Aa
Hypothyroidism and musculoskeletal disorder
Does anyone else have hypothyroidism and a musculoskeletal disorder?
I suspect my underactive thyroid is aggravating the occupational tendinitis in my forearms. I've had this condition
for almost a year and while it has improved I still don't have a full recovery. My job is physical labour with a lot of repetitive hand/arm movements. I read on a medical website that it is not uncommon for people with thyroid problems to have CTS (carpal tunnel syndrome).
I suspect my underactive thyroid is aggravating the occupational tendinitis in my forearms. I've had this condition
for almost a year and while it has improved I still don't have a full recovery. My job is physical labour with a lot of repetitive hand/arm movements. I read on a medical website that it is not uncommon for people with thyroid problems to have CTS (carpal tunnel syndrome).
Here's an update re: my tendinitis.
I was sent by taxi at Workplace Safety Insurance Board's expense a hour from home to a health clinic for an assessment on January 9. On January 14 I had an ultrasound done in my hometown. Yesterday I got a call from the health clinic requesting I return on January 23.
I was sent by taxi at Workplace Safety Insurance Board's expense a hour from home to a health clinic for an assessment on January 9. On January 14 I had an ultrasound done in my hometown. Yesterday I got a call from the health clinic requesting I return on January 23.
You wrote the following in response to someone else's post recently:
"Yes, ferritin/iron is very important for properly metabolizing thyroid hormone."
On December 9, 2013 my Ferretin was 39 ug/L and the reference ranges for reduced iron stores is 31 - 79 ug/L. Normal iron stores is 80 - 300 ug/L.
TSH 10.43 Reference range: 0.35 - 5.00 mIU/L
T4 Free 13 Reference range: 12 - 22 pmol/L
Free T3 4.2 Reference range: 2.6 - 5. 7 pmol/L
Is it possible that if I can get my iron level up that this might help my thyroid function significantly? I want to make sure I do everything I can before I consider medication. My doctor didn't even mention my ferritin/iron level. I only know about it because I requested a copy of the lab report.
Blackstrap molasses was recommended for its iron content. I recently started taking 1 tablespoon of cooking molasses per day which I was told was blackstrap by staff at the local grocery store. It is actually a combo of blackstrap and fancy. I have seen found blackstrap molasses in another area of this store. I'm a vegetarian.
"Yes, ferritin/iron is very important for properly metabolizing thyroid hormone."
On December 9, 2013 my Ferretin was 39 ug/L and the reference ranges for reduced iron stores is 31 - 79 ug/L. Normal iron stores is 80 - 300 ug/L.
TSH 10.43 Reference range: 0.35 - 5.00 mIU/L
T4 Free 13 Reference range: 12 - 22 pmol/L
Free T3 4.2 Reference range: 2.6 - 5. 7 pmol/L
Is it possible that if I can get my iron level up that this might help my thyroid function significantly? I want to make sure I do everything I can before I consider medication. My doctor didn't even mention my ferritin/iron level. I only know about it because I requested a copy of the lab report.
Blackstrap molasses was recommended for its iron content. I recently started taking 1 tablespoon of cooking molasses per day which I was told was blackstrap by staff at the local grocery store. It is actually a combo of blackstrap and fancy. I have seen found blackstrap molasses in another area of this store. I'm a vegetarian.
Thank you very much for taking the time to share all of this info and your views. I am leery of having my doctor medicate me for my thyroid issue at this time when he doesn't seem to be concerned with the big picture re: my overall health (what might also be out of whack such as adrenal and pituitary glands) and he/the lab are going by an outdated TSH reference range. I am beginning to understand just how complicated the endocrine system is yet conventional medicine seems to not be interested in thorough enough testing and takes a one size fits all approach to treatment. I don't know if my body just isn't producing enough T whatever or it has a conversion problem or I have an autoimmune issue. I forgot to mention that my doctor did send me to a conventional specialist about my thyroid after the naturopath failed. He was not helpful. I don't know if there is any point in asking to see another unless he is up to speed rather than old school.
I am uncomfortable with a synthetic drug partly because they contain fillers/binders/dyes. Which one has the least?
