Aa
Reference Ranges
Thank you for your previous responses. I wanted to post one more time w/ all relevant info for your comment. If you can reply to all questions that follow, I would really appreciate it.
I have been feeling fatigued for several years, I can't concentrate, I've started feeling dizzy...and many more symptoms.
I have had my TSH, Free T4 tested but they are "normal."
In addition, I had my AM cortisol, ACTH and DHEA tested:
AM Cortisol 10.1 (4-22)
ACTH 9 (5-27)
DHEA 47 (40-325)
I had my AM cortisol tested three years ago b/c of no hair growing under arms, forearms, knuckles, legs, and losing considerable hair on my head...at this time it was 18.8 on the same range.
Symptoms suggestive of adrenal problem:
- Still no hair growing under arms, forearms, knuckles, legs, and loss on scalp.
- Unrefreshed sleep, hard time getting out of bed in morning (I used to exercise then, can't get up now)
- Wake up several nights a week at about 2 or 3 and can't get back to sleep until 5 or 6.
- During period, goes for 3 days, stops 1 or 2 days, then starts again
- Three previous labwork showed low CO2 levels: 19 (21-33); 19 (21-33) and 18 (21-33)
- Sensitivity to bright light -- do a flashlight test and pupils constrict and dialate (don't stay constricted)
- The flu wipes me out -- I don't get out of bed for days, too tired
- Crave sweets and alchohol -- not a drinker and salt
- Have dark circles -- gotten worse
- Always have big reaction to bug bites -- swell with mosquito bite
THANK YOU!!
I have been feeling fatigued for several years, I can't concentrate, I've started feeling dizzy...and many more symptoms.
I have had my TSH, Free T4 tested but they are "normal."
In addition, I had my AM cortisol, ACTH and DHEA tested:
AM Cortisol 10.1 (4-22)
ACTH 9 (5-27)
DHEA 47 (40-325)
I had my AM cortisol tested three years ago b/c of no hair growing under arms, forearms, knuckles, legs, and losing considerable hair on my head...at this time it was 18.8 on the same range.
Symptoms suggestive of adrenal problem:
- Still no hair growing under arms, forearms, knuckles, legs, and loss on scalp.
- Unrefreshed sleep, hard time getting out of bed in morning (I used to exercise then, can't get up now)
- Wake up several nights a week at about 2 or 3 and can't get back to sleep until 5 or 6.
- During period, goes for 3 days, stops 1 or 2 days, then starts again
- Three previous labwork showed low CO2 levels: 19 (21-33); 19 (21-33) and 18 (21-33)
- Sensitivity to bright light -- do a flashlight test and pupils constrict and dialate (don't stay constricted)
- The flu wipes me out -- I don't get out of bed for days, too tired
- Crave sweets and alchohol -- not a drinker and salt
- Have dark circles -- gotten worse
- Always have big reaction to bug bites -- swell with mosquito bite
THANK YOU!!
A related discussion, adrenal fatigue was started.
Hi. Are you suggesting the the problem is Lupus or low progesterone? Or Lupus caused by low progesterone?
The reason I ask is that my progesterone is actually slightly high -- perhaps hard to say a constant since it changes throughout the cycle.
I also spoke to my ob/gyn b/c thought maybe my hormones were fluctuating b/c I was peri-menopausal but she told me I was too young to worry about menopause (pre-menopause) as I am only 37...
It's not fun to be told you're fine when you don't sleep well, don't want to get up in the morning, and feel like you're exhausted all day (not to mention hair loss, weight gain, dry skin, irritability) despite having a "good" lifestyle.
I have low stress, eat protein, fruits/veggies, limit caffeine (or none), try to exercise (lately this has been harder and/or I am wiped out for a couple of days after). My life is much easier than a lot of people and I don't honestly know if I would survive if life presented me a challenge. I used to feel as if I could conquer the world -- no more. But mostly I would like to be more even-tempered and energetic. Give me those two and I don't care if I'm fat and bald.
Thanks for your input and letting me rant.
Take care.
The reason I ask is that my progesterone is actually slightly high -- perhaps hard to say a constant since it changes throughout the cycle.
