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Avatar universal

Hashimoto's patients, are you TH1 or TH2 dominant?

Hashi patients, do you know if you are TH1 or TH2 dominant? I'm TH2 dominant. Coffee and green tea make my neck swell. I've given up caffeine and I take my Echinacea and Golden Seal each day and the flareups are gone. (Well, except when I eat chocolate). Which are you? Do you know if what you're eating could be causing auto-immune flareups?

Below is a part of the TH1/TH2 transcript taken from a video by Dr. Geronimo. Here's Dr. Geronimo's website:
http://www.powaychiro.com

I don't have enough room to post the entire transcript.To read the full transcript see my journal entry below:
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/182243/Hashi-patients--Are-you-TH1-or-TH2-dominant

:) Tamra

"An autoimmune condition occurs when one branch of the immune system over dominates another branch. This is called an either a Th1 or Th2 dominance. A dominant TH1 response means that the natural killer cells and cytotoxic t cells are responsible for attacking the body, while a TH2 dominance indicates that your bcells and antibodies are mounting the attack. A blood test is needed to find out which branch is dominant. Thus to treat an autoimmune disease, it is critical to find the dominant branch and to balance the seesaw by stimulating the other branch. For example, if a patient’s autoimmune disease was TH1 dominant, treating it would require that we strengthen the Th2 side to balance out the immune system. If the patient were Th2 dominant, we would stimulate the Th1 side to regain balance. It’s a pretty simple solution, but so many people suffer needlessly because the immune system has been ignored, until now.

This is where clinical nutrition and natural medicine comes into play. It is well documented in clinical research that Th1 stimulants are Echinacea, maitake mushrooms and golden seal to name a few. Th2 stimulators are caffeine, green tea, and grape seed extract. So in the example I gave in the previous slide, if a patient with an under functioning thyroid is TH1 dominant, then I would prescribe supplements containing caffeine, green tea, and grape seed extract to stimulate the TH2 side to regain balance. If they were TH2 dominant, then Echinacea, mushrooms, and golden seal would balance out their immune system. Since most people with autoimmune conditions have no idea which branch of their immune system is dominant, they can actually make their condition worse by taking over the counter immune boosters. Lets say for example you were Th1 dominant and you catch a cold. A friend tells you that Echinacea helped them so you take it yourself. Unknowingly you would be flaring up your already dominant Th1 response and cause even more destruction to your thyroid gland."

94 Responses
1013194 tn?1296463081
Never even heard of a TH1 or TH2 dominant..Interesting, will have that checked with next bloods:)
Avatar universal
Very interesting.  Can my PCP test that or is this something special that my doc and lab can't do?
219241 tn?1413541365
Interesting article, but what about if you no longer have a thyroid? I am a Hashi's with less antibodies after the surgery, but still have them...the only thing I find that flares me up is being over heated, like in summer, having an infection, or my knee becomes inflammed, or stress. Never really noticed from taking anything that anything happens.
Good post though, I am about to buy the book anyway just to see what they are on about.
Cheers!
Avatar universal
Good question. I don't know if your GP will run these tests. My chiropractor is running them for me. He's also testing my adrenals and treating my gut/yeast problem by detoxing my gut on a 24 day  cleanse. I've had Hashi friends who've done this with great results, flat stomachs and no more stomach pains.

Most doctors treat symptoms and levels and give us drugs. They don't look for the underlying auto-immune cause, so I don't know if they will run these tests, but you can certainly ask.

Dr. Geronimo can order these tests. If you go to his website, I believe he has contact info.  

I found my doctor by going to Dr. K's website at www.thyroidbook.com and typing my city. He sent me a reference.  

:) Tamra
Avatar universal
Even if you no longer have a thyroid, you still can have the leaky gut that caused all this in the first place.  You can still have these antibodies attacking you and you might benefit from getting to the root of the cause. I'm glad you're buying the book. It explains so much.

:) Tamra
219241 tn?1413541365
Food for thought..bwaaaaah haa haaa.. I make a little joke!  I am trying hard to get to the root of the cause, but without much success! I ordered the book, and will get my US friend to ship it to me with my Care Package. (Still works out cheaper than just getting them to ship one book!)
Avatar universal
Well I'm stuffed lol...I'm allergic to mushies and Echinacea (which is the bark of a tree).

So Tammy...you are TH2 dominant which is otherwsie known as humoral immunity.
This refers to immunity to infection created by proteins termed antibodies, often referred to as "B" cells.

Doesnt make much sense to me considering we all have antibodies.

To really 'get into this' you would have to know molecullar science inside out and know what you are doing as you could destroy or attack cells that you basically need.
I might add that Green Tea may be an antioxident but not good for those with Diabetes as it contains a lot of sugar.
YES ...Sugar.


This is from a place on the Net that I have access to......