What are the most commonly experienced side effects of Synthyroid/Levothyroxine experienced by patients who are part of this forum? Those in the list in the following links seem as though they would be as uncomfortable as some of my symptoms or worse! If you read the info provided in these links you will see that these drugs should not be used by those with problems with their pituitary or adrenal glands ...).
http://www.drugs.com/synthroid.html and http://www.drugs.com/levothyroxine.html
FYI Re: Affordable Care Act I live in Canada not the USA.
I am uncomfortable with a synthetic drug partly because they contain fillers/binders/dyes. Which one has the least?
What are the most commonly experienced side effects of Synthyroid/Levothyroxine experienced by patients who are part of this forum? Those in the list in the following links seem as though they would be as uncomfortable as some of my symptoms or worse! If you read the info provided in these links you will see that these drugs should not be used by those with problems with their pituitary or adrenal glands ...).
http://www.drugs.com/synthroid.html and http://www.drugs.com/levothyroxine.html
FYI Re: Affordable Care Act I live in Canada not the USA.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Forgot to mention that the link gimel posted contains a lot of information that's very helpful, no matter what med you're on. While part of it is a letter regarding Armour, which isn't an option for you, but the link is well worth the read.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I'll try to answer your questions, satisfactorily.
My comments about TSH and Synthroid were made, because many doctors will only test TSH and many of them will not write scripts for anything but Synthroid.
Rule of thumb for Free T4 is that it should be about mid range. Rule of thumb for Free T3 is upper half of its range, to upper third. FT3 should be higher in its range than FT4 is in its range. These are only rule of thumb, but they give targets to aim for until you find your own correct dosage.
Free T4 is converted to either Free T3 or Reverse T3. Reverse T3 is a mirror image of Free T3 and whereas FT3 is the active hormone that the cells use, RT3 is inactive. From the reading I've done, FT4 is converted to RT3, mainly to prevent it from converting to too much FT3. I must add, at this point, that RT3 is not something I've done a lot of research on and many doctors won't test for it. Sometimes, FT4 converts to too much RT3 and one ends up with RT3 dominance. Supposedly, this is where RT3 "docks" in FT3 receptor, so FT3 can't get into the cells. The typical treatment for RT3 dominance is higher doses of T3 and lower doses of T4; the lower the dose of T4, the less there is to convert to RT3. I've read conflicting articles about this.
Since desiccated hormones are not an option for you, your only choices for medication are the synthetic T4 meds, which include Synthroid, Levoxyl (currently off the market), Tirosint, generic Levo; and the synthetic T3 med, cytomel and it's generic liothyronine.
Synthetic replacement hormones (Synthroid, Levo, etc) are identical to what your body would make if it could. Desiccated hormones contain much more T3 than humans produce and many of us don't need that much; however, there are some who can only be well by taking the desiccated hormones. Every option for treatment should always be considered, by both the doctor and the patient, since the ultimate goal is to alleviate symptoms.
Iodine is most often contraindicated in one with Hashimoto's, as it makes the antibody attack that much worse.
Your lab is using an outdated reference range for TSH. Over 10 yrs ago, AACE recommended that the range be changed to 0.3-3.0, but most labs, have been slow to comply, which means that doctors only see the old ranges on the reports. Keep in mind, though that TSH should never be used as the sole diagnostic or as the sole basis for med adjustments. In most cases, after one is diagnosed and started on med, TSH becomes irrelevant.
Your "bouts" of being uncomfortable were most likely periods of inflammation caused by antibody attacks on your thyroid. As the antibodies attack, they destroy more and more healthy thyroid tissue, which causes your thyroid to be able to produce less and less thyroid hormones. Eventually, it will produce none, and you will totally dependent on a thyroid medication of some kind. You can't live without thyroid hormones and there are no dietary, alternative or holistic methods to treat hypothyroidism; it can only be done by replacing the hormones your thyroid can't produce.
Bear in mind that, even though you have no benefits through your work, you will be required to purchase health insurance, in order to comply with the Affordable Care Act, which goes into effect in just over a week. It's my understanding that most of these policies must provide some type of drug coverage.
