Aa
Hypothyroidism
Hi,
My daughter age is 8 years. Yesterday 19.08.2013 her thyroid test results are came like below
T3: 224.37(ref.range 60 - 180)
T4: 8.4 (ref.range 4.5 - 12.6)
TSH: >150 (ref.range 0.35 - 5.50)
Thyroperoxidase Antibody (AMA): 420.0 (ref.range <60)
Anti Thyroblobulin Antibody (ATG): 893.0 (ref.range <60)
we (parents) does't have any thyroid problems. But she is facing problems from weight gain and body pains.
By seeing the results we are worried lot about her health. Please explain me about the problem and precautions need to be taken care. Is there any permanent cure for this problem? what problems she have to face in future?
Thanks.
My daughter age is 8 years. Yesterday 19.08.2013 her thyroid test results are came like below
T3: 224.37(ref.range 60 - 180)
T4: 8.4 (ref.range 4.5 - 12.6)
TSH: >150 (ref.range 0.35 - 5.50)
Thyroperoxidase Antibody (AMA): 420.0 (ref.range <60)
Anti Thyroblobulin Antibody (ATG): 893.0 (ref.range <60)
we (parents) does't have any thyroid problems. But she is facing problems from weight gain and body pains.
By seeing the results we are worried lot about her health. Please explain me about the problem and precautions need to be taken care. Is there any permanent cure for this problem? what problems she have to face in future?
Thanks.
Thanks for trying to provide us information. I always try to evaluate such info in light of what I have experienced and learned from countless hours of searching the net. I have read and absorbed the book of one of the foremost proponents of gluten intolerance/leaky gut syndrome as a cause for Hashimoto's, and came away with more questions than answers.
For example there was no scientific evidence provided for some of his assertions, only anecdotal evidence. Further there was never any attempt to explain how the immune system's reaction to gluten molecules would produce more than one specific antibody, yet we know that Hashi's can be associated with either or both TPO ab and TG ab. Also, it was clearly stated that whatever damage previously occurring to the thyroid gland would not be repaired, so thyroid med was required to offset.
The thing I got from the whole presentation in the book was a feeling that it was a new way for that group of doctors to generate new revenue with the extensive testing they recommended, plus the supplements only they could provide. So, I admittedly came away from it as a skeptic.
I don't know if their is any way to satisfactorily resolve this issue until there are scientifically valid studies done to prove or refute the premise of gluten intolerance/leaky gut syndrome as the cause for autoimmune Hashimoto's. From all that i have learned the main reasons that hypothyroid patients continue to suffer with hypo symptoms after starting on thyroid medication are that their doctors have the "Immaculate TSH Belief" and only pay attention to TSH for diagnosis and treatment, as well as their doctors using "Reference Range Endocrinology". Neither of these work for most hypo patients.
As I say so often, a good thyroid doctor will treat a hypo patient clinically by testing and adjusting Free T3 and Free T4 as necessary to relieve symptoms, without being constrained by resultant TSH levels. There is good insight into clinical treatment in this letter written by a good thyroid doctor for patients that he sometimes consults with after initial tests and evaluation. The letter is then sent to the participating doctor of the patient to help guide treatment. In the letter, please note the statement, "the ultimate criterion for dose adjustment must always be the clinical response of the patient."
http://hormonerestoration.com/files/ThyroidPMD.pdf
For example there was no scientific evidence provided for some of his assertions, only anecdotal evidence. Further there was never any attempt to explain how the immune system's reaction to gluten molecules would produce more than one specific antibody, yet we know that Hashi's can be associated with either or both TPO ab and TG ab. Also, it was clearly stated that whatever damage previously occurring to the thyroid gland would not be repaired, so thyroid med was required to offset.
The thing I got from the whole presentation in the book was a feeling that it was a new way for that group of doctors to generate new revenue with the extensive testing they recommended, plus the supplements only they could provide. So, I admittedly came away from it as a skeptic.
I don't know if their is any way to satisfactorily resolve this issue until there are scientifically valid studies done to prove or refute the premise of gluten intolerance/leaky gut syndrome as the cause for autoimmune Hashimoto's. From all that i have learned the main reasons that hypothyroid patients continue to suffer with hypo symptoms after starting on thyroid medication are that their doctors have the "Immaculate TSH Belief" and only pay attention to TSH for diagnosis and treatment, as well as their doctors using "Reference Range Endocrinology". Neither of these work for most hypo patients.
