Studies have shown that high doses of fluoride can adversely affect thyroid function, however, the amounts typically used in drinking are not that high.
Reverse osmosis is very expensive and once installed would not be easily removed. I'm not even sure where, in an apartment setting, you'd have room to install it. You can buy filtering equipment, such as the Britta filter, that goes on your faucet or filters our pitchers full of water, in stores like Lowe's, Home Depot, Walmart, etc. that are reasonably priced.
If the water provided to you comes from a public drinking water supply, the supplier is required, by law, to do certain amounts of testing on a regular basis. Fluoride is one of the parameters tested. If your water comes from a Community water system, they supplier is required to send all customers a Consumer Confidence report every year, to let them know of any water samples that were outside the limits set by DEP or EPA.
If your water doesn't come from a fairly large water system, chances are, there is no added fluoride and the amounts that naturally occur are, typically, quite small.
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I found out after my post that RO is not an option. Unfortunately I have concerns about bottled water too. Supposedly some of it isn't any better than tap water and most of it is stored in plastic which is a pollutant.
According to Brita's website it reduces chlorine and metals not fluoride.
Here's info from website where I live:
What is the concentration of fluoride in the city's drinking water?
WTP: Lake Ontario which is the raw water source for the Woodward Ave. Water Treatment Plant has naturally occurring average fluoride concentration of 0.13 mg/L (2008 through 2012), the treated drinking water supplied by the Woodward Ave. WTP has an average fluoride concentration of 0.59 mg/L (2008 through 2012). The target concentration of fluoride is 0.6 mg/L An average of 0.46 mg of additional fluoride is added per litre of treated drinking water.
I e-mailed the city to ask why the naturally occurring fluoride concentration isn't considered enough. They do treat the water. I resent this. If people want fluoride to prevent tooth decay they can purchase toothpaste with fluoride.
The water system, itself, doesn't have an option as to whether or not they will fluoridate their water. The mandates come, either, from your state's DEP (Department of Environmental Protection) agency or the Federal EPA.
If the state mandates it, they are simply following EPA's laws. The laws go by the population using the water system. Large Community systems, typically, are required to fluoridate, whereas smaller ones are not.
The city has no choice, but to do what DEP/EPA tell them to do, or they will be in violation of the law.
Please note I live in Canada not the United States.Thanks.
Check this out. This is the idea of one of the city councillors in my hometown.
Sorry, your profile doesn't indicate your location.
I did include in my profile that I am from Canada, but I guess it wasn't shown. So, I added "Canadian" under "About Me."
I received the following response when I asked about fluoride in the water where I live. April: In order to be effective, the concentration of the Fl in drinking water should optimally be between 0.5 – 0.7 ppm and naturally occurring is not that high. Peter Clinical and Preventive Services Public Health Dentist Manager, Dental Programs
Flouride is a toxin. Even on your tube of toothpaste it says that if injested to call the poision control center.
Intersting there is VERY little evidence that Flouride even helps teeth. And even if it does, it is ONLY needed in children as their adult teeth are developing for a few short years while a kid. Yet they deliberately feed us poison in our drinking water to EVERYONE.
There is a lot of evidence of Flourosis, which is the discoloring speckling of teeth in people and kids (actually ALL your bones but you can only see your teeth bones viusally). And this is a sign of OVER dosing of Flouride. We are getting TONS of fouride from various sources, in toothpaste in addition to the water and also many medicines also have flouride in them as well.
I've read but do not know if it is true that the poison control levels of toxicity of Flouride is near or lower than the amount that many community water systems add to the water. So any additional Fluoride that a person gets could easily over dose the person.
With the advent and common practice of applying sealants on adult teeth right after they come in to kids, there is little need for whatever the supposed benefits of Flouride was for teeth. Making Flouride reduntant and just an added public taxpayer expense to buy and add to our drinking water.
Think about the effect on thyroid. The #1 cause for low thyroid in the "modern" or "industrialized" nations is Hashimoto's. Not apparently in rural or unsophsticated countries. But one thing in common in these "industrialized" or "modern" nations is that they almost all add Flouride to the water. is there a connection to Fluoride causing hypo or pushing a person over the edge into Hypo? I'm not sure but it sure has to make a person say Hummmmm.....
