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1535467 tn?1342235270

Dying. Again. Dose Change.

I had my dose increased 30 mg two weeks ago and I am literally dying..

Immediately 2 hrs after increasing my armour 30mg, my Cymbalta stop working for few days (which is hell), thankfully it started working again. That's not worst part.

difficulty sleeping
heart palpitations
joint/muscle pain
fatigue after meals (seems like my blood sugar is all messed up)
neck pain
stomach pain
constipation, belching
cold feet
lethargy

I'm not sure what to do at this point, its like i'm starting all over again.. I am taking 120mg of armour right now. I am going to get my previous lab tests and schedule an appointment with my doctor next week. There must be something else going on here..

It's very frustrating because It seems thyroid disease is reguarded as "no big deal" on the internet/public/ and medical community. Youv'e got to be kidding me.

33 Responses
Avatar universal
I don't know where it is considered no big deal, I wish it was no big deal, I a have been on a roller Coaster for a little over two years and we have members here that have had symptoms for a lot longer than me. I started to think it was my medication (Synthroid) causing the symptoms, things went haywire when I first started it, then it seemed ok, now, like you I had an increase in Oct. of last year and I am still in the same boat as you,with the exception of the heart palps, I have not had that one yet (Knock on Wood)
Well you are not alone. Good Luck FTB4
1299122 tn?1281044016
Your Armour dosage was increased from 90mg to 120mg recently? That seems like a lot of T3 med every day. (I take Armour too) Was there a specific reason for the increase?
The most experienced members will tell you that fatigue can also be a symptom of hyperthyroid, but the constipation seems odd if you are in hyper-mode.
Do you have autoimmune thyroiditis - Hashimotos?
The endorcine system is complex - do you also take estrogen?
If you will post your labs with reference ranges I'm sure you'll receive some helpful comments.
As far as not feeling well, I understand what it is to feel like you are dying - been there done that. I'll say a prayer for you this evening.
1535467 tn?1342235270
Yes, I have hashimoto's, it was increased because I am still hypothyroid. Just 6 months ago, 60 mg was too much, now its way too little. The doctors at the moment think the stomach is a seperate issue.. I was diagnosed with chronic gastritis two years ago. My guess is they are going to send me back to the GI doctor.. I just completed a 4 month run of nexium. Unfortunately it did not solve anything. My thyroid hurts everytime the dose changes.. not too sure why. I have nodules, but they are being monitored every 6 months.

I will get my lab results and post them soon. My doctor is attempting to get my TSH to 2 or below, but thats taking quite along time.

I have not had any good experiences with synthroid.
Avatar universal
Has your Armour changed it's components? In the last several months, I've read repeatedly that Armour has changed its ingredients and those who were doing just fine and were stable while taking the old formula, suddenly began having problems with the new compound. I ask because your symptoms sound suspiciously hypothyroid despite taking bigger amounts of meds. Another thought, has your vitamin D level suddenly dropped? If so, the absorption of calcium from your diet may not be sufficient and you could be experiencing a spike in blood calcium levels causing many "pseudo hyperparathyroid/hypercalcemia" symptoms.
One last thought...ever had your calcium/parathyroid hormone (PTH) levels checked? ~MM
1535467 tn?1342235270
Thanks for the info, I will check into the calcium/parathyroid suggestion. I started supplementing with some vitamin d recently ( I rotate different vitamins out every two weeks, and pair them with a daily multi-vitamin).

Yes I was taking the older armour at some point and switched to the new a few months ago.. definitely could have caused some issues.