I also spoke to my ob/gyn b/c thought maybe my hormones were fluctuating b/c I was peri-menopausal but she told me I was too young to worry about menopause (pre-menopause) as I am only 37...
It's not fun to be told you're fine when you don't sleep well, don't want to get up in the morning, and feel like you're exhausted all day (not to mention hair loss, weight gain, dry skin, irritability) despite having a "good" lifestyle.
I have low stress, eat protein, fruits/veggies, limit caffeine (or none), try to exercise (lately this has been harder and/or I am wiped out for a couple of days after). My life is much easier than a lot of people and I don't honestly know if I would survive if life presented me a challenge. I used to feel as if I could conquer the world -- no more. But mostly I would like to be more even-tempered and energetic. Give me those two and I don't care if I'm fat and bald.
Thanks for your input and letting me rant.
Take care.
Hope this helps wonderme and dixie:
I was diagnosed with lupus SLE in 2002.
Rheumatologist only treated symptoms, so I did research on my own.
READ: What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause
by Dr. John Lee
It talks about how women in the U.S. are estrogen dominant/progesterone deficient, which can cause many health problems -- autoimmune disorders included. The book talks about supplementation with NATURAL progesterone, not synthetic (which I tried with horrible side effects).
Through salivary testing, I found that I have low progesterone and low-normal cortisol.
I bought natural progesterone cream from Whole Foods Market and applied it per Dr. Lee's instructions in the book.
Felt like a healthy person again within a week.
I have since gotten my ob/gyn to prescribe me a compounded natural progesterone so I know it's fresh and actually the real thing.
I have been to endocrinologists and have taken all the tests:
hi dose ACTH, lo dose ACTH, metyrapone, all blood panels. Everything in my endocrine system is working fine. I know my lupus is caused by my low progesterone problem. Of course, no doctor will say that the lupus is caused by low progesterone, but my lupus symptoms subside when I am on natural progesterone. Doctors have told me that it has to be something else I'm doing or eating, and not the natural progesterone. I disagree with them.
I was diagnosed with lupus SLE in 2002.
Rheumatologist only treated symptoms, so I did research on my own.
READ: What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause
by Dr. John Lee
It talks about how women in the U.S. are estrogen dominant/progesterone deficient, which can cause many health problems -- autoimmune disorders included. The book talks about supplementation with NATURAL progesterone, not synthetic (which I tried with horrible side effects).
Through salivary testing, I found that I have low progesterone and low-normal cortisol.
I bought natural progesterone cream from Whole Foods Market and applied it per Dr. Lee's instructions in the book.
Felt like a healthy person again within a week.
I have since gotten my ob/gyn to prescribe me a compounded natural progesterone so I know it's fresh and actually the real thing.
I have been to endocrinologists and have taken all the tests:
hi dose ACTH, lo dose ACTH, metyrapone, all blood panels. Everything in my endocrine system is working fine. I know my lupus is caused by my low progesterone problem. Of course, no doctor will say that the lupus is caused by low progesterone, but my lupus symptoms subside when I am on natural progesterone. Doctors have told me that it has to be something else I'm doing or eating, and not the natural progesterone. I disagree with them.
ANA means antinuclear(anti-DNA) antibodies. If positive, could mean have autoimmune disorder, thyroid, or nothing. I would get it tested. If you have direct access to specialists, maybe make appt with rheumatologist and get all autoimmune tests done and get it over with. However, regardless of what tests show for me (i.e. lupus), going to the naturopath for treatment so cause can be treated (possibly low progesterone and cause of what makes it low?). Refuse here to take synthetic drugs for the symptoms, and never get better.
Also, have you had your progesterone tested? From my file, found that mine is 0.5! Nobody ever told me this either! Need to have it tested again I think during the luteal phase. Progesterone is precursor for all of the adrenal cortex hormones and if low wreaks havoc on your body, and causes thyroid problems, osteoporosis, and so on. Did a search and found info on The Analyst about it, and was floored. Asking new doc about possibly using natural progesterone cream, I'm sure my current doc would never recommend it.
Hope you figure out what is happening with you, too. New book I just bought 'Natural Cures They Don't Want You to Know About', by Kevin Trudeau. The first few chapters expose the pharmaceutical industry, FDA, FTC, etc and how they are in the business of keeping people sick. I skipped through other parts of the book and agree with much of what he says, but question or don't believe in some of what he recommends.
