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1222861 tn?1267287188

I have Lab Results does anyone understand them?

I am totally new here.  I'm Canadian.  For the first time ever I actually have actual Lab results to share.  Usually our healthcare providers do not share this info with us.  They will tell us what is wrong, prescribe meds but we never get actual results or see them. I was at my wits end with my health so at my own expense I recently hired a Naturopath and asked her to run a bunch of tests so we could get to the bottom of what was wrong with me.  I knew my meds were not working.  Well, we did not get off to a very good start.  They did my bloodwork Jan 23rd.  I have been getting sicker and sicker and trying to be patient, 2wks went by and I phoned and they said they had nothing and that I should be patient and they would call me.  Then 4wks went by and I still hadn't heard anything so I sent an email.  Course, my new Dr is away on holidays now.  But my email prompted her office to look for my results and they found that they were indeed there and had been since Feb 4.   I have all over muscle cramping so bad I can barely get dressed and its so painful.  So I was not a very happy camper.  Anyways the test results were then emailed to my Dr and then to me.  They were quite apologetic.  

Here they are:    TSH 66.00         Free T3  1.50     FreeT4  <0.4       RT3 <9.0

Can anyone tell me what this means?  I don't see new DR until Mar 2.  She did phone me and said you need need to see a medical DR right away and get on a Combo T3/T4 Med.  In my brain fog I did not instruct the clinic properly.  I went to a walk in clinic and show them my test results and they say, why don't we give you some Synthroid.  And I said No.  I have been on that and Eltroxin and on NaturThroid and nothing works I want Cytomel isn't that a T3/T4 med? and they say yup and prescribe it to me.  So I have this prescription filled and get home and I look it up and find out its only a T3 medication.  But I'm thinking well, I've never done this one before ...so maybe it'll work.  .25 mcg 2 times a day - I guess we will fix everything up when my Dr gets back but in the interim can anyone tell me how to read these test results?  Do you think T3 alone can do something or do I need to add T4?   Thanx so much!  Connie        
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393685 tn?1425812522
I think your on the right track Connie. Seems from what you said - your life "back in the days" was much different and now you are seeing more living in the city.

I didn't mean to come off as chalking everything up to bad eating and assume that was your situation... its just - so many people assume things and don't look at the obvious sometimes and need to tweek their lifesyles to get better too. You seem pretty concious of your eating from what you post - so that is good.

Iodine... you bring that up... it may not be so bad to learn about that and see if the pieces fall into place for you... You  have an NP that is running tests - so I believe this NP will bring up iodine with you.. Just learn some things... I don't know about your area you live in with deficiencies - but in my area - in the "goiter belt" of America... iodine is a real concern for us here.

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1222861 tn?1267287188
Thanks again Stella for your insight.  Yes this seems to be a real catch 22.  I do not think the T3 is the answer either but it will do for a couple days.  I really could not move a muscle before so to feel better is a welcome relief even if this treatment is just a "bandaid."   I will definately have it straightened out right away.   I expect to have a much better picture Tuesday once I have a chance to speak the the NP face to face.  

I have already been forewarned that the Adrenal/Cortisol panel that has come back is not very good.  In fact I was told, it will require that my MD get involved.  But thankfully the NP has already completely ruled out my eating habits.  Although, this being said, I have always been anaemic and have super low blood pressure.  I have always known this as my MD has put me on "Campbell Soup" diets in the past to raise my sodium levels.  The NP decided to put me on some liquid iron and liquid B12 for that for the past 5wks....but perhaps I have an Iodine issue?  I really don't like having to take supplements when I have always had such healthy eating habits though.  

You see I am more of the exception than the rule when it comes to food. I am not a vegan or vegetarian or anything I eat everything and I absolutely love to cook.  I call it my stress management system. I love to shop for fresh ingredients like most women like to shop for shoes....It totally excites me.  I have always consumed fresh, homemade, unprocessed foods and I take pride in preparing everything from scratch.  I grew up alot differently than most people, in total isolation, in small logging camps all over the WestCoast of BC that were only accessible by seaplane so junk food was never available to me and as a resuIt I never developed a taste for it.  I was homeschooled to boot.  Fishing and hunting was second nature to me.  But don't get the idea that I am some "granola eater" cause I'm not...lol  I have eaten at McDonalds before, however, if given a choice, I'd take a flame broiled Whopper over a Big Mac anyday & I might only eat fast food once a year when we are on the road out of pure convenience but most the time I actually have cooler packed.  I have always preferred water over any other beverage.  You see growing up we always had lots of water, so if we were thirsty thats what you got, thats all there was.  We could not got to a grocery store if we ran out of something.  I can probably count on one hand how many sodas I've consumed in my years.  I do not even eat bread or pasta that often and Milk on its own, I just never developed a taste for either.  In fact my mother said even as a baby I would not even breastfeed.  As her first born she has never let me forget this.  I also only cook on stainless, cast iron or ceramic.  As I do not have any children just a "feathered child", that is a hand fed, Blue and Gold Macaw.  She is 16 I have had her since she was a baby.  Using any teflon coated cookware is a total no no with birds as the toxins they emit when heated can kill them so I have never used it or allowed it in my home.  So even my cook ware is healthy.