As I say so often, a good thyroid doctor will treat a hypo patient clinically by testing and adjusting Free T3 and Free T4 as necessary to relieve symptoms, without being constrained by resultant TSH levels. There is good insight into clinical treatment in this letter written by a good thyroid doctor for patients that he sometimes consults with after initial tests and evaluation. The letter is then sent to the participating doctor of the patient to help guide treatment. In the letter, please note the statement, "the ultimate criterion for dose adjustment must always be the clinical response of the patient."
http://hormonerestoration.com/files/ThyroidPMD.pdf
Correction:
Line 7, §3 -->"A gene is necessary for immune response to gluten",
should read : "A gene is NOT necessary for immune response to gluten."
Also while I'm back here's some more information on gluten testing complications:
Testing for Anti-gliadin antibodies (AGA) for both IgA and IgG (IgA and IgG, which have a roll in controlling the immune system); anti-endomysial antibodies (EMA) -- IgA; anti-tissue transglutaminase antibodies (tTG) -- IgA, and total IgA level,according to Dr. Thomas O'Bryan (an expert on gluten intolerance), these tests give a false negative 7 out of 10 times!
IgA deficiency occurrence is 1000%-1500% higher (not a typo) in people with Celiacs, so naturally the blood panel returns negative results, as these people lack IgA antibodies.
There are far too many other discrepancies in gluten testing and
this is just one of the factors contributing to the high rate of under-diagnosis of celiac and gluten intolerance.
If you also account for the incidence of hypothyroidism & hashimoto's that goes undiagnosed or worse misdiagnosed, then you will probably understand the need for a more "functional" approach to these health matters.
Another time I will elaborate on the "auto-immune" part of hashimoto's, as we all know doctors just prescribing hormones will do nothing for this aspect, leaving the patient vulnerable to post treatment thyroid holiday blues symptoms-(after a few weeks of feeling better into the hormone treatment) and to develop more autoimmune conditions in the future.
This is not intended as a substitute for medical advice.
Love & Light
Niko
Line 7, §3 -->"A gene is necessary for immune response to gluten",
should read : "A gene is NOT necessary for immune response to gluten."
Also while I'm back here's some more information on gluten testing complications:
Testing for Anti-gliadin antibodies (AGA) for both IgA and IgG (IgA and IgG, which have a roll in controlling the immune system); anti-endomysial antibodies (EMA) -- IgA; anti-tissue transglutaminase antibodies (tTG) -- IgA, and total IgA level,according to Dr. Thomas O'Bryan (an expert on gluten intolerance), these tests give a false negative 7 out of 10 times!
IgA deficiency occurrence is 1000%-1500% higher (not a typo) in people with Celiacs, so naturally the blood panel returns negative results, as these people lack IgA antibodies.
There are far too many other discrepancies in gluten testing and
this is just one of the factors contributing to the high rate of under-diagnosis of celiac and gluten intolerance.
If you also account for the incidence of hypothyroidism & hashimoto's that goes undiagnosed or worse misdiagnosed, then you will probably understand the need for a more "functional" approach to these health matters.
Another time I will elaborate on the "auto-immune" part of hashimoto's, as we all know doctors just prescribing hormones will do nothing for this aspect, leaving the patient vulnerable to post treatment thyroid holiday blues symptoms-(after a few weeks of feeling better into the hormone treatment) and to develop more autoimmune conditions in the future.
This is not intended as a substitute for medical advice.
Love & Light
Niko
FYI:
We all must become more vigilant with such investigations ,specially in light of all impairment that accompanies hypothyroid conditions.
The body may simply be too exhausted to even properly process the proteins needed to make very many antibodies. A patient for example who has negatively tested and still suspects a gluten related reaction/symptoms, is wise to seriously consider his body's message
and pursue this further. However, conventional medicine is not up with this,
considering the complexities, costs involved and the time involved to become "established" medical practice.
Re:Grains/carbs/gluten syndrome/gluten intolerance/celiacs
Look into Gliadin test (urine), by Cyrex labs for educational purposes.