None of us are great fans of pharma, but there are certain times, when they really have us over a barrel, because there's nothing to do but take the meds.
My comments about TSH and Synthroid were made, because many doctors will only test TSH and many of them will not write scripts for anything but Synthroid.
Rule of thumb for Free T4 is that it should be about mid range. Rule of thumb for Free T3 is upper half of its range, to upper third. FT3 should be higher in its range than FT4 is in its range. These are only rule of thumb, but they give targets to aim for until you find your own correct dosage.
Free T4 is converted to either Free T3 or Reverse T3. Reverse T3 is a mirror image of Free T3 and whereas FT3 is the active hormone that the cells use, RT3 is inactive. From the reading I've done, FT4 is converted to RT3, mainly to prevent it from converting to too much FT3. I must add, at this point, that RT3 is not something I've done a lot of research on and many doctors won't test for it. Sometimes, FT4 converts to too much RT3 and one ends up with RT3 dominance. Supposedly, this is where RT3 "docks" in FT3 receptor, so FT3 can't get into the cells. The typical treatment for RT3 dominance is higher doses of T3 and lower doses of T4; the lower the dose of T4, the less there is to convert to RT3. I've read conflicting articles about this.
Since desiccated hormones are not an option for you, your only choices for medication are the synthetic T4 meds, which include Synthroid, Levoxyl (currently off the market), Tirosint, generic Levo; and the synthetic T3 med, cytomel and it's generic liothyronine.
Synthetic replacement hormones (Synthroid, Levo, etc) are identical to what your body would make if it could. Desiccated hormones contain much more T3 than humans produce and many of us don't need that much; however, there are some who can only be well by taking the desiccated hormones. Every option for treatment should always be considered, by both the doctor and the patient, since the ultimate goal is to alleviate symptoms.
Iodine is most often contraindicated in one with Hashimoto's, as it makes the antibody attack that much worse.
Your lab is using an outdated reference range for TSH. Over 10 yrs ago, AACE recommended that the range be changed to 0.3-3.0, but most labs, have been slow to comply, which means that doctors only see the old ranges on the reports. Keep in mind, though that TSH should never be used as the sole diagnostic or as the sole basis for med adjustments. In most cases, after one is diagnosed and started on med, TSH becomes irrelevant.
Your "bouts" of being uncomfortable were most likely periods of inflammation caused by antibody attacks on your thyroid. As the antibodies attack, they destroy more and more healthy thyroid tissue, which causes your thyroid to be able to produce less and less thyroid hormones. Eventually, it will produce none, and you will totally dependent on a thyroid medication of some kind. You can't live without thyroid hormones and there are no dietary, alternative or holistic methods to treat hypothyroidism; it can only be done by replacing the hormones your thyroid can't produce.
Bear in mind that, even though you have no benefits through your work, you will be required to purchase health insurance, in order to comply with the Affordable Care Act, which goes into effect in just over a week. It's my understanding that most of these policies must provide some type of drug coverage.
None of us are great fans of pharma, but there are certain times, when they really have us over a barrel, because there's nothing to do but take the meds.
Don't be misled by the title of the thread. My post that I think would be helpful for your discussion with the doctor, includes many references to scientific studies that are in disagreement with what most doctors tell us. I think if you read the material you will see the potential for using it to your advantage.
Thanks for your post/link. Unfortunately Armour isn't an option for me. Please see my reply to Barb135.
Thanks for your reply.
You wrote on another post, "I might mention that some of the "best" doctors are really the "worst" when it comes to thyroid, because they insist that TSH is the gold standard for testing and that Synthroid/
Levothyroxine is the gold standard for medication. They don't do hypothyroidism any favors, at all."
How do I interpret my Free T3 and Free T4 numbers which are within the reference range. What exactly is reverse T3? It is something you mentioned once.
What other accepted conventional medication is there besides Synthroid
/Levothyroxine for hypothryoidism? Please note as a vegetarian I will not take any animal product such as Armour.