Anyway, time to take a nap, I'm always in need of one! Hope you get to the bottom of your issues, too!
Keep me posted....
Also, have you had your progesterone tested? From my file, found that mine is 0.5! Nobody ever told me this either! Need to have it tested again I think during the luteal phase. Progesterone is precursor for all of the adrenal cortex hormones and if low wreaks havoc on your body, and causes thyroid problems, osteoporosis, and so on. Did a search and found info on The Analyst about it, and was floored. Asking new doc about possibly using natural progesterone cream, I'm sure my current doc would never recommend it.
Hope you figure out what is happening with you, too. New book I just bought 'Natural Cures They Don't Want You to Know About', by Kevin Trudeau. The first few chapters expose the pharmaceutical industry, FDA, FTC, etc and how they are in the business of keeping people sick. I skipped through other parts of the book and agree with much of what he says, but question or don't believe in some of what he recommends.
Anyway, time to take a nap, I'm always in need of one! Hope you get to the bottom of your issues, too!
Keep me posted....
Dixie,
Thank you -- I'm going to get my hands on the book. I already eat organic -- was concerned about all the hormones in the foods my kids were eating...so switched milk, fruits, veggies, etc...
I've never had an ANA test -- not sure what it is.
Interestingly I went to the doc on Friday b/c I was dizzy for a week or so -- seems I have a chronic sinus infection, BUT in mid-afternoon with an infection, the temp my doc got was 97.8 orally. No comment from them. My blood pressure is good -- usually 108/60 or 65. My pulse is also good at 60-65 -- although I'm not much of an athelete, it just stays in a good range.
Anyway, still waiting to hear from the endo who I'm pretty sure is going to tell me that there's no reason to see them. I have virtually no energy to fight this battle, so I may go it alone.
We'll see. Let me know how you're feeling and if you get your test results. I hope you're doing okay.
Thanks again for your advice.
Thank you -- I'm going to get my hands on the book. I already eat organic -- was concerned about all the hormones in the foods my kids were eating...so switched milk, fruits, veggies, etc...
I've never had an ANA test -- not sure what it is.
Interestingly I went to the doc on Friday b/c I was dizzy for a week or so -- seems I have a chronic sinus infection, BUT in mid-afternoon with an infection, the temp my doc got was 97.8 orally. No comment from them. My blood pressure is good -- usually 108/60 or 65. My pulse is also good at 60-65 -- although I'm not much of an athelete, it just stays in a good range.
Anyway, still waiting to hear from the endo who I'm pretty sure is going to tell me that there's no reason to see them. I have virtually no energy to fight this battle, so I may go it alone.
We'll see. Let me know how you're feeling and if you get your test results. I hope you're doing okay.
Thanks again for your advice.
Hi!
The book is 'Adrenal Fatigue, the 21st Century Stress Syndrome' by Dr. James Wilson. As for salt, I would wait until you get tested for aldosterone, but if you crave salt that is an indication that it is probably low. Plus, do you have low blood pressure?
Extract I take has Siberian Ginseng(eleuthero) and Licorice Root in it. Put it in herbal tea, so alcohol used for extraction evaporates. I started on 2000 mg/dau of good quality Vit C. It has ratio of Vit C to bioflavinoids of 1:2. Starting taking good mixed tocopherol Vit E, 800 iu/day. Waiting for naturopath to test me before adding anything else. By the way, found out my CO2 was tested, and showed as 21. That is the very lowest score for 'normal'. Hmmmm.
I started on the above supplementation based on what the book recommends. There is lots more, but want to wait to get test results and find out what my new doc recommends. Pantothenic acid is highly indicated, something like 1200 mg/day. I may need somewhat less than than or more than that. Vit C and E aren't a problem to use in higher quantities in normal situations, so went ahead and dove in.
The book will explain everything, including what supplements, vitamins, herbs are needed/beneficial, and salt intake.