They test 12 forms-not just the alpha ordered by most doctors- of gliadins regarding gluten intolerance (not necessarily digestive).
Now they can also test which part of the body is affected.
Duration of gluten exposure is key factor in developing other autoimmune diseases.
Gluten Intolerance may go undetected and undiagnosed or misdiagnosed for years and the same with Celiac Disease but to a possibly lesser extend .
The longer sensitive individuals eat gluten, the more likely they are to develop other autoimmune diseases.
A gene is necessary for immune response to gluten*, but if it is present it does predispose.
I would suggest Dr. Coca's Pulse test-a free download-for further screening and to follow-up with an elimination/or hypoallergenic diet for verification
The are two things to note here:
1.Gluten effects can stay in the body for months after exposure, however, symptom improvement could be experienced in days or weeks.
2.Additionally, this may help test/screen for cross reactive foods and other potentially problematic substances, gluten grain substitutes/foods and organs/tissues most prone to gluten damage due to their similar protein structure.
A 1999 landmark study published in Gastroenterology found that the duration of exposure to gluten in celiac disease* patients affects the risk of developing other autoimmune diseases. The finding made age at diagnosis an important factor in the overall health of patients with celiac disease.
An Italian research team screened 909 patients with celiac disease* for other autoimmune diseases, including IDDM (Insulin-Dependent Diabetes Mellitus), DH (Dermatitis herpetiformis), Hashimoto’s thyroiditis or Graves’ disease, autoimmune hepatitis, alopecia, atrophic autoimmune gastritis, connective tissue disease (rheumatoid arthritis, systemic lupus erythematosus, dermatomyositis, scleroderma, or Sjogren’s disease), psoriasis, Addison’s disease, unexplained cerebellar ataxia, epilepsy with cerebral calcification, or immune anemia, neutropenia, or thrombocytopenia. They then compared the prevalence of these conditions in three different subgroups, which were separated based on when the patient was diagnosed with celiac disease (before age 2, between ages 2 and 10, and after age 10).
The team found that the prevalence of the other conditions was highest in the subgroup of patients diagnosed after age 10. Similarly, patients diagnosed between ages 2 and 10 had a higher rate of other conditions than those diagnosed before age 2. This suggests that the prevalence of autoimmune conditions increases with increasing age at diagnosis of celiac disease (ie, increasing duration of exposure to gluten).
There's a chart which demonstrates the frequency of developing other autoimmune diseases.
This information is available only with paid subscription and is copy-written.
The authors concluded: “Indeed, the age at diagnosis of celiac disease* is the single best predictor of the prevalence of autoimmune disease.”
Ventura A, Magazzú G, Greco L; SIGEP Study Group for Autoimmune Disorders in Celiac Disease. Duration of exposure to gluten and risk for autoimmune disorders. Gastroenterology. 1999;117:297–303.
Please keep an open mind and allow some latitude, as most of these concepts are mainly outside conventional medicine investigation and should conventional medicine have been able to address these issues properly,
perhaps we would not have the need to participate in these forums.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
I have nothing to gain here, but I hope it may help some people who could be unnecessarily suffering because of the gaps and inefficiencies of our health/medical care systems.
Love & Light
Niko
We all must become more vigilant with such investigations ,specially in light of all impairment that accompanies hypothyroid conditions.
The body may simply be too exhausted to even properly process the proteins needed to make very many antibodies. A patient for example who has negatively tested and still suspects a gluten related reaction/symptoms, is wise to seriously consider his body's message
and pursue this further. However, conventional medicine is not up with this,
considering the complexities, costs involved and the time involved to become "established" medical practice.
Re:Grains/carbs/gluten syndrome/gluten intolerance/celiacs
Look into Gliadin test (urine), by Cyrex labs for educational purposes.
They test 12 forms-not just the alpha ordered by most doctors- of gliadins regarding gluten intolerance (not necessarily digestive).
Now they can also test which part of the body is affected.
Duration of gluten exposure is key factor in developing other autoimmune diseases.
Gluten Intolerance may go undetected and undiagnosed or misdiagnosed for years and the same with Celiac Disease but to a possibly lesser extend .
The longer sensitive individuals eat gluten, the more likely they are to develop other autoimmune diseases.
A gene is necessary for immune response to gluten*, but if it is present it does predispose.
