see you're in BC -- and I'm pretty sure testing is readily available at the public health STD clinic in Vancouver and/or through UBC's clinics. Or if necessary, hop across the border and get tested in Bellingham or Seattle.
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/1612258
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/1612258
You are reading content posted in the STDs Forum
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