My thyroid issue started 5 years ago.. So im on year 5 of the roller coaster :)
Avatar universal
Hmm..It seems I didn't finish my thought on the low vitamin D/ blood calcium spike..I meant to explain that when the calcium level in you blood drops from poor dietary intake or absorption, the parathyroid release PTH to get the bones to give up calcium from their stores. This can cause horrible bone, joint, and muscle pain. The calcium level then spikes up, and if the parathyroids are functioning properly, they cut back the PTH production until the calcium gets to a normal level.
If they aren't working right, and are pumping out excess PTH, you may get all the "bones (joint, muscle, and bone pain),  abdominal groans (gut pain, constipation), and psychiatric moans" (depression, anxiety, etc.) of hyperparathyroidism. Whew. Well, there you have it. ;) ~MM
1299122 tn?1281044016
Medicmommy - awesome answer! This forum has so many amazing members that are so well researched & experienced. I honestly don't know how I'd manage without you!
My endocrinologist is a TSH man, recently told me that my returned symptoms are not hypothyroid (hair thinning, constipation,  fatigue (regardless of plenty of sleep) etc.) because... my labs are in range!
Avatar universal
Please post recent labs along with reference ranges.  Labs before the meds increase would be especially interesting, but so would any history you might have that would identify any trends.
Avatar universal
Hi! I just wanted to say I have been there and I know exactly what you are going through right now and I'm VERY SORRY!!!

I can gaurantee it is all happening because your dose is WAY TOO HIGH!!! Even though your thyroid needs the high dosage, the effects are making you seem hyper...it is SO frustrating!

I started on 100 mg of Synthroid...first few months fine...then...

Heart Palpiations
MAJOR CHEST PAIN
Deep feeling in chest
STRONG headaches

My doctor told me to cut the pills in half...still the same...I basically told him that I needed to be on 25 mg because I could not take it it anymore! Since being on 25 mgs I've been great! He said we would gradually increase my dosage...which is what he SHOULD have done in the first place!!! My doctor also focuses on my TSH level and not the symptoms I'm having! If only these doctors and the drug companies knew what we are going through!!!

I will give you hope...once you find your right dosage...you will feel better! Even if your doctor won't give you the okay, I would try cutting your pills in halfs or fourths...you've gotta do what you've gotta do to feel good! Good luck! :-)
1535467 tn?1342235270
I think your probably right E-beth, alot of symptoms have calmed down, and my thyroid stopped hurting.. I don't understand why my thyroid dislikes thyroid hormone so much.. I still plan on getting lab results.. and a referral to a GI.. will post as soon as I get them. I wish I didn't have to drink 3 cups of coffee everymorning to keep moving.. but for now thats all I can do!
1535467 tn?1342235270
TSH 4.32      Reference Range .40-4.50
T4 Free .9     Reference Range .8-1.8
T3 Free 3.0   Reference Range 2.3-4.2

Alot of the symptoms calmed down, I still have wonderful joint muscle aches and sensations, but she claims I fall into a group of people who are "sensitive" and attributes it to depression.
Avatar universal
TSH is the least reliable of the three tests, but, that being said, AACE recommended 7 or 8 years ago that TSH range be amended to 0.3-3.0.  Most doctors and labs use an old range as does yours.  So, your TSH is hypo.

FT4 is in range, but way too low in the range.  Many of our members have to be at least midrange before hypo symptoms are relieved.  FT3 is also quite low...the rule of thumb for FT3 is upper half to upper third of range.

Had you taken your Armour prior to this blood draw?  Do you split your dose into more than one during the day?    
1539238 tn?1292865243
Sounds like HPTH...

High calcium and high PTH at the SAME time will cause low vitamin D to protect from overabsorbsion of Calcium.

Check Calcium, PTH, and D levels... If the first two are high at the same time it is a parathyroid tumor, I have both, thyroid and parathyroid tumors.

Best info on the web for primary hyperparatyroidism is www.parathyroid.com...all symptoms fit...I feel like death warmed over too.

Yes, thyroid can make you feel bad...but calcium and D....well thats just hell, and in 12 years the NEVER ran PTH test on me....ASK For it....

Lori
1539238 tn?1292865243
PS, just read you are adding vitamin D...if your calcium is high, this a bad idea....I tried it, and it made all my symptoms worse even though it slightly lowered the blood calcium level..

Now...let me say this... low vitamin D...NEVER causes high calcium and high PTH hormone at the same time, ever.  Dont get duped into this fallacy.