By the way, have you thought about making an appointment with a rheumatologist to rule out lupus or something else? I am going to be tested for lupus, RA, etc not only because of abnormal ANA test, but because DHEA is low. Supposedly low DHEA can be a sign of lupus and RA. Just found this out yesterday from reading a copy of notes from my last appt. My doctor's office was supposed to call me to tell me to see a rheumatologist, but never did! The doc should have told this directly to me anyway!! Maybe he didn't want to scare me though by saying I could have lupus, but at least he should have told me to see a rheumat. Talk about wanting to ring someone's neck!
If do have either, most autoimmune problems are caused from adrenal condition. Probably is reason for my probable Hashimoto's. However, want to be treated altogether for the reason for the adrenal problem in the first place, not treatment for the symptoms of the autoimmune disorder(s). Low dose cortisol may be needed for awhile to help me function, but want all the natural measures taken to reverse the entire thing. That's what the naturopath is for, and eating very well. Organic, and lots of raw foods. Ever hear of the raw foods diet? Look into it.
Enjoy the weekend!
The book is 'Adrenal Fatigue, the 21st Century Stress Syndrome' by Dr. James Wilson. As for salt, I would wait until you get tested for aldosterone, but if you crave salt that is an indication that it is probably low. Plus, do you have low blood pressure?
Extract I take has Siberian Ginseng(eleuthero) and Licorice Root in it. Put it in herbal tea, so alcohol used for extraction evaporates. I started on 2000 mg/dau of good quality Vit C. It has ratio of Vit C to bioflavinoids of 1:2. Starting taking good mixed tocopherol Vit E, 800 iu/day. Waiting for naturopath to test me before adding anything else. By the way, found out my CO2 was tested, and showed as 21. That is the very lowest score for 'normal'. Hmmmm.
I started on the above supplementation based on what the book recommends. There is lots more, but want to wait to get test results and find out what my new doc recommends. Pantothenic acid is highly indicated, something like 1200 mg/day. I may need somewhat less than than or more than that. Vit C and E aren't a problem to use in higher quantities in normal situations, so went ahead and dove in.
The book will explain everything, including what supplements, vitamins, herbs are needed/beneficial, and salt intake.
By the way, have you thought about making an appointment with a rheumatologist to rule out lupus or something else? I am going to be tested for lupus, RA, etc not only because of abnormal ANA test, but because DHEA is low. Supposedly low DHEA can be a sign of lupus and RA. Just found this out yesterday from reading a copy of notes from my last appt. My doctor's office was supposed to call me to tell me to see a rheumatologist, but never did! The doc should have told this directly to me anyway!! Maybe he didn't want to scare me though by saying I could have lupus, but at least he should have told me to see a rheumat. Talk about wanting to ring someone's neck!
If do have either, most autoimmune problems are caused from adrenal condition. Probably is reason for my probable Hashimoto's. However, want to be treated altogether for the reason for the adrenal problem in the first place, not treatment for the symptoms of the autoimmune disorder(s). Low dose cortisol may be needed for awhile to help me function, but want all the natural measures taken to reverse the entire thing. That's what the naturopath is for, and eating very well. Organic, and lots of raw foods. Ever hear of the raw foods diet? Look into it.
Enjoy the weekend!
Good to hear that I could help you.
Yes, it is the same with your adrenals as it is with your thyroid. Just because you are within 'normal' range doesn't mean that your reading is normal for you. I barely even function. I would find a naturopath that is experienced in diagnosing and treating adrenal fatigue for treatment. Most of mainstream medicine does not recognize it and people just get worse, and I for one don't want to end up with adrenal 'insufficiency', a.k.a. Addison's. We both definitely have risk factors.
Make sure to get tested for the other adrenal cortex hormones aldosterone, 'free' testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone, as well as GH(growth hormone from pituitary) also. An ACTH stim test, like the doc mentioned, is important to make sure you don't have Addison's...which your symptoms don't seem to warrant though. I can't emphasize more getting the book I mentioned, you will be so happy you did. The questionnaire itself is worth the price of the book!
As for supplementing with hydrocortisone, some people definitely need and benefit from it. Taking adrenal cortex extracts are always beneficial no matter what your level of adrenal fatigue. Some people take both. The book talks about all of this in great detail, and will help you approach a doctor about everything. Definitely need to work with a doctor so you can be tested and monitored for progress. Seek a naturopath or you won't ever be considered for taking cortisol/adrenal extracts. Naturopath will also do many other tests to see what nutrition supplements you need to take, and whether or not there are additional things contributing to your fatigue. I have read that everyone with adrenal fatigue has high copper in their system, and mercury can cause fatigue, so heavy metal test important.