FYI In the fall of 2011 I went to a "naturopath" and he flooded my system with iodine which made my hypothyroidism worse! I ended up with new symptoms and my TSH went from 9.48 to 43.8 Once I discontinued the crap I paid and my TSH was retested it was 8.41. Several months later my TSH was 4.03 without medication. Reference range for TSH at my lab is 0.35 – 5.00 miU/ L
My symptoms and TSH have improved on their own in the past so I am not keen on the idea of having to take something for the rest of my life and on top of that have to pay out of pocket because I don't have "benefits" through work.In the last several years I have had bouts where I am rather uncomfortable followed by periods when things are tolerable. So I think my holistic approach is working somewhat re: diet, exercise, and stress management.
I am not a fan of pharmaceuticals and I learned that alternative medicine isn't always gentler on one's body. So what's left?
You wrote on another post, "I might mention that some of the "best" doctors are really the "worst" when it comes to thyroid, because they insist that TSH is the gold standard for testing and that Synthroid/
Levothyroxine is the gold standard for medication. They don't do hypothyroidism any favors, at all."
How do I interpret my Free T3 and Free T4 numbers which are within the reference range. What exactly is reverse T3? It is something you mentioned once.
What other accepted conventional medication is there besides Synthroid
/Levothyroxine for hypothryoidism? Please note as a vegetarian I will not take any animal product such as Armour.
FYI In the fall of 2011 I went to a "naturopath" and he flooded my system with iodine which made my hypothyroidism worse! I ended up with new symptoms and my TSH went from 9.48 to 43.8 Once I discontinued the crap I paid and my TSH was retested it was 8.41. Several months later my TSH was 4.03 without medication. Reference range for TSH at my lab is 0.35 – 5.00 miU/ L
My symptoms and TSH have improved on their own in the past so I am not keen on the idea of having to take something for the rest of my life and on top of that have to pay out of pocket because I don't have "benefits" through work.In the last several years I have had bouts where I am rather uncomfortable followed by periods when things are tolerable. So I think my holistic approach is working somewhat re: diet, exercise, and stress management.
I am not a fan of pharmaceuticals and I learned that alternative medicine isn't always gentler on one's body. So what's left?
If you want some information to use with your doctor and try to persuade him to do what you need, have a look at the info and references in the letter in this link.
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Thyroid-Disorders/Lab-Results-on-Armour---T4-Conversion/show/2048950#post_9694718
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Thyroid-Disorders/Lab-Results-on-Armour---T4-Conversion/show/2048950#post_9694718
COMMUNITY LEADER
You can ask me your questions, here. I'll be happy to answer them. The more I can let people know that TSH is really NOT the gold standard, the happier I am... lol
Ask away...
Ask away...
Hi, I wish to ask a question with reference to a statement you made about "gold standards" re: TSH and meds when replying to someone else's question. Can I do that under my own post or should it been where I read the comment?
Please note I need to learn all I can about the various causes of hypothyroidism and forms of treatment as my doctor is recommending conventional medication and it is a last resort for me. Thanks.
Please note I need to learn all I can about the various causes of hypothyroidism and forms of treatment as my doctor is recommending conventional medication and it is a last resort for me. Thanks.
Hi, I bought cooking molasses (just learned it's a combo of blackstrap and fancy) to try because the only other alternative at my favourite, local grocery store was fancy molasses. I will try to get pure blackstrap next. Please see previous post for info about iron and potassium content.
Thanks for your reply. Yes, we need to be our own advocate.I just bought some cooking molasses (which I just learned online is a combo of blackstrap and fancy) as I couldn't find blackstrap molasses today. It's got 15% daily value of iron and potassium in 1 tablespoon. I will try to get pure blackstrap next.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Unfortunately, doctors don't always take into consideration all the different things we take and there interactions. Nor do they automatically, "offer" to do all the necessary testing. All too often, we have to ask for what we think we need. Some will go ahead and order the tests, others will pooh pooh and ignore you. Sometimes we end up having to kick them to the curb if that becomes their attitude.