I am reaching here but maybe my body simply got sick from the toxic shock of moving to the city.  It's plausible.   It seems my whole family got sick after we moved to "the city."  Unfortunately, the city is where life our lives have taken us now so that can't be changed.  I am a manager of an insurance brokerage, 27yrs now, so my job is stressful, my commute to work is over an hour each way in bumper to bumper traffic which is pretty stressful too and like most families life has its fair share of challenges for us that take their toll on us emotionally.   So I don't doubt that my body, mind and spirit are a little worn out right now.  

I really am starting fresh here with my health.  That was the purpose of hiring the NP at my own expense and running all these tests in the first place.  I expect I will be back in my MD's office with all these tests and he can look at it all and finally treat and medicate me properly.   Have a great day and thank you so much for your advice  valuable time.  Connie    
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393685 tn?1425812522
I was afraid my post was too long and would not go throught ... lol

.. so part 2

cytomel....

Yes - I can't see why you wouldn't feel great on this... You would . and should... T3 is a vital hormone that can alter many things and get that feel well feeling running high...

I may be not saying this right... but T3 is a stimulant to some levels... like taking Adderall or Redilin (sp) or on those lines... These drugs are a stimulant and can tell the body things are good - when really that is a false 4 response..

Even through we - as human beings - NEED T3 - directly into our bodies - over stimulanting it is not going to help you at all. You are taking a high dose of T3 medication with horrible LOW T4 - AND T3 labs ( Jan testing) - so adding in just T3 will tell you FEEL good - but its still masking the issues... Don't be fooled that .50mcg of Cytomel was your answer - b/c it certainly is not what will put your health back into goodness.

Ask yourself this? - Why are my T3 / T4 levels low to begin with? ( could be thyroid, right?) - so the real question would be - WHY is my thyroid not working right? - most likely the answer is on your food plate and in your stress life style levels. Once you figure our that why - changing things up - and possible adding in the right meds will give you a better outcome.

I still go back to your original advice from that clinic and that - in itself - upsets me so much... this is wrong to offer this as high as it was... I don't care how and what it is doing right now for you... It's way too high and ignorant from them to let you walk out with it. On a lighter note... you go to the doc Tuesday right? - so if you feel doing this until then and being open with the doctor on what's going on is done... then hang on until then I suppose. I just know - what I know now - I wouldn't do this for myself.
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393685 tn?1425812522
This is my thought.... it looks like to me... there were some things going on for a long while now. You said the 200mcg was not doing what you needed alone - and as I said that is a high amount of T4... but you felt bad.

The 125mg NT was horrible for you maybe for a couple of reasons. Most commonly - if you were drained out prior to NT for a long period - your adrenals would be having issues by now. That was my train of thought in my first post b/c when your adrenals have had to work too hard due to abnormal thyroid levels - most desiccated medication when started will counteract itself to some degree... Thyroid lab number will get somewhat better - but the paitient suffering the symtpoms find they almost feel worse. That's all related to the adrenal workup (Saliva Adrenal/Cortisol test) you are getting. As I suggested above - "Pray the adrenals were strong for you." but the symptoms you expressed above - really lean on them not working right.

The other logical thing is the meds were too low for sure... but again the more meds... on bad adrenals - the worse you may feel...

Now the period issue..... usually "thyroid" or "adrenal" is not related - even medication wise... but always - always remember...... the body works as a whole... Connecting the dots inside your endocrine system with everything is most important and only treating one thing at a time doesn't benefit you at all either...

I think your NP is thinking along those lines too. That is why the other tests is ordered for you. The Female Hormone Saliva Test. These will measure the amount of estrogen/estrodiol progestrone and testosterone levels available in your body and due to these being very sensitive - you must take them as a group and tweek them all to optimal levels... These hormones are very hard to regulate to be dead on so here - for sure - may require some work... Just to connect some symptoms w/ likely issues are:

Your weight gain?? may = high cortisol/ ( thyroid meds will then couteract this) + low thyroid ( metobolic issue) - that you need thyroid meds to raise metobolic..

this is a catch 22 - do you see?

