Aa
Joint and muscle pain.
I had part of my thyroid removed this past April. I was not put on nay medication at that time. They checked my levels in June and said they were good so I didn't need meds. I went to the Dr. the first of Novenber for Hip pain. I had heard that muscle and joint pain can come frome hypothyroid so I asked them to do more bloodwork. I was Hypothyroid according to the bloodwork so they started me on Synthroid. I had bloodwork done last week and they said it was normal and to just stay on my current dosage. I have been to 2 orthopedics since November for my hip musce and joint apin and it is no better. In fact it is getting worse and I take 800 mg of Ibuprophen 2 times a day for it and have been going to physical therapy 2 times a week for a month. I had a bone scan done yesterday and do not know the results. Could this be due to my thyroid condition?
I take a mutivitamin and glucosamine daily but I will try to add some more calcium I will check the amount of magnesium in the multivitamin when I get home today and see how much is in there. I know I really need to take calcium because I had my ovaries removed 4 years ago. Thanks for the advise.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I've had excellent results taking calcium (1200 mg/day - 2 doses of 600 mg ea) and magnesium (400 mg/day). I take the citrate form of each of these as they seem to be more readily absorbed. I also make sure that I get them in capsule form rather than tablet for the same reason.
Make sure that you separate your thyroid med from any supplements by at least 4 hours as supplements can prevent proper absorption of the thyroid med.
I would also recommend that you have a current DEXA scan done to check for bone loss due to osteopenia/osteoporosis. I have had osteopenia for about 7-8 years and it was getting progressively worse, but since beginning my calcium and magnesium, I have actually rebuilt some of the lost bone.
Exercise is also recommended if you can tolerate it. It doesn't have to be strenuous, even walking is helpful.
Other than that, as the others have said, once your thyroid levels come into balance, hopefully, the pain will be greatly reduced.
Make sure that you separate your thyroid med from any supplements by at least 4 hours as supplements can prevent proper absorption of the thyroid med.
I would also recommend that you have a current DEXA scan done to check for bone loss due to osteopenia/osteoporosis. I have had osteopenia for about 7-8 years and it was getting progressively worse, but since beginning my calcium and magnesium, I have actually rebuilt some of the lost bone.
Exercise is also recommended if you can tolerate it. It doesn't have to be strenuous, even walking is helpful.
Other than that, as the others have said, once your thyroid levels come into balance, hopefully, the pain will be greatly reduced.
I will try to do what you have suggested. I really appreciate all of your advise. I am going to tell the Dr. this too on Friday. I hope he listens.
Less Ibuprephen -good.
Still if you experience a lot of muscle pain, do not hesitate to research the other things I suggested. It is all proven to work and is all over the web, you dont see it here since this is the thyroid forum. Sometimes the muscle damaged from being prolonged hypo takes forever to heal and in some cases never completely resolves if any slight permanent damage occurred during this time of hypo induced muscle weakness. Sometimes (and in my case) even corrected proper thyroid meds and dosing alone were not enough.
Still if you experience a lot of muscle pain, do not hesitate to research the other things I suggested. It is all proven to work and is all over the web, you dont see it here since this is the thyroid forum. Sometimes the muscle damaged from being prolonged hypo takes forever to heal and in some cases never completely resolves if any slight permanent damage occurred during this time of hypo induced muscle weakness. Sometimes (and in my case) even corrected proper thyroid meds and dosing alone were not enough.
I did go off the Ibuprophen because I was actually feeling worse while I was on it. I have just been taking 2 Tylenol for the pain and it helps some. I really hate taking any meds anyway.
"800 mg of Ibuprophen 2 times a day"
- that a lot of NSAID's per day, hard on the stomach, can cause long term problems.
Until you get your thyroid figured out: You might look into adding some natural ant-inflammatory supplements like: Papaya, Bromeline, Tumeric tablets.
Even decreasing body PH by going up the scale into alkaline will decrease inflammation. This may seem 'off the wall' to some people not knowledgeable about what they eat, but it can work. We are what we eat, and the modern Western diet promotes body inflammation from a too acidic (low PH) diet. Test this with PH saliva test paper.
Anyone with major muscle pain also most likely developed muscle trigger points in the process and are not aware of this. PT is not as effective unless these trigger points are found and removed by applying moderate to heavy localized pressure for 20 seconds long several times per session, per day.
You can google all the above, it all works. This and T3 (i need it), was part of my plan, it all worked together very well. OTC pain meds used very little now, only after heavy physical activity now and then.
- that a lot of NSAID's per day, hard on the stomach, can cause long term problems.
Until you get your thyroid figured out: You might look into adding some natural ant-inflammatory supplements like: Papaya, Bromeline, Tumeric tablets.
Even decreasing body PH by going up the scale into alkaline will decrease inflammation. This may seem 'off the wall' to some people not knowledgeable about what they eat, but it can work. We are what we eat, and the modern Western diet promotes body inflammation from a too acidic (low PH) diet. Test this with PH saliva test paper.
