I have had many calcium oxalate kidney stones and my para's are ok after repeated tests. Crystals can be the pre-cursor, as I understand, to calcium oxalate stones OR they can be small pieces that have broken off an actual stone. If your para's aren't working right you may be producing too much calcium and stones can form. Not sure on the Low D except to be sure they treat you with supplements if they agree. Mine was very low and felt better with supplemental D.
Hope this helps and WELCOME~!!
I have been having some flank (both sides) pain in waves, along with lower abdomen and back pain. I have never had a kidney or bladder stone before so I do not have any idea of the symptoms.
I am not taking a Vitamin D supplement at this time, as it is my understanding, If you have a PT issue taking Vit D can increase your symptoms of pain. I just don't think my hips and legs can take anymore pain!
Thank You for the quick response and the information. Much Appreciated ~sass~
Oh yeah, baby. Been there and done the whole parathyroid tumor/kidney stone thing (7 stones in 2 years!)
They are horrible. Worse than 45 hours of labor and natural childbirth.
So, here is what is probably going on (at least it was my experience.) As your PTH level increases, it signals your bones to release more calcium (thus the bone and joint pain.) Your body does not need the extra calcium in your blood, so it does everything in its power to get rid of the excess -and it can do a pretty good job for a while. It does this by flushing it out (thus the increasing frequency of urination.) Finally, the body reaches a point where it can no longer keep up, and the calcium level builds and makes you symptomatic. The higher concentration of calcium collects in the kidneys forming crystals and stones.
Over a 4 year period I had increasing symptoms of bone/joint/muscle pain, heart burn, headaches, gut and hormone problems (Dr said I was perimenopausal at age 38), low blood sugar issues, and urinary frequency. The last two years I began to throw kidney stones, and like an idiot, I walked them off (passed them) at home instead of going to the Dr. (I'm a paramedic and we don't make very good patients.)
It finally took one getting stuck, a diagnosis of hypercalcemia, and an argument with my Dr to get me to an endocrinologist who did a sestamibi scan, finding the tumor. At that point I was urinating every 30 mins 24/7, my gut motility was almost nonexistent (5-7 days between "eliminations" -sorry, TMI) and my blood pressure and heart rate were so high I had to be on beta blockers (heart medicine) at age 42. There was much more, but I sure you see the point.
I was a new person after I got the bugger out. No more pain, no more headaches, no more flank pain and stones.
If you start having that pain again, you are probably passing a stone. They are famous for causing urinary tract infections and can make you quite sick. I kept pyridium on hand (brand name of Uro-stat in the US) and used it to dull urinary tract pain when I was passing a stone. Cranberry juice worked well to combat infection.
I can so identify with how miserable you must feel. I am wondering what the Drs are waiting for. Your PTH and calcium levels should be at opposite ends of the ranges if one of them is high -they should NEVER be high or one normal/one high at the same time. ~MM
Sassy, you have to get the parathyroid checked. You have TOO many signs, and really high calcium test to prove it. Will your endo do a scan?
Right now I am having throbbing, stabbing pains in my side, both sides...lower back stabs, lower shoulder blade pain and throbbing pain, the hips feel like hippos moved in and are giving birth thru my skin! Then having stomach /abdomen pain . These all comes in waves. Not a constant.
The only other thing I can think of is My Calcium is 10 and my Vitamin D is 27! Maybe it is a parathyroid issue. But my endo and MD does not think it is. Calcium has been 10.7 in the past! PTH is 65 ( if my memory serves me right)
Danie: He wants to wait 3 months and retest! Don't know how to convince him to scan it sooner. MD thinks my kidneys are dehydrated.
Tell him he is high if you are going to wait that long. Insist on a Sestamibi scan -your PTH should be less than 20 when your calcium is 10.0. The vitamin D is probably a separate issue on its own, or your body is refusing to absorb it because it changes to calcitonin (sp?) which adds calcium to your bones which is where the calcium in your blood is coming from. Your poor body is getting mixed signals and it will respond by trying to preserve itself first.
By the way, -your Dr is blowing smoke up your tailpipe. Kidneys don't get dehydrated, your body does. Your kidneys are trying frantically to keep your calcium levels down. You can help it by drinking more water, but it can only help so much. Calcium crystals are caused by excess calcium being removed from from your blood. If you had chronic dehydration, you would have urea crystals/stones instead.
Think about this. How many times a day do you have to urinate? A well-hydrated person goes every 2-3 hours. A dehydrated one goes once every 6-12 hours. A person who is trying to get rid of excess sugar or calcium in their blood can go as often as every 30 minutes -and is usually thirsty.