Then no period - low estrodiol ( not estrogen/ this would be a little high) + as you say here :  ( and I am not shouting with the capitol letters - just letting you see my imput where my thoughts would be with what you are saying is happening OK? ) -

" I was having other hormone issues, sugar cravings,( THIS IS MOST LIKELY INSULIN ISSUES)  bad breakouts ( HIGH TESTOSTERONE/ LOW PROGESTERONE) on my neck, my attitude was awful (LOW PROGESTERONE AND HIGH ESTROGEN) I could become very angry at the drop of a button, my periods were sporadic.

- so you see? - when one thing is being treated and not correctly being the whole solving of what you need other things will stir up and become issues too... I can't say for sure what went wrong for you first - but it look like your 15 year treatment you had was on one thing and the others were most likely crying out too - undiagnoised and left to fend alone. So now - it just a fact of rebuilding the whole system.

- keep in mind we only touched here on hormone panels... Most likely the endocrine system was lacking a nutrient or vitamin - or mineral. Mosy likely several - so when the body is running on LESS than what it needs to stay strong - then things will rear up eventually... another spiral effect of our complex body. And don't forget the Big-Bad word ... STRESS... throw that into the mix - ( in many forms) and that will cause these levels to go bonkers - adding in that you were most likely NOT feeding yourself right with pure wholesome foods and supplements/ minerals a while ago. We ALL are guilty of this when we wer younger to some degree. Many of us - when younger - just plugged along eating and doing what we wanted. This is a huge other topic that I am sure you know.

The whole paragraph above you write on your symptoms - I would read on iodine consumption too and consider asking your NP - for a loading test on that too. Don't believe all the theories of "we get enough of that in our American diet>" that's hogwash ( no pun intended) and you are seeing cancer on this rise in many forms that should get linked to this vital mineral not available anymore on what we need.Iodine is directly linked to our whole endocrine system - and not just thyroid.  Why I bring this up to you is your fact of fibroids and cysts found.. YOUR lacking something and you have been for sometime to grow them.  and reading the iodine information out there may send off a lightbulb to you on why all this started. Your NP knows all this..bring it up.

Last - the NP propbably is looking at glucose and celiac because that's what they do... Due to many food sources available - our diets have changed then what they were - because of all the bad in "fast" eating.. all of us - no matter what condition need to pay attention to our diets and get these bugs out of our bodies... Simply your NP will put you on a diet ( life long) to starve these bugs out of you so the body can run pure again to the best of its ability. and... it is a good possibility many of your issues that are off - could resolve with changing certain things too.





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734073 tn?1278896325
There is nothing wrong with taking Cytomel (of course at a much lower dose) in addition to Synthroid or another t4 only synthetic medication, if you are not able to get the t3 up in the range on t4 alone (conversion issue). If you go with desiccated again though, if you are taking enough, then you will get plenty of t3 with it. The issue with desiccated is that sometimes additional t4 is needed as it tends to be a little lower in the reference ranges on desiccated, so you can add a small amount of t4 synthetic to your desiccated (as Stella was saying) if needed to get the t4 a little higher if you are not getting relief of symptoms and the doctor feels like the t4 is still too low after looking at labs when you are on the optimum dose of desiccated alone. However, most people do fine on either treatment alone (desiccated by itself or Synthroid by itself) if your meds are adequately dosed. Since you were more than likely underdosed on your prior treatments (no labs to know for sure, going by symptoms and how you felt when you increased your med on your own (don't do that) ) You could very well be one of the masses that can get better with one treatment  on it's own if you are taking enough, without taking too much! Thus the reason for taking it slowly and testing labs frequently and demanding copies of those labs. In America, the doctors must present a copy by law when requested by the patient. A good doctor who works with the patient should not even have to be asked, they should give you a copy automatically. I mean what's the big secret- it's your blood and your body and your results! Since your body is liking the t3 cytomel though, maybe you should take the Synthroid, Cytomel route??? It's up to you and your doctor. Laura (she greeted you when you first came to med help) is on these two meds together. She could tell you about her dosing and give advise here. I do know that the amount of Cytomel that you would suppliment the Synthroid with would need to be reduced greatly and split into 2 or 3 doses as t3 burns off quickly where t4 stays more constant in the blood and converts into t3 as needed. Lots of options for you to be considering before your Tue. dr. apt. I hope we've helped and not overwhelmed you too terribly much. There is a huge learning curve with all this mess, however when you finally understand it the light bulb will just come on!!! It's such a balancing act with these meds and these ranges.Your (and your doctors) job is to find the bulls eye and hit it, so that you can once again have quality of life!Key words: Optimal and Consistent!
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1222861 tn?1267287188
Oh I left you a post but I dont' think I was signed in properly cause I don't see it here.  Thank you for explaining the whole grain thing.  I totally get it now.  This is obviously why I was not doing well on the once a day after 200 T4 and changing to 1 125 Natural Dessicated tablet once a day.   I am interested to see what Stella has to say too after she realizes those January labs she saw were me on nothing.  Just so she doesn't think I am going to OD on the T3 only I am now on.  I do realize this is not the optimum thing to be on but I do really feel better compared to last week - Huge improvement.  And I will get it all fixed up on Tuesday.  Hopefully I will be go on a Combo treatment like was initially suggested.  Knowledge is power.  I wish I knew what I know now when I went into the clinic.  We really expect Dr.s to know more - thats why these boards are so important , sharing information is key.  I absolutely panicked when they looked at my labs and said lets give you some Synthroid.  And I suppose I was so adamant about what I had already taken to no avail that when I said, No what about Cytomel thats a T3 T4 and thats what I was told I needed they just simply agreed with me. Urgh.  It will all work out. Keep ya posted.