The bottom line is that while it is common practice to add Flouride to water. There is no reason to do it anymore. There is plenty of availability of Flouride in thoothpaste or could be obtained for the kids separately for the only the ages that Flouride might be a benefit to them. There is abotlutely no need what so ever to add in a TOXIN into our drinking water for everyone to drink. NONE!
But reversing the common practice and the paradigm is extremely difficult.
I think adding Flouride is not MANDATED. It is a choice and IF they make that choice there are established limits that is recommended not to exceed. It just so happens that most communities choose to add it in thinking that it is good "for the children". But they make this choice without really knowing or researching the facts as they are TODAY. And likely no one in the water department or city council or whatever has ever even bothered to think about it. It has been done for 50 years so why would they even think to consider removing it from the treatment process? Maybe it made sense 50 years ago with no other way to get Fluoride to people. But things have dramtically changed in 50+ years. So they don't and most of the residents don't know that they are drinking water with a known poison added to it "for their own good" eventhough there may be no reason what so ever to do it anymore.
A true conspiracy theory out there. A scientist was sent over to Germany after WWII to find out why the Nazi's were adding Fluoride to water. This scientist is named Charles Perkins. And a book written by Jim Mars stated that Dr. Perkins conclusion was, and was quoted: "Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination, by slowly poisoning and narcotizing a certain area of the brain, thus making him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern them. The real reason behind water fluoridation is not to benefit children's teeth. If this were the real reason there are many ways in which it could be done that are much easier, cheaper, and far more effective. The real purpose behind fluoridation is to reduce the resistance of the masses to domination and control and loss of liberty."
Wow! And we wonder why our citizens in North America are letting the government take more and more of our rights awy every year! Is it because the vast majority of the population has been treated with Fluoridated drinking water literally for multiple GENERATIONS???? I don't know about that. But I do know there is no real reason to have fluoride put into our water any more!
Fluoride is only toxic if you consume too much.
Please tell me how many people haven't accidentally swallowed a bit of toothpaste, while brushing their teeth? You'd probably have to eat a few entire tubes or more, to get enough fluoride to be toxic.
Fluorisis is, usually, associated with naturally occurring fluoride, found in those on well water, not on public drinking water systems, since their fluoride content is so stringently regulated.
Having spent 20+ years in the water treatment industry, I can tell you with certainty, that water systems in the United States, don't have a choice as to whether or not they add fluoride to the water and there are very stringent rules regarding the levels that must be maintained. Most often it's EPA that determines whether or not a public water system is fluoridated, and then those are only the large systems, serving more than 10,000 people. I'd say there are more people in the U.S. not on fluoridated water than what are on it.
Personally, I have spent less than a year total, drinking water that "might" have contained fluoride, in my entire life, as I've always had private well water, so the only fluoride I get is what occurs naturally, or what I get in my toothpaste, etc. I have Hashimoto's and the resulting hypothyroidism.
Of course, I'm only one person, but I know there are many others who have Hashimoto's who have not been subject to fluoridated water.
Do you really believe this Charles Perkins theory? Are we to assume that those of us, having not been subject to fluoridated water are the ones who have maintained our senses, while everyone else has turned into "followers"?
Straight from Kindergarten to sixth grade, we had a weekly fluoride rinse we had to do,(this was way back yonder in the late 80's, early 90's) unless our parents opted out of it. I don't know if any schools do this anymore? But to be honest with everyone here, very few people I grew up with resulted in having severe health problems due to said fluoride rinses. I say that because while I have Graves', I highly doubt it's from fluoride-I have type 1 diabetes, and auto-immune diseases can go hand in hand, and I had signs of something up with my pancreas long before I ever did the fluoride rinse. I also grew up on well water because I grew up in very rural areas.
As for other classmates, I only know of one other who has a thyroid problem that she was actually born with, and very, very few people have gotten any terrible diseases. In fact, more of my former classmates have passed away from DUI's than any sort of disease. I know that's not the case for everyone, and I get people's concern with not wanting to ingest too much-but like Barb said, you would have to swallow a lot of toothpaste to have an ill effect. Kids of course, are smaller, so if they ingest too much-say, a tube of toothpaste when your back was turned? They're going to be way sicker than adults would be doing the same thing, so of course it's best to take a child who's swallowed too much toothpaste to the ER.