Adding D will make your serum calcium test lower...but the damage is still being done because now, your body is absorbing more of the high calcium into the gut, but if you let your body do its job...it has lowered D to prevent you from absorbing so much Calcium, which can cause stroke or other bad symptoms.....this is bad...kidney stones, and high blood pressure...lots of bad things can happen, and the damage to the bones are still being done if you have HPTH, so dont try to monkey around with D just to satisfy a serum Ca test...dangerous...only fix is to have the tumor removed that is causing the gland to go haywire and never shut off producing PTH.

Get copies of your labs...research it well.

Good luck...D always makes me feel worse than ever, and my calcium has been around 10.4-10.8  with PTH of 88-110.    My calcium and PTH are different every time it is checked, never the same over the last four months tested.  My D level is at 10...

Dexa bone scan is also warranted if Ca and PTH are both high...as well as kidney function tests with the blood work.  My bone scan showed Osteopenia at 45 years old...that is classic of primary HPTH. (as the parathyroid hormone demands that the extra calcium come right out of the bones..

But last doc I saw changed it to secondary HPTH due to low D because I would not let him do exploratory surgery on my neck and wanted the M I R P mini operation...99 percent cure rate, so...wrong answer about secondary...  

Secondary is caused from kidney failure or MEN and will show a LOW calcium and HIGH PTH...so be careful of that pitfall when it comes to docs...parathyroid is not all that common, (but it should be checked on everyone suffering from depression, fibromyalgia symptoms and chronic fatigue, like I was for so long....so even docs that should know what it going on...sometimes don't order the right test, or even take the time to look up your results before they present you with a treatment plan as I have found..

I am waiting to see the next doc on my list...I will have this adenoma removed before it kills me!

Lori

649848 tn?1534637300
COMMUNITY LEADER
I'm having a real hard time figuring out how hyperparathyroidism  is creeping into every thread in which someone feels badly.  Yes, parathyroid issues need to be looked at, if symptoms warrant, but first all of the thyroid issues need to be dealt with, that includes proper testing/evaluation/medication.  Let's all keep in mind that the parathyroids and thyroid have nothing in common, other than their location in the body.......

Many of us have suffered for more years than we care to count, due to inadequate testing and evaluation....... some of you know my own horror story (which, admittedly is not as bad as some, but certainly traumatic for me), but I think it's very important to take one step at a time to confirm/rule out various issues.

DreamNaut has higher  than normal TSH, with very low thyroid levels, indicating that she's hypo; that will make her feel like crap...... It's also not unusual for patients to report feeling badly for a period of time after a med change/dosage increase/decrease........ happens to me all the time.  Took a decrease a couple weeks ago...... ouch, but am starting to bounce back.

In addition, DreamNaut has Hashimoto's and nodules -- not impossible/unusual for nodules to produce hormones independently of the thyroid, which could cause swings from hyper to hypo.  

Then there's the "method" of taking the med.   I've never taken Armour, but most who do, split it into multiple doses/day because of the T3 content.  If you take a huge dose all at once, the T3 could send you to hyperland; but since that leaves the body in a few hours, you would then swing back to hypo.... add "uncooperative nodules" to the mix, producing hormones on their own........  Not saying for sure this is what's happening, but if it is -- ugghhh......





1539238 tn?1292865243

I dont know if hypo causes GERD and belching with constipation, along with the other symptoms, which I have as well...but... I will tell you for dam sure that HPTH does and that is why it is creeping in...

why are you so down on not running this little blood test there Barb...its only calcium, PTH and D...what is your issue with doing this test that is for one, cheap, and two quick, one thing at a time when you are suffering seems dumb, and she is already on thyroid meds, so check it all.

My thyroid and parathyroid have a very close relationship in symptoms.
1539238 tn?1292865243
For the constipation, what helps me is Dan Active pro-biotic 4 oz drinks, two a day, and add one apple and one orange...as you can.

By adding calcium to my diet, PTH does not demand that the extra calcium required to satisfy its malfunctioning self come from my bones...so this eases my pain and fatgue as well.  Never hurts to try a few diet changes in managing symptoms, and I have tried them all!