So glad your little one has you and she is on the road to recovery.  Until this actually happened to me - I honestly thought my mom and my sister who were so overweight with thyroid issues were simply eating incorrectly and lazy.  Sad huh.   Living and Learning everyday!  Cheers Connie      
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734073 tn?1278896325
Just saw your post----so 1 grain is 1 tablet of desiccated hormone. However, the mg can be slightly different per grain depending on the brand. For ex: Armour Thyroid is 60mg per tablet (1 grain) but Nature-Throid is 65 mg per tablet (1 grain). Erfa 1 grain is ? mg per grain (Stella will know this). So if you were on 2 grains of NT it was 130 mg. My daughter is 3 grains which is 195 mg. Splitting your dose is a good idea. She takes 1 grain at 7:00am, 1 grain at 11:00, and 1 grain at 3:00. She is doing great!
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734073 tn?1278896325
Now I can finish my post- So anyway, 3 grains of N.T. is equal to 190 mg because it is 65 mg per grain. So if you were on 200 mcg. of t4 and followed what we did you would be on like 6 grains per day. That is way too much in  my opinion and I would not recommend taking that much even as an adult without a thyroid gland. You have a gland that is producing very little thyroid hormone,correct? Yet it is probably producing some, so keep that in mind when thinking about dosage. Have you ever had antibodies tested to check for Hashimotos or Graves?  Might be a good idea to do so. So you know that 2 grains of Naturethroid (130 mg) was definitly not cutting it, so start there or maybe a 1/2 a grain higher and slowly work your way up every few weeks testing blood at 4 weeks maybe when you are at 2 &1/2 or 3 grains. See where you are at with the freet3 and freet4. If they are not higher in the range and the TSH lower, then tweek it another 1/4 or 1/2 a grain. Wait a few weeks, paying close attention to the elimination of symptoms, and tweek it up another 1/4 grain if needed. Check lab at 4 more weeks and see where you're at. This whole process could take two to three months, but if taken slowly under the direction of a good doctor who works with you for symptom relief, you will get there.Again, many people feel better when the T3 and T4 get higher in the normal range (above mid point) with the TSH around 1 or even close to 0 at the very bottom of normal range. However, it is an "individual" thing, so you could be different as some people are. So, you've been given alot of opinions on this thread, now it is up to you to make a good plan with a good doctor, and start ASAP working in a consistent direction.Remembering the key words CONSISTENT and OPTIMAL! You can get this done, so get with the good doctor and get to it!!!
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1222861 tn?1267287188
Sorry to be so stupid Annie but I dont' understand the whole "grain thing"....Guess I should go google it or something.      2 grains is 120mcg?  So that is basically what I was taking and not feeling good so it is possible I was undermediated which is why I felt so awful?  And perhaps I should have been splitting my doseages not taking it once a day, same time everyday like I was.   I was always very careful to take them same time everyday, empty stomach, and make sure no fluoride or calcium or iron was put in my body for at least 3hrs after I took my meds so nothing could interfere with them working.  

I know it would really help if I knew what my labs were before but I just don't have that information.  My dr. did not check that often either - only when I felt crummy would he ever do them again.   So I just have these new labs that I have paid for to go by, I feel like I am starting from square one all over again!  *But Important to note, these new labs are me on no medication at all.   I must say since I started the Cytomel I am feeling much better than I was this time last week.    
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734073 tn?1278896325
My daughter was on 100mcg. of t4 Synthroid / then switched over to Armour slowly until we reached 2 full grains (120 mg) per day divided? Then switched over to Nature-Throid which we started at 2 grains, but increased twice by 1/2 a grain each time  until she was at  3 total grains divided by 3 doses at 4 hour intervals. She weighs 120 lbs now,  and has no thyroid gland. This is working great for her bloodwise and symptom wise.
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1222861 tn?1267287188
Hi Stella - I was just rereading your post...there is so much info in there.

