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Avatar universal

Hashimoto and Bipolar Disorder ?

Hello,

I am 30 and have Hashimoto (high anti-TG rates, normal anti-TPO rates), it started 7 years ago, I started treatment when my T4 storage began to sink. About how I feel I never noticed changes. Also I am hypersensitive, anxious, and was mistreated by my mum. For this I had psychotherapy, still have commitment problems.

My mother and my grand-mother (mother of my dad) both had hormonal thyroid problems (not treated).

My mum has a bipolar disorder, my grand-mother was also depressiv, and that's why I am writing: I am scared that sometime I become bipolar.

I discovered by reading on the internet that there is a relationship between an auto-immun disease at the thyroid and a bipolar disorder. But which relationship ?

Is the auto-immun reaction a symptom of a bipolar disorder ? does it mean that I already have it ?

OR

Is it just that I inherited some of the "bad" genes of my family (and perhaps all of them) and that I should try to minimize stress in my life, not to trigger the bipolar disorder ?

I feel lost and scared.

Cheers, Lilarot
21 Responses
Avatar universal
Hashimoto's can be sometimes misdiagnosed as bi-polar by docs who don't know well enough to check thyroid levels. What level of thyroid hormone are you taking? What are your most recent blood levels?

The bi-polar thing with Hashi is that early on in the disease, before we are being treated properly with the correct dosage of meds, we swing from hypothyroid to hyperthyroid, causing us to go from lethargic to anxious. It is the hormones playing tricks on your mind, and until you can find a good doctor who properly medicates you, this will not be controlled effectively.

Take care...
:) Tamra
Avatar universal
Also, I'm not trying to make excuses for your mum, but Hashi tends to be hereditary. She might have mistreated you because she, too, had Hashi and was misdiagnosed with bipolar.

:) Tamra
Avatar universal
Hello ,
It could happen to have psychotic symptoms as a result of being severely hypo/hyper ,
hashimoto is not a symptom of the bipolar ,however , the medication (lithium) bipolar patients take can cause hypo  !!

remember that what we write here is not scientific !
all the best !
393685 tn?1425816122
There are many scientific articles out there that make the connection to bi-polarism and hypothyroid.

Lilarot - you are looking into the best information out there right now to help your family

Having autoimmune Hashimoto is very hard on the body and if things are not regulated - many mental and physical issues can be present.

It worth a shot looking at the thyroid first - instead of getting told you have bi polar disease.

I know with my condition - getting the proper hormones in me - made a world of difference and I am happy I didn't buy into the bi polar thoughts my doctors was trying to convince me on.
Avatar universal
You've stated previously that what we do here is not scientific.  Not sure what you are trying to infer.   If you'll notice in the left margin the following statement.

"Member Comments are provided by individuals and reflect their personal opinions only. Under NO circumstances should you act on any advice or opinion posted in this forum.  ALWAYS check with your personal physician before taking any action regarding your health! MedHelp International and our partners, sponsors and affiliates have no obligation to monitor any comments posted on this site, or the content and/or accuracy of such exchanges. MedHelp International does not endorse the views of any user".

What more is needed?  By the way, when you look up the definition of scientific, you'll find something like this.  "Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.   A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses".

Avatar universal
Sorry, my comments got posted before I was done..  I meant to also add this question.  

Since all the knowledge and experience of our members and all the data we see from our members and all the literature we reference and quote does not meet the threshold of being somewhat scientific, then in your opinion, within the thyroid community, just who does meet your definition of being scientific?.
Avatar universal
Thank you a lot for your kind answers.

Tamra,

I always had a small goitre, I took yearly thyroid analysis, and sometime it came out I had anti-TG and a short hyperthyroidism.

Then my anti-TG levels went each time higher, my goitre bigger, and my T4 level decreased slowly and regularly into hypothyroidism, which I never reached since I started treatment last January (my TSH rose a little bit but remained in normal range).

I take 75 microgr. L-thyroxin each day and my goitre is small again, my thyroid still makes its "regulation work". From what I read from you, if hormon levels start to swing too much, it seems wiser to remove the thyroid and rely only on medication. I will remember this.

I also tried to understand what went wrong with my mum. She had several misscariages after getting me (it took her 6 years to get my first brother), she sometimes had hypoglycemia, she went fat, she was always fed up with life and couldn't stand me, and then she eventually had paranoiac deliria.