I would suggest Dr. Coca's Pulse test-a free download-for further screening and to follow-up with an elimination/or hypoallergenic diet for verification
The are two things to note here:
1.Gluten effects can stay in the body for months after exposure, however, symptom improvement could be experienced in days or weeks.
2.Additionally, this may help test/screen for cross reactive foods and other potentially problematic substances, gluten grain substitutes/foods and organs/tissues most prone to gluten damage due to their similar protein structure.
A 1999 landmark study published in Gastroenterology found that the duration of exposure to gluten in celiac disease* patients affects the risk of developing other autoimmune diseases. The finding made age at diagnosis an important factor in the overall health of patients with celiac disease.
An Italian research team screened 909 patients with celiac disease* for other autoimmune diseases, including IDDM (Insulin-Dependent Diabetes Mellitus), DH (Dermatitis herpetiformis), Hashimoto’s thyroiditis or Graves’ disease, autoimmune hepatitis, alopecia, atrophic autoimmune gastritis, connective tissue disease (rheumatoid arthritis, systemic lupus erythematosus, dermatomyositis, scleroderma, or Sjogren’s disease), psoriasis, Addison’s disease, unexplained cerebellar ataxia, epilepsy with cerebral calcification, or immune anemia, neutropenia, or thrombocytopenia. They then compared the prevalence of these conditions in three different subgroups, which were separated based on when the patient was diagnosed with celiac disease (before age 2, between ages 2 and 10, and after age 10).
The team found that the prevalence of the other conditions was highest in the subgroup of patients diagnosed after age 10. Similarly, patients diagnosed between ages 2 and 10 had a higher rate of other conditions than those diagnosed before age 2. This suggests that the prevalence of autoimmune conditions increases with increasing age at diagnosis of celiac disease (ie, increasing duration of exposure to gluten).
There's a chart which demonstrates the frequency of developing other autoimmune diseases.
This information is available only with paid subscription and is copy-written.
The authors concluded: “Indeed, the age at diagnosis of celiac disease* is the single best predictor of the prevalence of autoimmune disease.”
Ventura A, Magazzú G, Greco L; SIGEP Study Group for Autoimmune Disorders in Celiac Disease. Duration of exposure to gluten and risk for autoimmune disorders. Gastroenterology. 1999;117:297–303.
Please keep an open mind and allow some latitude, as most of these concepts are mainly outside conventional medicine investigation and should conventional medicine have been able to address these issues properly,
perhaps we would not have the need to participate in these forums.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
I have nothing to gain here, but I hope it may help some people who could be unnecessarily suffering because of the gaps and inefficiencies of our health/medical care systems.
Love & Light
Niko
COMMUNITY LEADER
The elevated TPOab and TGab indicate Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. The high TSH indicates hypothyroidism. Hashimoto's is the number one cause of hypothyroidism.
It's not true that the majority of people with Hashimoto's are gluten intolerant; many of us have absolutely no issue at all with gluten.
Unfortunately, your doctor tested Total T3 and Total T4, so we don't really know exactly what the actual thyroid status is, because some of the T3 and T4 (approximately 90-95%) is bound by protein, therefore unusable. You should get the doctor to test Free T3 and Free T4, to see how much of the hormones are actually available for use/conversion.
Has there been a thyroid ultrasound to determine if there may be nodule(s) that could be leaking hormones, independently, of the thyroid?
There is no cure for Hashimoto's; once everything is sorted out and the exact issue is pinpointed, your daughter will most likely have to be on a thyroid replacement medication for life.
While autoimmune diseases often run in families, they don't have to. Additionally, once a person has one autoimmune, the chances of getting another (or more), are greater.
What symptoms does your daughter have, other than weight gain and body pain?
It's not true that the majority of people with Hashimoto's are gluten intolerant; many of us have absolutely no issue at all with gluten.
Unfortunately, your doctor tested Total T3 and Total T4, so we don't really know exactly what the actual thyroid status is, because some of the T3 and T4 (approximately 90-95%) is bound by protein, therefore unusable. You should get the doctor to test Free T3 and Free T4, to see how much of the hormones are actually available for use/conversion.
Has there been a thyroid ultrasound to determine if there may be nodule(s) that could be leaking hormones, independently, of the thyroid?