I was on Eltroxin T4 200mcgs for a long time.  I felt great on it until early last year.  So I finally talked my Dr. into prescribing "Natural Thryoid"  My Dr., knowing I knew best how I felt finally gave it to me and I was so happy.  So I went to the pharmacist to fill my new script and when the pharamacist saw the prescription he said, we don't have this we will have to order it, plus you can't take the same amount as you were taking, you will have to reduce it, it uptakes differently.  He said I am going to call your Dr. and have the amount changed.  So I said fine, no rush I am changing to this medication I've waited a long time to take it a few more days won't hurt, call me when you get it.   I have never been the same since.   So knowing I was on 200 T4 med and not feeling great and then switched to a natural dessicated 125 and didn't feel great, what amount of meds would you recommend I should take?  Thanks!  C
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1222861 tn?1267287188
Hi Stella -  

Thanks for looking into my labs for me.  You should know that I have been on NO meds at all since December 1st, 2009.  

I made it my goal to get well in 2010 and thats why I hired this Naturopath.  I just wanted to start fresh again. Unfotunately, It took some time to get in to see her.  So when that bloodwork was taken Jan 23 2010 thats all me on NO medication.  So right now at this moment, I am only taking Cytomel T3 25mcg 2x a day.  So do not worry that I am on alot of meds.  By the time I received those lab results on Feb 19th, I could barely move a muscle I was cramping so badly, getting dressed was becoming very difficult and I was just an emotional wreck to boot all I could do was cry from pain and depression.    I don't think they are going to hurt me for a few days.  I actually feel a little better.  I am no longer constipated, cold, foggy or depressed and I am sleeping well for the first time in months.  You have no idea how much better that makes me feel!  

I stopped the Naturthroid 125 back in Dec because I felt horrid, suddenly I put on 20lbs almost overnight and I hadn't had my period in Oct OR Nov.   Since I felt my meds were not working at all and hadn't in some time I didn't think it would hurt to stop.  I know this is totally wrong thinking.  It had felt like it had been over a year since my meds had worked at all.  My Doctor was trying to help by sending me to specialists but they were no help either.   As soon as I went off the meds, I got my period.  So I have had a normal cycle again ever since which is good news.   Like most Thyroid sufferers, I do have some other health issues.  For example, last year after an Ultrasound, I was also diagnosed with a polyp on my cervix and fibroid tumours on the outside wall of my uterous.  My Dr. sent me to a gyno specialist and his exact words to me were, I was not 20 any more I was probably peri menopausal and to get over myself.   This did not please me at all.  But what could I do.  I was further told my condition was most likely caused by excessive estrogen and because I was so old, my estrogen levels should be dropping on their own so there was no need to do anything further about it.  I was having other hormone issues, sugar cravings, bad breakouts on my neck, my attitude was awful I could become very angry at the drop of a button, my periods were sporadic.  Which was why I sought help in the first place. But I was told I did not need any hormone therapy.  This was in August last year.  So you see after 15yrs of battle by December I was simply fed up.   Plus I never see any of my test results I have to rely on the Dr. to tell me and I don't feel like I am seeing the whole picture.  In fact, I would not even know about the polyp or the fibroid tumours of the Untrasound Technician had not told me herself.  I have also been treated for Cervical Cancer about 15yrs ago just before I was diagnosed Hypothyroid.   But I still have everything....nothing was ever removed except for the cancer cells.  I am 44, married, no kids.  

My new naturopath ordered a Saliva Adrenal/Cortisol test on me as well.  And she is checking for glucose, gluten, & lactose intolerances too.  We will review those results on March 2.  I am also presently in the middle of doing a Female Hormone Saliva Test over 28days.  Those results will go to the Lab Mar 15th.  

I know not to mess with my medications, I did the one time and quite honestly, that was the best thing I ever did, it was the only time I ever felt and looked great thru this whole thing.  I was able to maintain a healthy weight for about 4yrs after that.  Then last year I totally fell apart again.  Many tests were run but nothing was changed.  

Unfortunately I have gotten off to a bit of a bad start with the Naturopath with them trying to move appts further ahead on me, then losing my test results, but I have paid for all these tests and I will follow this thru even if I have to take all these results to someone else.  I am really trying to get a full picture of my health and get better at my own expense because it is so important to me.    

I really appreciate you taking the time to look at my results.  Warmest regards,  Connie    
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393685 tn?1425812522
...... maybe this as I thought too... staying on the T3/T4 combo med as prescribed... (the 125mgs NT) and getting a T4 med in addition - somewhere around the .25 or .50 mcg would be better to call that clinic on and get ASAP w/ this clinic then just doing the desiccated alone... and upping that....

That sounds better to me to call and suggest with this clinic until the doctor is back on Tuesday right?

either - way - taboo on the T3 ALONE - this is not for you at all.
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393685 tn?1425812522
Holy Cow - I can see why Annie contacted me... and may I say Connie - everyone here that posted on this is dead right... I can only support their thought and say you should not be on T3 Cytomel alone... Here are a few thoughts I have.. Let's repost your labs below.