I suppose it is possible that I have a magnesium deficiency as a result of the Vitamin D supplement as I do have anxiety, insomnia and calf cramps. You'd think the doctor would test my magnesium level knowing that I am taking Vitamin D, but it was not listed on the recent lab report.
Thanks for the info including the link about potassium. Yes, I should think it is good to know what to expect. I wonder if I will have any success in convincing the doctor to do thorough thyroid testing next time and whether I can get it done in a month or so rather than having to wait three months. If he expects me to consider conventional medication the least he can do is ensure that he is considering the big picture not just going by my TSH!
Thanks for the info. It is important to know. I currently take the following supplements: B complex, B12, and D. I'll have to find out what foods are rich in magnesium too.
Thanks for the tip. I'll have to look into that.
I do need to watch my intake of even natural sugar as I am prone to yeast infections.
I do need to watch my intake of even natural sugar as I am prone to yeast infections.
Hey, Black strapp molasses is a great way to get your Iron plus a load full of great vitamin 2tsp gives you 13.3 % daily recommended but it has to be Blackstrap not just molasses, and it doesn't cause constipation, least not with me. just a thought
Vitamin D council recommend vitamin D to be between 125 - 200 nmol/L year round. From the article "Know the Importance of Taking Enough Magnesium with Your Vitamin D"...
"Such a huge number of people have subtle magnesium deficiency that some researchers and doctors are calling magnesium deficiency an epidemic, and anyone with even a mild or 'subclinical' magnesium deficiency will have this deficiency amplified when Vitamin D is taken. This is creating some uncomfortable 'Side Effects of Vitamin D' that are actually symptoms of an induced magnesium deficiency! Some of the magnesium deficiency symptoms being attributed to Vitamin D are:
Headaches
Insomnia
Jitteriness
Muscle Cramps
Anxiety
Heart Palpitations
Constipation"
"Such a huge number of people have subtle magnesium deficiency that some researchers and doctors are calling magnesium deficiency an epidemic, and anyone with even a mild or 'subclinical' magnesium deficiency will have this deficiency amplified when Vitamin D is taken. This is creating some uncomfortable 'Side Effects of Vitamin D' that are actually symptoms of an induced magnesium deficiency! Some of the magnesium deficiency symptoms being attributed to Vitamin D are:
Headaches
Insomnia
Jitteriness
Muscle Cramps
Anxiety
Heart Palpitations
Constipation"
COMMUNITY LEADER
Because Hashimoto's is the most common cause for hypothyroidism in the developed world, many doctors don't order antibody tests, because they "assume" that's what you have and treatment won't change, whether you have the antibodies or not. The reason it's nice to know if you have Hashimoto's is because it's progressive in that, as the antibodies destroy healthy thyroid tissue, your thyroid produces less and less hormones, until eventually, it produces none. As the disease progresses, replacement thyroid hormones have to be adjusted accordingly. Once the thyroid is no longer producing hormones, levels, typically, stabilize and adjustments will be fewer and further between.
Looking at your MCH, MCV, MCHC, you're probably okay. They all have to do with the amount of hemoglobin in the blood and they're all considered together; a change in one, can cause a change in another.
Yes, vitamin B12 does help produce red blood cells -- that's one of the main reasons you need it. Red blood cells carry oxygen throughout your body and every cell needs oxygen; that's part of what gives us energy.
Your potassium level is low in the range, but that's a really wide range; I've never seen one like that. The range my lab uses is 3.5-5.3. It's important not to get too much potassium, because that can be as bad (or worse) than not enough. A small baked potato with the skin provides an excellent source of potassium - even more than bananas. The following link has some good information regarding potassium and the best sources:
http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/potassium-sources-and-benefits?page=2
Looking at your MCH, MCV, MCHC, you're probably okay. They all have to do with the amount of hemoglobin in the blood and they're all considered together; a change in one, can cause a change in another.
Yes, vitamin B12 does help produce red blood cells -- that's one of the main reasons you need it. Red blood cells carry oxygen throughout your body and every cell needs oxygen; that's part of what gives us energy.