There is no cure for Hashimoto's; once everything is sorted out and the exact issue is pinpointed, your daughter will most likely have to be on a thyroid replacement medication for life.
While autoimmune diseases often run in families, they don't have to. Additionally, once a person has one autoimmune, the chances of getting another (or more), are greater.
What symptoms does your daughter have, other than weight gain and body pain?
Hi srinu_l.
Sorry about your daughter's suffering.
It is hard for you the parents to witness this.
But please rest assured, that this can be controlled, provided you get for her proper medical advice and treatment soon.
The high TSH indicates hypothyroidism that has been likely undiagnosed since a long time.
High thyroid antibodies point to Hashimotos's Thyroiditis, an Autoimmune Hypothyroid condition.
As Dr. Mark Lupo mentioned TSH and T3 both so high, are very unusual lab results.
These results should be rechecked and labs to be repeated to confirm accuracy.
Please consider immediately for her to see a pediatric Endocrinologist, even better, one who specializes in Thyroid disorders!
Permanent cure is rare, if indeed this is A/I Hypothyroidism (Hashimoto's),
however, Selenium supplementation (200mcg adult dose to be adjusted for her weight) and gluten free diet on a permanent basis if gluten intolerant, may help lower the autoimmune response substantially!
The majority of Hashimoto's sufferers have gluten intolerance and don't even know it!
The gluten molecules resemble the TPO molecules and thus the immune system in its response against gluten, attacks the TPO in the Thyroid also!
TPO=Thyroid Peroxidase. This enzyme plays a central role in the function of the thyroid and is a frequent type of antigen of auto-antibodies in autoimmune thyroid disease, with such antibodies being called anti-thyroid peroxidase antibodies (anti-TPO antibodies) most commonly associated with Hashimoto's.
Other factors have to be considered as well, but following the above, is a good start to my opinion.
Please post again to let us know and meanwhile ,should you have any questions you may post anytime, or you may pm me directly.
Note that this is not intended as a substitute for medical advice.
Best wishes to you and your daughter.
Love & Light
Niko
Sorry about your daughter's suffering.
It is hard for you the parents to witness this.
But please rest assured, that this can be controlled, provided you get for her proper medical advice and treatment soon.
The high TSH indicates hypothyroidism that has been likely undiagnosed since a long time.
High thyroid antibodies point to Hashimotos's Thyroiditis, an Autoimmune Hypothyroid condition.
As Dr. Mark Lupo mentioned TSH and T3 both so high, are very unusual lab results.
These results should be rechecked and labs to be repeated to confirm accuracy.
Please consider immediately for her to see a pediatric Endocrinologist, even better, one who specializes in Thyroid disorders!
Permanent cure is rare, if indeed this is A/I Hypothyroidism (Hashimoto's),
however, Selenium supplementation (200mcg adult dose to be adjusted for her weight) and gluten free diet on a permanent basis if gluten intolerant, may help lower the autoimmune response substantially!
The majority of Hashimoto's sufferers have gluten intolerance and don't even know it!
The gluten molecules resemble the TPO molecules and thus the immune system in its response against gluten, attacks the TPO in the Thyroid also!
TPO=Thyroid Peroxidase. This enzyme plays a central role in the function of the thyroid and is a frequent type of antigen of auto-antibodies in autoimmune thyroid disease, with such antibodies being called anti-thyroid peroxidase antibodies (anti-TPO antibodies) most commonly associated with Hashimoto's.
Other factors have to be considered as well, but following the above, is a good start to my opinion.
Please post again to let us know and meanwhile ,should you have any questions you may post anytime, or you may pm me directly.
Note that this is not intended as a substitute for medical advice.
Best wishes to you and your daughter.
Love & Light
Niko
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
She needs to see a pediatric endocrinologist to sort this out. The T3 is high as is TSH -- that is unusual and should be confirmed w/ repeat labs. The antibodies are positive meaning there is an autoimmune attack on the thyroid. Hopefullly she has been referred to a pedriatic endocrinologist given the unusual lab pattern, symptoms and young age.
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Thyroid Disorders Community
We tapped the CDC for information on what you need to know about radiation exposure
Endocrinologist Mark Lupo, MD, answers 10 questions about thyroid disorders and how to treat them
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