Lori

PS...Simethecone works best for the belching...the nexium and acid blockers caused many problems, like a "hairy tongue, or geographic tongue because it screws up the balance of flora and acid in my stomach dan active cured that too, when no other doc could not even the GIs....they never helped me anyway, so I just do the simethecone chewable gas tabs now with Dan Active....and avoid all fatty fried foods, like bacon, biscuits, and I never eat fast food...or I will pay... etc...
Avatar universal
Since there is a KNOWN thyroid problem with DreamNaut, and since FT3 and FT4 levels are still way too low, symptoms can easily be explained by thyroid levels.

Your situation sounds complex.  I hear that you've been burned.  BUT, not everyone who has a thyroid problem also has a parathyroid problem.  

When it comes to thyroid, which can effect your whole body, it is by no means DUMB to take one thing at a time.  Most of us were amazed how many of our symptoms were thyroid related once we got on meds and our symptoms were relieved.

Everyone is not the same as you, and I think you're just complicating an already confusing situation further.  Maybe it's time to take a deep breath...
Avatar universal
i understand that you have suffered, and I'm sorry for that.

I'm not judging you.  I just think that your situation is very unique to you.

Your condition has not been corrected with thyroid meds alone.  Since we know little about you, I don't know if it might have been or not.  Were you properly treated?  Were you treated until symptoms were resolved?  Apparently not.  

Many of our members are new to these discussions.  Many of us DO just have thyroid issues.  Jumping to another issue can be confusing.  I think your comments may have more to do with your interests in forwarding a personal agenda or vendetta than in helping the poster.

As I said, maybe time for a deep breath and asking yourself who is benefitting from your responses.  I've learned I can't offload everything I know about thyroid on every person who is just starting out.  It's overwhelming to them.  One step at a time...if that makes me a "Nazi", so be it.
1299122 tn?1281044016
I just reread this thread to see how it evolved (or devolved) Anyway - one thing I can suggest [Dreamnaut] is cutting back on the three cups of coffee in the morning. I know! I know! What an awful suggestion! (I am a coffee lover too!) BUT! Coffee is very acidic and isn't good for anyone with gastric issues and it also interferes with the absorption of thyroid hormone. And...coffee isn't a friend to calcium & bone health either.
I take Armour too. I cut the 2 30mg tablets onto a spoon and add a little honey and then lick the spoon. Within about 10-15 minutes the T3 gets into my bloodstream and I feel some energy. (mommas little helper) I have some herbal tea when I first get up - but after that first hour or so goes by the only thing on MY mind is a cup of coffee! Yum!
It's pretty obvious you are hypo with the numbers you shared. I may have missed it in the posts, but it is better to split a T3/T4 thyroid med into at least two dosages - first in AM and then again later in the day. (Do you do this?) Otherwise, like Barb shared, you are getting all that T3 in one big dose which could make you feel a bit hyper.
I do think its a good idea to have more blood work - your Vitamin D3 levels, Ferritin (Iron) B12, and yes, a PTH too (what the heck!) Although I don't suspect that is your problem.
Something else, when I was on Cymbalta (before I found out my REAL issue was hashimotos) I had some side effects from it - constipation, heart palpitations, trouble sleeping...and I was not taking thryoid hormone. With continued use of Cymbalta the side effects subsided a bit, but I am suspicious [in your case] that increasing thyroid hormone along with taking the Cymbalta may have contributed to the side effects that are making you feel miserable right now. Do you also take estrogen? Estrogen & thyroid hormone also compete with each other...at least that is what I have read.
1611319 tn?1378621999
Bless your heart, when your Cymbalta quit it had to be so horrible for you.  And I totally agree that it seems like the rest of the world takes tyroid issues so lightly.  Like it is easy to control!!Ha Ha, what a farce.  I have had many, many issues in my lifetime and this has to be the most complex one I have had to face.  There are so many things that rely on the other.  I am just beginning to really get a glimpse into this world of rollercoster thyroid circus!
Please know that there are many people here that are very wise and helpful! And there are those that are here to understand and be your cheerleader.  We can hold your hand and pray for you. But I will be your advocate and tell you that you are going to have ups and downs, but that having a positive outlook is one of the foremost things you can do for yourself.  Please feel free to give me a holler if you need anything at all or need pointed in the right direction to who can help.  I may not have the answers but will try my hardest to get you in touch with those that can help the most.  