These two different methods exist by which the body fights infections. While cellular immunity (Th1) directs Natural Killer T-cells and macrophages to attack abnormal cells and microorganisms at sites of infection inside the cells, humoral immunity (Th2) results in the production of antibodies used to neutralize foreign invaders and substances outside of the cells.

In many cases, an infection is fought with both arms of the immune system.
At other times predominantly one is needed to control an infection. A healthy immune system is both balanced and dynamic: it should be balanced between Th1 and Th2 activity, switching back and forth between the two as needed. This allows for a quick eradication of a threat and then a return to balance before responding to the next threat. The inability to respond adequately with a Th1 response can result in chronic infection and cancer; an overactive Th2 response can contribute to allergies, various syndromes and play a role in autoimmune disease.
In end stage illnesses, both arms of the immune system fail.

Antibodies and Autoimmune Diseases are also hereditary and not always from a 'leaky gut'.

Sorry....but I have seen so many Docs online that claim to do this, that and the other and all they do is ..get rich.

To start with...its not healthy doing a detox (regardless of what others think) as you are flushing not only the bad toxins and germs but also the good ones.
So many people think detox is the answer to everything.
And most people end up with infections after detox as their bodies do not have the natural body germs to fight the infection.

Detox was once a regular thing here in Australia but not anymore.

I tend to be cautious with the statements that your Doctor friend has made Tamra...sorry :(



219241 tn?1413541365
I have to agree on the detox issue. Bit like colonic irrigation. Makes the person think they are doing a great thing, but in fact can make them worse! We have flora in our gut that we need!

I am always an observer in many things. I am hearing Tamra but will buy the book and decide from there. I really think many docs jump on the bandwagon and try to convince many people that they really need their product, etc. I still have issues with doctors not being able to give advice on the no thyroid issue. I have asked, but all the research is for those with thyroids still intact. Obviously us poor surgical and/or RAI's or birth defect non-thyroidians don't get a look in!

Having been an investigator for many years, I take it all in my stride. I never believe anything till I have all the facts and research put together.
219241 tn?1413541365
Oh..you made a boo-boo..Echinacea is a purple flower..not a tree! In Oregon it is a really popular plant as a roadside plant and in home gardens. Very hardy!
744962 tn?1270945638
Hello

I am OK with organic coffee without milk - and can have a block of organic 72% or higher cocoa content chocolate without any problems, if done once in a while.  Mushrooms, soya, Golden Seal,  Echinacea and gluten products get me to flare up - my throat starts to feel tight swollen and have a tingling feeling and I seem to get urinary tracts infections. Oddly I am the same with Vitamin D.  I was givena Vitamin D and Calcium combination by my Endo and two days later found to have a very sore throat, body aches and my body felt hot - odd and do not understand why at all. Am told these cause inflamation in my case.  I am OK with Ezekiel bread (not always able to find it here in Hong Kong and when you do they cost between 50 and 75 Hong Kong Dollars  that would be  6-9 USD per loaf ) needless to say you eat it sparingly LOL.  I have introduced coconut oil each day and have let go of all dairy products.  A slice of piping hot Ezekiel bread toast and a dollop of Coconut oil is my treat.  I make my own nut butters and once made store them in the freezer and that way have organic Peanut, Almond and other butters - made with Cocount oil - this way we prevent the mold as they all are a good source of protein.  I do seem to be OK with the Peantus as I buy organic nuts in their shell - deshell them - soak them overnight - dry and roast them then make the butter - this way I do not have any mold impact from the peanuts.  Hey all of this sounds sooooo tough to do but we are blessed as we can eat daily when many have nothing or very little in many parts of the world.  Each day I work hard to remain positive and to adopt a great attitude as I express my gratitude even with all the crappy things around this condition - as in Africa I have sat next to a number of people dying of aids and when I went into their kitchen to see what I could cook up for them to eat when soooo weak (volunteering work)- in more than one house all I could find was a couple of grains of rice in an old bashed up cake tin.

Wishing you only the best
Avatar universal
I'm going to a doctor here who will monitor my detox. Some of my Hashi friends over at *****  have done this detox with great results - stomach swelling gone down and no more stomach pain.

I understand that many Hashi cases are hereditary. My mom and aunt have it. We believe my grandma, who had her thyroid removed 40 years ago, had it, too.

The question is: Is the thyroid disease hereditary, or the leaky gut which lead to the thyroid disease hereditary?

I'm Italian. I grew up eating bread with each meal and loads of pasta. My family eats way more gluten than most. And LOTS of sweets! Italian cheesecake, pizelles, canolis, Italian cookies of all kinds. You name it.

I am going to give this gut detox a try. I'm at wits end and want to be healthy again. I will let you know in the next coming weeks how all goes. So far, the gluten suggestion has helped because I've had to lower my thyroid meds.

:) Tamra
Avatar universal
You are a gem for sharing your eating tips. I will have to look for the organic decaf next time I'm at whole foods. What are your thoughts on natural peanut butter? The kind you have to stir.

:) Tamra
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