I have no problems with those wanting to try to avoid it in their water consumption, that's your own choice, but fluoride is also found in many foods, so you'd really have to cut back your diet in order to consume as little fluoride as possible. It's also in the air we breathe. Too much can cause problems, but you can also feel sick if you ingest too much mercury from fish, or magnesium from antacids. But again, same deal-you'd have to ingest an insane amount just to feel sick. Vitamin D is good for you, many people take it to improve their health, but if you decide to go overboard with it, you get sick. Same with iron. Same with Vitamins E, B6, A, etc. etc.
Again, everyone's own choice what to consume and what not to consume, but sometimes, people just get a crappy hand in the genetics card game. and there's honestly not much one can do to prevent it. My family-on both mom and dad's side- has a history of thyroid diseases, it wasn''t a huge surprise I got a thyroid problem as well. If you feel safer trying to eliminate something that you feel might be a problem? Go for it.
I chose to use fluoride-free toothpaste. I live in a city where they add fluoride to the tap water. I'd prefer they didn't because I drink a lot of city water daily.
I think it's better than all of those sugary drinks you can buy in the grocery or drug store. You got to wonder why thyroid problems are so widespread. It seems likely there could be a universal contributing factor. Many are not fortunate to have control over the water supply or have the disposable income for bottled water or fancy filters ...
I wonder what the case is here in Canadian the number of households with fluoride-free versus fluoride in tap water. Yes, I am aware it's in other things people ingest. I was reading about black tea recently. I drink mainly herbals.
Here's a link from the USDA that provides detailed information on nutrient content of thousands of foods (http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/index). You can search for individual nutrients and sort the lists alphabetically or by nutrient content.
So why do cities who normally all have Fluoride almost exclusively heavily vote very far left with big government. While the rural area's in the USA that predominately do not have Fluoride in the water vote against big government???
As everyone points out. There are all sorts of places where you can obtain Fluoride in normal diet and air etc. So that alone provides enough Fluoride and there is no way that it needs to be added to drinking water.
You can also add in arsenic into the drinking water at low concentrations and that if the natural occuring water does not have enough you can add more. And it may not do any preceived harm. But who in their right mind wants their government ADDING arsenic into thier drinking water. Yet we do this with Fluoride every single day.
Fluoride is toxic just like Arsenic. But we don't add Arsenic to our drinking water now do we!
With the significant lack of evidence that Fluoride even helps teeth it is absolutely insane that our government is requireing it to be added to our water.
Hi, Thanks for your post. I agree with you. I am opposed to it. I choose to use a toothpaste free of fluoride.
I too recently went Fluoride free toothpaste. And I'm going to have to look into a revers osmosis filter for drinking water. As my community does Fluoride the water. I don't go crazy over this and I'm not picketting with signs outside the water treatment plant. I wish they would stop adding it. But I guess not enough to go public with it as some sort of mission or cause. All I can do is not limit the amount of Fluoride we injest by myself.
But when I'm thirsy I'm not going to go without water simply because my only choice is the public drinking water. And I drink public drinking water at work versus having a soda as I think even fluorinated water is still more healthy than a soda for example.
I doubt seriously that political leanings are caused by fluoride in the water. That seems to be a bit of a stretch.
There's a huge difference between putting arsenic in water and putting fluoride in water. Both are naturally occurring and the limits for arsenic are much lower than those of fluoride, because arsenic is much more dangerous and has no perceived benefit, whatsoever.
I'm not necessarily a "fan" of fluoride in drinking water, but, having worked in the water treatment industry for over 20 yrs, this seems to be much ado about nothing, since the limits of fluoride are very strictly regulated. Testing must be done at regular (daily, continuous on some very large systems) intervals in order to insure that fluoride levels remain within certain limits. At those limits, it's not "dangerous" and every water system is required to send out Consumer Confidence Reports, annually, to let customers know the quality of the water they drink.
I don't know how Canada would compare with the U.S, because there are a lot of variables, like population, the number of cities that use fluoride, the number of people who have access to fluoride-free (other than naturally occurring) water, etc.
If you're concerned about the fluoride in your water, you could call your water purveyor and ask for a breakdown of all the contaminants in the water. They should be willing to provide that. Alternatively, you could switch to bottled water, or as discussed, above. a filter that would be appropriate for your situation, since reverse osmosis equipment tends to be very expensive and, typically, takes a lot of room, plus knowledge to operate it properly.