Sass

And Shelly, way to go!!!!  :)

Avatar universal
Hi ladies.
I have had both HPT AND currently have Hashi's, and if I've learned anything, it is that not all doctors are created equal in their search to find the source of a problem. I have my own maddening horror stories about both and, although each condition had its own unique symptoms and presentation, they both had similarities too.
The awesome thing about a HPT diagnosis is that it can usually be cured with a simple surgery and if there is the smallest change this is the problem, then a person owe it to themselves to get tested.
Unfortunately, the Hashi's (and other thyroid issues), do not have such a simple answers. My point I'm trying to make here is, no stone should go unturned when trying to find the source of a problem. High calcium levels can also indicate cancer, but that doesn't mean everyone who has hypercalcemia has cancer and although thyroiditis causes severely low TSH levels, it doesn't mean a person has Grave's disease. Yannow? ~MM
1539238 tn?1292865243
Confusing ....by talking about parathyroid...come on'

He will be having more blood work....Christ....all I am saying IS ADD TWO FREAKING CHECK MARKS ON THE LAB SLIP TO BE SURE>>>HOW HARD AND CONFUSING IS THAT TO CHECK PTH AND CALCIUM?????

EXACTLY....TWO CHECK MARKS ON A LAB SLIP so get OFF MY BACK.....only thing that is confusing here is why you are so against trying to really help this person.

My situation is NOT unique to ME  1 out of every 100k people will have this condition, after the age of 60 that quadruples the rate....IT AINT ALL THAT RARE, what IS rare is to get a doctor to CHECK THE PTH BOX ON THE BLOOD SLIP.

and when I say Nazi...I meant it as the Seinfeld Soup Nazi episode...priceless.

And when I suggested CHECK MARKING THE BOX ON THE LABS and dietary changes, that was to help DREAMNAUT to AVOID YEARS of suffering with NO ANSWERS he is young and doesnt need his life ruined like mine..

I Have one purpose in this forum, to learn how to feel better myself by reading everyones posts and to help others aviod my pain of misdiagnosis, foreclosure and bankruptcy because the answers never came soon enough.

Cymbalta and all the head drugs that followed screwed me up worse than any of the drugs, and I had a laundry basket full,,,,,all the head drugs made all my symptoms WORSE....only way for me to handle the depression...And ANGER now is with Ecotherapy...no drugs, so as soon as the sun comes up, I am going for a walk...

Symptom treating is pointless until you can find the ROOT cause.

Lori
1539238 tn?1292865243
Thanks for the validation Mommy!  

Now...tell me how different this symptom list from HPTH is from HYPO...cant tell it can you?  

Symptoms of Parathyroid Disease (Hyperparathyroidism)

Loss of energy. Don't feel like doing much. Tired all the time. Chronic fatigue.

Just don't feel well; don't quite feel normal. Hard to explain but just feel kind of bad.

Feel old. Don't have the interest in things that you used to.

Can't concentrate, or can't keep your concentration like in the past.

Depression.

Osteoporosis and Osteopenia.

Bones hurt; typically it's bones in the legs and arms but can be most bones.

Don't sleep like you used to. Wake up in middle of night. Trouble getting to sleep.

Tired during the day and frequently feel like you want a nap.

Spouse claims you are more irritable and harder to get along with (cranky, bitchy).

Forget simple things that you used to remember very easily (worsening memory).

Gastric acid reflux; heartburn; GERD.

Decrease in sex drive.

Thinning hair (predominately in middle aged females on the front part of the scalp).

Kidney Stones.

High Blood Pressure (sometimes mild, sometimes quite severe; up and down a lot).

Recurrent Headaches (usually patients under the age of 40).

Heart Palpitations (arrhythmias). Typically atrial arrhythmias.

+ Constipation or IBS

Most people with hyperparathyroidism will have 4 - 6 of these symptoms. Some will have lots of them. A few people will say they don't have any... but after an operation they will often say otherwise. 95% of people with hyperparathyroidism will have 3 or more of these symptoms. In general, the longer you have hyperparathyroidism, the more symptoms you will develop.

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649848 tn?1534637300
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