Anyone with major muscle pain also most likely developed muscle trigger points in the process and are not aware of this. PT is not as effective unless these trigger points are found and removed by applying moderate to heavy localized pressure for 20 seconds long several times per session, per day.
You can google all the above, it all works. This and T3 (i need it), was part of my plan, it all worked together very well. OTC pain meds used very little now, only after heavy physical activity now and then.
Thank you to both of you for your answers. Lazymoose, I do have other hypo symptoms such as wight gain, cold all the time, thinning hair, lack of energy, very forgetful and feel like my mind is in a fog a lot of the time. I think the forgetfulness bothers me the most.
Well, in the time being, do you have any other hypo symptoms. The list is long as you might know, and varies greatly among individuals.
Magnesium along with D that gimel noted can be deficient in people prone to muscle aches.
If you really are hypo, and T4 doesn't relieve muscle pain after a certain amount of time, there are other steps to help. At first, Its a waiting game.
Orthos are good with the skeletal structure - thats what they do. And you need to know if that is the cause to move forward on to other possible causes. There are no special 'muscle doctors', can be challenging for some to relieve muscle pain, if the cause is not structure in nature. I have had some great success with serious muscle pain after many years of just 'dealing' with it. Between doctors, chiros, and PT's, there is a certain order that will make a difference in addition to free things you can learn at home. But, unless you treat the thyroid properly, the pain can possibly remain, with some other hypo symptoms as well. And even with proper thyroid treatment some severe muscle pain cases just need a little more help than others. Like a jump start.
Magnesium along with D that gimel noted can be deficient in people prone to muscle aches.
If you really are hypo, and T4 doesn't relieve muscle pain after a certain amount of time, there are other steps to help. At first, Its a waiting game.
Orthos are good with the skeletal structure - thats what they do. And you need to know if that is the cause to move forward on to other possible causes. There are no special 'muscle doctors', can be challenging for some to relieve muscle pain, if the cause is not structure in nature. I have had some great success with serious muscle pain after many years of just 'dealing' with it. Between doctors, chiros, and PT's, there is a certain order that will make a difference in addition to free things you can learn at home. But, unless you treat the thyroid properly, the pain can possibly remain, with some other hypo symptoms as well. And even with proper thyroid treatment some severe muscle pain cases just need a little more help than others. Like a jump start.
Just to keep you from possibly being disappointed, I wanted to point out that the title Endo doesn't mean that he is a good thyroid doctor, so just realize that you may have to keep looking for a good thyroid doctor. Many Endos specialize in diabetes, and do very little with thyroid patients. Others are so rigid in their "Immaculate TSH Belief" that they will not consider treating a patient for symptoms, by adjusting FT3 and FT4 levels. Some will test for FT4, but few want to test for FT3, on the belief that if FT4 is okay, that FT3 will correlate. This is frequently not the case, because some patients do not convert T4 to T3 adequately. With the importance of FT3, why not test and be sure? Yet some Endos refuse to test for FT3.
In preparation for your appt., I think you might find some value to this old email that I have sent to the Amer. Thyroid Assn. twice, without reply, of course. I would take a copy of it to the appt. and if the Endo doesn't want to do the testing and treat your symptoms, then give the copy to him and gently try and get him to change his mind.
After having gone through years of not being treated for hypothyroidism, because my TSH was 4.97 and thus "normal", I was very pleased to note that the AACE had finally recognized that the range was incorrectly determined. After removing some suspect hypo and hyper patients' data, and recalculating the range, they recommended it be lowered and narrowed to .3-3.0. Six years after this recommendation, why is it that most labs and doctors still do not recognize the change and still use the old range? Since doctors also over-rely on TSH as the gold standard for thyroid testing, multitudes of hypo patients are still being told they are "normal" and do not get treated. Is the ATA doing anything to encourage the medical community to change this practice? If so, why is it taking so long?
My second concern is that doctors predominantly rely on TSH in determining a patient's thyroid status. Why is this, since TSH is a pituitary hormone that is affected by so many variables, including even the time of day when tested? Why not promote more widespread use of the actual thyroid hormones that are biologically active (FT3 and FT4) and that largely regulate metabolism and many other body functions? From studies I have seen and much personal experience, TSH does not even correlate very well at all with hypo symptoms. The test that has been shown to correlate best with hypo symptoms is free T3. Yet there are very few doctors that order a FT3 test as a matter of course, and some that refuse to order one at all.
When FT3 and FT4 are tested, the ranges are so broad that patients with overt hypo symptoms will usually still fall in the lower end of the current range. As a result they are also told they are "normal" and receive no treatment. Why haven"t the reference ranges for FT3 and FT4 been corrected like TSH, to exclude suspect hypo patients? If this were done, these ranges would be raised and narrowed, comparable to the changes for the new range for TSH. I'm sure that some would say that the ranges for FT3 and FT4 are just reference ranges, that as you approach the lower end of the ranges, that the probability of being hypo goes up and that in those cases, doctors look further to determine if medication is advisable. I agree that this should be the case but I assure you it isn't. Labs and doctors interpret results within the reference range as "normal" and don't want to go any further. As a result of all the above misunderstanding and misapplication, millions of patients go untreated and remain miserable with their hypo symptoms.