I don't know about the CO2 levels and am so glad you mentioned them. I am going to check out the site you mentioned, and talk to my new doctor about it.
One thing I must mention...thank your lucky stars for having a supportive husband!! I am single, but do have a very supportive family and friends.
Yes, it is the same with your adrenals as it is with your thyroid. Just because you are within 'normal' range doesn't mean that your reading is normal for you. I barely even function. I would find a naturopath that is experienced in diagnosing and treating adrenal fatigue for treatment. Most of mainstream medicine does not recognize it and people just get worse, and I for one don't want to end up with adrenal 'insufficiency', a.k.a. Addison's. We both definitely have risk factors.
Make sure to get tested for the other adrenal cortex hormones aldosterone, 'free' testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone, as well as GH(growth hormone from pituitary) also. An ACTH stim test, like the doc mentioned, is important to make sure you don't have Addison's...which your symptoms don't seem to warrant though. I can't emphasize more getting the book I mentioned, you will be so happy you did. The questionnaire itself is worth the price of the book!
As for supplementing with hydrocortisone, some people definitely need and benefit from it. Taking adrenal cortex extracts are always beneficial no matter what your level of adrenal fatigue. Some people take both. The book talks about all of this in great detail, and will help you approach a doctor about everything. Definitely need to work with a doctor so you can be tested and monitored for progress. Seek a naturopath or you won't ever be considered for taking cortisol/adrenal extracts. Naturopath will also do many other tests to see what nutrition supplements you need to take, and whether or not there are additional things contributing to your fatigue. I have read that everyone with adrenal fatigue has high copper in their system, and mercury can cause fatigue, so heavy metal test important.
I don't know about the CO2 levels and am so glad you mentioned them. I am going to check out the site you mentioned, and talk to my new doctor about it.
One thing I must mention...thank your lucky stars for having a supportive husband!! I am single, but do have a very supportive family and friends.
Dixie,
Thanks for the feedback...I feel like I'm going in circles.
I have had my antibodies tested and they came back <35 (Range <35) so that doesn't seem to be an issue.
Thinking I may need some cortisol -- what are your thoughts on the ranges? If you're in the "range" then you're okay? OR,could it just not be enough for you (as is suggested for thyroid) OR for you at that time?
I wonder b/c I'm so tired in the morning and during the day, sometimes better early evening, and often wake up in the middle of the night. Trying to get a saliva test to check the pattern...
Also, have you seen any mention of low CO2 levels? It has come back low on any bloodwork I've had done that they've checked it -- whether routine physical or when I feel terrible. There is a site www.digitalnaturopath.com that lists low CO2 as a risk factor for adrenal insufficiency. It discusses signs/symptoms, conditions, risk factors, etc. I, of cource, have virtually all of them except any diagnosis of a condition.
Anyway, what do you think about ranges for these things and about trying some hydrocortisone? THANKS!
Thanks for the feedback...I feel like I'm going in circles.
I have had my antibodies tested and they came back <35 (Range <35) so that doesn't seem to be an issue.
Thinking I may need some cortisol -- what are your thoughts on the ranges? If you're in the "range" then you're okay? OR,could it just not be enough for you (as is suggested for thyroid) OR for you at that time?
I wonder b/c I'm so tired in the morning and during the day, sometimes better early evening, and often wake up in the middle of the night. Trying to get a saliva test to check the pattern...
Also, have you seen any mention of low CO2 levels? It has come back low on any bloodwork I've had done that they've checked it -- whether routine physical or when I feel terrible. There is a site www.digitalnaturopath.com that lists low CO2 as a risk factor for adrenal insufficiency. It discusses signs/symptoms, conditions, risk factors, etc. I, of cource, have virtually all of them except any diagnosis of a condition.
Anyway, what do you think about ranges for these things and about trying some hydrocortisone? THANKS!
Dixie,
Thanks again...I posted a different message to you below too b/c I keep getting turned around where I'm looking for you.