Yes - it said my TSH range should be 0.4 to 2.50    Mine 66.00
                   my Free T3 1.8 to 4.20                                1.50
                   my Free T4 0.9 to 1.80 and                          <0.4
                   my RT3 9.0 to 35.0                                      <9.0

I might have missed it but I am not sure exactly what med you were on when these labs were taken with what med? Can I assume this was tested when you were on the 125 Naturethroid?

and that's odd by the way - you are in Canada - so really the proper treatment ( which is GREAT desiccated T3/T4 combo canadian med would be ERFA thyroid!)  Why are you on an American desiccated thyroid product ( Naturethroid) when you have superior thyroid in Canada?

goolaara? - that T3 is bottoming out on her on top of the T4 - In my thought she really was on the right track with the combo med - only if the 200mcg T4 was the script the 125 mg NT was WAY low and then to be lowered even yet due to an "uptake" ( whatever that is coming from) regardless dropping her lower in meds would bottom her out more. I don't think she has any RT3 issues at all either. This treatment of T3 meds only on her based off these labs is outrageous!! - I have a thought for you on that too Connie -  that will come later here.

Connie - to a degree I have to agree with your doctor on the huge amount of T4 you were on as 200mcg.. that is high and yes in some cases - heart issue could be a worry - BUT and a BID BUT - if you aren't tested with the right labs to determine where your conversion is then it virtually impossible to really now what you need in - and what's coming out of anything. Some people CAN handle that 200mcg and do fine.. and then some can't - most can't even with no thyroid functioning at all ... ( surgery - or ablation or just quit I suppose too.) Weight factors do play roles in dosages here to some degree. I feel you certainly would ahve to be HUGE to even metobolize that amount of T4 and feel well. You say = "I had upped my meds a long time ago from 100 to 200 behind his back and I had excellent results but then it all kind of petered out." and honey - that is WAY common for many when T4 is not enough, but you upping a double dose was not right either and you really put yourself at risk... Don't do that again OK? :) The vet's therapy is good. sorry but the vet knows thyroid better than it seems your T4 doctor did... Right now I would stick to the Naturepath's advice and if you have your combo meds still at hand do this..

Stop that Cytomel. the sooner the better and go back on the Naturethroid as you were prescribed tomorrow with your doctors treatment... Take the 125mgs as you were told -  Now you see the doctor next week right?? Tell me that as confirmation first before I go further in thought.

I hate to be a devil's advocant here on you all and on the staying with the T3 until her appointment - BUT HER doctor did NOT prescribe this treatment. A bunch of walk in clinic doctors did ( and said IT was a T3/T4 combo originally when prescribed- which we all know it's NOT) - they didn't pull their own tests to determine anything either - so really NO one knows where she was really at at all since those late January labs she posted with her Naturepath doctor prescribing the T3/T4 combo med...

I believe IF the Naturepath is a GOOD damn doctor and seeing those results based of that prescibed LOW dose of NT - he would immediately of raised that med ( especially with her bottomed out T4 lab) and probably - if a wise doctor - instruct her to increase every 2 weeks with desiccated as it is  intended by 1/4 grains - retest in 4 weeks and keep attempting until she stabilized in symptoms and Free T testing.

This Connie - is the most horrific story I have ever heard with abuse and ignorance as those clinic doctors were with you. I am appauld at their tactic and it's damn lucky your heart is able to take 50 ( and READ that AGAIN  .50!!! mcg) - DEAR LORD-  T3 medication - WITH knowing you were already on a T3/T4 combo natural medication...
STUPID... is the only word for this treatment and I wouldn't pay a dime for what you got at that clinic ever - EVER - forever!

If you "really" really feel you would not be able to just return to the 125mgs as you were told - until Tuesday.. - then I suggest increasing that to 155mgs and no more until you test w/ doctor Tuesday. Logically you could handle that since you were on a huge T3 amount - and you can call that "clinic" to ask them about this... I am SURE they will agree to upping T3/T4 and eliminating the T3 all together . I can only hope!

Who knows where you are at now T3 wise.... you have no labs since starting this... so better safe than sorry.... T3 is very short lived - hopefully you have standard T3 and NOT time release.... so if it's standard then it will expel out within 8 hrs... after its gone your NT will pick up the slack - but seriously with the trend of awful treatment you seem to write about - this will take some work to put you back together right.

Pray for adrenals being strong here all - this could add in even more troubles if they are weak too.