Your potassium level is low in the range, but that's a really wide range; I've never seen one like that. The range my lab uses is 3.5-5.3. It's important not to get too much potassium, because that can be as bad (or worse) than not enough. A small baked potato with the skin provides an excellent source of potassium - even more than bananas. The following link has some good information regarding potassium and the best sources:
http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/potassium-sources-and-benefits?page=2
Thank you for the info.
Same thing for my lab re: Vitamin D (50 nmol/L) and I had to pay for that test. My level was 92 on July 30, 2013. I continue to take a supplement.
Barb135
I forgot to include my potassium level with my results. It is 3.8 and the reference range is 3.3 - 9.1 nmol/L.I sometimes get those nasty calf cramps in the middle of the night. I will have to figure out how to increase potassium in my diet as well as iron (have reduced stores according to Dec. 9/13 bloodwork result previously posted).
Same thing for my lab re: Vitamin D (50 nmol/L) and I had to pay for that test. My level was 92 on July 30, 2013. I continue to take a supplement.
Barb135
I forgot to include my potassium level with my results. It is 3.8 and the reference range is 3.3 - 9.1 nmol/L.I sometimes get those nasty calf cramps in the middle of the night. I will have to figure out how to increase potassium in my diet as well as iron (have reduced stores according to Dec. 9/13 bloodwork result previously posted).
My B12 serum range is 162 - 811 pmol/L. My lab also thinks vitamin D is normal at 50 nmol/L. Pfft. :)
I had terrible adrenal insufficiency with vitamin B12 deficiency. I had B2 (riboflavin) deficiency (cracks at the corners of my mouth a classic symptom) and who knows how many other B deficiencies.
"All of the B vitamins work synergistically in adrenal hormone production, especially vitamin B-6, pantothenic acid and niacin. Not only do they support adrenal hormone production, they also protect against the effects of excess cortisol."
I had terrible adrenal insufficiency with vitamin B12 deficiency. I had B2 (riboflavin) deficiency (cracks at the corners of my mouth a classic symptom) and who knows how many other B deficiencies.
"All of the B vitamins work synergistically in adrenal hormone production, especially vitamin B-6, pantothenic acid and niacin. Not only do they support adrenal hormone production, they also protect against the effects of excess cortisol."
Thank you for the info.
So I do have a combo of hypothyroidism and perimenopause.
I'm not familiar with Hashimoto's.I wonder why the doctor didn't order antibody testing this time around.
I'm so sorry there was a typo in my results. I only caught it when I read your reply about one of my red blood cell indices. Please note my MCH is 34 not 24. Again reference range is 27 - 32 pg. This time I will include some of the hematology. MCV is 99. The reference range is 80 - 99 fl.
Plus my MCHC is 347. The reference range is 320 - 360 g/L. And finally my WBC (white blood cell) is 4.0 The reference range is 4.0 - 11.0 x 10E9/L. I don't know what these mean in the slightest.
I noticed on the bottle of fast dissolving sublingual Vitamin B12 1000 mcg that it states, "Helps produce red blood cells." That certainly isn't why I am taking it! It's because I do not get enough from my lacto-ovo vegetarian diet. I have yogurt regularly, but eggs occasionally.
Again thank you for our communication.
So I do have a combo of hypothyroidism and perimenopause.
I'm not familiar with Hashimoto's.I wonder why the doctor didn't order antibody testing this time around.
I'm so sorry there was a typo in my results. I only caught it when I read your reply about one of my red blood cell indices. Please note my MCH is 34 not 24. Again reference range is 27 - 32 pg. This time I will include some of the hematology. MCV is 99. The reference range is 80 - 99 fl.
Plus my MCHC is 347. The reference range is 320 - 360 g/L. And finally my WBC (white blood cell) is 4.0 The reference range is 4.0 - 11.0 x 10E9/L. I don't know what these mean in the slightest.
I noticed on the bottle of fast dissolving sublingual Vitamin B12 1000 mcg that it states, "Helps produce red blood cells." That certainly isn't why I am taking it! It's because I do not get enough from my lacto-ovo vegetarian diet. I have yogurt regularly, but eggs occasionally.
Again thank you for our communication.
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