My advice is to be a "squeaky wheel". Drs are often pushed to action when their patients are persistent and relentless. (Anything to get rid of them!) Sassy, this may save your life or keep you from having a stroke, this is how important this could be...~MM
I forgot. More than likely you have hydronephrosis (kidneys get backed up) secondary to trying to get a stone to pass or you have a stone that is on it's way down a ureter. Are you nauseated or vomiting? Do you have a fever? Do you feel a constant urge to urinate? You really should go to the ER and get some IV fluids, a urinary tract infection test, and have your kidneys examined. They can give you pain meds and can also "force" your Dr's hand to get him to stop monkeying around with you. It is nuts you are putting up with this when you could be getting this taken care of. ~MM
I am not nauseated or vomitting, not do I have acnstant urge to urinate. I have no fever, in fact, it runs low..like 96.8. Fever for me is usually around 98.6. So I am good on that part. Other than the hips hurting I am feeling relatively okay. The flank pain comes and goes. I should get the urinary test results tomorrow I believe. I am not a big water drinker, but I have started a lot today. Normally I can go days with just a sip here and there with meds. I urinate about every 45 mins, sometimes more often, sometimes less. Usually a good amount! I constantly drink liquids, just not water. I am going to do better on that tho! and I am thirsty a lot! But I also have Sjogrens and Parotid Gland Inflammation to a maxium. Swells so big you can't see my ear sometimes. I do not take any kind of fluid pills, but take two different BP pills. One of them twice a day (lopressor 100 mg and Ramapril 10mg) and on once a day. I have Hahimotos/hypothyroid/ Achalasia/Fibromyalgia/have had pituitary tumor (have had 2 of them- 24 years apart) surgery! Cervical Dysplasia more than once or twice/ swallowing problems/ DES baby/Back Surgery/Cervical Spina Bifida Occulta/ as well as a few more.
Why do you think these docs aren't seeing what you are?
Have you ever been checked for MENS? -Just curious.
Perhaps a pituitary problem is causing secondary hyperparathyroidism -as far as I know that is the only other thing that causes it besides a parathyroid tumor. Whatever is causing it, your body is dumping excess calcium and you are symptomatic from it. Do you know what your ionized calcium levels are? This continuous calcium robbing from your bones will eventually cause osteoporosis unless it is controlled better. I am not a Dr, but I have been a patient with this, and I also know Drs are reluctant to order expensive tests when they can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt what the issue is. I would pin your Dr down and ask him straight why he won't order the test. You are miserable now, and you know something is wrong, and this test is diagnostic for a parathyroid tumor -which causes hyperparathyroidism. ~MM
just had a Pit. MRI and it is all clear. never had the ionized cal. level ran as far as I know, nor ever been tested for MENS.
I will present this to my endo.
Also had a US on thyroid with my "fired endo"! said I had multinodular thyroid---he was not alarmed nor concerned.
still no results from urinaylisis. How long does it take for a culture to be done?
I'm glad to hear the MRI turned out well. Pituitary tumor ruled out! Good news!
The ionized calcium reflects how much "free" calcium is actually available for your body to use (it goes through a conversion process involving vitamin d and the liver). If it is higher than normal, it can be caused by hyperparathyroidism, excessive vitamin d, and/or a few other things. The reverse if it is low.
MENS is usually hereditary, but sometimes it is not diagnosed until an attentive Dr figures it out. It often affects multiple endocrine glands and can cause tumor growth and cancers.
The return of urinalysis results depnds on the lab and what they are looking for. The one for my kidney stone analysis took about 8 days as it had to go to some special lab to assess mineral content. (Truthfully, I think they were just impressed and had it on display. -It was a 6mm calcium oxylate stone (I have pearl earrings the same size!) that I proudly passed and named! LOL
If you want to see something really sobering, take a look at what kidney stones look like close-up. And then think of it breaking off pieces or trying to pass as a whole piece while scraping and jabbing you ureter all the way to you bladder (which usually has a central diameter of a #2 pencil lead.) No wonder they hurt!!! :0 ~MM
Thank you for all your help. I will post when I get my results in!
Oh yea, I have learned a lot!
You may want to stop by the MSK - Medullary Sponge Kidney disease community, too ..... many of us have calcium issues, stones + pain and an MRI won't show this condition as I have been told.
Worth a look/see
Ohhhh .. it was a Pit MRI ----- a CT w/o contrast is the gold standard if they want to look for stones ... and a IVP Xray with followthru (constrast) is gold standard for the condition above called MSK. -- "sometimes MSK" will show up on CT Scans from what I've read on the MSK community. All tests can be normal with MSK yet you have these pesky stones and pains as you describe and para's are normal and thyroid is normal and everything is normal but you are in pain :(
Found out I had blood in urine too. Still waiting on newest results.