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734073 tn?1278896325
It's just a process of elimination and tweeking that we must all go through. There is no reason for people with thyroid issues to have to accept feeling poorly for the rest of their lives. Don't forget to get the book on Amazon.com- Overcoming Thyroid Disorders by Dr. David Brownstein. I think it was about $18.00. It was recommended by my pharmacist. He considers him as one of the "top authorities on thyroid". It was an easy read, and right on! I love my pharmacist. Without him, I would still be wandering in the dark while my daughter got sicker and sicker! Having a direction and a plan to get there, makes all the difference. I hope you are enjoying Med Help. The people I have met here on this forum are top notch and never condescending or lecturing. Many here have helped me in the past, so I try to give back as my understanding grows. It's a journey we are all on together. So why not lend a hand when you can. I could sense your frustration on the other forum, and have too felt this when I am rarely on there. Someone else I know was also commenting to me not to long ago about how rude that particular moderater was on that forum site. When we are feeling bad and are in need of help, we don't need to be fed a bunch of politically correct medical BS. Many of us get enough of that with our Endos. already! That's what I love about this site- members just "cut to the chase" and are really concerned about helping you figure out your particular issue so that you can get going in a direction that will lead to better health and understanding. I am waiting on a phone call from my friend Stella. She may chime in later with advice. She is absolutely the greatest!
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Avatar universal
I couldn't agree with both of you more...it's not worth self-medicating until next Tuesday.  The T3 will help you to feel better...I doubt it's a placebo effect.  T3, by itself, is just a bit difficult to manage since you have to split the dose and take it several times a day, and there are still apt to be peaks and valleys due to it's short life in your body. But, it does work much faster than T4 since you don't have to build up levels in your body.  It should make you feel much better until your appointment. Baby steps will get you there..sometimes those giant steps just take you right off the end of the earth...and that ain't pretty.  Best of luck when you see your doctor.
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1222861 tn?1267287188
K...Annie,  yes you're right I don't have long to wait...just til Tuesday...and then we can straighten this all out.  There is no point playing around with the meds any further at this point....I was just a little worried by the comments that I shouldn't be on a T3 treatment only.   I can see how the Naturthroid with the T1, 2, 3, & 4 could put me over the edge with the level Cytomel I'm already taking.  And like you said I do seem to feel a bit better, a bit brighter a little more alert, but I was feeling so badly that this could simply be a placebo effect.   The pharmacy was actually much more helpful than the Clinic was when I was there.  They actually took notice that the new medication had different levels than what I was usualy prescribed and they had the prescription changed from once a day to two times a day so my prescription would last longer and my excess medical insurer would not think I was misuing my medication too.  Which was very good of them.  Thanks for the great advise.  I will continue to build my health portfolio and with each lab done I will have a better picture of where I am.  Its just so hard to take baby steps after all these years.   lol Connie      
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734073 tn?1278896325
That's what it's all about Annamae! Best wishes to you too!
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734073 tn?1278896325
I think I'd wait to see the doctor next week before adding any meds to the mix on my own.. If you are having some improvements with the t3, then maybe this is a sign that this is what you've been lacking, or needing more of. When was the last t4 pill and was it Synthetic. It will stay in your system for a while as it has a longer half life. If Naturethroid was the last med you were on before this, it has a shorter half life as it is also t3 which burns off quicker. Since you will see your doctor in a week, I think I'd hold off adding in any meds on your own. I don't know alot about Cytomel, however, that seems like a pretty hefty dose (what did you say it was?) And since Nature-Throid has t3 in also, that could put you over the limit! T3 is pretty potent stuff, and I do know it is usually added in slowly and the t4 med is usually decreased some when the Cytomel is added. So hang in there and wait on your doctor okay. You could call the pharmacy and talk to them about it and make sure they read the script correctly though. That's great that you already keep a journal. Keep it up and now you can begin adding your lab slips to it. When you can get a good visual of how those labs and symptoms or lack there of, correlate, that is when you will begin to realize what your optimal range and med and dosage should be. It takes time and persistence, but it will pay off.
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Avatar universal
wow i have learned so much here  
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1222861 tn?1267287188
Oh and I do keep a Health & Wellness calendar.  You're right it is a great thing to have I find it really uselful in monitoring my symptoms. I've also found when it's time to go to the Dr's office I am armed with information that I can't forget to tell them because I can simply show them.  Best, Connie
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1222861 tn?1267287188
Thanks you guys you are amazing.  So knowledgeable.   As this is the first time I have seen my lab results I am such a newbie at this but I will get up to speed!   For some reason my regular dr. seemed to think that 200 was a super high amount of T4 to be taking and that anything more and I could have a heart attack.  So he would not let me have anymore.  I had upped my meds a long time ago from 100 to 200 behind his back and I had excellent results but then it all kind of petered out.  I had promised not to do that again and to trust him.  This is part of the reason I hired a new Dr at my own expense to run tests I could actually see for myself as I know I am not feeling right.