What I agreed with was the following statements by flyingfool, "there is no way that it needs to be added to drinking water" since people can choose to purchase toothpaste with fluoride if they wish to. It's readily available and affordable.
I'm not advocating the addition of fluoride to the water; for the most part, it's probably not necessary, because of the various other ways it can be ingested.
I was mostly addressing the comments linking fluoride use to political leanings and the suggestion that adding fluoride is just as bad as adding arsenic to drinking water.
I was also addressing your question about how things would compare, in Canada. I was pointing out that I don't know your laws or statistics, so I can't answer your question.
And actually, there are some areas, in which the water is very low in fluoride and there may very well BE a reason to add it.
I, typically, have a problem with "across the board" statements, that imply "everybody" needs this, or "nobody" needs that. Every person and situation is different.
You have stated,
"Fluoride is only toxic if you consume too much" and I'm not necessarily a "fan" of fluoride in drinking water, but, having worked in the water treatment industry for over 20 yrs, this seems to be much ado about nothing, since the limits of fluoride are very strictly regulated.
I think it is a legitimate concern and fluoride could be a contributing factor in the growing numbers of individuals developing and suffering with thyroid disorders.
How many people who use this forum and have hypothyroidism have been drinking tap water as their beverage of choice for their lifetime?
"How many people who use this forum and have hypothyroidism have been drinking tap water as their beverage of choice for their lifetime?"
Most of us drink tap water as our beverage of choice, but not all tap water is fluoridated; I have no idea how many people have come through this forum who drink fluoridated water. I have no idea how it works in Canada, but I do know that in the U.S., and particularly, in FL, the majority of public water systems do NOT use fluoride. Typically, it's only the very large municipal systems that do, and those that do have to comply with very stringent regulations.
"I think it is a legitimate concern and fluoride could be a contributing factor in the growing numbers of individuals developing and suffering with thyroid disorders."
Fluoride "could" be a contributing factor, but from what I've seen, the absolute scientific evidence to back up the idea, just isn't there yet.
There "may" be other contributors to hypothyroidism that may be of more importance. There are certain medications that can contribute to hypothyroidism and for all we know, even some of the supplements that we buy in the local health food store, could be contributors.
I also wonder about soda and juice manufacturers. They are most likley located in a municipal location where they get their water to make these beverages with city water. Most likely that has Fluoride in it. Now MAYBE they treat the water to remove the Fluoride, but I doubt it.
So many of the drinks we have probably are pretty likely to have Fluoride in it.
Bottom line in my mind is that if as it seems that there is no longer significant proven scientific benefits to teeth. Then whether dangerous or not, there is no reason to add it and the costs of adding it to municipal drinking water and additional costs to the taxpayers to pay for to add it to the water, pay to have the water tested for this chemical etc. All for no real evidence that it even contributes to teeth. It just makes no sense.
And even IF there is benefits to developing teeth in kids. It still makes zero sense to me to add it to the entire drinking water for EVERY human in the area to be forced to injest a known toxin (even at "safe levels") which benefits ONLY the children in a small age group. Why not just sell a supplment for these kids instead of forcing everyone to have something they don't need. AND have to pay for it in taxes besides. It makes absolutely no sense. We have just gotten used to it as normal as we've been adding Fluoride for 50+ years. But we all know the idea of "normal" doesn't make it right.
But just because we've always done it one way ofr decades does not necessarily make it right.
I was given fluoride tablets (pharmaceutical grade) from age 5 to around age 13 and I have dental fluorosis. It's not that bad thankfully. I've seen really bad cases online. I can't say if my thyroid was affected or not since I had undiagnosed juvenile pernicious anaemia. By age 15, I can 100% say I had hypothyroid symptoms (not thyroid gland related but cellular). Not sure what the problem is but could be something to do with insulin.
Fluoride was added to the town's water supply so I switched to spring water. My ex neighbour brings over water from her rainwater tank as well. A few years later the fluoride was removed from the town's water supply so I tried the tap water again. Tastes terrible! I'll stick to spring or rain water!
Fluroride Alert has a lot of info.
"In total, 377,655,000 million people worldwide drink artificially fluoridated water. This represents 5% of the world’s population. There are more people drinking fluoridated water in the United States than the rest of the world combined. There is no difference in tooth decay between western nations that fluoridate their water and those that do not."