Can you please remind me the name of the book? I've had a few suggested to me, but your situation seems so similar to mine that I think this would be the best starting point for me.
Where do you find a naturopath? Phone book -- I'll look there. I have so many doctors to choose from in my provider directory, but no naturopaths...and luckily I don't need a referral for a specialist. I feel like a dolt, but I've never done this before.
Also, what extracts are you referring to? Can you suggest some to try...what about vitamins and my note about sea salt? Thanks!
You, too, are very lucky to have supportive friends and family. I wish you the best.
Thanks again...I posted a different message to you below too b/c I keep getting turned around where I'm looking for you.
Can you please remind me the name of the book? I've had a few suggested to me, but your situation seems so similar to mine that I think this would be the best starting point for me.
Where do you find a naturopath? Phone book -- I'll look there. I have so many doctors to choose from in my provider directory, but no naturopaths...and luckily I don't need a referral for a specialist. I feel like a dolt, but I've never done this before.
Also, what extracts are you referring to? Can you suggest some to try...what about vitamins and my note about sea salt? Thanks!
You, too, are very lucky to have supportive friends and family. I wish you the best.
One more addition...
The ACTH stim test the doctor mentions above is what is used to diagnose Addison's Disease. I hope that comes out normal, meaning your adrenals aren't in a crisis state (yet). He still seems to be ignoring the issue of adrenal fatigue saying 'this should address the adrenal issue'. Also, a positive ANA result isn't just for non-thyroid autoimmune problems. It could be indicative of Hashimoto's thyroiditis, or just a regular thryoid problem, or even nothing. Around 5% of the population have elevated ANAs and have nothing wrong with them. The way the doctor stated that was misleading.
The ACTH stim test the doctor mentions above is what is used to diagnose Addison's Disease. I hope that comes out normal, meaning your adrenals aren't in a crisis state (yet). He still seems to be ignoring the issue of adrenal fatigue saying 'this should address the adrenal issue'. Also, a positive ANA result isn't just for non-thyroid autoimmune problems. It could be indicative of Hashimoto's thyroiditis, or just a regular thryoid problem, or even nothing. Around 5% of the population have elevated ANAs and have nothing wrong with them. The way the doctor stated that was misleading.
Low cortisol. Cortisol is an antiinflammatory hormone. When it is low, there is not much to combat the histamine release that causes swelling after a bite, injury, etc. Could easily be the reason for what wonderme posted. Her am cortisol is near the low end of the range for 'normal', and probably is waxing and waning as the day goes by according to what she has described in other posts.
Dixie1
Dixie1
Just out of curiousity-- how is increased swelling from insect bites related to endocrine issues? When I get bitten, it's usually the size of a golf ball. If it's behind my knee, I can't even bend. I thought it was just a sensitivity. Could this be endocrine as well? Thanks.
Hi again!
I wrote a longer message back to you in the other section, please read it! We are very much alike, and no you are not 'normal'! These endo docs need to listen to our symptoms and realize we are all genetically different individuals. My doctor seems not to be able to understand why I really can't work. Imagine that! Hello!! Guess you have to have Addison's for most docs to think you are in dire straits.
Dixie
I wrote a longer message back to you in the other section, please read it! We are very much alike, and no you are not 'normal'! These endo docs need to listen to our symptoms and realize we are all genetically different individuals. My doctor seems not to be able to understand why I really can't work. Imagine that! Hello!! Guess you have to have Addison's for most docs to think you are in dire straits.
Dixie
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Would do an ACTH stim test with cortisol, DHEA and aldosterone levels at baseline, 30, 60 min -- this should address the adrenal issues.
The CO2 level is not specifically a problem.
Also test testosterone level. The lack of body hair in certain places is tough to pinpoint to a specific disease.
Consider testing for non-thyroid autoimmune disease such as ANA and sedimentation rate. And add thyroid antibodies to next labs.
If all normal then get a neurological consult.
The CO2 level is not specifically a problem.
Also test testosterone level. The lack of body hair in certain places is tough to pinpoint to a specific disease.
Consider testing for non-thyroid autoimmune disease such as ANA and sedimentation rate. And add thyroid antibodies to next labs.
If all normal then get a neurological consult.
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