Is the ATA doing anything to raise the awareness of these problems among the medical community so that we hypo patients can look forward to some positive changes? If you are not, then I cannot imagine any other organization that could do the work necessary to coordinate changing the awful mess that exists in the area of diagnosis and treatment of thyroid patients. Your response will be greatly appreciated
In preparation for your appt., I think you might find some value to this old email that I have sent to the Amer. Thyroid Assn. twice, without reply, of course. I would take a copy of it to the appt. and if the Endo doesn't want to do the testing and treat your symptoms, then give the copy to him and gently try and get him to change his mind.
After having gone through years of not being treated for hypothyroidism, because my TSH was 4.97 and thus "normal", I was very pleased to note that the AACE had finally recognized that the range was incorrectly determined. After removing some suspect hypo and hyper patients' data, and recalculating the range, they recommended it be lowered and narrowed to .3-3.0. Six years after this recommendation, why is it that most labs and doctors still do not recognize the change and still use the old range? Since doctors also over-rely on TSH as the gold standard for thyroid testing, multitudes of hypo patients are still being told they are "normal" and do not get treated. Is the ATA doing anything to encourage the medical community to change this practice? If so, why is it taking so long?
My second concern is that doctors predominantly rely on TSH in determining a patient's thyroid status. Why is this, since TSH is a pituitary hormone that is affected by so many variables, including even the time of day when tested? Why not promote more widespread use of the actual thyroid hormones that are biologically active (FT3 and FT4) and that largely regulate metabolism and many other body functions? From studies I have seen and much personal experience, TSH does not even correlate very well at all with hypo symptoms. The test that has been shown to correlate best with hypo symptoms is free T3. Yet there are very few doctors that order a FT3 test as a matter of course, and some that refuse to order one at all.
When FT3 and FT4 are tested, the ranges are so broad that patients with overt hypo symptoms will usually still fall in the lower end of the current range. As a result they are also told they are "normal" and receive no treatment. Why haven"t the reference ranges for FT3 and FT4 been corrected like TSH, to exclude suspect hypo patients? If this were done, these ranges would be raised and narrowed, comparable to the changes for the new range for TSH. I'm sure that some would say that the ranges for FT3 and FT4 are just reference ranges, that as you approach the lower end of the ranges, that the probability of being hypo goes up and that in those cases, doctors look further to determine if medication is advisable. I agree that this should be the case but I assure you it isn't. Labs and doctors interpret results within the reference range as "normal" and don't want to go any further. As a result of all the above misunderstanding and misapplication, millions of patients go untreated and remain miserable with their hypo symptoms.
Is the ATA doing anything to raise the awareness of these problems among the medical community so that we hypo patients can look forward to some positive changes? If you are not, then I cannot imagine any other organization that could do the work necessary to coordinate changing the awful mess that exists in the area of diagnosis and treatment of thyroid patients. Your response will be greatly appreciated
Thank you so much. I will do what you have said. I have got to do something because I feel horrible and I am getting worse every day. I hope he will listen. He is just my regular medical Dr. I have an appointment with an endo the 8th, and will tell him what you have said. thanks again.
TSH is inadequate as a thyroid diagnostic, by which I mean to diagnose and medicate a patient. TSH is a pituitary hormone that is affected by many variables. It also does not correlate very well at all with hypo symptoms. At best it is an indicator, to be considered along with the more important indicators, which are free T3 and free T4. Free T3 is four times as active as free T4, and FT3 correlates best with hypo symptoms.
In my opinion the most effective way to treat a thyroid patient is to test and adjust FT3 and FT4 levels with whatever type medication is required to alleviate symptoms, without being constrained by resultant TSH levels. Frequently this requires that FT3 is adjusted into the upper third of its range and FT4 is adjusted to at least the midpoint of its range.
I suggest that first you insist that they test for FT3 and FT4, along with TSH. Then you should discuss with your doctor that you would like to be treated for your symptoms, by adjusting FT3 and FT4 levels as required to alleviate those symptoms. If the doctor disagrees, you might as well start looking for a good thyroid doctor that will do so.
In my opinion the most effective way to treat a thyroid patient is to test and adjust FT3 and FT4 levels with whatever type medication is required to alleviate symptoms, without being constrained by resultant TSH levels. Frequently this requires that FT3 is adjusted into the upper third of its range and FT4 is adjusted to at least the midpoint of its range.
I suggest that first you insist that they test for FT3 and FT4, along with TSH. Then you should discuss with your doctor that you would like to be treated for your symptoms, by adjusting FT3 and FT4 levels as required to alleviate those symptoms. If the doctor disagrees, you might as well start looking for a good thyroid doctor that will do so.
I guess I should have said my first bloodwork in Novemaber was 5.92 when they said I was hypothyroid and then just 2 weeks ago it was 2.83. Thanks
My throid level was 2.83. My Vitamin D bloodwork was normal but don't know actual results. Thanks
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