I have a friend who's dog is Hypothyroid and was taking the exact same medication as me.  Her Vet keeps on upping her dogs doseage because he says he becomes immune to it and higher levels are needed.   The dog also takes it several times a day unlike me who was taking mine once a day.  It seems to work great for her dog who lost 60lbs and certainly has had me questioning if I needed a higher doseage myself.  The vet was also factoring in the dogs weight when deciding correct doseage necessary. *Her dog is a Bull Mastif so he is really a big animal which is how he had a weight loss of 60lbs...he was well over 200lbs.    

I have some Naturthroid left (125)  I think it is from ERFA too. Maybe a weeks worth.  Perhaps I will add it to the Cytomel I am now taking until I get in to see my new dr next week and get the proper doseages.   So you do not think 125 is a high doseage then?   Perhaps this was my problem all along.

I can say since I started the Cytomel 4 days ago, I am sleeping better.  I still have muscle cramps just not for as long or as often, my body corp temperature seems to be rising I am not freezing all the time and my inner ears that have been so itchy for about 2yrs feel normal.  
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734073 tn?1278896325
I too noticed that her reverse t3 looked fine, so no need to go with a t3 only drug here. If it was a mistake with the pharmacy thinking that Cytomel was a t3/t4 med, maybe she should call them and get the actual t3/t4 med. that  the doctor prescribed. Unless the doctor does not know, and thinks that Cytomel is t3 and t4. Surely this is not the case!  
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734073 tn?1278896325
My daughter was on 100 mcg. of Synthroid last year. At that time she weighed about 105 lbs. Her t4 was higher at this dose, however, her t3 was low (conversion issue). I switched her to Armour using the conversion table (2 grains) This was good for her blood wise and symptom wise for 3 or 4 months. Then we refilled and got the new reformulated Armour with more cellulose and less dexstrose. She did not do well with this, and within two weeks severe joint pain and fatigue set in with a drastic drop in t4 and a lower t3. So I then switchwed her to Nature-Throid also 2 grains, and she just diddnt come out of it well on that dose , so 3 weeks later I upped her to 2 &1/2 grains, waited a few weeks and ran labs. Better, but still not feeling the best and labs had room  for improvement. I knew how  good she was feeling, and where her labs needed to be to get there once again, based on her results on the "good" (before reformulation) Armour. So, we raised her another 1/2 a grain (3 grains total) and divide it by 3 doses spaced by 4 hour intervals. (1 grain at 7:00 am, 1 grain at 11:00 am and 1 grain at 3:00 pm) It took several months, but the joint and muscle pain went away and the fatigue vanished and her labs got back to high normal on T3 with her freet4 slightly above mid range (a little below freet4) and her TSH supressed to well under 1. She is not hyper in anyway, and her hypo. symptoms are a thing of the past! Keep in mind, if you have no gland or little or no thyroid function,that it does not take long for these severe hypo. symptoms to get a grip on your body that won't let go until you get the adequate amount of throid hormone that is available to the cells of the body. It can effect EVERYTHING! It's like running a car with 1/2 the oil. Not good on the old engine! So, more then likely, it was not the meds that were your issue, it was probably the amount (under- dosed) And since you wer never given copies of your labs before now, and since doctors are netorious for ignoring symptoms as long as you are somewhere in the "NORMAL" range, and since we know that these ranges are far to broad and must be specific for each persons unique needs (Optimal Range for me to be symptom free is the goal ....not Normal) So my guess, is that you needed slightly more Nature-Throid as my daughter did, and that before that, your dose of eltroxin was low, and before that the Synthroid! At least you have a doctor now that will give you copies of youir labs, so that will help. Maybe the t3 alone will help some, but I don't think that is your answer, (but see how you feel?) Since I have no "brain fog" and can think this through, I see your options as either getting back on the Naturethroid which has t3 and t4 in it (plus t2, t1, calcitonan and selinium) at a slightly higher divided dose. OR, get back on a synthetic t4 at a slighlly higher dose and wait and see if you need the t3 added after 6 to 8 weeks judging by the lab work (range of freet3 and freet4 and TSH) and elimination of symptoms. OR, you can take a slightly lower dose of t4 and add in the t3 with cytomel at a lower dose then you are on now divided 2 or 3 times per day. If you decide to keep with the desiccated, and Nature-Throid is not cutting it at a slightly higher dose, then, you can always try ERFA thyroid made there in Canada. Many here in the U.S. are on it now and doing well. They say it is much like the OLD "goood" Armour (Before reformulation). Of course you will need to discuss these options with your doctor and make a new plan. Remember, whatever is decided, results take time. Get a journal, and record your symptoms, basal body temp. etc. and get copies of those labs.You should see that TSH going down down down and the freet4 and freet3 getting higher in the normal range, and symptoms should gradually begin to release their grip. OPTIMAL & Consistency are your key words!
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