The doctors gave her lithium, it worked well (from what they told), but then she decided to stop treatment. After she "pushed" my dad to hospital, I decided to cut the relationship with her and that's the moment when Hashi started with me.. stress trigger..

My anxiety seems to come from psychological troubles and hypersensitivity, but it could also come partly from a bipolar disorder without I can get aware of it. That's my big fear right now..
Avatar universal
Thank you 6hashi, I didn't know severe hypo/hyper-thyroidism could lead to psychotic symptoms.

Stella,

I just remembered that the mother of my mum's mother turned mad at the end of her life (she died with 60-70), nobody knew why. I have so little information, it's so vague but there is something really wrong with my family (both sides).

I think I read most of the articles you're telling about, that's the reason why I decided to create this thread, many questions are left opened.

I have a good doctor (internist) who always takes time to ask me how I feel and diagnosed my disease at its beginning, I will tell him next time about what I read.

Cheers, Lilarot
Avatar universal
Hashimoto's can definitely cause miscarriage. I gave birth two months early, and docs didn't know why. I wouldn't be surprised if your mum and grandma had untreated Hashi.

The decision for surgery is between you and your doctor. That depends on many factors, including if the goiter is choking you.

75 mcg doesn't seem like that much. Any T3 meds? What are your blood levels? FT3, FT4, TSH? Post them and we can give your honest opinions. If you are not receiving enough meds, it could cause the bi-polar symptoms.

We are here to help. Sometimes, endos treat TSH and not the more important FT3, FT4 and especially your symptoms. Please share your numbers. We want you to feel better.

:) Tamra
Avatar universal
Hello ,
I noticed some comments as ,FT3 and FT4 should be  high in the reference range to feel well , this has no medical base ,actually high ft3 can affect the heart and the bones negatively , as for the note on the left , I didn't noticed it until your post !

This forum is important to share experiences and to learn about different options , but at the bottom line , one should consult a good specialist doctor !!

Scientific is what based on medical facts and medical research !

all the best !
Avatar universal
Note again the definition of scientific method that I gave you.

"Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.   A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses".

From all the members of this Forum we get a tremendous amount of data about their thyroid problems.  To me, all this data and experience, and the efforts that we make to search the internet and other sources for even more information to feed back to members,  probably fits the  above  definition far better than the approach we hear all the time where a TSH test was done, and after looking at the result versus the reference range it was decided that the patient was "normal" or not.

As far as comments about FT3 and FT4 needing to be high in the reference range, this comes from many members with personal experience that they have lingering hypo symptoms unless their levels are in the upper half of the ranges.  I could ask if these  reference ranges  are scientifically determined, then what is the concern with results being anywhere within the limits?  However, I personally believe that the ranges are incorrect, since they have never been adjusted to exclude suspect hypo and hyper patients, like was done for TSH over 6 years ago.  This is why, I believe, we hear from so many members with hypo symptoms, yet their FT3 and FT4 are just within the low limits of their ranges.

Yes, an FT3 that is too high can cause hyper symptoms.  That is why I always suggest that the best way to treat a patient is to test and adjust FT3 and FT4 with meds as required to alleviate symptoms.  No, a high FT3 will not affect bones negatively, unless the condition for bone loss already exists, in which case increasing metabolism can increase the rate of bone loss.  However, this problem should be addressed by fixing the  conditions causing bone loss, not by restricting thyroid meds necessary to alleviate other symptoms.

I agree with you that this Forum is to share experiences and learn about different options, and to discuss all this with the doctor to assure getting to the best overall result.  Where have you seen examples of any posts that did otherwise?
Avatar universal
Hi Tamra,

I was very young when my mum had miscarriages but I remember she explained me the babies she lost had karyotypes, which were not normal.

She also used to tell me that she had one side of her thyroid hypo, the other side hyper, and that all in all she was in euthyroidism.


Hier are my last lab results before I started the treatment of 75 mcg/day :

Thyroid levels 2008 :

Anti-TPO: 5 (<60)
Anti-TG: 741 (<115)
TSH: 1,6 (0,27-4,2)
FT3: 3,85 (2,8-7,1)
FT4: 9,3 (9,8-22,6)


And the ones before:

Thyroid levels 2006 :

Anti-TG: 400 (<115)
Thyreoglobulin: 103 (1,4-78)
FT3: 3,3 (2-4,4)
FT4: 10,0 (9,3-17)
TSH basale: 0,82 mU/l (0,27 - 4,20)
TSH after stimulation: 6,75 mU/l (5,00 - 30,00)


Thyroid levels 2005 :

Anti-TPO: 24 (<34)
Anti-TG: 270 (<115)
Anti-TRAK: <2,4 (<9)
FT3: 3,2 (2-4,4)
FT4: 9,2 (9,3-17)


Thyroid levels 2004 :

TPO: <60 (40)
TSH-O: 0,62 (0,3-3)
FT3: 6,6 (3,1-7,0)
FT4: 12,7 (8-12)


The analysis were done in different labs and countries, that's why the "normal ranges" in brackets vary.

Thank you a lot for trying to help me. :-)

Cheers, Lilarot
Avatar universal
Sorry, the ones of 2004 again:

TPO: <60 (40)
TSH-O: 0,62 (0,3-3)
T3 libres: 6,6 (3,1-7,0)
T4 libres: 12,7 (8-12)
Avatar universal
Strange, I don't understand why the numbers turn wrong when I post.. I try again:

TPO: <60 (40)

TSH-O: 0,62 (0,3-3)
T3 libres: 6,6 (3,1-7,0)
T4 libres: 12,7 (8-12)
Avatar universal
Lab levels 2004 :

Anti-TPO: <60 (40)
TSH-O: 0,62 (0,3-3)
FT3: 6,6 (3,1-7,0)
FT4: 12,7 (8-12)
Avatar universal
Argh!!!!!!!!

The two first lines anti-TPO and anti-TG are crushed by posting, why ?

Anyway I had no anti-TPO but was at the limit for anti-TG, which revealed the beginning of the disease (together with the short hyperthyroidism). That's what my internist told me.
Avatar universal
I have a very similar case to some of you my Grandmother on moms side is hypo and being treated (undertreated I am sure).  She has severe depression and OCD.  She is a horder and it is horribly sad.  
My mom has not been diagnosed because she refuses to be labeled and has no insurance.  But she is beyond irritable could probably be labeled bipolar also, tired, coarse hair, depressed, ect.
I refuse to live the rest of my life miserable and am trying to get my levels where they need to be to feel "good" it is definantly not to that point yet but I am trying.
On my dads side not real sure grandmother died really young and the only thing I remember hearing from my dad the few times I saw him was watch out all the women in the family gained alot weight when they got older so that leads me to think there could be some issues there as well.

I have read a bit on treating bipolar with cytomel and was hoping to try that route with my husband but the doctor did not perform the test we requested and he doesn't want to do any more blood work his tsh was good his FT4 barley above "norm" and sadly no FT3.  Damn stubborn men!

What about parathyroid??  http://www.parathyroid.com/parathyroid-symptoms.htm

http://www.drmirkin.com/morehealth/G171.htm here is a something about treating depression with cytomel
Avatar universal
Hi Jamie,

You don't need to have people on both sides of your family with Hashi and Bipolarity to get the "bad" genes, I suppose they are dominant, just you need to get the right combination of "bad" genes (and an environmental strigger).

FT3 are important because some people can not convert properly FT4 into FT3.

Has your husband a goiter and/or nodules ? and antibodies against TPO and/or TG ?

Cheers, Lilarot
Avatar universal
No goiter that I am aware of and don't know on the others he has not been tested :(
Avatar universal
Here, here, Gimel!! I second your beliefs. My FT4/FT3 is smack in the middle. I still feel tired. I just got a bump. No racing heart yet. My endo said she wants to see my levels high/normal.

However, with that being said, we are all different. Some people may feel well with their frees in the middle. I am certainly envious of them! I have talked to MANY hypo/Hashi members of this forum who don't feel well until their frees are in the high/normal range.

Scientific or not, those are the facts.

:) Tamra

Avatar universal
Jamie,

you said:

"No goiter that I am aware of and don't know on the others he has not been tested :( "

I agree with you that they should never diagnose a bipolar disorder without first considering a thyroid dysfonction.

They gave lithium to my mum.. was a very limited view of her overall health problematic..
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